• Mr.Mofu@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    11 months ago

    The absolute Toxicity in this thread is just so depressing the see. Lemmy, I thought you where better then this… I thought this was supposed to be reddit without the petty toxicity in every comment section…

      • Honytawk@lemmy.zip
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        11 months ago

        If you think art and tech are separate things, then you understand neither.

        What do you think video games are made on? Painting canvases?

        ~Sincerely, an artist that works in IT.

        • This is fine🔥🐶☕🔥@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          Umm when did I say ‘artists don’t understand the tech that they need’? OTOH say something about AI generated content and you have techbros coming out of woodworks to give their hot takes while they can’t even draw a stick figure.

          • LemmysMum@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            I’ll cry about not being able to use a pencil over my fancy keyboard. I wonder how many traditional artists make their own brushes and pencils.

          • Ataraxia@sh.itjust.works
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            11 months ago

            Stop labeling people something that has nothing to do with this. We aren’t peddling some obscure crypto. I’m no bro. It’s just so weird to me people on lemmy of all places are all fearful of AI… something I never thought I would see in my lifetime. It’s fucking amazing.

        • Count Regal Inkwell@pawb.social
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          11 months ago

          These are not the same thing and you know it, despite your gaslighting.

          People using technology to express themselves is not the same as asking a fully automated plagiarism device to create shit by copying other shit.

          It never will be.

          The human input is where we go from ‘reproduction’ to ‘art’, and is why photography counts as art despite just capturing real things, because a human is behind it. Sets what’s on camera. Expression.

          AI “Art” is not expression and never will be. It’s just tracing with extra steps.

        • Ataraxia@sh.itjust.works
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          11 months ago

          These complainers sound like people speaking for Japanese people when they scream cultural appropriation when a white woman wears a kimono her host mother in Japan gave her.

          Stop speaking for us, we have absolutely no problem with AI, our art is not threatened.

      • Kedly@lemm.ee
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        11 months ago

        Its funny when a side only has fear mongering and elitism to its name, and then wonders why they dont get more people on their side

        • This is fine🔥🐶☕🔥@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          You keep using that word.

          It doesn’t mean what you think it means.

          If anything you’re an elite using expensive technology which has unethically consumed art to regurgitate it.

          Pick up a pencil and put in the work instead of benefiting from work of exploited artists.

          • Kedly@lemm.ee
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            11 months ago

            Dude my credit card’s have been maxxed out for the last 3 paychecks and I live alone in a sardine can, but yeah, sure I’m an elite. And btw idiot, Elitist is the word to pull off elitism, not Elite, we dont call people who engage in racism races. I’ve not once brought up elites, being poor or low class does not stop one from being elitist. Fuckin go commission some artists if you care so much about them instead of harrassing AI Artists

            • Ataraxia@sh.itjust.works
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              11 months ago

              This guy won’t be buying anything you create so you can pay your bills so why bother even interacting with him.

              • Kedly@lemm.ee
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                11 months ago

                A few things:

                1: I’ve blocked them as their low quality takes so far weren’t adding anything to my life, so at this point I am no longer interacting with them

                2: No one is buying my art, I dont make it to sell, MAYBE I’ll host a shop on Gaia for the online currency for people’s chars once I’ve got my wardrobing set up more efficient, but I’m waiting for more ethically clear systems and the laws around AI to solidify before I’ll engage on the monetary front… IF I engage on the monetary front.

                3: Considering I make homes, yeah, theres a good chance some of these people will buy things I’ve created if they live in my region

      • Ataraxia@sh.itjust.works
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        11 months ago

        I’m no tech bro, and so far us artists are the ones actually defending AI because, holy moly, it’s just crazy to think people truly believe in Skynet and all this conspiracy theory stuff.

        My dad is an artist as well and he loves AI generated images. I will be training one in my own styles myself. It will make my work so much easier.

        • EldritchFeminity@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          11 months ago

          AI has the possibility to be an amazing tool for artists, but people are already training it on other people’s work to copy specific artists so that they and others don’t have to pay for commissions. There was even one case of somebody sending a copy of a piece of concept art one of the artists for Genshin Impact was working on on a livestream through an AI tool and then attempting to threaten the artist on stream with copyright violations, claiming that they had created the concept art.

    • Sabre363@sh.itjust.works
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      11 months ago

      Yeah, I’m noticing a nearly complete disregard for actual artists to the point where I can pretty much guess who is and isn’t an artist in this thread.

      • Kedly@lemm.ee
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        11 months ago

        Artists burnt out my empathy towards them with their elitism and fear mongering. They arent special in capitalism’s march to take our livelihoods away from us, but they decided to lash out at their own class instead of lashing out at the corporations taking their jobs

        • Kumatomic@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          11 months ago

          Funny, I don’t remember lashing out. I just wanted to use my art to make sense of the life changes my disability has brought about. Fuck corporations every day, but you’re no better lumping every artist together as this monster in your head. Your empathy isn’t as important as you think it is.

          • Kedly@lemm.ee
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            11 months ago

            Never said my empathy was, just that you arent entitled to it. And cool, keep making art for yourself, and I’ll keep making art for myself. If you stop making your own art because of how I make mine however, I dont really have any sympathy at ALL

        • Dreadfighter23@sh.itjust.works
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          11 months ago

          Maybe that’s because their own class is stealing and emulating their art without permission, sometimes even on purpose as a “fuck you” to them. In this case it’s not just the corporations screwing them over.

          • Kedly@lemm.ee
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            11 months ago

            They’ve decided to brand what the AI does as stealing in order to twist the narrative. It isnt stealing when the images are generated from scratch. And because they are using full manipulative tactics to enhance their fear mongering, they deserve ever bit of fuck you’s they can get

            • Loki@feddit.de
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              11 months ago

              Generated from scratch? How do you think AI generates images? They need to be trained on images to produce anything coherent, there is no “generated from scratch” with AI (well, DL like stable diffusion)

              • Kedly@lemm.ee
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                11 months ago

                Do you think humans create art in a vacuum? They dont, they use all the art they have ever seen or grown up around for inspiration. Do you owe Disney a cut because their movies as a child inspired you to get into art?

                  • Kedly@lemm.ee
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                    11 months ago

                    LLM’s arent a 1-1 comparison to human learning, but they are the closest we have gotten yet. These programs are capable of learning and storing lessons from previous sets of instructions that are no longer currently being provided. Its not completely ridiculous to compare that to how humans learn

                • Loki@feddit.de
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                  11 months ago

                  I don’t, and I never said that. I was replying to your assertion that it isn’t stealing if it’s generated from scratch. Your assumption that AI (DL) generates from scratch is simply wrong.

                  • Kedly@lemm.ee
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                    11 months ago

                    Well I’ve watched them get made by scratch multiple times, and when I first started making gens I’d reverse google search them to see if they were too close to anything existing previously and they never were, so, I’m gonna need more proof than anyone who’s claimed it was plagiarism has been willing to provide has given so far

          • LemmysMum@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            Their own class is making FOSS tools like Stable Diffusion and training models on copyright free sources and AI generated imagery, the corporations are the only ones stealing.

              • LemmysMum@lemmy.world
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                11 months ago

                New tools new problems new solutions. Identity theft has always existed, it’s time for society to realise everything they contribute can now be socialised as knowledge and information for all, including our voices. Other voice actresses, like the one who voiced Lydia for Skyrim, also requested that her voice not be used for mods and facsimiles, this was for the most part respected by the creator community, but can’t be enforced, and any person with less clout won’t have any control over their exposure any more. Society will have to accept that our physical likenesses are publicly accessible information than can be replicated, this was always going to become the case, recording information is what humans do best. Next up, thoughts and memories.

        • Armen12@lemm.ee
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          11 months ago

          So you hate art, not unusual coming from someone who complains about the “elites” which we all know what that’s code word for

          • Kedly@lemm.ee
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            11 months ago

            Lmao, nice stealth edit asshole. Nowhere did I say elites. By class meant people who work for a living and barely get by, those who have absolutely ZERO impact on an artists ability to get by. But no, I don t hate art, I love it. I hate elitISM as in the shit you’re pulling by determining what does and doesnt classify as art, and I hate people like you, which a lot of artists are deciding to lean towards in their fear

          • Kedly@lemm.ee
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            11 months ago

            Ah yes, elitism and othering. I mean, I’m making this art for myself, so the fact that luddites who paradoxically use the internet are angry with me arnet going to stop me using it (See? I can other too!)

              • Kedly@lemm.ee
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                11 months ago

                Yep. Maybe look into the supply chains that go into making the computer chips for your phones/computers. Pretty hypocritical of you to judge others for using tech that isnt 100% ethically sourced/founded when you are speaking to them using tech that is also impossible to ethically source and obtain. I specifically avoid using artist style tags in my prompts, and do what I can to lessen the grey in my usage of the tech. What are you doing to lessen the grey in your cellphone/computer usage? How dare you profit off of slave labour just so you can look at cat memes?

                • Count Regal Inkwell@pawb.social
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                  11 months ago

                  Yeah yeah yeah whatever.

                  Bunch of losers that always hated artists and art started calling themselves “”“”“”“”“artists”“”“”“” because they can ask a machine to show them titties (like they couldn’t before), and then use the defence that “artists are othering me even though I’m an artist too!” fuck off.

                  You’re like a kid that got an easy bake oven and some cake mix and thinks they’re a chef.

                  Going to a restaurant and telling the cooks they should just surrender before your technological superiority.

                  Because don’cha know it’s the future and the future can and should roll over millions of people and human suffering is just a variable in an excel sheet and not even the most important, I can ask the computer to show me titties now!

                  • Kedly@lemm.ee
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                    11 months ago

                    Lmao ok there grampa, have fun yelling at children that are just enjoying their easy bake ovens that they aren’t real chefs

                  • Kedly@lemm.ee
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                    11 months ago

                    I mean if the shoe made in a sweatshop fits. Why the hell are you allowed to use things not completely ethically clean and I’m not? AI art isnt dark enough ethically to be killed in its crib, its far less dark than other things we allow in our day to day lives, its just new and scary, and the Art field has a history of labelling new forms of it as not valid

      • SkippingRelax@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        Most of my friends that are creative make art for themselves first. Some of them make a few bucks here and there and a small fraction of them makes a living with their art. None of them seem worried, their main concern is making art.

        Egat i see in this thread is a problem with having a shitty business model if today’s AI is really putting you out of business. Any other technology improvement would have wiped you away regardless. Like I’m picturing people designing logos and all of a sudden becoming useless and complaining that that can’t make art any more

        • adam_y@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          Yeah, but here’s a thing, if you want all of your art made by the middle classes and the financially secure, this is how we proceed.

              • LemmysMum@lemmy.world
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                11 months ago

                I’m confused, are you against independent artists using copyright free FOSS tools to express themselves and each other?

                • Count Regal Inkwell@pawb.social
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                  11 months ago

                  Uh-huh, is this copyright free FOSS tool fed on scraping images from art sites without the artists’ consent or even knowledge?

                  Give me proof that is not the case, and maybe I’ll shut up and at least go “okay, have fun with your computer-aided collages, at least they are dodging the worst of this fundamentally unethical invention”.

                  Also lmao at prompt-writing being “art” or “expression” in any way. Reproducing someone else’s shit is not expression.

          • SkippingRelax@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            Hardly so, and not a new problem: art has been made for millennia despite lack of financial security. A couple of exceptions here and there with patronage a la Medici but neither prehistoric people making graffiti nor van gogh were financially secure, and they produced art nonetheless

      • 257m@sh.itjust.works
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        11 months ago

        Well by definition most of us aren’t artists. Artists are a small minority. It would be pretty easy to guess who isn’t an artist by just claiming everyone isn’t except for the people explicitly say they are and it would be like 98 percent true.

        • Sabre363@sh.itjust.works
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          11 months ago

          True, but some of these people are making it pretty obvious even if they don’t explicitly say anything.

    • unreasonabro@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      like i’ve pointed out elsewhere in the thread, this is a place where people who hate another thing go. you’re kidding yourself looking for utopia here. Lemmy is a clone, not something actually different.

      • Mr.Mofu@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        11 months ago

        Non of that excuses the toxicity. We as a community have to collectively fight against this type of thing. Toxicity should have no place here, or anywhere for that matter. Ofcourse thats a pretty utopian mindset of its own im aware, but we have to atleast try. Because the second we allow it to be normalized, everything will go even further to shit

        • GBU_28@lemm.ee
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          11 months ago

          This is not a monolithic community, it’s an online link aggregator / forum

        • 0xD@infosec.pub
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          11 months ago

          It’s not an excuse, it’s an explanation. There is no community here, there are many. Your words, unfortunately, ring hollow.

          There are a few communities here that are great, but so many from the front page are just toxic junk, be it regarding economics or politics. I find myself closing comment sections and not interacting here way more often than in the past on reddit - so much childishness, it’s quite sad.

          But I also have to say that I find it too annoying and empty here to properly build my front page with my interests, so I’m just cruising on the Everything page. Since there are no limits here for Everything like on reddit, of course I (we) have to dig through all the intellectual trash too. I want to block that toxic shithole hexbear so bad.

    • soapyplasm@lemm.ee
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      11 months ago

      I’m ticked at how everyone is blindly jumping on the AI art train. None of these comments praising it even have any downvotes. It’s really disheartening.

    • SkippingRelax@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      I don’t really see much toxicity. Some people are just afraid of change, and ai is just another technology jump, most of what Ive read in rhis thread so far is about this being similar tothe introduction of photoshop. A bit less fearmongering would go a long way, and this might be an opportunity for those artists that are being impacted to review and improve their business model if it’s really that delicate ai is not their only concern

    • GBU_28@lemm.ee
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      11 months ago

      Why would it be different? Many folks here commented on Reddit to. There’s no like… Firewall

    • Kumatomic@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      11 months ago

      Yeah, I especially expected more out of 196 especially. I saw people attacking someone in droves today for being entitled for posting something mildly infuriating in mildly infuriating. It’s like everyone here is just looking to lash out.

    • Armen12@lemm.ee
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      11 months ago

      I switched from reddit expecting something different. Turns out all those people that made reddit terrible decided to migrate to lemmy and mastadon too