What the fuck are the studios gonna do, make movies and shows without actors?
Highlights: The negotiating committee of the actors’ union, SAG-AFTRA, told its members on Saturday that it had received a “Last, Best and Final Offer” from the major entertainment studios as a strike that has brought much of Hollywood to a standstill continued for a 114th day.
“We are reviewing it and considering our response within the context of the critical issues addressed in our proposals,” the negotiating committee said. They did not say when they would respond to the offer, which came after an hourlong video conference call that included top studio executives.
Included in the offer was a wage increase that could be the highest in four decades, according to a person familiar with the offer who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the negotiations. The studios also offered the actors a new way to determine residuals for streaming programs based on performance metrics, and protections on artificial intelligence, including consent and compensation requirements. The studios also offered an increase to the pension and health funds.
As a Teamster union steward, any time I hear about a last, best, final, I immediately get super skeptical. Which one is it? Last? Best? Or final?
Probably not best. Probably not last. Final? Doubtful.
Whatever the offer, triple it, then double that. SAG has these motherfuckers by the balls. Double the triple double. Fuck them all.
What’s the difference between last and final?
Last week I went out for dinner. I hope this week isn’t my final week, that would be sad.
Its the last version ist the one you just got, the final the one with the filename “offer_final_final_nowreally_2.0_final_actuallyfinal.pdf”
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While I doubt they will close, I could easily see them stopping for 6 months so the strikers have to find new employment, then opening to those who will take a similar or smaller offer. Hell, buy a couple of hundred of peoples likeness for a few thousand each and don’t bother reviewing actors.
ha, isnt it always the last offer? i mean, if it wasnt they would wait for the next!
its like finding your keys, theyre always in the last place you look!
It’s just awkwardly worded. The SAG reported they’ve received an offer from the studio, in which they studio called “the last, best, and final” offer they’re (sag) going to get.
It’s blatantly untrue, though. If the actors don’t accept it are the studios going to just close up shop? No. So it’s absolutely not the final offer unless they accept it.
Agreed. It’s just studio bravado. “THIS IS MY LAST, BEST, AND FINAL OFFER PARKER!” as Spiderman continues and JJJ keeps paying despite his previous outburst.
Yeah, it’s just bullshit. They said the same thing during the writer’s strike before making two more offers.
Not if you keep looking 🤔
That was a Jeff Foxworthy bit.
“Hey, Jeff, you find your wallet?”
“Yeah, but I’m still lookin’ for it. Just in case we’re livin’ in a parallel universe.”
you keep looking for things after you find them? i guess everyone needs a hobby
I’ve been known once or twice to find my keys (or phone, that wrench, etc.) get distracted immediately after, then go back to looking for thembecause that’s what I remember doing before I got distracted while they’re right there in my hand.
You could arguably say that I re-lost them and started a new search, but I think it’s funnier to say I kept looking after it’s been found.
It’s called ADHD, I sometimes go looking for my phone while it’s right in my hand.
I kept looking and going YOUR keys, too!
I will do it for $1m and this is my 4th to last offer. 😤
Please help us help the studio executives find a better offer by buying some swag here.
swagaftra
Oh look, it’s fake Margot Robbie again
You leave our Margot alone!
Pretty sure that’s the real Margot Robbie, check their post history! It’s really cool that Margs is part of the community!!
No. Hollywood actors don’t need more money.
That’s true for some of them, but not all actors are A-listers
I mean, even D-list actors don’t need more money.
a) the Ulmer scale (A–D) hasn’t been used in nearly 15 years, and even then it was out of date
b) panel show and reality TV appearances (The ‘D’ section of the Ulmer) aren’t really the major concern here
Tell me the amount of money you think I got paid for a night shoot for a single ep appearance (not co-star) on BET?
Then tell me how much you think I’ve earned in residuals from it since?
Say more about this? I’ve seen a few good pieces about acting compensation over the years, but nowhere near as many as I’d have liked.
How much did you get paid, assuming it’s not hypothetical? What do panel and reality shows pay? I assume residuals are $0, but I know nothing. What’s the real story here?
“Guest Star”, unnamed character, end roll credits only, 1 ep, about 5 or 6 lines. Just over a grand before fees, about USD$800 after, not factoring year end taxes. No residuals as I wasn’t a principal and it wasn’t full SAG.
You got paid $800 for one-night’s work and 5 or 6 lines?
And still complaining? Lol. Get a grip.
How much did you get paid for 1 night of being in front of a camera?
Also, I don’t really care about the specific ulmer scale. It’s a good tool to discuss the popularity of actors, you can replace D-list with E, F, G, etc etc. until the point makes sense to you.
I mean you were the one who used it, so if you don’t care about how popular an actor is, why do you think they should get paid less?
Lets even the field: What work do you do, and why should you get a pay cut starting tomorrow?
“Final offer”
Sure…
They already did, it’s called “reality” television and it’s why we have the show COPS. However bored people have more entertainment options this time around, and more direct sources of information about the strike.
So does this mean actors will leave Hollywood en masse, buy their own cameras and equipment, use open source CGI or just rip off the bigwigs’ programs, and we can go back to making movies for art and not for capitalist commodities and mindless propaganda?
Hahaha… haha… no
Were the WGA happy with their deal? I also would like to see this end as the theaters are running out of material, next will be a Ben Shapiro rom-com.
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That’s not what it says. Different part of the sentence.
studios also offered the actors a new way to determine residuals for streaming programs based on performance metrics, and protections on artificial intelligence, including consent and compensation requirements.
Residuals based on performance metrics and protections from having their voices and likenesses used in AI generated content. Two different things.
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A computer program written by humans with auditable code to calculate payroll is very different from a computer program using AI models that no human on Earth could feasibly comprehend via analysis performing the same task.
AI can and has been “tweaked” in order to fit a specific agenda in the past (see: social media algorithms in general, especially Facebook’s social experiments), and it will be used to do the same in the future. The thing about AI is that direct human-caused motives for its actions are hard to prove.
Want a specific rate? Put it in the contract.
Studios can’t just say “AI” and get around the agreed terms.
How has this comment not been down voted to oblivion? Homie has the reading comprehension of a gibbon
hourlong
Shame, NYT. Learn to English.
Get content from other countries or get non union actors to work on your projects
Yeah! I’m looking forward to seeing Bandernick Comberbush and Elozibeth Ilson in the next Dr. Strange movie. It’s not like anything in the previous movies endeared me to those characters.
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Actually Korean and Japanese dramas are very popular on Netflix. With Blackl pink and bts being so popular along with anime lots of younger people watch them.
As new Hollywood content Dries up people will look for either older content they haven’t consumed yet or alternative content like k dramas
As for people willing to scab. There are other countries out there without the unions. Many of those countries have a high level of English speakers that would likely love a Hollywood pay check for a while. There are also many people in America who wouldn’t care and if they can get a movie or TV show that could pay hundreds of thousands vs retail or service industry jobs it could be worth it even for a short time.
What the fuck are the studios gonna do, make movies and shows without actors?
What are actors going to do? Just star in avant-garde productions because they can’t work with any popular IPs?
That would mean more effort for less money.
Why do you think this is about working with popular IPs? This is about day players working two jobs to survive and not even making enough money to qualify for SAG-AFTRA health insurance because pay is so shit, coupled with the fact that the studios want to steal their likeness and use it in perpetuity using CG.
Why do you think this is about working with popular IPs?
How is this even a question? I was very clear. But to be clearer for those of you in the back, what are the actors going to act in if they can’t act in the movies which the studios own the rights to?
Working two jobs to survive
Okay, bud. I don’t think you know what the word ‘survive’ means. It’s not like these people are ‘surviving’ off of peanut-butter and jelly sandwiches. Try to learn the difference between ‘needs’ and ‘wants’ before you make this about ‘survival.’
coupled with the fact that the studios want to steal their likeness and use it in perpetuity using CG.
Steal their what? You mean copy?
It’s not like these people are ‘surviving’ off of peanut-butter and jelly sandwiches.
Yes, they literally are. Famous movie stars are paid millions. Day players are paid shit. Maybe work in the industry before you talk about things you know nothing about.
Day players are paid shit. Maybe work in the industry before you talk about things you know nothing about.
What? So you’re telling me they’re actually eating bologna and cheese sandwiches on a regular basis because they can’t afford anything else?
They must not also be subscribing to any streaming services, right? Probably doing a lot of shopping at Walmart? They must not travel much, either.
Or are they trying to live as luxurious a life as possible (like everyone else) while doing as little work as possible? (like everyone else)
Like I said, learn the difference between ‘needs’ and ‘wants’ before you try to make this about survival.
What? So you’re telling me they’re actually eating bologna and cheese sandwiches on a regular basis because they can’t afford anything else?
Yes.
They must not also be subscribing to any streaming services, right?
Yes.
Probably doing a lot of shopping at Walmart?
Yes.
Or are they trying to live as luxurious a life as possible (like everyone else) while doing as little work as possible? (like everyone else)
No.
Minimum requirement for SAG-AFTRA health insurance is $26,000 a year. Thousands do not make enough to qualify and do not have health insurance.
If you think making less than $26,000 a year and not having health insurance is living a luxurious life, you must be posting from your tent under a bridge right now.
You forget. They’re not just making less than $26K, they’re also living in LA.
Some of them in their cars.
Not every actor is George Clooney you twat. Most of them are working in cafes and coffee shops on the side
Nice hyperbole.
SAG-AFTRA has 170,000 voting members. Only a small fraction makes more than a million.
Nice retort. It’s okay to be wrong friend, we’re all here to learn and grow.
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You’re mad I called out greed for what it is.
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I highly doubt this for one big reason: The courts have already ruled that AI generated content isn’t eligible for copyright protection.
Suppose a studio managed to make a Big AI Action Franchise using only AI. They wouldn’t be able to copyright any of the movie. This would mean that people could download and share it freely. Streaming services could put it online without needing to pay the studio that “made” the film. Movie theaters could get a copy online and show it instead of paying for copies.
A copyright free AI Movie would be a revenue disaster. And we know that if there’s one thing the studios care about, it’s money.
Okay? Where’s that line? Do we need one voice actor? A human “director”? Trust capitalism to find the limit. Also the judiciary is looking pretty compromised these days. There’s a good chance the corporations bat their eyes at the judges and suddenly the studio’s rights are recognized but not any individual creators.
That line is whatever you want to copyright.
So if you make an AI generated movie and then add one voice actor, then I can copy and sell everything except the voice actor.
I can copy the movie replacing the voice actor with another, edit them out entirely, write and sell a novelization, use the images from your movie to make action figures and T shirts…
Copyright is essentially per-element, so everything that was exclusively AI generated is free-for-all because embedded human expression is a hard requirement for copyright protection
Interesting, I did not know that.
Very soon is still 10 years out, but you aren’t wrong.
Ironically this will level the playing field for truly good and creative writing, but will also generate a fuck ton of “crap”
It’s gonna be an interesting ride.
10 years out is still very optimistic…
I’d be surprised if there’s a movie in 2033 that had absolutely zero input from a human, let alone a popular one and definitely not the vast majority of movies.
Even 20 years is probably optimistic.
Sure, but in 10 years, someone will be able to tell ai “make me a movie about cowboys where x happens” and it’ll make a script. And we’ll be able to ask ai to make a cgi scene where x happens.
It will drastically shrink the workforce required to do it.
That usually leads to more products, not fewer workers.
I wish AI would take over 90% of my job, production would go though the roof.
I’m quite fine with a huge number of crap movies being generated if it also means that the good stuff comes along with it. Sturgeon’s law is inescapable so anything that increases the raw amount of movie being made works in my favor.
There is no way that completely AI generated movies will be the majority of content that people actually watch and talk about in the next 50 years. Yes, it will take over a lot of the tedious parts of filming and will probably make up a significant portion of a lot of movies, like any kind of automation does.
Any attempts to AI generate a script for a full movie is going to be gibberish without human intervention, actually doing the right emotion for the right lines, and action scenes that aren’t a train wreck are going to be comedic levels of crap for a very, very long time.
Humans can barely pull all of those off and what is the AI going to learn from when most of the current movies are crap? Hell, I will be impressed when AI can create a 10 minute short that is coherent and I don’t see that happening before 2050.
Any attempts to AI generate a script for a full movie is going to be gibberish without human intervention
How so? It’s super easy to get ‘AI’ applications to do random stories based on loose ideas. Scripts are easy, especially so if you look at the garbage being pumped out on Netflix.
It’s my understanding that some movies are already doing big pieces of it already.
A lot can change in 50 years.
And if people are happy with superhero movies they’ll be happy with AI content.
Your understanding is like that of a dry spaghetti
K
???
“These people will be replaced one day, so let’s not pay them fairly now” is not the good argument you think it is.
That’s awesome, why would we need the studios then? I can just generate my own movies. But until then maybe we can compensate actors fairly and the studios can also live on until we don’t need them anymore.
That’s awesome, why would we need the studios then? I can just generate my own movies.
Fuck yeah! But I’m sure there will be some legal fuckery to keep this out of most people’s reach.
If AI can write, direct, act, and stage the movie then what is the production company for?
If everything can be done by computer, then one small shop can type the idea into some cloud service and spit out a movie just as easily as Disney.
Sure, for a couple years things might be proprietary, but just like every other software innovation, it’ll quickly trickle down to everyone else and then the only thing left for a studio to do is marketing.
but I thought the supreme court has already deemed AI as unenforceable copyright. so anything they do could just be reproduced for free/cheap, so not really a sustainable idea?
if that happens hollywood as we know it’s over anyways. if anyone in their basement can just AI generate a whole ass movie, they will. hell you could make your own at home with a good enough GPU
hell you could make your own at home with a good enough GPU
You can literally already do this in various video game engines for the past two decades, some can even automate your animations like Unreal 3 &4 or Source Engine
Their feedback loop will turn into copying a copy real quick. And the moment AI puts any hurt on any industry their lobbyists will get copyright updated and fuck AI sideways.
This is all assuming a single AI produced thing isn’t a horror show top to bottom which is a tall order.
Kaufman already commented on this by saying that most drivel shat out by Hollywood could be done by AI anyways.
It’s rare you see something original and good. Most people won’t know whether the next 10 marvel movies are written by AI because it’s all ad-lib crap anyways.
He specifically likened it to eating fast food your entire life and thinking it’s normal because you haven’t had anything else.
Ai will just reduce creativity to a mass of dull grey.
I hope you feel ashamed when AI dies just like the VCs’ last interest, crypto and NFTs :)
