I’m a millennial who was happy to not be required to go through military training back when it was still a thing but already phasing out. Bundeswehr was a thing for gun fanatics and manly men, nothing that was actually necessary. I was a pacifist. My work ethics today are now close to what Gen Z apparently has. Work is simply not the center of my life anymore.
These days I’m wondering if a 40 year old man (in better shape than my 18 year old self though) can still enlist voluntarily because I want to fight for our European values. I’d rather die in battle than being occupied by power hungry dictators. Not sure this Gen Z guy understands that his work life balance days are over if that happens.
You’re absolutely not too old to join the Bundeswehr. Depending on your life situation you could opt to do a FWD (voluntary military service) for at least 7 months or be trained as untrained civilian in the “Ungedient” programme in distinct blocks to not impact your day to day life so much. I would advise to contact your local recruitment office and talk to them, you can get their guidance on your individual situation without signing any commitments.
My problem with that is that I will be fighting for those old fucks sitting in the seats of power making decisions about our lives and living comfortably and safely.
I will die fighting if I have to, but it will be defending my house and my relatives, that’s my compromise, I will not be sent to defend some random piece of land
I am also a millenial, a woman. And I agree with you. Rather fight for liberty than in a dictatorship. I‘ve already lived in a dictatorship the first years of my life, and although a kid, I do remember what was like and my parent did explain to us that there are other things outside the bubble, that there is freedom outside. We were told not to talk about it outside of the family, of course, because of security police.
I like the system that the Swiss have, to have all your population trained. To also know how to handle guns and be working in a team snd whatever they do to train. And they get refreshers every year according to Le Chat: Yes, Swiss citizens who have completed their basic military training are required to participate in annual refresher courses. Specifically, after finishing basic training, individuals remain members of the Armed Forces for nine years and must complete six refresher courses, each lasting three weeks, during this period. These courses ensure that their military skills remain up-to-date and that they are prepared for any potential service requirements. The obligation to serve in the military or alternative civilian service typically applies from age 18 to 30 .„
I would not enter in that age requirement anymore, but I would still love to do it. It is never a bad idea to be prepared, even if you don’t have to use your skills. Also to learn how to sabotage possible invaders, I think it would be invaluable in case of war. Look at Ukraine when they were invaded. There are a lot of stories of normal people fighting greatly against the surprise invasion.
And a war nowadays would look different than what was in WW2. I am far from being an expert, I am none, but the military equipment modern Europe has, is different even of what they sent to Ukraine. I think they sent a lot of old stuff. And having fighter jets and stuff like that, would be more helpful for the fight.
I read the other day someone from Finland, I think, saying that their goal this year is to learn to fly drones, so he could help in case of Russian attack. Fighting for Europe does not mean always being on the frontline with a gun in your hands.
I am Swiss. Let me tell you, our army is a joke. The system is there but it’s only on paper. The leaders are cowardly bureaucrats stuck in 1975 level thinking. It’s an amassment of stupid people who can’t make it in the private sector. No one with a quarter of a brain can stand being in that organisation.
:( Sorry to hear that. As human civilisation, we all lost honor, accountability, pride of a well done job. Sure, there are still a lot of people like that, but it is not the norm. We somehow need a reset, but we are not a computer that is easily resettable. And the systems in place just make people more broken. In my opinion education is everything, but to enforce good education…we are also depending on the current leaders. And there are very few good leaders in this world, because the system breaks you before getting in a position where you can make a change.
I think we also lack small communities. One‘s behaviour gets regulated by the feedback you have from the community. And it also can inspire you tu help and be a better person. In Today’s age, we are so individual, there are no external regulations, there is zero tolerance to being uncomfortable, because you don’t have to. Your life and basic necessities do not depend on your community as before. Most people are not bad, they are just misguided, unhappy and they do not know how to deal with emotions, how to self regulate. And if nobody regulates you with a feedback, yo go wild. I really hope there will be a change in our views now that it looks like Europe is on its own and we have to take care of each others. But I don’t put my hopes up too much.
As human civilisation, we all lost honor, accountability, pride of a well done job.
Decades of neoliberalism glorifying boundless egotism as the ultimate freedom and elevating limitless consumption to the highest human achievement made sure of it. Society has successfully taught people that there are no values beside monetary ones.
I think we also lack small communities.
Definitely. Unfortunately, neoliberalism with all its deregulation has also been systematically destroying the small scale economy that has kept small communities alive. Working class people can’t afford services of local small businesses anymore, and have to look for work further and further away from their homes. In rural areas hit especially hard by this (politically wanted) structural change, combined with systematic neglect of infrastructure and public services due to the cargo cult of austerity, it has already lead to a massive depopulation, leaving behind only the destitute who can barely afford a sense of community, and a handful of wealthy people who enjoy owning a cheap weekend home on the countryside just as much as they love to shit on the community it is located in.
Do you think that joining into literal, dangerous, physical battle is a useful contribution to further that cause? If you think it would be useful, do you think it necessary? Or do you feel it’s simply the only contribution you could offer and you’d feel powerless otherwise?
No there are multiple jobs in military and war needs many different skills. I’m a software developer, the military also uses software so maybe that’s a thing I could do. But if it turns out my physical presence on the front line is more important then that is what I would do. I don’t have a wife or kids, no dependencies.
I’m a millennial who was happy to not be required to go through military training back when it was still a thing but already phasing out. Bundeswehr was a thing for gun fanatics and manly men, nothing that was actually necessary. I was a pacifist. My work ethics today are now close to what Gen Z apparently has. Work is simply not the center of my life anymore.
These days I’m wondering if a 40 year old man (in better shape than my 18 year old self though) can still enlist voluntarily because I want to fight for our European values. I’d rather die in battle than being occupied by power hungry dictators. Not sure this Gen Z guy understands that his work life balance days are over if that happens.
You’re absolutely not too old to join the Bundeswehr. Depending on your life situation you could opt to do a FWD (voluntary military service) for at least 7 months or be trained as untrained civilian in the “Ungedient” programme in distinct blocks to not impact your day to day life so much. I would advise to contact your local recruitment office and talk to them, you can get their guidance on your individual situation without signing any commitments.
My problem with that is that I will be fighting for those old fucks sitting in the seats of power making decisions about our lives and living comfortably and safely.
I will die fighting if I have to, but it will be defending my house and my relatives, that’s my compromise, I will not be sent to defend some random piece of land
It’s one of the last pieces of land where we ourselves still have some power over those old fucks. But democracy is fragile.
I am also a millenial, a woman. And I agree with you. Rather fight for liberty than in a dictatorship. I‘ve already lived in a dictatorship the first years of my life, and although a kid, I do remember what was like and my parent did explain to us that there are other things outside the bubble, that there is freedom outside. We were told not to talk about it outside of the family, of course, because of security police.
I like the system that the Swiss have, to have all your population trained. To also know how to handle guns and be working in a team snd whatever they do to train. And they get refreshers every year according to Le Chat: Yes, Swiss citizens who have completed their basic military training are required to participate in annual refresher courses. Specifically, after finishing basic training, individuals remain members of the Armed Forces for nine years and must complete six refresher courses, each lasting three weeks, during this period. These courses ensure that their military skills remain up-to-date and that they are prepared for any potential service requirements. The obligation to serve in the military or alternative civilian service typically applies from age 18 to 30 .„
I would not enter in that age requirement anymore, but I would still love to do it. It is never a bad idea to be prepared, even if you don’t have to use your skills. Also to learn how to sabotage possible invaders, I think it would be invaluable in case of war. Look at Ukraine when they were invaded. There are a lot of stories of normal people fighting greatly against the surprise invasion.
And a war nowadays would look different than what was in WW2. I am far from being an expert, I am none, but the military equipment modern Europe has, is different even of what they sent to Ukraine. I think they sent a lot of old stuff. And having fighter jets and stuff like that, would be more helpful for the fight.
I read the other day someone from Finland, I think, saying that their goal this year is to learn to fly drones, so he could help in case of Russian attack. Fighting for Europe does not mean always being on the frontline with a gun in your hands.
I am Swiss. Let me tell you, our army is a joke. The system is there but it’s only on paper. The leaders are cowardly bureaucrats stuck in 1975 level thinking. It’s an amassment of stupid people who can’t make it in the private sector. No one with a quarter of a brain can stand being in that organisation.
Sounds a bit like the German military. Does Swiss German also know the term “Zivilversager”?
:( Sorry to hear that. As human civilisation, we all lost honor, accountability, pride of a well done job. Sure, there are still a lot of people like that, but it is not the norm. We somehow need a reset, but we are not a computer that is easily resettable. And the systems in place just make people more broken. In my opinion education is everything, but to enforce good education…we are also depending on the current leaders. And there are very few good leaders in this world, because the system breaks you before getting in a position where you can make a change.
I think we also lack small communities. One‘s behaviour gets regulated by the feedback you have from the community. And it also can inspire you tu help and be a better person. In Today’s age, we are so individual, there are no external regulations, there is zero tolerance to being uncomfortable, because you don’t have to. Your life and basic necessities do not depend on your community as before. Most people are not bad, they are just misguided, unhappy and they do not know how to deal with emotions, how to self regulate. And if nobody regulates you with a feedback, yo go wild. I really hope there will be a change in our views now that it looks like Europe is on its own and we have to take care of each others. But I don’t put my hopes up too much.
Decades of neoliberalism glorifying boundless egotism as the ultimate freedom and elevating limitless consumption to the highest human achievement made sure of it. Society has successfully taught people that there are no values beside monetary ones.
Definitely. Unfortunately, neoliberalism with all its deregulation has also been systematically destroying the small scale economy that has kept small communities alive. Working class people can’t afford services of local small businesses anymore, and have to look for work further and further away from their homes. In rural areas hit especially hard by this (politically wanted) structural change, combined with systematic neglect of infrastructure and public services due to the cargo cult of austerity, it has already lead to a massive depopulation, leaving behind only the destitute who can barely afford a sense of community, and a handful of wealthy people who enjoy owning a cheap weekend home on the countryside just as much as they love to shit on the community it is located in.
I agree!
Do you think that joining into literal, dangerous, physical battle is a useful contribution to further that cause? If you think it would be useful, do you think it necessary? Or do you feel it’s simply the only contribution you could offer and you’d feel powerless otherwise?
No there are multiple jobs in military and war needs many different skills. I’m a software developer, the military also uses software so maybe that’s a thing I could do. But if it turns out my physical presence on the front line is more important then that is what I would do. I don’t have a wife or kids, no dependencies.