When did this board get so many neo liberals 😬 Everyone deserves a living wage, I dont care if their art is the worst art of all time. We are here on earth to solve human problems. To solve for human joy.
I’ll take it a step further and say everyone deserves a universal basic income! That way artists can make art without worrying about AI sapping money from their livelihoods 🤷♀️
When did empathy become so rare?
bro you’re talking to a collection of people who are here because they hate something
are you talking about reddit
I hope so, I’d be awfully concerned if everyone here didn’t hate rape and murder.
Where in the hell did that even come from.
The amount of hyperbole is making me realize how much of reddit actually took over. Fuck tankies but holy shit, get an education.
fuck tech bros
Everyone may deserve a living wage, but if im awful at art there are probably more useful things I could be doing for the betterment of all.
Probably, but then again, if you enjoy making art then just do it. It doesn’t have to be beautiful, it doesn’t even have to be good, as long as it makes you happy it is worth doing.
That’s not the point: paying people for any random thing they decide to do doesn’t make sense and doesn’t work.
Then don’t pay for it. But if you are going to pay for it, isn’t it better to pay a real person that worked to create something over a corporation that automated the process?
If you want? You’re also free to pay for hand-kneaded bread at a traditional bakery from hand-harvested flour (damn harvesting machines taking the jobs of peasants!) You’re free to only listen to music in concerts rather than rely on cheap and automated reproductions (damn vinyls taking the jobs of bards!)
I think it’s weird to shame people for going with the cheaper, more efficient, industrial version.
Some jobs don’t call for art, they call for illustrations, and AI tools are perfectly adequate for that.Of course it’s terrible that artists are losing out on illustration jobs, but I don’t see how it is meaningfully different from any other kind of automation taking jobs and why we should shame its users. Artists being undervalued in market economies isn’t a new problem, and shaming users is at best a temporary and leaky band-aid on the situation.
People paying for AI art is a boogyman that is being overplayed to hide the fact that the vast majority of AI art is made by the person who wants it for themselves. This is a new artform that there are new artists whom enjoy using it
Asking a robot to make something for you (by tracing shit other people made) is not “being an artist” and never will be.
Lmao ok there grandpa. Enjoy being left behind while you create a version of reality that doesnt exist in order to explain why
It sounds more like you’re trying to convince people (and maybe yourself) of that than a statement of fact you’re sure about.
I just wonder how many of these people bitching about AI copyright are part of the pirating community.
I mean, I knew quite a few that would rip art from Pinterest for their dnd characters and games sooooo. I was the friend who by FAR commissioned artists the most for his characters, It’s probably close to 1k now I’ve spent on commissions overall. These people just hear “BUT ITS THEFT” and turn their brain off past that
And what of the copyright free FOSS solutions? AI is just a tool in the digital artist toolbox, blame the corporations, not the digital artists. The same argument was made about photoshop 25 years ago, did that stop people paying for traditional art?
Do you? Are you willing to pay 100 bucks for a hand crafted pendant or 25 for a similar item on amazon?
I feel like it doesnt work because few people have the most money to spend on luxuries like art.
Until we don’t have to work to live then no, you can’t just make art because. What is stifling creativity is being trapped in a system that doesn’t allow you to even have health care as a basic right. I don’t make any art most of the time because I cannot live off of that. You’re welcome to buy up things I make at prices high enough to pay my bills but you won’t.
You may still be able to better yourself or find a way to make money being mediocre or amateur regardless. But you have to decide to take a chance on yourself.
Well, so much for you people being democrats lol, might as well put on the Klan hood because that’s what they thought too
That is a very US centric comment.
More than 95% of the world are neither republican nor democrat.
Damn dude, you should enter the Olympics, that reach was gold medal tier
Unfortunately the world we live does not entitle you to make money from your passions.
entitlement is when i don’t like something
I fail to see how your plan is going to make the overlords more money. Can’t you accept life is only about securing profit for someone else? You’ve been fairly compensated for your efforts according to the standards written by the overlords. Be happy™
Everyone was so worried about “talkies” that they didn’t realize this place became infected with conservatives
Removed by mod
I how is supporting putin I’m any way an acceptable position? I’m all for giving the means of production to the people with AI but fuck Xi and fuck Putin.
Did you ever quit because someone else was better? Then you’re not an artist. You’re in it for business or attention. I don’t dance because someone’s gonna pay me or because I need to stand out. I dance because I like it.
Spoken like someone who doesn’t rely on that skill to eat. Well done.
And we arrive back at the root of the problem: Capitalism! Who would’ve thought.
AI is a tool, and not inherently evil or good. But the current trend, that it is used to undercut human artists (and other workers, let’s not pretend this is limited to artists anymore) is unequivocally bad.
Most people shop where the prices are best which contributes to the problem and has for a very long time. Capitalism just serves that human need.
So should we ban looms since people relied on hand weaving fabric to eat?
You’re going to put this poor AI generated loom worker out of his AI generated job!
OT faunfact: most worn fabrics are machine-knit and not woven, because knitting produces a stretchier fabric
TIL, neat!
I’d love to be able to dance and do art for fun! Wow that’d be awesome, but in the real world people have to make money to pay for their living.
Then it sounds like you’ve got something more important to bring up with your representatives than the art you don’t have time to make. Get a horse in the race before you start betting.
ais aren’t people
So?
no argument .__.
if only we were an actually intelligent species and not a barrel of monkeys
I found out who’s selling us the barrels:
Photography already killed art. It’s nowhere near as popular as it was before photography. It’s now becoming a time when commissioned works can be popularized as well. So art made by humans becomes even more niche.
Hey, I’m sorry for the roof thatchers and knife sharpeners out there, and what happened to their profession. The Appalachians and West Virginia is dirt poor because coal mining isn’t what it used to be.
Why do “artists” think they’re holy and should be protected?
Why do “artists” think they’re holy and should be protected?
Has anyone ever implied that it’s just artists? Automation putting people out of work has always been a major fear, and has been realized over and over again. It’s not “just artists,” it just so happens that art is the domino that is currently falling.
Oh my goodness, do I need to spell this out?
IT’S THE POST. The very post we’re commenting on is an example of how art is trying to be shielded from the advances of technology whereas coal miners knife sharpeners roof thatchers… everybody watched them starve and nobody cared.
They were clapping while the miners were sent into starvation. People were dying and we were clapping because an industry we didn’t like went away. It’s all because “Art Lovers” are rich and elitist that they want an outcry. Which of us has a collection of art, or even one piece? Nobody who thinks about paying bills I’ll bet.
Maybe it’s time we automate all the work away and realize that our individual existence doesn’t need to depend on our contributions to society (*based on availability, time of year, race, luck-of-birthplace, shareholder whims)
If art is dead, it’s because it wasn’t readily manufacturable enough for capital. Most things aren’t. Why do we continue to let them rule everything? It’s clearly not working.
…and as long as we’re dreaming, I’d like a pony.
If it was possible to automate all jobs, capitalism would’ve done it by now. Robots are always cheaper than human workers.
If it was possible to automate all jobs, capitalism would’ve done it by now.
Capitalism is the halfway point between Feudalism and Socialism, we’ve got another 4000 years on that social scale. Maybe don’t consider capitalism superman when it’s actively killing people.
“If man was supposed to fly we’d be doing it by now!” - Some moron in the past.
Nowhere did I say automation of all jobs was a good thing. The fact that Midjourney is making people who do what they’re passionate about for a living obsolete is proof enough of that.
My point was that if not even the most soulless, profit-driven bastards ever to walk planet earth can figure out how to save a buck by making a robot do jobs that we still underpay humans to do, it’s not because they haven’t tried, and it’s definitely not because they lack funding.
Haven’t yet. Time doesn’t end now. we didn’t have the car for 2.4 billion years before it was invented either.
You’re literally complaining about them not doing what they’re doing because you aren’t happy with the results yet.
You’re making a mistake there. Robots aren’t always cheaper. It’s not like someone invents a new robot and suddenly it’s everywhere because “robots are always cheaper”. Robots are cheaper where they are being used, because they wouldn’t be used otherwise.New robots aren’t as much invented as made feasible by advances in manufacturing methods.
Oh my goodness, do I need to spell this out?
Yes.
Context and subtext aren’t things people actually think about anymore these days. Also be sure to choose your words extremely carefully, because they all only have 1 definition now and it’s whatever the other person reading thinks it is and not what it says in a dictionary or what has been established by the majority of people for hundreds of years.
Also don’t be subtle, don’t use euphemisms, don’t be sarcastic, and never exaggerate or else you’ll be accused of “spreading misinformation.” Despite the fact that 90% of the interaction on the internet is still text, too many people joining in forums like this have absolutely zero reading comprehension skills.
They take a single line from your post and write up a huge post of their own just to argue with th- Wait… Fuck! Now I’m doing it!
mad
Normative reply to descriptive comment.
I’m not sure what you mean by that
It’s ok, you can look it up
Why are you arguing photography isnt art?
Why are YOU arguing that AI generated art isn’t art?
when did they say that
I think this whole post basically works on that assumption.
The OP says “If you’re an art lover, now is the best time to support your favourite smaller artists.”
It’s heavily implied that those “smaller artists” aren’t untrained painters who are using text prompts to generate an image.
you aren’t the artist if you didn’t make the art
photography is art
Sketch artists gave way to photographs, traditional artists gave way to digital artists, now photography will give way to AI. AI is still enhanced by traditional art, as is our culture, and it’s value won’t change because the value is in the expression not the medium. AI is just another tool in the digital art tool-set. I’ve been a digital artist for 25 years, and if you’re threatened by AI instead of embracing it’s ability to improve and enhance your work then I’m sorry, welcome to the past, this is you:
This is an AI generated image made with copyright free community resources. Each AI generated image made contributes further to a global wealth of artistic knowledge at the fingertips of all. If you’re interested seek out FOSS AIgen software like Stable Diffusion and community resources as linked below, or visit the various AIgen communities here on Lemmy.See more: https://civitai.com/user/lorom
Referral link: https://civitai.com/login?ref_code=LOR-IYGIn the long run, perhaps, but this is a sudden change that affects people’s livelihoods. It’s a tool that requires significant artistic input to even be copyrightable for the time being. This means it can’t fully replace big money projects, but can negatively impact some commission based art. They must focus on providing things that AI can’t easily replicate, which takes effort and time that struggling artists trying to make a living don’t have. It’s our system where people must maximize their direct economic value to survive that’s the biggest issue, not the advances in technology themselves.
Copyright will be forced to crumble or be enforced with physical force. The fact is we’re moving to a society where information recording and reproduction is improving to the point where physical likeness is a contributing factor in the socialisation of all knowledge and information. Anything that can be represented in the physical world can have a visual facsimile created. Our time is temporary but for the first time in human history something as little as having a photo taken of yourself can literally contribute to the advancement of all humanity.
Don’t let the corpos steal the right to your likeness, everyone deserves to see your beauty.
It’s FUNNY that an AI white knight thinks he is standing against Corpos when he is towing the line of exactly what corpos want.
Corpos want independent artist supporting themselves with FOSS tools? Nice!
“Artists” “Independent”
Corpos want artists to die, so does everyone defending AI “”“”“”“”““art””“”“”“”“”“”
So why are you trying to help them by attacking independent artists? Here, I believe you were licking these.
These corporate shills can’t be convinced. It’s their job.
everyone deserves to see your beauty.
the Algorithm disagrees.
Then they deserve to be disturbed by your beauty. ❤️
Also when they make AI that doesn’t require real artist input to even do what it does now then I’ll believe it’s anything but the plagiarism that it is.
I don’t find this argument very convincing. All artists draw some inspiration from previous artwork, that doesn’t make it plagiarism. Even if it’s heavily influenced by other artwork it’s not plagiarism if it’s something original.
My art started as copying sailor moon. Then copying other anime styles. I make totoro and other copyrighted characters into figurines. Creativity shouldn’t ever be owned. It’s not property. If these Chinese knock off companies can do it why can’t I? Oh because I’m not a freaking corporation with lawyers.
Plagiarism is disguising another person’s work as your own. Assuming the AI generated image is labeled as such, no plagiarism is occurring.
When real artists make art without tools made by someone else, or knowledge gained form someone else, I’ll agree with you.
We stand on the shoulders of the giants who came before us so we can reach higher than they ever did.
The problem is that AI can’t create anything new, it can just remix old stuff.
Here’s a test: Try to make your AI system of choice create a picture of New York’s streets without cars.
The problem is that AI can’t create anything new, it can just remix old stuff.
Oh, so you mean exactly like humans?
Even if we try to imagine anything we have never seen, we still use things we know.
That is why the indescribable cosmic horror of Cthulhu still are mostly eyes, teeth and tentacles.
Like how every populair song either uses the same four chords or is just a remix of Pachelbel?
my second point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdxkVQy7QLM
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=JdxkVQy7QLM
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/5pidokakU4I?si=bP8XEeNk5ju6EPul
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
30 seconds and a basic prompt, no specific training data packages.
These people have absolutely no idea how AI create. It’s baffling.
create anything new, it can just remix old stuff.
Same thing different phrasing.
Maybe you prefer zombies.
A common misconception
You should try using it! If nothing else, you can then talk about it, instead of conveying misinformation
Yes yes we should all give up on human expression and let machines do everything. AI art is great and totally not an unethical monstrosity generated on plagiarism of people’s actual efforts.
Am I not expressing myself with every image?
No you’re just asking a robot to make shit for you. That is not expression, that is, at best, a more modern version of grabbing shit off google images and calling it “expression”
Your just using an auto collaging tool.
Like if you were to go to art school, but outsourced all the art making to some Photoshop artist in I dia for $3. And claimed it as your own.
If you don’t put in the sweat and tears, you aren’t creating. I’d go farther and say prompting is closer to story boarding at a marketing firm, and you’re the boss/project manager.
It’s pretty neat technology, but it’s so far from actual content creation through the artistic process.
Ok, on your bike, you have 30 seconds to post a reply image of your own making. Let’s test your skill against mine.
You understand that just shitting out images isn’t really doing your point any favors, right? Art isn’t about how fast you can make something; I’d argue that how fast it took to make a particular piece of art is the last thing anyone would care about.
But, this is the crux of all of this. You’re not creating art, you are making images. Images are a commodity all about the quick visual and so that’s how you’re engaging with these models. As though they were a throwaway commodity. There is no intent or exploration in any of these; no catharsis. It’s all just empty and devoid.
It’s pretty neat technology, but it’s so far from actual content creation through the artistic process.
And this right here shows just how expansive your lack of understanding is.
Too slow.
This IS human expression. I can finally express what I see in my mind. I can’t sculpt or draw everything. This gives me inspiration. You don’t want my art. You don’t want my music. You never bought anything I created.
You want a slave in a machine called Warner Brothers or Disney to produce your entertainment and heaven forbid an AI had a hand in making her job easier. Such bad faith arguing!
I mean, fuck yeah I don’t want your art because by your own admission it’s AI generated trash and therefore not art.
Yet I buy art from artists. All the time. I have framed and printed pieces from a couple furry artists I know.
Also corporations have been positively frothing with joy at AI’s growth because it means they don’t need to hire actual people anymore. Already they are looking to replace writers and actors with AI generated facsimiles. That was the entire basis of the writers’ strike a few months ago. So the whole “AI ART WILL FREE US FROM CORPORATIONS” argument is a non-starter.
Lol no honey, AI isn’t the way of the future and some troglodyte like yourself certainly isn’t going to dictate what social and moral path we take as a people. You are not in control here.
Of course I’m not, society will move on without the chaff by it’s own accord, always has. So relax, sit back, and enjoy the view.
You’re the chaff.
You seem sad, here’s a fox made of your tears to cheer you up!
ooh could we have another colorful polygonal bird please? Preferably one that looks like a hawk
Gladly!
“no u”
GOTTEM
You seem really abrasive for no reason…are you ok?
That’s the most hypocritical statement i’ve ever read. The fear of change is a dangerous thing.
Whenever machines have become better than humans at anything, we’ve still placed more value on the handmade items. Same applies here. Keep creating! People love your original stuff.
I hope originals will have a way to copyright it and if an AI uses it for anything, pays the artist. We have to keep up with this, or it’s going to be a very dark world where imagination goes quiet.
I recommend reading this article by Kit Walsh, a senior staff attorney at the EFF if you haven’t already. The EFF is a digital rights group who most recently won a historic case: border guards now need a warrant to search your phone.
Also remember that AI training isn’t only for mega-corporations. We can already train open source models, we shouldn’t put up barriers that only benefit the ultra-wealthy. If we weaken fair use, we hand corporations a monopoly of a public technology by making it prohibitively expensive to for regular people to keep up. Mega corporations already own datasets, and have the money to buy more. And that’s before they make users sign predatory ToS allowing them exclusive access to user data, effectively selling our own data back to us. Regular people, who could have had access to a competitive, corporate-independent tool for creativity, education, entertainment, and social mobility, would instead be left worse off and with fewer rights than where they started.
The article didn’t say, but doea that ruling cover the many mile wide “border” zone?
Margins go up, but demand goes down.
People that simp for AI art just don’t want to pay artists. Pricing for commissions can vary depending on the artist and what’s being asked. Then to make it worse, some of the more popular artists either don’t take commissions or they are always sold out almost immediately. So some people decide instead of paying or learning to draw themselves, they will just let the AI do it. They steal other people’s work and feed it to the AI so it can emulate the desired artist. Some even have the audacity to sell it.
And how many of those people you think would be willing to pay for some drawings if AI wouldn’t exist?
If artists can’t compete with AI, they’re bad artists or produce bad art, simple as that.
It’s actually pretty arrogant of all those “artists” to think that they somehow deserve to be paid and praised just because they call themselves artists. A DeviantArt account doesn’t entitle you to be paid for every drawing.
Artists can’t compete with an AI that can pump out thousands of images a day, regardless of how good they are.
Also, I have never known a single artist that expects to get paid or praised just for making something. We don’t feel entitled to anything, we just don’t want every attempt we make to be marginalized and our artworks constantly stolen.
“Sketch artists can’t compete with photography!” - 1850’s
“Painters can’t compete with colour photography!” - 1950’s
“Traditional artists cant compete with Photoshop!” - 2000’s
“Traditional/Digital artists can’t compete with AI!” - 2020’sNo one is taking art away, because it’s the expression that matters, not the medium. Mass production will always go the way of maximum efficiency, and even then experts in the appropriate skills rise to the top.
Source: Digital artist for 25 years now using FOSS AIgen tools.
I don’t necessarily disagree with you here, but
We don’t feel entitled to anything, we just don’t want every attempt we make to be marginalized and our artworks constantly stolen.
is contradictory. You believe that you are entitled to publish and distribute your work while retaining some control over how it is used. Again, I don’t disagree with that take, but you either feel as though you deserve something (be it payment, credit, control, or something else) for the art you disseminate, or you don’t.
Its not really a contradiction, just poor wording on my part.
By “we don’t feel entitled” I meant that we don’t generally go around making art and expecting everyone to give us a thumbs up and a bunch of money for it. With the marginalized part I was talking about when we do share our artwork, there needs to safe places to do so without having our work taken without consent and used for something we didn’t agree to. The vast majority of the time artists post online, not to make money or even get recognized, but to share something they are proud of with their community and get invaluable feedback from them. Its kinda building a box fort as a kid, you don’t expect everyone to praise or pay you for making it, but your still proud of it and want to show it off to your friends. It sure feels like shit when the adults come, take it all down, and tell you to grow up. And it feels even worse when the bullies take credit and everyone praises them for the amazing box fort they “made”.
When it comes to retaining control, that shouldn’t be something that we deserve or feel entitled to like its a box of Lego in the toy store. Control of their creation should be an automatic right and expectation for anyone that makes something, regardless of whether or not they are an artist.
Here’s my take as an artist. Sometimes the things we hold most dear are too delicate to share. Either make art for the public, or make art for private consumption. If you do the former accept that anything you release to the public is owned by the public, consider it advertising, and when you do the latter make sure you keep what is private out of the access of the public. If someone likes what you can do they’ll come to you for commissions, if they then release those commissions to the public then that’s their choice to socialise that artwork, consider it advertising.
But the only way for art to be great is if it shared, and the Internet is the single greatest invention for doing just that. There are rules and laws already in place meant to protect artists and let them share safely. We just need the laws to catch up with the modern world and AI. There has to be a happy medium where artists can create and share their art openly while AI can advance safely and be used as the powerful tool that it is.
I agree, but you don’t share a faberge egg with a child, nor a nude with an enemy. Understanding that anything you put into the public sphere is prone to be poked, grabbed, smeared, and stolen is just a natural part of sharing. Even laws can only protect so much and only in retrospect.
Also, I have never known a single artist that expects to get paid or praised just for making something
Yeah, that’s a lie.
Artists can’t compete with an AI that can pump out thousands of images a day, regardless of how good they are.
Ok, so they are obsolete. Simple as that.
Your precious little AI would not exist without those “obsolete” artist making the art that AI is trained on, and if they ever stop making art then you will never an original, creative work of art again.
And your artists wouldn’t exist without generations of artists before them and a bunch of scientists developing the computers that run all the tools modern artists use.
What exactly is your point here? Are we morally obliged to safeguard current artists, simply because their predecessors once made significant contributions to the field?
BTW, don’t argue ad hominem. I’m not pro AI, I’m just against unjustified entitlement.
Take away the photoshop and the drawing tablet and those artists will still know how to draw using pencils and paper. Take away the AI and those that use it won’t know what to do.
Take away the supermarket around the corner and both of us, and most artists, will starve.
BTW: can you make paint from whatever nature provides you? Can you make paper and pencils?
I wouldn’t call them bad artists for being outpaced by AI. No human can produce content by hand as fast as a computer. AI is just another tool in an extremely long list of tools that have changed how art is made.
If you go back far enough, I bet cavemen had arguments when someone invented the first brush and could paint all day long without bloodying their fingers scraping them against cave walls. Half joking there, but new and better tools are always being developed. Cameras are a great example of a new tool for art that made art a lot more accessible and affordable and we now accept as a normal artistic tool and not a threat. This attitude against AI will also pass over time.
if ai stops hurting real people
You’re mad at the wrong thing. AI, when used ethically and responsibly, can increase a human’s output in many tasks. This is a good thing and is how we advance as a society. AI does not hurt people. We’re not talking about Skynet.
What does hurt people is when unethical companies exploit their workforce by capturing their increased output without also compensating them for producing that additional output. That’s theft, and it has always happened whenever new tools are invented. But that theft isn’t perpetrated by the tool; it’s the employer that’s at fault. This is why unions are so important.
guns don’t kill people
People kill people… with guns. So we regulate people’s use of guns instead of putting guns in jail.
Like I said. Unions are important. So is labor regulation.
do you regulate ai
were household system products outcompeted because they were bad
Is that a statement? A question?
is question
Then the answer is yes. Or do you still use a washboard?
washing machine work isn’t lower quality
I don’t think you know yourself want thought you want to express.
deleted by creator
It’s tricky. Anyone can start playing with prompts to get exactly what they like.
I worry for what effects this will have even further down the line, art is so fundamental to us.Most people here don’t want to pay for "anything*
Yup. Thats actually it. And then some of those people decide they care enough to pay for it themselves and then possibly spend more than paying for it from the big guys funny enough. But i do understand wanting to own what you do and have rather than rent it.
But we really got to get back to paying for what we do, and decide with more care who and how. But like good luck getting everyone else to even consider less or slowing down for that.
So learning to draw like a particular artist is okay, but developing a computer system to do the same thing is not okay? Why?
I mean, yeah I wouldn’t wanna pay someone if I can get an art of the same quality for free. Love me my automated hentai!
The absolute Toxicity in this thread is just so depressing the see. Lemmy, I thought you where better then this… I thought this was supposed to be reddit without the petty toxicity in every comment section…
Techbros don’t understand art and at the moment lemmy is full of techbros
If you think art and tech are separate things, then you understand neither.
What do you think video games are made on? Painting canvases?
~Sincerely, an artist that works in IT.
Umm when did I say ‘artists don’t understand the tech that they need’? OTOH say something about AI generated content and you have techbros coming out of woodworks to give their hot takes while they can’t even draw a stick figure.
I’ll cry about not being able to use a pencil over my fancy keyboard. I wonder how many traditional artists make their own brushes and pencils.
No matter how hard you try, downloading models from civitai and typing shit into stable diffusion doesn’t make you an artist
You’re right, what makes me an artist is being able to express myself through my chosen medium.
Stop labeling people something that has nothing to do with this. We aren’t peddling some obscure crypto. I’m no bro. It’s just so weird to me people on lemmy of all places are all fearful of AI… something I never thought I would see in my lifetime. It’s fucking amazing.
These are not the same thing and you know it, despite your gaslighting.
People using technology to express themselves is not the same as asking a fully automated plagiarism device to create shit by copying other shit.
It never will be.
The human input is where we go from ‘reproduction’ to ‘art’, and is why photography counts as art despite just capturing real things, because a human is behind it. Sets what’s on camera. Expression.
AI “Art” is not expression and never will be. It’s just tracing with extra steps.
These complainers sound like people speaking for Japanese people when they scream cultural appropriation when a white woman wears a kimono her host mother in Japan gave her.
Stop speaking for us, we have absolutely no problem with AI, our art is not threatened.
credential:
What a stupid take what does that even mean?
Exactly what it says. Techbros don’t understand art.
Edgy, did you come up with that all by yourself?
I understand neither.
What now?
I’m so sorry to hear that
Its funny when a side only has fear mongering and elitism to its name, and then wonders why they dont get more people on their side
You keep using that word.
It doesn’t mean what you think it means.
If anything you’re an elite using expensive technology which has unethically consumed art to regurgitate it.
Pick up a pencil and put in the work instead of benefiting from work of exploited artists.
Dude my credit card’s have been maxxed out for the last 3 paychecks and I live alone in a sardine can, but yeah, sure I’m an elite. And btw idiot, Elitist is the word to pull off elitism, not Elite, we dont call people who engage in racism races. I’ve not once brought up elites, being poor or low class does not stop one from being elitist. Fuckin go commission some artists if you care so much about them instead of harrassing AI Artists
This guy won’t be buying anything you create so you can pay your bills so why bother even interacting with him.
A few things:
1: I’ve blocked them as their low quality takes so far weren’t adding anything to my life, so at this point I am no longer interacting with them
2: No one is buying my art, I dont make it to sell, MAYBE I’ll host a shop on Gaia for the online currency for people’s chars once I’ve got my wardrobing set up more efficient, but I’m waiting for more ethically clear systems and the laws around AI to solidify before I’ll engage on the monetary front… IF I engage on the monetary front.
3: Considering I make homes, yeah, theres a good chance some of these people will buy things I’ve created if they live in my region
I’m no tech bro, and so far us artists are the ones actually defending AI because, holy moly, it’s just crazy to think people truly believe in Skynet and all this conspiracy theory stuff.
My dad is an artist as well and he loves AI generated images. I will be training one in my own styles myself. It will make my work so much easier.
AI has the possibility to be an amazing tool for artists, but people are already training it on other people’s work to copy specific artists so that they and others don’t have to pay for commissions. There was even one case of somebody sending a copy of a piece of concept art one of the artists for Genshin Impact was working on on a livestream through an AI tool and then attempting to threaten the artist on stream with copyright violations, claiming that they had created the concept art.
Yeah, I’m noticing a nearly complete disregard for actual artists to the point where I can pretty much guess who is and isn’t an artist in this thread.
Artists burnt out my empathy towards them with their elitism and fear mongering. They arent special in capitalism’s march to take our livelihoods away from us, but they decided to lash out at their own class instead of lashing out at the corporations taking their jobs
Funny, I don’t remember lashing out. I just wanted to use my art to make sense of the life changes my disability has brought about. Fuck corporations every day, but you’re no better lumping every artist together as this monster in your head. Your empathy isn’t as important as you think it is.
Never said my empathy was, just that you arent entitled to it. And cool, keep making art for yourself, and I’ll keep making art for myself. If you stop making your own art because of how I make mine however, I dont really have any sympathy at ALL
Maybe that’s because their own class is stealing and emulating their art without permission, sometimes even on purpose as a “fuck you” to them. In this case it’s not just the corporations screwing them over.
They’ve decided to brand what the AI does as stealing in order to twist the narrative. It isnt stealing when the images are generated from scratch. And because they are using full manipulative tactics to enhance their fear mongering, they deserve ever bit of fuck you’s they can get
Generated from scratch? How do you think AI generates images? They need to be trained on images to produce anything coherent, there is no “generated from scratch” with AI (well, DL like stable diffusion)
Do you think humans create art in a vacuum? They dont, they use all the art they have ever seen or grown up around for inspiration. Do you owe Disney a cut because their movies as a child inspired you to get into art?
And how humans understand things is same as feeding pixels to a program?
Give some credit to your brain.
I don’t, and I never said that. I was replying to your assertion that it isn’t stealing if it’s generated from scratch. Your assumption that AI (DL) generates from scratch is simply wrong.
It is stealing, the computer just copypastes shit.
Ok grandpa
Also being ageist will not make what I said any less true.
Their own class is making FOSS tools like Stable Diffusion and training models on copyright free sources and AI generated imagery, the corporations are the only ones stealing.
Well there was the incident with voice actress Erica Lindbeck where someone used AI tools to make a song using her voice. That doesn’t fall under any laws currently but it’s still an asshole thing to do, without first getting permission. Or how about when someone was making AI art in someone else’s style and even tried to credit the original artist as if they were the creator.
New tools new problems new solutions. Identity theft has always existed, it’s time for society to realise everything they contribute can now be socialised as knowledge and information for all, including our voices. Other voice actresses, like the one who voiced Lydia for Skyrim, also requested that her voice not be used for mods and facsimiles, this was for the most part respected by the creator community, but can’t be enforced, and any person with less clout won’t have any control over their exposure any more. Society will have to accept that our physical likenesses are publicly accessible information than can be replicated, this was always going to become the case, recording information is what humans do best. Next up, thoughts and memories.
So you hate art, not unusual coming from someone who complains about the “elites” which we all know what that’s code word for
Lmao, nice stealth edit asshole. Nowhere did I say elites. By class meant people who work for a living and barely get by, those who have absolutely ZERO impact on an artists ability to get by. But no, I don t hate art, I love it. I hate elitISM as in the shit you’re pulling by determining what does and doesnt classify as art, and I hate people like you, which a lot of artists are deciding to lean towards in their fear
“Their own class” like the kind of techbro that uses AI “art” counts as an artist in any way, shape, or form. 💀
Ah yes, elitism and othering. I mean, I’m making this art for myself, so the fact that luddites who paradoxically use the internet are angry with me arnet going to stop me using it (See? I can other too!)
“How dare you go against this unethical thing that works based on theft, even though you use technology?”
Yep. Maybe look into the supply chains that go into making the computer chips for your phones/computers. Pretty hypocritical of you to judge others for using tech that isnt 100% ethically sourced/founded when you are speaking to them using tech that is also impossible to ethically source and obtain. I specifically avoid using artist style tags in my prompts, and do what I can to lessen the grey in my usage of the tech. What are you doing to lessen the grey in your cellphone/computer usage? How dare you profit off of slave labour just so you can look at cat memes?
Yeah yeah yeah whatever.
Bunch of losers that always hated artists and art started calling themselves “”“”“”“”“artists”“”“”“” because they can ask a machine to show them titties (like they couldn’t before), and then use the defence that “artists are othering me even though I’m an artist too!” fuck off.
You’re like a kid that got an easy bake oven and some cake mix and thinks they’re a chef.
Going to a restaurant and telling the cooks they should just surrender before your technological superiority.
Because don’cha know it’s the future and the future can and should roll over millions of people and human suffering is just a variable in an excel sheet and not even the most important, I can ask the computer to show me titties now!
appeal to hypocrisy
Most of my friends that are creative make art for themselves first. Some of them make a few bucks here and there and a small fraction of them makes a living with their art. None of them seem worried, their main concern is making art.
Egat i see in this thread is a problem with having a shitty business model if today’s AI is really putting you out of business. Any other technology improvement would have wiped you away regardless. Like I’m picturing people designing logos and all of a sudden becoming useless and complaining that that can’t make art any more
Yeah, but here’s a thing, if you want all of your art made by the middle classes and the financially secure, this is how we proceed.
With FOSS AIgen tools like Stable Diffusion and copyright free community resources like https://www.civitai.com? Express yourself. Referral link if you want to make something: https://civitai.com/login?ref_code=LOR-IYG
My man are you paid to advertise these guys?
You plugged them on every reply lmao.
I’m confused, are you against independent artists using copyright free FOSS tools to express themselves and each other?
Uh-huh, is this copyright free FOSS tool fed on scraping images from art sites without the artists’ consent or even knowledge?
Give me proof that is not the case, and maybe I’ll shut up and at least go “okay, have fun with your computer-aided collages, at least they are dodging the worst of this fundamentally unethical invention”.
Also lmao at prompt-writing being “art” or “expression” in any way. Reproducing someone else’s shit is not expression.
Hardly so, and not a new problem: art has been made for millennia despite lack of financial security. A couple of exceptions here and there with patronage a la Medici but neither prehistoric people making graffiti nor van gogh were financially secure, and they produced art nonetheless
Well by definition most of us aren’t artists. Artists are a small minority. It would be pretty easy to guess who isn’t an artist by just claiming everyone isn’t except for the people explicitly say they are and it would be like 98 percent true.
True, but some of these people are making it pretty obvious even if they don’t explicitly say anything.
like i’ve pointed out elsewhere in the thread, this is a place where people who hate another thing go. you’re kidding yourself looking for utopia here. Lemmy is a clone, not something actually different.
Non of that excuses the toxicity. We as a community have to collectively fight against this type of thing. Toxicity should have no place here, or anywhere for that matter. Ofcourse thats a pretty utopian mindset of its own im aware, but we have to atleast try. Because the second we allow it to be normalized, everything will go even further to shit
This is not a monolithic community, it’s an online link aggregator / forum
It’s not an excuse, it’s an explanation. There is no community here, there are many. Your words, unfortunately, ring hollow.
There are a few communities here that are great, but so many from the front page are just toxic junk, be it regarding economics or politics. I find myself closing comment sections and not interacting here way more often than in the past on reddit - so much childishness, it’s quite sad.
But I also have to say that I find it too annoying and empty here to properly build my front page with my interests, so I’m just cruising on the Everything page. Since there are no limits here for Everything like on reddit, of course I (we) have to dig through all the intellectual trash too. I want to block that toxic shithole hexbear so bad.
I’m ticked at how everyone is blindly jumping on the AI art train. None of these comments praising it even have any downvotes. It’s really disheartening.
I’ve got your back :3 bashing those downvote buttons
Why would it be different? Many folks here commented on Reddit to. There’s no like… Firewall
It’s almost like people call out bullshit regardless of the platform that’s being used
I don’t really see much toxicity. Some people are just afraid of change, and ai is just another technology jump, most of what Ive read in rhis thread so far is about this being similar tothe introduction of photoshop. A bit less fearmongering would go a long way, and this might be an opportunity for those artists that are being impacted to review and improve their business model if it’s really that delicate ai is not their only concern
Digital tools still required human work. This is false equivalency.
Yeah, I especially expected more out of 196 especially. I saw people attacking someone in droves today for being entitled for posting something mildly infuriating in mildly infuriating. It’s like everyone here is just looking to lash out.
I switched from reddit expecting something different. Turns out all those people that made reddit terrible decided to migrate to lemmy and mastadon too
LOL where did you get that idea???
This whole thread just reminded me why I hate techbros. Thanks
I think there’s a place for both AI images and artists, there’s no need to be tribalistic for this. I used AI to generate some albums covers for my personal playlists, but I won’t print out AI art and put it on my wall or anything. But this whole story got me interested in making commissions, since I’ve never done it before, and I think a piece of art can be a wonderful gift for someone.
id totally pay for someone to draw my playlist art. but my income isnt that indisposable
Yeah I wouldn’t mind it, but it’s only for a very niche use, just to appease my OCD. I can’t actually see the cover art clearly, the screen is goddamn small on my mp3 player. So paying would be overkill for this.
If a computer can create art better than you, maybe you’re a bad artist?
I don’t get this discussion at all. The internal combustion engine did away with horses. Do we mourn horses? Excavators replaced people with shovels, electric computers replaced their human predecessors, even alarm clocks replaced humans. Why do people who splatter paint on canvas think they deserve special treatment?
We don’t have to feed horses to cars so we can make cars. We need artists to create original works to feed AI.
Great. That means there is a natural demand for artists. If AI starts failing because it isn’t fed enough art, the demand will rise.
Unfortunately, as evidenced by half of this comments section, a lot of people are starting think of artists as irrelevant. Unless this changes soon, art is going to really suck for a while. Especially for those of us making art but aren’t popular enough to weather the storm.
a lot of people are starting think of artists as irrelevant
I’ve thought that since childhood. I’m interested in the art. The pretty pictures, the nice music. Why should I care if a human or AI made it?
The only thing we need humans for (for now) is innovation. But then, listen to the billboard top 100 and tell me where you find innovation throughout these human artists. Take me to an art gallery and tell me how “I threw my brush at the canvas” has a right to exist next to “I threw my palette at the canvas” and “I throw a bucket of paint against the canvas”. Inform me how <DC movie number 28> differs meaningfully from number 27.
I think you might have a poor understanding of what art actually is or how it gets made. Sure there are some artists throwing random shit at a canvas, but there are significantly more that spend decades working their ass off perfecting their skills. The latter rarely get recognized for their work and aren’t making it on the top 100 lists, and AI is making it infinitely harder for them to be seen.
Also, AI would not exist without human artists creating the artworks that AI is trained on.
did you see ai art
Yes, it is great
is bad ._.
And we based digital brush patterns ans effects in computer art programs on real ones made by skilled artisans. Are you going to complain that digital artists are bad because they’re putting brush makers out of business?
deleted by creator
If a computer can create better at than you, maybe it’s because the computer stole all your art and combined it with everyone else’s.
The replacement of art by AI has very little in common with the replacement of horses by cars. Art is an inherently subjective thing that does not fill a singular, tangible role in society. AI, by it’s very nature, can never properly replace human made art. Especially since AI art can only exist because of human creations.
Us artists don’t think we deserve special treatment, we just don’t want to see something we love get ruined because of a computer that stole all of our work.
the computer stole all your art and combined it with everyone else’s.
I’m literally begging people to actually learn how AI works before being loudly opinionated on it on the internet.
A big part of learning how AI works is recognizing some of the problems it creates. Also, I wasn’t trying to describe how AI works, just pointing out that a lot of AI is trained on misappropriated artwork.
AI works simply by sealing other peoples hard work and meshing it together using certain parameters. IT’s not complicated nor has it ever been complicated. all AI works simply by stealing from others
It’s not a matter of better, it’s a matter of quicker, easier and probably free. You have it backwards, if you get good AI art, then you have good/great artists that they’re pulling from. Think of all of those animations that already treat their animators poorly, they’re going to replace them in a heart beat. Same with video games. I don’t think these artists ever felt special, lol.
ai art isn’t better
In many cases it actually is.
Plenty of artists think their art is hot shit when it is in fact just shit.
how
To be fair, every good artist is going to start out as a bad artist, but if people give up at that early stage, they’ll never get better. Personally though, I don’t think AI is going to replace artists, as a group. It will replace some artists, those who’s work is most readily replaceable and which don’t get some of their perceived value from the identity of the artist themselves, and this is going to cause real problems for these people that should not be ignored; but art as a whole will still exist, and even still exist as a profession. There are any number of niches where the identity of the artist themselves is part of the appeal of the art they make (for example, a painting of a soup can, by itself, is probably nothing particularly special or appealing as paintings go. A painting of a soup can by Andy Warhol is the sort of thing that might be displayed in art galleries and be considered very valuable. Or for a less “gallery art” example, if a small time artist who does, say, an independent animated cartoon series, or does character art commissions, or such, has acquired a fanbase around their work, they will probably still be able to get donations or commission requests from those people, because even if an AI could create something that looks similar, it would not have the appeal of being from that person for those fans.) That isn’t even getting into physical art mediums, I don’t expect that stable diffusion or whatever is going to replacing an artist who makes metal sculptures, for instance.
On some level, it might ultimately help some artists be more productive too. AIs that can create pictures from a prompt are cool and all, but just text isn’t always enough to clearly communicate an image one has in one’s head. I see no reason they also couldn’t be subtly incorporated into digital art tools to make it easier for an artist to create exactly what they are imagining, say, you could have an AI that figures out where the borders between objects are in a drawing and so lets one fill in lineart quickly even of it has gaps, or generate reference images from a specific angle at a chosen part of a drawing to help plan out how everything works in a scene, or fill in what is behind something when part of a drawing is erased (I’ve already seen tools that do that one).
Ultimately, I suspect that this will be somewhat analogous to how there are still tailors and blacksmiths in the world, even though we automated the production of clothing and metal tools long ago. There aren’t as many of them, sure, but their crafts still exist, there are still people that make a living doing those things, and those that exist today have tools their predecessors wouldn’t have dreamed of, like sewing machines and power hammers.
If they arent doing the art for themselves then nah, I dont care if they’ve decided they’ve been replaced
You think that’s bad?
Just wait until AI gets good enough to replace your typical white collar job. It’s already starting to happen with call centers, and I’d say we’re about a decade away from self driving vehicles.
We may hit unprecedented global unemployment rates as a result of AI. And before you tell me it’s UBI’s time to shine, universal basic income is a leftist pipe dream that will either bankrupt us or pay an absolute pittance.
Our governments can’t even get capitalists to pay their fair share of tax right now. What makes you think they’ll fork up to give everyone a guaranteed income?
The same amount of work will still be accomplished, why should the owners of those AI systems be the only ones who can sit on their ass earning all the profit we currently produce as a society?
because communism is a dirty word apparently
UBI is not Communism. Not even close.
In a matter of fact, they are incompatible.
In a matter of fact, they are incompatible.
Well that could use an explaination
Communism intends a society where money and a class system are abolished and a new society is built.
UBI supposes a society where capitalism still exists – But you get an allowance for existing and can take on a job as an option to get more money for said capitalism.
Neither could happen in reality without some billionaires being slaughtered, but the latter has a far less lofty goal, in that it doesn’t seek to rebuild society in an entirely new paradigm, only to make the “work or starve” paradigm of Capitalism less pressing.
Good explaination, thanks.
Exactly! Which is why FOSS solutions like Stable Diffusion exist, and copyright free community resources like https://www.civitai.com let everyone have access to the socialised benefit of sharing knowledge and data. Here’s a referral link in case you want to make something to express yourself.
Referral link: https://civitai.com/login?ref_code=LOR-IYG
Open-sourcing fully automated plagiarism does not make it less of a soulless abomination.
Being disingenuously obtuse and wilfully ignorant doesn’t make you a thinker, it makes you a pretender.
They hate the idea that the average Joe can finally express themselves without having to be a millionaire.
protruding eyelid ._.
There’ll be a lot of people with plenty of time on their hands to go have a chat. You think rights are given? Rights are taken and secured with blood. No king gives up their kingdom without a fight.
We’ve always been a decade away from self driving vehicles
But there is actual progress now. For all its faults the Tesla auto drive is probably 95% of the way there. I get that we want it 99.9999999% perfect, and each 9 will take effort, but 5 years ago I think we were only like 40% of the way there. Progress is happening.
We are a decade away from the oil shock to end all oil shock.
UBI was going to happen under a right wing government in the 70’s. It’s not just the left that understands the benefits to society. The current crop of Conservatives are lead paint licking snowflakes however so I’m not too hopeful either but it’s an eventuality. As more boomers die off more of these Conservatives do too.
AI can never get the matted fur correct in my furry scat porn.
“Now” is the time? For fuck’s sake it has always been the time. Smaller artists have always lived and died by the donation.
If you’re approaching this from thinking AI is the problem: it has the potential to put the menial grunt labor of production art out of work. A lot of low level employees grinding backgrounds to earn resume points will have a hard time.
But moreso: it can put a wage earning artist in a position of art director for their own productions. Albeit currently said artist would need a specialized skillset of working with AI image generation. And not everyone wants to be a mini art editor or art director. It does have real threatening consequences for an industry.
Nonetheless the definition of what it means to be an artist is a fluid and dynamic concept. Maybe portfolios for art school won’t be a selection of painted works on canvas and instead an individually developed and trained checkpoint model for AI generation.
On the flip side, open source AI (and other tools) make it possible for single indie artists to do more, faster, and (at least in the world of animation), compete with the bigger studios out there.
