- cross-posted to:
- steamdeck@sopuli.xyz
- cross-posted to:
- steamdeck@sopuli.xyz
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As a long time Linux enjoyer, this is honestly the easiest way to get it into the mainstream. People have already seen the success of the steam deck which only reinforces that Linux can be used for gaming better than ever before. As long as people stop using Windows I’m here for it.
Eh, I don’t really care if they stop using Windows, I care that they start using Linux. Dual boot if you need, but more market share for Linux increases the likelihood that devs will support Linux directly.
For sure. I’m doing the dual boot life these days because as much as I want every game to work on Linux there are still some that don’t. And some games just work better on Windows. But at the same time that’s why more devs supporting Linux is what we wanna see.
I’m always curious tochear what games people aren’t able to run in Linux. Which ones are you unable to run?
It’s mostly the problems with anti cheats. The one that comes to mind is Helldivers. I already hated the anti cheat for that game but it’s impossible on Linux. If I was still into Apex Legends I’m sure Easy Anti Cheat would cause some issues but I’m not sure. If Easy Anti Cheat doesn’t work then there are a lot of games to add to that list like Halo and The Finals. I can’t name a lot off the top of my head but Easy Anti Cheat is super popular with devs of online games.
Proton has modules for EasyAntiCheat. I have played Halo on Arch. I don’t know about Helldivers, or Apex. But I absolutely know anticheat is an issue on Linux. Well if you ask me it is more so that these Kernel level anti-cheat mechanisms need to die.
(iirc) Apex worked great up until recently, when they started deliberately banning Linux players.
Helldivers or Helldivers 2? HD2 runs very well in Linux.
Helldivers 2. It kept crashing so I figured it was because of the anti cheat. Perhaps it was just user error and I need to try again.
I’ve played Helldivers 2 for over 400 hours now, and all of that has been on linux.
Look it up on protondb, there’s some launch options you could try.
more market share for Linux increases the likelihood that devs will support Linux directly.
I’m starting to wonder if that’s true. I thought so do but now I’m wondering, especially with compatibility layers like Proton, and even Wine before that, and plenty of tools like Electron, Unity, etc helping to be cross-platform, if the lack of support is rather due to bad habits instilled by years of Microsoft partnership with manufacturers (and thus driver support) implying that drivers must be kept secret and thus Linux support is “bad for business” and that then cascades down to developers then users.
I just installed Linux and holy shit it is so much easier and more straight forward than a windows install. Really wish I would have done it sooner.
It’s funny because while some of it has to do with work to make Linux desktops better, a non-trivial amount of it is how worse Microsoft has made it to deal with Windows.
Because Windows is a data-mining and advertising tool these days, more than anything. So they want to make sure you have a MS account on day 1 and that you have to opt out of all of their services 34 times over before they let you use the damn thing.
Yep, and then have to opt out all over again the next week when an update decides you need to verify you really mean to opt out again…
And if you managed to not have an MS account when you installed, interrupt your login and say “you cannot proceed like you have been doing for the past year without adding an MS account now”, and then look up how to get out of that dialog without doing the MS account…
Yep 100% this kind of shit drove me away a couple years ago. It had nothing to do with Linux getting better and everything to do with Windows getting worse.
Also, some (most) annoyances with installing Linux, still, is primarily due to Microsoft managing to fuck things up in subtle ways.
I had issues with drivers, like I would have to find them somewhere on the internet, trust a random stranger to download and install them. And even then some things required me to launch drivers manually every single time I wanted to use my hardware.
I had issues with games, constant crashes or some games flat out not working. Some even crashing the entire system occationally.
I had issues where my pc would randomly turn on. Going to sleep was funky and would break the system requiring restart. I had to find drivers for my audio systems to get them running.
I had to run around confusing settings and tweak them through different control panels made by random people that largely overlapped to fix basic issues.
Thankfully those issues were solved the moment I installed linux.
Haha you had me, ngl
That said I’ve never had issues with drivers on Windows, like ever.
The last time I tried Linux was probably a good 5 years ago (Mint) and it was good, but I kept having to do what you described, adding repos (had no idea what they were or how they worked) and running command line updates, and it all looked like random code executing on my system. I could definitely see why the average person would be intimidated.
Eventually I gave up when I couldn’t get the most simple thing I did in windows working on Linux, updating my keepass automatically via Gmail.
I’ll have to give Mint another shot, I’m sure it’s come along even more.
Which distro ? I’ve been rocking Bazzite for a year, and holy mother of christ, it requires less maintenance than my smartphone.
I’ve been rocking endeavourOS.
It’s really nice, but I hear great things about bazzite. I’m going to have to take bazzite & steamOS for a spinI installed EOS and I’m liking it.
If you like endeavourOS, CachyOS is really good too. It’s also Arch based and includes a really fast custom kernel. It also has lots of gaming enhancements whatever that means. I’ve been trying to spread the word, not a lot of people seem to know about it. I hear Bazzite is pretty good as well. I definitely need to try it out.
Bazzite for the win!
That’s actually what I went with too. I considered Mint and Pop!OS but really my PC is a gaming machine with a nvidia card. A friend recommended bazzite and its exactly what I was looking for.
I’m also on a gaming/graphics workstation rig with nvidia and fedora runs games windows can’t run no longer and overall is more stable when gaming. Only issue is vr and games that are intentionally disabled on linux via anticheat. But they’re slop anyway other than delta force, which is unplayable due to hackers.
Yeah. Windows install and Linux install quietly switched which was the difficult shitty experience sometime when I wasn’t watching.
As a Mac user I too want SteamOS to succeed, because it will indirectly result in more games that are compatible with macOS via game porting tools and wine.
Honestly windows is just annoying to deal with. I don’t like the ads, and I don’t like my start menu bar being reorganized. I run it in a VM and managing my install keys is a huge pain with their login system.
Linux is awesome, it’s neat watching its developer friendliness result in snowballing market share.
If a SteamOS desktop system gets established, it would be time to add productive software to the ecosystem. Like a web browser, email, libreoffice, maybe some other tools. There are good free versions of all kinds of productivity software, and having them nicely packaged for a system like that would add a lot of value to the SteamOS driven family PC.
FYI, if you switch to Desktop mode on SteamOS, all those applications you listed are available via the included app store that taps into Flathub. SteamOS also ships with Firefox out of the box. I have them all installed on my SteamDeck already.
Wonderful!
A real corporate productivity suite for Linux via SteamOS would be a wonderful thing.
This is why both Google and Microsoft dumped untold billions of dollars into developing Azure (Microsoft) and Workspace (Google). Those OS agnostic corporate productivity suites are meant to keep those companies relevant.
Just a small correction; Microsoft 365, not Azure.
Azure is their cloud computing platform, similar to AWS
Well, yes and no. The main point of compatibility that games should be working towards if they want to run well on macOS is to have ARM versions that work better with Apple’s M-series chips. SteamOS/The Steam Deck are still built for x86 processors which Apple has since stopped supporting.
It’s not impossible to bundle the games in an emulation layer, but it is a bit more involved than something like Proton/WINE, which are just compatibility layers and not emulators, and it comes at the cost of performance.
Rosetta 2 seems pretty good still. It’s not free translation, but it’s viable.
I don’t expect macOS to be the best platform for games, I just want them broadly playable.
Yeah a lot of the proton work is going into
https://developer.apple.com/games/game-porting-toolkit/
Which there’s a cool user friendly experience with
A lot of that work is going directly into
https://developer.apple.com/games/game-porting-toolkit/
So there is certainly overlap, though as you said, architecture emulation is a different beast
That’s the thing though. I bet you Valve is already prototyping an ARM based Steam Deck. It’s the logical next step to improve performance and thermals/battery at the same time.
Not SteamDeck, but there is evidence that Valve is working on x86-ARM emulation for a stand-alone VR Headset.
Linux is awesome, it’s neat watching its developer friendliness result in snowballing market share.
Why not ditch MacOS? Mac’s are just as bad as Windows, just in different ways.
Apple has been progressively neutering root on a path to make a laptop as much of a walled garden as iOS. Not to mention the entirely soldered RAM and SSD and then charges ridiculous premiums to get more
Why not ditch MacOS? Mac’s are just as bad as Windows, just in different ways.
Eh, I disagree. Yes, macOS isn’t great, but calling it “just as bad” is a bit disingenuous. If I had to pick between Windows and macOS, and installing Linux wasn’t an option for whatever reason, I’d take macOS in a heartbeat because it doesn’t spy on users anywhere as much as Windows, most Linux stuff works seamlessly (macports or brew, take your pick), the built-in software is actually pretty decent.
That said, I very much dislike macOS as well (I use it for work), and there’s no substitute for me for Linux.
Doesn’t MacOS phone home every time you run a new or changed executable? https://eclecticlight.co/2020/10/27/xprotect-what-do-we-know-about-it/
Edit: might be that it phones home for each executable if last it run was more than 12 hours ago, given this: https://www.howtogeek.com/701176/does-apple-track-every-mac-app-you-run-ocsp-explained/
Doesn’t Windows as well?
Regardless, Windows recording literally everything I do is worse than logging the apps I open.
For me it strikes the right balance of usability and security.
I’ve been a Mac user for almost 20 years now. I’ve had periods using Linux on desktop, but not for some time now. I’m very much a macOS power user.
The things I use my computer for: desktop publishing via Affinity, photo editing, programming, some app dev, playing mostly older games, and I do a lot of data analysis. There are a few macOS apps I could not live without: Automator, Preview, and I use Apple Numbers a surprising amount (I like that it’s table based and not sheet based).
I also find the right usability and hardware quality makes a huge difference for me. What stopped me before was Linux high DPI support and trackpad quality, but that was years ago.
An example of why I like Mac: I have a script at work that spits out Google cloud buckets in gs: format and I can’t change the script. I set up a simple Automator workflow so now I can right click the url and format it as a link to the bucket viewer in my browser instantly.
I have a ton of these little workflow improvements that I’m sure you could do with Linux but already work well for me.
Mac’s are just as bad as Windows, just in different ways.
They’re absolutely not.
Not to mention the entirely soldered RAM and SSD
Hate to tell you this but this is the direction of the entire industry. Look at the new Ryzen “AI Max” chips. Integrating CPU/GPU/RAM on the same chip just leads to crazy increases in performance and efficiency. As usual Apple paves the path to erosion of consumer choice.
Apple has been progressively neutering root on a path to make a laptop as much of a walled garden as iOS.
I agree it’s a very bad thing in general but it can also be disabled with some simple terminal commands. MS goes out of their way to constantly break any solutions consumers might find to make their systems suck less.
Integrating CPU/GPU/RAM on the same chip just leads to crazy increases in performance and efficiency. As usual Apple paves the path to erosion of consumer choice.
CUDIMM is the socket-able answer to this and it’s rolling out. What’s the excuse for soldering SSDs?
but it can also be disabled with some simple terminal commands.
For now, Apple’s not stupid, they know if they move too fast they’ll piss off too many people so they’re doing it slowly step by step.
CUDIMM is the socket-able answer to this and it’s rolling out.
Rolling out where? As far as I know it’s only ever been installed and sold in a single device. Can’t tell ya why but it is.
What’s the excuse for soldering SSDs?
I don’t have an answer for that one.
For now
If that ever changes I’ll change my argument. I don’t think Apple really cares about the small fraction of users that will bother to mess with it.
Rolling out where? As far as I know it’s only ever been installed and sold in a single device. Can’t tell ya why but it is.
We’re only about 4 months in ATM, it’s quite early
Nonetheless, it’s technically sound so even if it does flop, it will have been for primarily greed reasons rather than because soldering was superior
Ah, I was thinking of CAMM, which came out >2 years ago.
compatible with macOS via game porting tools and wine
How is moltenVK going by the way, assuming you follow that? I originally thought macOS gaming was dead when they ditched OpenGL and declined to support Vulkan, but maybe with layers of shims peoples still make it work.
managing my install keys is a huge pain with their login system.
It’s often easier to activate it with other means even when you have a real key.
(2025 is “The year of the Windows 11 PC refresh,” allegedly)
Wait. Since when has Microsoft’s Windows team been drinking from the same copium jars as us Linux users have for years?
That’s hilarious.
Oh it will be the year of the Windows 11 refresh, there’s no question of that. Untold millions of business PCs will be making the change as Windows 10 goes EoL.
It’s a very different story in the home market. Frankly the only thing holding Windows Gaming in place is decades of increasing personal PC ownership but that ownership / use rate is now declining as normal people transition to using smartphones and tablets.
In just a few short years, ten at most, gaming on Windows will be about as relevant as gaming on Mac. It may still be called “PC Gaming”, you can already see media trying to redefine gaming on SteamDeck and other handhelds as “PC Gaming”, but those games won’t be built around the Windows OS.
This. Family have even ditched laptops for tablets, and businesses would definitely not risk a new eco system just because of 11
Steam is terrified of the Microsoft store. It’s part of why they’re moving to linux
Sure, but Valve is terrified of the Microsoft store for a subtly, but importantly, different reason than why Microsoft should be terrified of Steam OS.
Microsoft should be terrified that Steam OS will destroy their monopoly by making it so users no longer have to use their product.
Valve is terrified that Microsoft will destroy their monopoly by making it so users no longer can use their product.
So in the end, consumers win?
People use steam because it’s better than alternatives, if it dies consumers will lose
Oh I was thinking competition on the market. But yes, Valve is great
Microshit already lost, most windows users just don’t know it yet. Sure microshit will get another 25 years as generations shift… Similar to opinions on israel but the trend is set
Microsoft could also be terrified of how shitty Windows 11 is. I have to think back to Millennium Edition to compare to something this disastrous, but Satya doesn’t care about Windows, Surface, or XBox. Microsoft’s future is M365, Azure, and D365. Big fat high margin Enterprise Agreements since everyone is locked into their proprietary shitty office formats. And they get enterprise problems with audit, identify, access control like few other businesses.
What I don’t know understand is why companies refuse to sell off businesses that they know will die off from their neglect. A shame, except for Windows.
There is nothing to be terrified of for MS, windows can implement mandatory rectal scans to log in and linux wouldn’t break 20% market share.
Linux is already over 15% in India
Microsoft always follows the pattern of good OS, bad OS, good OS, bad OS. We just have to wait for Windows 12 for a good one.
10 was good?
10 sucked ass. It’s the reason I stayed on Windows 7 way longer than I should have.
I did the same, and when I switched I just switched to Linux rather than another Windows version.
Then again I’ve been playing with Linux (and using it professionally on the server side) since the 90s, so am not at all representative of most people out there.
A fresh install of ME was typically fine, the live update usually fucked things up big time.
I’d compare the Windows 11 disaster to Windows 8; only that they released 8.1 in relatively short succession, with most issues actively fixed.
Windows 98 was supported until almost a year after Windows XP’s release, so nobody really had to use Millennium Edition. Windows 10’s support is ending in October and no new version has been announced.
That would be nice, having good competition solves a lot of problems. Plus if steamOS gains enough traction more large game studios may start to specifically support it.
if steamOS gains enough traction more large game studios may start to specifically support it.
Do they have to though? Isn’t “just” running on Linux (mostly done by avoiding weird tricks, say a Windows build from Unity often works) enough?
When most/all multiplayer games start working on Linux that’s when Linux can really start taking off.
It’s the year of the Linux Desktop!!
They do. We’re already there.
The only titles that don’t work are the ones with kernel level anti-cheat, and that needs to die anyway.
Are you serious? Most games can be played on Linux? I don’t care about the kernel anti cheat games, since that shit is not going on my pc anyway
Seems more like about 20% of games. It’s definitely improving but still a long way to go.
I have a Windows PC to play Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen, and more recently Marvel Rivals. We’re still not quite there yet, although it was pretty cool that Baulders Gate worked on Linux.
Both of those games are marked gold on protonDB, so you shouldn’t have to use windows to run them if you want (although marvel rivals apparently needs
SteamDeck=1 %command%in the launch options): https://www.protondb.com/app/3107230 https://www.protondb.com/app/2767030Interesting… thanks for this. I’ll need to look into protondb more; had not heard of it prior to this.
I was a part of the pre-EA access group for Pantheon so my game isn’t a part of Steam. Is this a Steam specific thing?
Proton is certainly “cleaner” to use with Steam, but you don’t have to use Steam to use proton. I’d recommend adding the executable to Steam as a non-Steam game for simplicity. Otherwise you can use Lutris or find a tutorial online to run that specific executable with proton outside of Steam
I’m at an uncomfortable crossroads of knowing enough to hate Microsoft, but not knowing enough to trust myself with switching to Linux. I’m like just barely tech-literate enough to wander into places like Lemmy, but beneath some surface level shit I’m probably one of the dumbest motherfuckers here when it comes to not setting my devices on fire.
So… a ‘Linux for dummies’ sounds exactly like what I need!
Well, there are a lot of newb-friendly distros these days. Some options:
- Linux Mint (any spin) - one of the easiest to get help with online, with minimal compromises
- Fedora - also pretty easy to get help w/ online
- Bazzite - great if you just want to play games; it’s about as close to SteamOS as you get w/o an official release
Any of those should be pretty friendly to users new to Linux, and they go roughly in order from fitness as a regular desktop (top down) to fitness for gaming (bottom up), but any of them can handle gaming and desktop stuff pretty equivalently.
Bazzite is freaking awesome. I started my Linux journey with Arch, then tried Ubuntu, Debian, Fedora, Mint, Zorin, Endeavour and more. Bazzite has been on my PC for a year and it’s been the best experience I had with PCs in my whole life. I freaking love it.
It does look nice. My main concern is the read-only root, which seems annoying to deal with for non-gaming stuff. I’m a dev and sometimes need to install new dependencies and whatnot. But I’m sure there’s a good workflow for that as well.
Aurora (KDE) or Bluefin (gnome) have dev editions. They are based on ublue like Bazzite, but are more dev oriented.
I’ll have to check it out.
I’ve also considered trying the openSUSE MicroOS versions as well (Kalpa for KDE and Aeon for GNOME). I use Tumbleweed on my systems right now, so that would be a natural transition.
I feared making the plunge as well but it was so seamless tbh. Got Linux Mint and it just feels like a newer version of old Windows. Not sure how it’s with other distros, but I find it to be precicely Linux for dummies.
I’d say the difficulty to getting used to new environment was on a similar level to getting from Windows XP to Windows 7. If you can dual boot I recommend just trying it - the water is fine.
This is accurate really. Linux Mint is excellent for people who want to get away from Windows and learn Linux because it looks similar. Bazzite, however, especially the KDE version, honestly looks better than Windows at this point, imo.
In addition to making gaming much much easier, it also has an atomic code core, meaning that all the stuff you will eventually break on Linux Mint by playing around with different programs… and eventually lead to a new Linux user re-installing… is almost non-existent. Programs are installed in their own space with their own dependencies, meaning that they don’t encroach on any other programs using similar drivers, configurations, etc. When those programs are uninstalled, they’re just gone.
So if you can finally game on a Linux distro, not worry so much about borking a linux distro, and it looks and feels both modern and intuitive at the same time…
Why not put in on a spare laptop or something and get some hours in? Microsoft needs some serious pruning and unfortunately they seem immune to criticism that doesn’t come in the way of lost revenue.
Some things that may help you get started:
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All of the risk in changing your computer operating system comes from the potential loss of data. Everything else is replaceable/recoverable, including your original Windows install if needed. You can avoid this risk by backing up your personal data to an external drive, which frankly everyone should be doing anyway because hard drives are consumables.
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You can try Linux with no risk by running it as a live OS. This loads the operating system files into RAM from an external device (typically a USB drive) and makes no changes to the system hard drive. This lets you test your computer’s functionality in Linux without making permanent changes (does my graphics card work? wifi? audio? etc). The mainstream Linux installers do this already for the installation process, but you can just load one up to try things out without running the installation process.
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You don’t have to completely switch off of Windows. It’s fairly easy to install Linux as a dual-boot on an existing Windows system. As long as you have some free space on your hard drive to dedicate to Linux, you can just keep your Windows install and have Linux too. You can even access your files in Windows from the Linux install. All of the mainstream Linux installers have the option for setting up dual-boot during the installation.
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I think one of the biggest hurdles for switching over is knowing what software to use in Linux (how do I edit a document? watch a movie? read a pdf? etc). There are options for basically anything you might want to do, but if you don’t know what you’re looking for you might feel a bit lost. I recommend alternativeto.net for this. You can search for software like Microsoft Office and filter for Linux to get a list of compatible software options that do the same job.
I’m probably one of the dumbest motherfuckers here when it comes to not setting my devices on fire.
I know exactly how you feel. I have wrecked so many OS installs I’ve lost track. I have friends who tell me I have tech problems like no one else. I seem to stumble into edge cases on a higher-than-average basis.
My point is, when I say that everything is recoverable, that’s from experience. I’ve done it enough times to know there’s very little chance of actually making a computer unusable, though it’s relatively easy to lose your data if you’re not paying attention to what you doing - so backups. Always backups.
If you try this a couple times you’ll start to see your computer as something that you have control over, something that you can completely wipe and bring back or rebuild into a different system as you please. Feel free to reach out if you’ve got questions.
You can avoid this risk by backing up your personal data to an external drive, which frankly everyone should be doing anyway because hard drives are consumables.
This is super inconvenient. Better method is to set up a server w/ Syncthing and use that to just sync your Home directory remotely.
Better method is to set up a server w/ Syncthing and use that to just sync your Home directory remotely.
Sure, just set up a server, very convenient. Dude, this advice is for people who have never installed an operating system before.
Like, yeah, if you’re talking about keeping a living backup that is up to date within 30 seconds because you’re doing accounting as a home business and you can’t afford to lose the last 5 minutes of work, then yeah self-hosted file syncing is great. It’s absolutely a better long-term solution for personal data management. But for most people this level of backup fidelity is unnecessary, and a USB drive is a thing you can just buy and start using with no setup effort.
Syncthing can be installed on anything, very easily. All you have to do to make it a “server” is to make sure its connected 24/7.
and a USB drive is a thing you can just buy and start using with no setup effort.
USB drive will be super slow and will be hanging out of whatever it’s attached to. There are many other better options.
This would imply that you have at least two machines. In that case they could just install Linux in the other machine to try it out.
Foa people dabbling in Linux for the first time, with the anxiety of losing their data, it certainly sound like they don’t have 2 machines to run syncthing. Otherwise, why wouldn’t they just copy all their important data to the other machine to avoid the data loss risk?
And sure if that is the case Syncthing is a good solution, but it doesn’t sound applicable in this situation.
In that case they could just install Linux in the other machine to try it out.
I mean if you’re “just trying it out”, you could just use a live USB. You’re probably not saving anything valuable to it anyway.
it certainly sound like they don’t have 2 machines to run syncthing
Can’t understand any reason you would think that.
why wouldn’t they just copy all their important data to the other machine to avoid the data loss risk?
That’s…what I’m suggesting? Syncthing just automates the process.
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I was the same as you about 6 months ago. I installed Bazzite and never looked back. Sure, there might be some quirks but overall my pc works much better. I can even finally use Steam Link reliably!
beneath some surface level shit I’m probably one of the dumbest motherfuckers here when it comes to not setting my devices on fire.
Well… if you actually want to learn, as we ALL did, get yourself a device you can literally set on fire. By that I mean a RPi 3 (probably going for 10 EUR nowadays) or a 2nd hand laptop. If you can’t find that easily, try a virtual machine, if you don’t want to bother give a whirl (with a ad blocker…) to https://distrosea.com/ and come back, risk free.
It’s honestly empowering to learn and it has been relevant for decades (basically since the UNIX days) and STILL is relevant today in the time of the “cloud” where all such commands are still used.
Year of linux desktop, amirite?
Jesus, news outlets love hyperbole, don’t they. We are not even at 5% market share.
I don’t know how long it’ll take desktop Linux to reach 10% market share. Could be a couple of years, could be decades, could be never. But once it reaches 10%, I give it 5 years before it’s over 80%.
Gaming is only a fraction of what we need to get people to move away from Windows.
Yes, it’s only a fraction, but most of the rest is going to SaaS through web browsers or mobile apps, because companies get to control and force subscriptions that way, but has a side effect of targeting a browser as a platform rather than an OS. Gaming in browser is more in the pain point of browsers, so it’s a use case that demands OS.
Besides office software and better
NVIDIA driverhardware support in general, what else do you think is necessary?I can’t speak for everyone, but many hardware peripherals software for configuration and control don’t work.
For gamers that could be companion software for RGB and mwcro customization on keyboards, controllers and other peripherals too.
For myself, it would be music production software (VSTs and otherwise.) I know about different compatability layer softwares out there, but it’s a band-aid.
I made the switch to Arch and these 2 things have been my struggle.
For my music hardware I have run a windoes VM with virt-manager/qemu with USB passthrough. That sort of works, but it’s an extra thing to fuss with.
I even went down the rabbithole of trying to use usbip to get wine to recognize my hardware, with no success of wine seeing the bound port.
Its not flawless but I’m getting there.
I will not go back to windows. Even if it means changing my habits and use cases.
companion software for RGB
Yeah, that’s the one thing I lost when switching to Bazzite. I’m on an Acer Predator and I’m stuck with auto fan controls (which work fine) and I can’t customize RGB. There’s options to replace the Predator Sense program to get that working on Linux but I just don’t care enough to mess with it.
I also tried setting up a VFIO machine for lack of good VR support (oculus🙄) and I cannot see a normal user doing that (Tbf it’s Meta’s fault, not Linux. But I think it still ties into my argument)
And I heard basically everything except ardour and LMMS are broken or buggy on Linux (I’m no composer so I could be wrong)
God, I wish I could permanently use Linux (NixOS❤️) but it’s just not ready yet.
And don’t even get me started on NVIDIA 🥲
I haven’t tried VR in Linux, I did sell my oculus, and haven’t gotten a replacement.
I use Reaper, and it’d fantastic. It’s more so the plugins that are an issue since VSTs aren’t supported too well on Linux. There are peripherals that don’t play well as well, but that’s vendor specific. My Line 6 gear for example.
I am full time on Arch. Ditched Windows 6+ months ago, and i won’t turn back. It has come with issues, but I’ve treated like a learning experience.
I am using an EVGA 3090 FTW on Arch, and if I had known when building my PC that Nvidia has issues, I would have gone the AMD route. But, I have gotten my 3090 usable, quite well actually with some tweaking.
I had issues using Wayland at first, but driver updates have helped.
I have wanted to check out NixOS, but I haven’t yet.
I haven’t tried VR in Linux
Valve Index, SteamVR, install, setup, play, no tinkering.
Now… if one does want to buy hardware from Meta (… which sadly I understand, it’s so damn cheap) and Meta refuses to support Linux, well, it’s kind of a decision on the buyer. Still, if one still want to tinker, because they have the hardware now, plenty of good solutions listed on https://lvra.gitlab.io/ e.g. ALVR (very convenient nowadays) or WiVRn and more.
Many can’t buy indexes as you said. I love the idea of them, but they’re just too damn expensive. On amazon (we have no official shipping in my country) they cost 10,000 RIYALS. That’s about ~3-4000 USD. No thanks, i’d do fine without VR then. and the mq 3 is about 3,000 riyals, or less than 1,000 dollars.
ALVR is pretty okish. Last time i tried it it was very buggy. But that was a long time ago, i don’t know how it is now. Last time i checked i couldn’t use wivrn, but i’ll try it now, thanks
The ability to stream media from legit paid sources. (Netflix, Comcast, max, disneyplus, prime, I don’t know where the list is currently, but anything that bitches about user agent.)
TPM.
The ability to play multiplayer games that rely on anti-cheat ( seriously, make Linux a hit with the fortnite crowd and the upcoming generation will think of windows as boomerware )
The ability to use an HDMI cable at full speed. (It’s the leading A/V cable standard and the only one some people understand. )
Then there’s the stuff I’m unsure of the current status of but that I know was a problem once upon a time: Online banking, online doctor stuff, encrypted emails from mainstream providers, you know, anything that could qualify as “every day stuff” that works out of the box on windows and yet sometimes requires complicated (for grandma) setup on Linux.
The ability to stream media from legit paid sources. (Netflix, Comcast, max, disneyplus, prime, I don’t know where the list is currently, but anything that bitches about user agent.)
Agreed, that’s critical. That said, I periodically subscribe to all of those, and all of the ones I’ve tried in the last year on Firefox on Debian, have worked perfectly. If there’s any left that still don’t, I haven’t tried encountered them.
The ability to stream media from legit paid sources. (Netflix, Comcast, max, disneyplus, prime, I don’t know where the list is currently, but anything that bitches about user agent.)
I thought all you needed was browser DRM to run those? Idk, I don’t use streaming services 🏴☠️
And Isn’t TPM supported on Linux? It’s been in the kernel since 3.20, no?
As for anti cheat, it’s a bitch to deal with, I agree. Same with HDMI,I think DP is superior but people should have freedom to make their one choices.
And the rest? Idk. I use a web browser for all online things, from mail, to banking; so it doesn’t matter whether I’m on Linux or not.
You raise some great points though. The average user isn’t going to use workarounds or alternatives, so we should focus on actually solving the problem instead of saying use this instead.
Office software is covered by LibreOffice.
Just general software and hardware support. And ease of use. So basically everything.
Sadly, LibreOffice isn’t up to the task.
However, more and more this stuff is done in browser anyway.
What does libreoffice not do? And what about onlyoffice?
Basically when I open up an MSOffice file, if there’s anything vaguely complicated it will not look like the way the office user intended.
Being done in the browser means it’s being done in the cloud which I’m personally not okay with. LibreOffice works well enough for my use.
Yeah, but the O365 crowd is pretty much 99% tied to the cloud anyway they slice it (MS really wants you to work exclusively in OneDrive).
LibreOffice may be able to handle it’s own documents fine, but interoperate with an MS Office user and it frequently is unable to be consistent.
Ease of use (and general software too) seems to slowly getting better, but the real bottleneck, i think is hardware support.
No matter how much software there is, or how easy it is to use Linux, there’s no point if your GPU is extremely buggy and broken on Linux. which seems to be a huge problem for many NVIDIA users, including me :/
The main hiccup for hardware support is GPU support, and as a side effect of the bigger business being in messing with LLMs and that use case preferring Linux, GPUs are getting more Linux attention.
For example, nVidia drivers went years and years with a status quo of “screw open source, compile our driver and deal with the limitations”. Only after they got big in the datacenter did they finally start working towards being fully open in the kernel space (though firmware and user space still closed source, but that’s a bit more managable)
Fuck nvidia, each big update that’s supposed to "fix everything " explicit sync cough cough always brings me a boatload of new issues. I’m going for amd/Intel next time.
Yeah I mean especially for professionals, most hardware requires special software for it to function properly and they don’t bother making it available for Linux.
especially for professionals, most hardware requires special software for it to function properly and they don’t bother making it available for Linux.
That’s entirely use case specific. CUDA is actually used more on Linux than on Windows (I don’t have data, but even Azure by Microsoft runs on Linux…) so for e.g. NVIDIA hardware for professionals the support is better there.
It’s not. But I wasn’t referring to GPUs anyway, I was referring to peripherals. Audio equipment, drawing pads, cameras, etc.
But it’s apparently the easiest, since Valve is already working on it. You just need to shift a significant portion of technical users to Linux and the other use-cases will follow.
Is gaming even much of a problem anymore on Linux now? All my problems come from NVIDIA or oculus BS, but not from proton or wine. Sounds like there isn’t much to perfect anymore :^)
Absolutely:
- lots of games don’t work
- anti-cheat games in general still don’t work, and that’s a massive market
- some games have terrible perf through Proton
That said, most games work fine on Linux, but the ones that don’t are pretty popular.
Most anticheat isn’t a technical issue though, it’s just companies blocking Linux.
I never said it was. I said it’s a problem that limits Linux adoption.
Oh, i forgot about anticheat, i dont play MP sorry. I also can’t tell when a bug is from NVIDIA or Proton, seems i conflated the two too much.
No worries. I also don’t play MP, so the vast majority of games just work for me. However, we’re talking about broad market adoption, not you or me.
I’d say, having to install ProtonGE to make a game work is still quite a hassle.
I think Steam Machines would be successful now.
I believe it could be killer casual home PC if they had clearly stated specs with expected power draw and output. Not everything needs to run at 240 Hz in 4k res… as steamdeck showed. It has too low res though for desktop PC, so new steam machine should be a bit beefier than just rebranded deck.
I could be horribly wrong, but with a disgruntled console market and SteamOS’s success on the Steam Deck, a plug and play device along with a controller could be very successful at capturing departing console users and it would really give a kick start to linux gaming.
I know there’s lots of people who want to try PC gaming, but are not sure how to or are scared to do so, a Steam Machine would be the perfect device for them, they could just plug it into their TV and be gaming in minutes, just like the simplicity of the Deck.
Microsoft has already lost the console wars, and now it starts to look like they might even lose the PC wars. Is there any future for Microsoft gaming? It feels like the only thing they got going for them is Call of Duty.
Is there any future for Microsoft gaming?
Yes, in the “Netflix of Gaming” Game Pass, they’ve already been pivoting on it more and more. They know they’re losing their hardware dominance
Only a matter of time IMO before they work on getting Game Pass games on Linux. Which would be great because I got the bulk of my games from Game Pass these days lol
The only real limitation for Game Pass on Linux is market share. There’s no way Microsoft passes up that money if Linux gaming gets big enough.
True. When they start feeling threatened, they will bite as hard as they can.
I hope the installer will be so easy that even non-gamers with little to no technical knowledge will be able to download it, double-click, and follow the wizard then end up with SteamOS installed. That would be the dream.
Bazzite is exactly that. Dead easy.
Don’t you need to put it on a USB-stick first? That’s the biggest hurdle, I think. Then getting into the BIOS and choosing which device to boot from. Those 2 steps are the ones that kick most normal people out.
Defo The biggest hurdle I think, not to mention making the USB bootable with additional software. Dead easy for us, but grandma would never have been able to wrap her head around that.
And Tt be fair, this process is the same for Windows. The only difference is people purchase their pc’s with Windows pre-installed for them. I do wish more people got to experience the difference in installing Linux vs Windows though, bet it would be an eye-opener to many.
Also, I wonder what year stores will ask customers what OS they would like installed on their PC.
They probably give it the side eye every time it comes up
