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This is legit why I have like two male friends left tbh. After 2016 I stopped giving a fuck. The problem… or maybe the cause in a way… is that I’m an oddly assertive introvert so it’s very easy for me to end up in a situation where I’m doing nothing but going off on people and making drama.
Weird… as a cis heterosexual white male, I don’t find myself hanging around people that I need to censor or correct at all. I’ve proactively cut all of those people out of my life within the past 8 years. My friends are the folks you don’t need to tell stuff like this to.
I will say, in the process of removing people that were awful, they tend to just laugh when they are “corrected,” as they find amusement in the antagonization. Once you separate yourself from them, it’s just 2-3 confused text messages and that’s the end of it.
I do (cuz family). Calling them out like this is one of my favorite pastimes since they think I’m 100% with them. Stopping them in their tracks can be really entertaining
My family is conservative and I’m still dependant on them for healthcare, so calling them out usually isn’t worth it although sometimes I still do.
Please do what’s safest for you! The family I mentioned is actually my cousins’ in-laws, so there’s no real consequence
Not saying cutting people out is wrong, you do you. But don’t you think all of this alienation we are collectively doing is leading to the echo chambers that reinforce bad behaviors?
I can only control my own behavior. I cannot force another to change, they have to want to. The only thing I can do is draw the lines I’m willing to live within and live by them. And if not associating with bad people, even if they are family, is what I need to live in a healthy way, so be it.
I do, but I don’t want to be around those people. I don’t think being around them (and trying to influence) changes anything for the better either.
I hear you, but idk what to do. I can’t engage with someone who says out loud things like “I want trump to become a dictator” and “democracy is overrated” and “your body my choice” and don’t seem to care at all that mass deporting 10+million people WILL lead to mass murder. It’s impossible to have a discussion in good faith with these people. They’ve just demonstrated that the last 8-9 years is a feature, not a bug, and let the mask off about who they really are. They’ve alienated themselves by leaving the realm of reality.
I’m not really sure. One of the most common complaints among the less extreme portions of the right is that the left is too intolerant and strict and not fun to be around. And being more welcoming of the person themselves, even while acknowledging to yourself that their beliefs are severely flawed (possibly due to factors such as propaganda, peer pressure, religious beliefs), might be a way to help capture that crowd and work to win them over.
At the same time, there needs to be a line drawn somewhere where the person is clearly being malicious and possibly dangerous and is a lost cause. Stuff like “your body my choice”, using slurs, praising suicides of marginalized people, etc isn’t worth tolerating. Also when it comes to group activities, allowing these sort of people and ideas makes minorities uncomfortable, so when they leave to someplace more comfortable now your group is just full of Nazis. I seen no problem with cutting these sort of people out.
They think this is a culture war. They believe they are at war with ideas they do not like.
They will not give ground until forced to do so. They will only do so begrudgingly, and insincerely, waiting for the day they can claw it back.
They see you as an enemy, and they give themselves rage chubbies at the thought of refusing to negotiate.
Absolutely, if you hear this nonsense, call it out, but be prepared for it to escalate.
Let’s return to a time when saying that crap out loud was enough to end a career. Make them afraid to be bigoted in public again.
Oh hey it’s that mean voice in my head
You don’t need to be cisgender, heterosexual, male or white to call people out on their bigoted beliefs.
Edit: if you are in those categories you’re more likely to be taken more seriously by other cishet white men. I think I understand the point of the original post now.
No, but bigoted, cisgendered, heterosexual white men are probably more likely to listen to other cisgendered heterosexual white men due to their bigotry.
Someone disagreeing within Chad Junior’s very narrow social circle will mean more to him than someone outside of the circle, especially if that person is also unlike Chad Junior in several ways. Unfortunate as it is.
In my experience that is almost never the case. They’ll just call you a liberal soyboy or something and never think on it further.
Definitely. It’s just an amplifier. Imagine a protestor saying “too many cops are violent and need to cool it”, as opposed to a cop saying “too many cops are violent and need to cool it”
Oh, I got it. Thanks
Exactly. Also some of us have learned to fear pushing back against cishet men who are being aggressive. As a trans lesbian I’m not going to improve the situation with confrontation, I’ll just get shouted at, called a snowflake, or otherwise dismissed. But when say, my girlfriend’s husband, a very large extremely masculine cishet guy challenges it, it may not always go well, but it’s perceived as peer disapproval as opposed to “triggering the enemy”.
It’s like you missed the point entirely
I play a lot of rocket league and the kids love homophobic slurs, I just call them pathetic.
Even a simple “bruh” can help.
Pin this somewhere.
There’s one thing I really don’t understand. And this question has no agenda except that I would like to. Also if I use the word “he” inappropriately, please for the sake of the question let that slide…
Say a woman transitions to a man. He’s a man now, right? So why is it necessary that he be called trans and someone who was born a man be called cis? I mean if the goal is equality, and it should be, why should we know or care which is the case? And the same question goes for cis/trans women.
most of the times the difference between me and a cis man is not important, so i simply say i’m a man. Sometimes the difference is important, and then i clarify i’m a trans man
90% of the time and most people i meet will have no idea i’m transgender, the other 10 are doctors, people i want to have sex with, and those i’ve talked with about trans experiences
This is the correct way to do it
Using the cis/trans labels are good when the experiences are different in some important way or it’s worth pointing out for some reason. Often it’s just better to refer to both cis and trans men as just “men” and cis and trans women as just “women”. It depends on the context. These online forums tend to be rather political or tied to identity in a way that a lot of more real life conversations won’t be. The cis and trans labels can probably be left off more often in real life than you see them used here.
It’s just useful terminology. It comes up when it comes up.
I don’t spend much time calling my girl friends trans-her, if that’s what you’re asking.
good question! You used the correct pronoun. Even more correct: that man was Assigned Female At Birth. He was always a man. You’re right, the point is exactly that it shouldn’t matter, just like bi/homo/hetero, or nonbinary/female/male. But as long as rightists unfortunately make it matter, we need to talk about it.
Well I would assume trans-men are smarted and don’t really need another guy to tell them. But then trans people like Caitlyn Jenner exist and she is dumb as shit. She has got to be the single most hated trans person ever.
As soon as you van stop using weird vocabulary as “cis man”, i would start thinking about saying any of that.
Yes, there is a lotmof right wing bullshit going on but this entire Snowflake “Im special so we need to change language” is in large part what has pushed so many people to trump yo begin with.
To out it simple: you’re part of the problem. Fix yourself too
What a weird thing to say.
Do you have the same problem with all adjectives that describe a majority? Heterosexual, right-handed, etc.?
Do you hear yourself right now?
Yes everyone would be cool with trans people and not bigots if only they didn’t use silly little acronyms
It isn’t an acronym.
CIS isn’t an acronym? What? (Non-native)
An acronym is a word which is formed by the first letters of a name for something, such as “laser” (Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation) or “radar” (RAdio Detecting And Ranging).
“Cis” isn’t that. It’s a Latin word which is the opposite of “trans”.
I thought it was one… something like child identified sex but I stand corrected it’s not that at all… thanks
Ah, I didn’t appeal to the right wing voter base, what a shame.
I see we’re in the “Trump was elected because of political correctness” phase. I remember this from 2015.
start with coherent messaging, which means you need to define terms as you use them
As someone “on the right” this is actually good advice for the future. The left’s obsession with victimhood and the orwellian nomenclature for “identity” is tiresome to the average person.
“Cishet”, for example, is basically a pejorative for “normal person”.
word to the wise, don’t do this if you don’t have the physicality to back it up
That sounds like a threat?
I’m Ron Burgundy?
Yes. We cis men know nothing of criticizing our friends, and need instruction in this.
As a gay guy who’s definitely been in the room for gay jokes because they didn’t know I was gay: yes, you do. If you are only willing to call out bad behavior when you may get caught associating with it, then you aren’t actually an ally.
Shuddap you privileged rapist, I’m telling the bears!
Fuck being a better ally. This is some dystopian mindfuck right here.
I don’t mind most marine mammals. But sea lions? I could do without sea lions.
I would like to extend some but not all of these responses to situations like but not limited to:
- X Should be the first ones to be shot.
- They’re gonna make everything better.
- These people always think that Y.
- …
“Hey white guys, fix this so we can improve society. Also, I’m choosing the bear, fuck white men.”
This sort of thing bothers me. It seems people only want white men for what they can potentially provide, then I’m sure we’ll all go back to hating again. Thanks for giving me another new label too I guess.
This should be gender agnostic advice, not specifically for white men.
I think the reason the advice is so pointed to one group is, there’s many people who disrespect the opinion of every minority, and think they’re all in a sympathetic league against them. Being belittled by another white man baffles them and makes them worry about being disincluded.
The people you’re protecting also didn’t necessarily answer that dumb bear question.
That’s true, and I wouldn’t say the phrase I quoted is specific to this post, but damn does it feel kinda close.
You’re experiencing the othering that many groups have for millennia and often times at the hands of us “cis white men”, instead of being mad about have empathy for your fellow humans who have had to go through this and grow.
Two wrongs don’t make a right. I’m going to react just as negatively to being disrespected as they would, because we’re all people who deserve respect.
Please react negatively to the disrespect brought against non-heterosexual and trans people.
What possibly makes you think I don’t do that
Honest question wtf is a “het” now?
I’m pretty pronoun positive but seriously this shit is getting ridiculous.
cis = cisgender, aka person identifies with the same gender they are born with
het = heterosexual
It’s not really new tho
New to me! Lol
It’s got a space, normally it’s written “cishet” meaning cisgender, heterosexual
het means heterosexual i think
Isnt that what cis is supposed to mean?
I want off Mr. Bones wild ride.
Cis is the opposite of trans, homo is the opposite of hetero, Cishet is a shorthand often used instead of “normal” because we’re all normal just different
Weird thing to say. Cis is gender. Het is attraction.
I looked it up. I get it now.
Good. To be clear, I was not trying to be critical of you not knowing the terms, just the attitude I found gross.
Likewise but that’s to be expected over text.
Not everyone knows and this person is trying to learn. Let’s not be critical.
I want off Mr. Bones wild ride.
Sound pretty critical. This isn’t the take of someone that’s genuinely curious and asking in good faith.
Or is it the take of someone who feels frustrated by things they don’t understand?
Considering they also said they looked it up and they get it now in response to you 10 minutes before this reply, I don’t think what you are saying is in especially good faith.
Getting frustrated by things you don’t understand is an acceptable excuse? I saw your spicy reply before theirs in my inbox, that’s all. Not sure why you’re inserting all this drama into what was basically an very in context conversation.
Frustrated by new thing. Makes it weird
The new thing is this. Don’t make it weird.
Okay I understand.
Good. It’s not that you didn’t know, it’s the attitude.
Isn’t that the whole point of the post? Having conversations like this regularly.
No it’s нет.
