The most important thing I’ve learned from discussions around this conflict is that about 95% of the chucklefucks involved are not equipped to discuss it and should shut the fuck up, myself included
Its really not that complicated: 2 million civilians can’t be held accountable for a terrorist groups doings.
What do you think Israel should be doing?
I keep seeing this question and I’m in disbelief anyone is actually parroting this in good faith.
Not genocide? Can they not do genocide? There are a million different options to combat terrorism but right wing governments only know how to send in shock troops into civilian populations. Just because these assholes are assholes doesn’t mean this is the only option.
So hamas’ should just get a free pass?
They were warned to go to the South and most.of them did. Why doesn’t Egypt let in the gazans?
They were warned to go to the South and most.of them did.
Then they were bombed along the way, couldn’t take shelter in the south and had to go back.
They were afraid of bombing on the route to safety so they returned to continued bombing.
Makes sense.
It’s not a wall of bombs on the border and you’re at risk either way.
Preface: I do not know enough of this subject or conflict to speak authoritatively.
If they were told to leave their homes and take a certain path to avoid being bombed, trusted that advice but were bombed on the “safe” path anyway by the very people who told them they would be safe if they took said path, why should they continue to trust whoever told them that?
Furthermore, if there were bombs dropping on and/or around you no matter what you did or who you listened to, simply for existing in the wrong place and at no fault of your own, wouldn’t you rather at least be in the “comfort” of your own home?
How do you know this? Is it from the say people who said their was a hospital bombing ? They lie about everything. I’m not saying I know for sure but I am skeptical. It is possible some people were bombed but there are many many people who evacuated to the South
This is a report relying pal reporting, after the hospital thing I will definitely not take it at face value, and none the less they started a war.
This is not disputed. Why is the default assumption that Palestinians are lying and Israelis are not?
Everyone needs to take a step back and look at their own biases on this issue
Great job on stereotyping an entire population of peoples as liars. 👍
And downplaying the loss of innocent lives to boot.
It is “possible” that some were bombed? I guess as long as only some innocent people were bombed everything is ok. After all “many many” were safely uprooted from their homes and evacuated south. Hooray…
I doubt this will sink in but I have to try. There have definitely been innocent lives lost from both sides of this conflict and every one of them is a tragedy. I’m not advocating for either side here because everyone involved in the loss of innocent lives sucks. I don’t have a magical solution either so don’t bother asking. Innocent people have already, and will continue to die in this conflict. Don’t try to make it seem like innocent casualties aren’t a big deal.
So you would do nothing and let terrorists get away with it
There’s a very wide range of options between “doing nothing” and “intentionally bombing civilians”
They’re not intentionally bombing civilians, you are repeating about. Hamas’ attacks civilians and hides behind civilians
The answer isn’t to indiscriminately just level entire neighborhoods.
I agree, but even a surgical operation would cause civilian deaths. You can’t deny that there would be costs to civilians
Yeah, why bother trying to minimize civilian casualties, especially if it sounds like work.
Israel could start with restoring the internationally recognised borders. That’s one war crime down.
By internationally recognized you mean recognized by the Muslim community.
Up until 1967 Egypt controlled gaza and Jordan the west bank and there was no talk of peace, the line has always been there can be no state of Israel in any form. Within the last 20 years pals have been offered states on the 1967 borders and refused. The Oslo accords which included incremental steps to peace led to nothing but terrorism, all the aid pals receive they use for terrorism. They have explicitly unanimously said for decades that they will fight Israel to the death and have not made any offers or concessions to peace and you want to just these Islamic fundamentalist to behave if they let them into Israel? Do you know the history of Lebanon. You are native if you think you can trust hamas’, ISIS… Did you not see hamas on TV saying they didn’t target civilians in their attacks?
By internationally recognized you mean recognized by the Muslim community.
Bruh there is literally a UN resolution calling for Israel’s retreat to 1967 borders.
The UN is not the arbitrator of morality.
Before 1967 the arabs refused to accept the state of Israel and launched a war to destroy it in 1967 so they lost the land. The land is not held for them in perpetuity to attack and attack… If they want peace they have to give in peace, if they attack them they should be attacked, it is simple.
No one should be kept in prison but you keep a murderer in prison because of what they’ve done.
At this point you will say, well what about what Israel did… And I promise you if you go back pals have instigated every conflict. They are unwilling to live in peace with non Muslim, they follow a fascist Islamic ideology and are explicit about it. The jews , who are the natives of the land, have repeatedly shown a willingness to live in peace with arabs, with a pal state and with arabs in the Jewish state. During the Oslo peace negotiations they talked about putting Arab areae of Israel under the PLO and the Israeli arabs absolutely refused, Arabs living in Israel have better quality of life than anywhere in the Arab world, Arab countries are corrupt theocracies, Israel is a liberal democracy , this is why the fascist Muslims hate it, this is what they are talking about when they say ‘european colonialsim’, that it’s not a fascist Muslim theocracy
So since you’re a massive moron I don’t plan to engage with you much longer, but lemme say this: Netenyahu’s election platform is and has been for thirty years not making peace with Palestinians. He’s actively sabotaged the Palestinian peace movement over and over to prevent it from happening.
And good job changing the goalposts.
The UN proposed partition in 1947, Palestinians refused.
The US proposed a two state solution in 1993, Palestinians refused
What the fuck? What the actual fuck?
1947 is its own mess, but it was Israel (specifically Netenyahu) who called off the Oslo accords.
Do you believe those are the only two options?
It’s a good thing they’re very clearly not being held accountable, then.
Don’t read the news much do ya?
Yep, people like to look and see black and white, but situation is very complex.
Is a roller coaster when you start learning more about it, but it followed:
- Israel is supported by my country so they are the good guys
- Jews came from Europe and took land from them, and keep them in open prison, also killing them, including children, now they are bombing civilians, many innocent people are dying
- oh wait it actually it wasn’t exactly Palestinian land until recently, Jews are technically Palestinians that were run to Europe by Arabs. The Palestinians also don’t want any compromise and won’t stop until they eradicate every single Jew and the entire land will be Arab. (here’s where I’m and I’m sure there’s more)
Oh the fuck this is so complex, and the worst thing is there isn’t any way solution in sight because at least one side doesn’t want any compromise.
I saw comment and I believe it is most accurate of this situation. There won’t be a peace until Palestinians will start loving their children more than they hate Jews.
Again, I don’t support what Israeli government is doing, they do kill innocent people in the process, but Palestinians aren’t exactly greatest neighbors either. The countries that in the past accepted them as refugees ended up having civil wars started by them.
the Jewish Diaspora started with the Romans. The Arabs have historically treated Jews better than Christians.
You misinformation only helps to muddy the waters.
Maybe better than Europeans but not ‘well’ there have been discriminatory laws in many Muslim countries over the years and most Muslim countries have ethnically cleaned their countries of Jews, Jewish communities in Iraq, syria etc… Pre date islam.
And of course under ottoman rule their were laws against Jews immigrating to palestine
And Iran (even though not Arab) is the only country outside Israel to reverse reserve a seat in parliament specifically for a Jewish representative.
You mean reserve?
Oops!! Yes, I do.
oh wait it actually it wasn’t exactly Palestinian land until recently, Jews are technically Palestinians that were run to Europe by Arabs. The Palestinians also don’t want any compromise and won’t stop until they eradicate every single Jew and the entire land will be Arab. (here’s where I’m and I’m sure there’s more)
This is misinformation. Even Hamas said they want a two-state solution. Fucking Hamas. Meanwhile Israel… Well you can look up Netenyahu’s position on the conflict yourself.
Oh the fuck this is so complex, and the worst thing is there isn’t any way solution in sight because at least one side doesn’t want any compromise.
Yes, the Israeli government.
Yes, the Israeli government.
Tbf, aside from lobbing missile into other country, Hamas has to bear some blame here. If they would recognize Israel as a country, the conflict will likely turn its tide. That is the compromise they wouldn’t take.
If they would recognize Israel as a country, the conflict will likely turn its tide.
I’m not sure how that would happen. There have been two ceasefires with Hamas that fell apart because Israel didn’t lift the blockade as promised, even as Hamas followed it for months on end.
We already know Netenyahu’s position on Palestine; he’s not exactly trying to hide it, and the West Bank is currently being colonized (up to and including pogroms) by Israel so it’s not like peace is working either.
Are you old enough to remember the Olso accords and the peace process? Pals have been offered states numerous times, they don’t want it , they want to fight, every resource they use for terror. Israel is just supposed to make concessions until the pals come around to peace ? They will not.
You don’t understand the mindset, if you lived in any Muslim country particularly in the Midwest you would find things very difficult, particularly if you are a women, or gay, or a non Muslim. They will kill a woman who doesn’t wear her scarf, forget about talking to men… these people are fascist in a way that you do not understand
You just don’t put out statements calling their country illegitimate - it’s not rocket science.
And while we’re on the subject of rocket science, stop fucking launching rockets at Israeli civilians
No one is defending Hamas shooting rockets at Israel, who has an Iron Dome to protect them anyway.
The PLO recognized Israel. What was the result?
Because by then all the ball will be on Netanyahu’s court. When Hamas announce their new charter, US made it clear that if it doesn’t include recognizing Israel as a country then they will not have a dialog. Of course, at that time there’s Trump so it won’t work regardless, and now it’s too late.
Because by then all the ball will be on Netanyahu’s court.
It’s been for a long time now. Netenyahu and his ilk have made it very clear they don’t want a Palestinian state. Like they’re turning it into an election platform. The PLO recognized Israel in preparation for the Oslo Accords, and what happened? What’s the state of the PNA now?
Again, this presupposes that every single person living in Gaza deserves to pay for the crimes of Hamas.
You can look up the hamas charter, they advocate genocide.
You are ignorant of history, pals have been offered statehood numerous times throughout the years and their position has always been there can be no Jewish presence in Israel.
The PLO dropped that position in the 80s, and even Hamas dropped it sometime in the 2000s/2010s. You’re the one who’s ignorant of history. And they’re not pals, they’re Palestinians.
No hamas has not https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/880818a.htm
And regardless of what they say their actions speak louder than words and they lie about absolutely everything, how naive.couod you be? Didn’t you see hamas on cnn this week saying things like they did not target civilians on 10/7, they are decrepit.
Their actions also include two permanent ceasefires in 2008 and 2012 that Israel didn’t follow.
The Israeli government offered to create the first Palestinian country in human history and Hamas counter-offered with the destruction of Israel.
Which offer, exactly?
They’ve done it like 3 or 4 times, but a quick Google search will provide many details
Yes, I’m asking which one so I can explain in detail why what you said up there makes no sense.
Oh well then this is a stupid discussion.
I’m not interested in your alternate take on history.
You might want to continue to learn about the issue, as your comment is not exactly an even analysis. It seems more like a narrative wrapped up in surface-level analysis.
Wow, I’m amazed someone has taken such a poor journey.
It’s not complex at all. Palestinians have been ejected from their homes time and again by the State of Israel. Now they’ve been forced out of the West Bank and are all in Gaza, an open air prison. Hamas, a terrorist group, attacks Israel. Israel indiscriminately starts bombing Gaza where half of the inmates are children. Predictably, loads of civilians and children die.
People with a soul are on the side of the innocent civilians being murdered in an open air prison they were forced into by the apartheid Israeli government. It’s really that simple.
It was Egypt that turned Gaza into a prison in '48… And I don’t think Israel ever forced anyone from the WB to go live in Gaza? It seems it’s not really that simple
The simple reality is that islam is a fascist religion and are willing to live in peace with a Jewish state of any borders, look up the 1948 UN partition, whereas Israel has made numerous offers and concessions to peace over the year.
I promise you any thing you say for why pals are justified in their actions because of their oppression is a distortion of history, that pals have started every single conflict.
Unless your position is that the quaran was revealed to Mohamed by God and Hamas has interpreted correctly to say that there can only be Muslim nations in the world then you are supporting fascist idiotic terrorists.
Jews are the natives of the land, you can see there is a mosque built on the Jewish temple, Islam is the colonizer, islam is intolerant, and it’s not just in Israel, it’s in many countries
Yeah, because the Tanakh is so benevolent and all iterations of it are peaceful. Fuck this Sam Harris justification for Islamophobia. All these religions can be fascist, all these religions can be peaceful.
Followers of Islam once carried on the spirit of enlightenment and philosophy while Christians were in the depths of their dark ages. They maintained the knowledge that came from across the old world, while making essential contributions to important things like: The scientific method, social science as a field, economics, culture, and mathematics.
Where the fuck do you think Arabic numerals like 1, 9, or 0 came from? Europe? No. They were invented in India and spread through the world by Islamic cultures and states. Everyone on earth uses these numerals, a universal human language, all thanks to the Islamic world.
So fuck your assertions that Islam is a uniquely terrible religion. If Islam is a religion that can’t exist in a peaceful world, no religion can exist in a peaceful world. How can a religion that helped everyone speak the same language, that has historically existed at the crossroads between Europe, Asia, and Africa, be incompatible with other cultures? It’s a non factor in the discussion of Palestine and Israel.
ISIS and hamas are not enlightened islam, a religion follows it’s interpretation and what ISIS and Hamas do is blasphemy. Islam is not from God, it may have worked in the middle ages but now people who are reading it are insane fundamentalist. There are peaceful Muslims but not the mullahs in Iran, or ISIS or Hamas. Yes the bible says to kill people who violate the sabbath but functionally speaking no one is killed for violating the sabbath and it was not even interpreted that way in biblical times. The war musings of the quaran are interpreted this way by Muslims around the world.
You should look at the Hasbara to help with your discourse.
… is supported by my country so they are the good guys
Holy fuck was this information and reasoning ordained to you by some invisible, omnipotent, and master-of-paradoxes being by any chanc e?
I am triggered by your chanc e. Please kindly fix the typo. 👻
Israel’s bombing innocent young citizens is probably the best possible way to make Hamas grow stronger. What a stupid, horrible, immoral policy.
It’s almost like it’s intentional
Intentional and unprovoked, yeah.
You’re pretty far off the deep end to call the present campaign unprovoked.
Disproportionate, bloody, horrible, inhuman, this you can say, but to claim that Israel wasn’t attacked and hasn’t suffered is frankly insane
You can understand the cynicism though. The occupation has been 75 years long. And it’s well known that Netanyahu wanted the secular faction weakened and had funded Hamas to do it. The Mossad also begged Qatar to fund Hamas.
This is a deliberate planned extermination.
Are you blaming Israel for providing resources to hamas so it could attack Israel?
You got it wrong.
I didn’t mean that Israel’s actions are unprovoked. I meant there were, in fact, obviously provoked, and therefore can’t be intentional.
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They are targeting Hamas, they gave notice to civilians to evacuate. Your ‘theyre bombing the children’ is just reciting terrorist propaganda.
Hamas’ targeted civilians, Hamas hides behind civilians.
Your ‘theyre bombing the children’ is just reciting terrorist propaganda.
For those that don’t speak fascist, I’ll happily translate - Israel is bombing the children.
Hamas targets children, Hamas hides behind children, Hamas is explicitly fascist, if they could kill you for your lifestyle they would.
So you mean to say we must kill Hamas at all cost, even if we have to bomb the children?
Yes hamas has to be removed because they are terrorist, they will lead to the deaths of civilians on both sides and have caused many deaths. Civilians are given the opportunity to flea, they should leave, why would they stay ? To be propaganda martyrs?
You are a crisis actor, you act like you have this moral principle that we have to protect the Innocents at all costs but when the pals routinely target civilians you say nothing
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Hamas targets children , the pals support it, they are the bad guys. Israel does not target civilians hamas hides behind them, they are the unobjectively the bad guys
Isreal government are also terrorists.
Neither party is in the right. While yes Israel does normally give warning and time to evacuate in this recent conflict Israel has repeatedly told civilians to evacuate to areas and then shelled and/or bomb those areas specifically evacuation corridors. There’s simply isn’t enough area in the strip for people to evacuate or move out of the way to.
Israel is objectively in the right. The only perspective where they are not is if you are an Islamic fascist who believes God wrote the quaran to Mohammed and hamas has interpreted it correctly to say the entire world should be compelled to be a Muslim theocracy.
Every war results in civilian deaths, WW2, the civil war etc… Hamas hides behind civilians , in the history of the world there is not a nation which has taken more steps to avoid civilian casualties of its enemies than Israel
Wtf kind of rhetoric is this? There is no objectively right side in this conflict. It’s just evil people doing evil shit and the average person suffering because of it.
He’s a bigot who thinks it’s a religious war.
Yes there is an objectively right side, 1 side may not be perfect but there is 1 side that is evil- the Islamic fascists.
Like 9/11, yes america has made foreign policy errors however to hijack planes and crash them into buildings is evil. Yes they celebrated in Palestine and throughout the Arab world and civilians died hunting down al qaeda but it was appropriate to do.
If you are American you are living on colonized land, you are considered evil by the Islamic fascists, do you think someone is justified to break onto house and stab you, to target you as infidel explicitly. That is not the same as responding to that attack and the evil terrorist is hiding behind civilians (who support him) and them being killed despite taking numerous steps to avoid them.
The Islamic fascists are objectively wrong, they believe that a medieval warlords poetry comes from God and kill anyone that disagree, ISIS did this things in Kurdistan, just killing everyone and taking sex slaves. They are objectively evil and wrong and it is an intellectual and moral weakness if you can’t distinguish this
I don’t think you’ll find many people on lemmy who will agree that the US is objectively right in virtually any conflict. I remember even on the day 9/11 was happening people were saying how this was the chicken coming home to roost. Civilians don’t deserve any of this, but the actions of their country – against their will – started a chain reaction that lead to this terrorist attack.
That’s not to excuse terrorist acts. But they don’t come out of nowhere - they always feed on some legitimate grievance, or else they would have no recruits.
Yeah some people did cheer 9/11 but these are morally weak people.
If Israel killed 2 million gazans tomorrow they could say look at what they did and I don’t think the people who said the 9/11 terrorists had their reason would endorse killing 2 million Muslims.
This is what moral reasoning is, just because 1 side isn’t perfect doesn’t mean that the other side is evil or wrong.
You can see that the Islamic fascists rely obscuring issues, propaganda, yelling slogans in unison.
To parse facts is difficult but it is not difficult to see that islam is a fascist ideaology unwilling to be peaceful and Israel has made numerous steps and concessions to peace.
You could say that ISIS is justified to genocide the kurds for some reason, you can say the Nazis were justified, that Germany was decimated… It doesn’t occur in a vacuum, but then to turn around and be sympathetic to the Nazis who were bombed? Yeah many people are, they see the Nazis as justified and lament their oppression, but they are idiots.
You seem to assume that there are two possible positions: Hamas must be supported in what they do to Israelis, or the Israeli government must be supported in what they do to Palestinians. This dichotomy is bullshit. The Israeli government can theoretically be changed through democracy to put people that want to coexist with Palestinians in power. Palestine could theoretically have an anti-Hamas organization come to power who work towards coexistence.
However, the campaign of terror that Israel has waged against Palestinians for decades makes it hard for them to want coexistence. Conversely, the threat of Hamas feeds Islamophobic sentiment in Israel, allowing wannabe fascists like Bibi to gain power.
Bibi actually fucked up by not preparing for the attack and not seeing it coming in the first place. Israelis are pissed and it’s predicted that Netanyahu will lose power when things quiet down. Unfortunately, this gives the current government the perverse incentive to continually escalate the war for as long as possible while showing strength against Hamas in the hopes that right wing Israelis forgive them for their incompetence.
To change Israelis leadership, foreigners who want peace should encourage Israel to deescalate the war, and one way to do that might be to prevent both sides from getting the weapons needed to prolong the war. We should sanction Hamas and help Israel stop weapons flow into Gaza, but we should also not give Israel any weapons that fuel their attacks with high collateral damage. No artillery, try to end the blockade of essential resources by helping to police imports, and other techniques to keep Israel from widening the war. Tell them that they will not receive support if they encourage clashes with foreign adversaries. Tell them to only defend settlements in the West Bank and not carry out preemptive attacks.
I doubt Biden will do enough to deescalate, but there is a possibility that he will try to avoid a broader war. The US congress will totally give terrible weapons to Israel with bipartisan support, only helping Netanyahu stay in power.
What’s unforgivable about the response from the West is that many, like you, conflate the desire for peace with support for Hamas. It doesn’t matter if you say Hamas are fascists that must be destroyed, you have to believe that killing Palestinians is the only solution. The only way for the IDF’s strategy to destroy Hamas to work, is if they kill all Palestinians in the West Bank. They could kill 10k, 100k, 1 million, or even 2 million Gazans, but the remaining Palestinians will be no less radicalized. Hell, they’ll probably be even more radicalized than before.
The only way to kill Hamas without genocide is to give Gazans a serious way to improve their conditions. Israel should give billions to the most benevolent Palestinian organizations to invest in the country. They could give Palestinians voting rights and equal access to social services, effectively turning what is currently Isreal into a secular, federal state. The only other way that Israelis could get rid of Hamas is to turn Palestine into a maximally authoritarian police state, and in addition to being very expensive, they’ll probably have settlers push Palestinians out over time, resulting in a slower genocide.
The actual dichotomy isn’t Netanyahu or Hamas, it’s financially cheap genocide, or expensive peace, with slow and expensive genocide existing in between. Not all problems are best solved through violence.
I don’t think you know or understand the history of the conflict at all.
As I’ve said in other comments, and these are the simple facts of the conflict- that Israel has always been willing to and wanted to live in peace with Palestinians, that they accepted then 1948 partition, that they didn’t control the WB and Gaza until the 1967 war, have offered the pals states numerous times and they arabs live freely in Israel. OTOH pals have been explicit that there can be no Jewish state on any form, no Jewish presence, and vowed to fight to the death against it. These are the facts. The Jews, who are the natives of the land have made numerous concessions and the arabs who are from other places have not made any concessions from their demands which is absolute Islamic fascism.
Every ‘campaign’ of the Israelis to restrict Palestinians has been the result of massive terror campaigns which the pals have vowed to as long as Israel exists.
Maybe not every response of Israel has been exactly measured but the genesis of the conflict is clear, that the Islamic fascist are not willing to accept a non Muslim presence in any form, and they are the occupiers, Jews are the natives of the land. Everyone knows that Jerusalem, Hebron, nazereth etc… Are all cities built by Jews.
West bank and Gaza are given a ton of aid and if they accepted a state would be living in wealth, living well is not their objective or at least not the objective of the government. They say explicitly they desire death, they they love death more than Jews love life.
You are intellectually weak and have no moral spine
All abrahamic religions are founded on lies.
First of all Israel is a western democracy and is not government based on Judaism any more than Britain is government based on Christianity.
Second of all there is a reason that Jewish based relations spread around the world, and that is because there is a true element which is consistent with Aristotle and Hinduism , that the nature of world is that there exists a creator being who is detached from all else. Many important things have come from this true conception of the universe, but one of them is not that the entire world should be government by the poetry of a medevil warlord
ALL abrahamic religions are founded on lies. The book of Genesis is part of the Torah and exists solely to indoctrinate prejudice against women. They are all bullshit.
That is not true. For good or bad these are the most ancient myths of humanity,stories used to transmit ideas before writing was invented and written down at the neolithic revolution.
Men and women are of different natures … In truth Adam , eve, and the snake are all one being and exists inside every person. In the story God only speaks to Adam , Adam speaks to eve and eve to the snake as this is how they are connected in the brain/soul
The snake is not specifically evil, but relates to physical needs eg food, sex.
There’s a lot to it.
reciting terrorist propaganda.
With all honestly, especially with the massacres that have been taking place last night, where Israel cut off all internet and networks, making it impossible for ambulances to operate, it really is Israel creating propaganda against Palestinians, not very different from how Nazi Germnay made up bullshit about Jews, a lot of propaganda not too different from the propaganda being used to justify murdering Palestinian children. Netanyahu is butchering Palestinians in Gaza now under the idea of a “final solution”. Israel’s constant obsession with not covering news from Gaza is no different from Nazi Germany hiding their atrocities from the public. Palestinians are considered “outsiders”, just like the Jews in Nazi Germany. There are apartheid areas that Palestinians can’t enter even though the territory was supposed to be under Palestinian rule. Palestinians are losing their jobs, losing their homes, their shops, not much different. Being demonized, deported, ignored, tortured, all of these are things Palestinian victims and holocaust victims have together.
Ambulances cant operate without the internet ? Ok. It’s a war, there will be suffering. Hamas could release the hostages and stop firing rockets…
Pals don’t have freedom because they are at constant war. They had every opportunity for a state and they chose war. Pal territory was controlled by Jordan and Egypt until 1966 and there was war
Pals are given the opportunity to flea a war zone, it is nothing like the Holocaust. This isn’t even like black September, the Syrian civil war or any other Arab conflict where the Muslims are much more severe let alone the Holocaust. Even if Israel killed literally millions of Palestinians it would not be like the Holocaust , the pals are devoted to fighting the jews, the Jews were not a threat to Germany in any way.
Ambulances have been unable to operate without internet or phone lines or networks of any kind.
Hamas agreed already to the UNGA resolution to have a ceasefire and release all hostages. Israel didn’t agree to the resolution
“OK it’s a war” was never an excuse for the holocaust and neither is it an excuse today.
We killed many Germans civilians in WW2, that is what happens in a war.
Ambulances cant operate without the internet ? Ok. It’s a war, there will be suffering. Hamas could release the hostages and stop firing rockets…
Pals don’t have freedom because they are at constant war. They had every opportunity for a state and they chose war. Pal territory was controlled by Jordan and Egypt until 1966 and there was war
Pals are given the opportunity to flea a war zone, it is nothing like the Holocaust. This isn’t even like black September, the Syrian civil war or any other Arab conflict where the Muslims are much more severe let alone the Holocaust. Even if Israel killed literally millions of Palestinians it would not be like the Holocaust , the pals are devoted to fighting the jews, the Jews were not a threat to Germany in any way.
What a disgusting take.
Watch Journey to Apartheid to understand this conflict.
I don’t need your propaganda.
Fact is Muslims live freely as equal citizens in Israel and have no desire to live under Palestinian authority.
Jews cannot live freely in a Muslim country and have had laws discriminating against Jews for hundreds of years. Judaism predates islam not only in Israel but in Iran, Iraq,syria, Egypt, Morocco and in all these places there are and have always been discriminatory laws against Jews.
Jewish people are the natives of the land, the aqsa mosque is built on the Jewish temple, the premise of Islam is there can be no Jewish state or Jewish freedom anywhere and not in the land to which they are native, it is all Muslim dictatorships from Morocco to Pakistan, they are fascist
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Martin Luther King Jr.
Palestinian Moslems and Christians and Jews are very much natives of the land. It’s the same fucking people, a number of which changed religion in the 2500 years since the Diaspora started.
Denying that is the #1 lie of Israeli fascists. If you wanna be a Zionist go back to Herzl and actually strive towards living in harmony with your brothers and sisters.
There are druze , circassions, Muslim immigrants who came hundreds of years ago,.some came when the Jews came, there are many different groups but everyone knows that Jews are native to the land
but everyone knows that Jews are native to the land
I mean… yes and no? Filipinos aren’t native to Saudi Arabia just because they happen to be Muslim.
The Jews got ethnically cleansed out of the area ballpark 500BC when Babylonians conquered it, then when Persians conquered it less than 100 years later they were allowed to return. Islam and Christianity didn’t exist at that time. Ashkenazi in particular stem from a Jewish community in Rome, ca. 200BC, that is they’re part of the diaspora which didn’t return immediately.
Now it’s over 2000 years later and while I wouldn’t want to deny anyone the right to move to a place of religious and cultural importance to their ethnicity, but bloody behave yourselves while doing it. The Palestinians aren’t the Babylonians, they’re the descendants of people who returned early to those lands. And that’s actually what Herzl and the early Zionists did, but then nationalistic chauvinists came along, including people who aligned with fucking Nazis like the Stern Gang, and everything went, predictably, to shit. From that general fascist direction also things like forced sterilisation of black Jews in Israel.
Deal with those people, for starters, don’t have Ben-Gvir as minister for national security, accept that they’re the same shit as Hamas and Nazis just with a different coat of paint and act accordingly. Once the Israeli civil society gets around to do that a lot of people would be way more receptive to the idea of “but but Israel is the good guy here”. Once you stop making excuses for fascists and fascist rhetoric and myths. I know the average Israeli isn’t a fascist, they’re centre-left, but boy is there a blind spot when it comes to “security” rhetoric.
Arabs are native to Saudi arabia, Islam is an Arab religion but not all Muslims are arabs. It’s like the difference between being Italian and Catholic. Judaism is an ethno religion, they don’t convert and they don’t force people to convert as Muslims do.
Some pals may be defended from Jews but many groups traveled through the region over the years and there was never a cohesive Palestinian identity. Under Muslim rule there were laws against non Muslims immigrating. Under British rule Jews were allowed but so were Muslims and many Muslims immigrated at this time as Jews developed the land.
The arabs sided with the Nazis in the war and sought to restrict Jewish immigration. The British mandate of Palestine was all of current day Israel and Jordan. The Balfour declaration divided Palestine into Jordan and Israel, with Jews only allowed in Israel and Muslims allowed every where. Jordan was given to the 'heshemite ’ family who is not native, the entire country was given as a kingdom to a single family not from the region… in 1948 Palestine was further partitioned into areas where Jews were allowed and where they were not with a small Jewish state of mostly desert and swamp in Palestine, the Jews accepted and the arabs went to war. Before that point there was no Arab displacement or intention to but after the war many arabs were pushed out. Look up the 1948 partition. So at that point the Jews who were refugees from Europe were able to immigrate to Israel.
The arabs launched wars against the existence of Israel in 1955, 1968, 1973 , while Jordan controlled the west bank they never thought of making it a Palestinian state… When Israel controlled it they offered the pals states numerous times but from the beginning the pals refused because they will not recognize a Jewish state of any form as they have from the beginning, as it’s part of their fascist religion
I don’t see why there can’t be a Jewish state, and furthermore why Jews can’t live freely in the west bank, in Jordan, and even in Iraq , of Muslims can live freely in Israel why it the reverse ? Even under the occupation pals in the west bank have a better quality of life than most Arab countries and Gaza was way better off before Hamas. Israel has made rons of concessions to peace and that was their mistake, because they were naive leftists who believed that if they make steps towards peace the pals will reciprocate. What happened was they gave pals an inch , the pals used everything for terrorism, Israel clamped down and now the Islamic fascist regime uses thata as a pretext for terrorism.
So you think the Celts should kill all French and Germans, right? I mean they are native to the land, their ancestors were there before the Romans and the Germanic tribes
Jews are the natives of the land. So if you could imagine the British not allowing celts in England. Or white people not allowing native Americans in the US.
They assume they have obliterated Hamas when all Palestinians are dead.
Who will they blame when the only palestinian blood left is flowing in the river Jordan
Don’t worry, they will find someone to blame.
Traditionally countries would blame Jews, so I’m not sure what will happen…
they could go over to the black/brown Jews, after all they did sterilize a whole bunch of them before…
Then they will go after the Muslims in Isreal.
If that were their goal 2 million would’ve been obliterated already. Stop assuming they’re racist and think what they can do from their perspective. They have over 200 kidnapped, mostly civilians, and they’re dealing with a group which proved physically that their only goal is killing civilians for terror.
Stop assuming they’re racist and think what they can do from their perspective.
Bro they’re literally committing warcrimes according to the UN. Examples include:
Bombing refugee trucks fleeing North Gaza.
Giving orders to evacuate to certain locations and then bombing them.
Using white phosphorus.
They have over 200 kidnapped, mostly civilians,
Well in that case don’t bomb them because they’re also dying in these attacks.
Using white phosphorus? No legit source confirmed that. That’s some nice propaganda by Hamas who have been proven to lie constantly.
Idk about the 2 other claims, but it’s easy to believe them. I’d like to think they had a good reason bombing so called “safe spaces” but the truth is that there couldn’t be a safe place in Gaza right now. Not when Hamas is legit everywhere.
And about the kidnapped, do you really think they can just march into the tunnels and just grab them and say bye? Dead soldiers can’t save anyone. They’d rather kill some and actually rescue some, than keeping them alive while getting hundreds if not thousands of soldiers running to their deaths in trapped underground tunnels. Doing a ground invasion without bombing the area first is just suicide.
Seriously, what the hell do you expect Israel to do in that situation. Think for just a second from their perspective and you’ll realize what they’re doing is necessary.
Using white phosphorus? No legit source confirmed that.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/12/israel-white-phosphorus-used-gaza-lebanon
There you go.
Idk about the 2 other claims, but it’s easy to believe them. I’d like to think they had a good reason bombing so called “safe spaces” but the truth is that there couldn’t be a safe place in Gaza right now. Not when Hamas is legit everywhere.
And that justifies bombing trucks full of refugees?
Doing a ground invasion without bombing the area first is just suicide.
Nobody said do a ground invasion in the first place. Negotiations are obviously the way to go here.
That article literally starts with “Beirut, oc.12”. Saying lebanon are a good source of facts is delusional.
And that justifies bombing trucks full of refugees?
Again, source? And not an obviously biased one. Either way though, I can see that happening as a part of a war. Hamas are literally hiding between innocent women and babies, and that means those women and babies are killed. Does Israel have a hand in those deaths? Yes. Is Hamas responsible for those people? 200% yes and much more than Israel. Hamas started this attack very well prepared militarily, and with zero civilian infrastructure preparations. Not only did they not think of “what’ll become of our civilians” they actively hold them from running to the south (which is still less bombed than the north). Blaming Israel and protesting against Israel is just ignoring the other side being completely wrong
Oh ok so 1400 dead and 200 kidnapped and they’re supposed to just tap Hamas on the wrist and call it a day?
Israel’s response is deadly, and 100% known since day 1 by anyone who is even a bit knowledgeable on the conflict. And that includes Hamas, which just disregard their citizens as colletaral damage in the pursuit of their lunatic jihad mindset.
So since you’re obviously not discussing this in good faith I’ll go do something else. But, just in case, here’s your source.
That article literally starts with “Beirut, oc.12”. Saying lebanon are a good source of facts is delusional.
Bruh it’s Human Rights Watch saying that. Lebanon isn’t claiming anything.
I won’t engage with this further; you’re not discussing this in good faith.
If you go over to astroturfed reddit, there is no shortage of topvoted comments cheering the IDF for bombing children by saying “they’re all hamas.”
The same rhetoric Hamas probably used to justify killing Israeli civilians. But it’s okay if Israel does it, because you know.
Interesting to me, that Israel, the country that is most well known for cyber security and big tough guys who are good at martial arts, can’t find random Hamas insurgents and take them out with precision strikes. No, it has to be artillery.
That’s because the “big tough guys who are good at martial arts” are little more than hype and doesn’t mean all that much in a military context. These overglorified “elites” (which usually turn out to be more Jeffrey Dahmer than John Rambo) have never won any wars for the countries that employ them.
Tbh, I didn’t know Israel was known for cyber security. Guess I just think of a religious country with a big ass wall… but I’m not sure why I think of a wall. Could be World War Z
warmongering county wages war Pikachu face
Quite obviously, those tools don’t win you wars. The world population is huge, so a martial artist doesn’t count for much. Spying tech is useful, but it’s also something people can work around, and regardless , the difficult challenge is what to do with that data.
your right, shooting civilians on the other hand is a major win tho
So much for cyber security when they can’t even face a Moroccan legion who hacked one of their TV channels
Israelis definitely seem pissed that the IDF didnt get word of this attack before it happened via cyber or spy channels.
Krav Maga is not a real martial art
Fact.
So much money wasted in this world on security theatre and culture wars.
Not praising the war on terror, but we very quickly identified targets and let it be known that we were invading for these specific people.
Israel’s handling of this feels like they’re just leaving it at war against bad guys/guys we don’t like very much/people that look at us funny/Jim from down the street.
I read somewhere that presumably Hamas uses out of the date / primitive ways of communication to avoid being tracked online. I can’t seem to see Hamas to outperform Israel at cyber security but I can imagine them running "off network " cables via their tunnels or even using old fashion living messengers .
edit: typosThey want to destroy buildings, infrastructure.
You really think they don’t know where Hamas’ leaders are? They know, but it’s probably impossible to kill them, since they hide under hospitals in underground tunnels, and no type of ammunition can penetrate 30m deep underground without obliterating the building above it. No country in the world has faced these kinds of fighting conditions, and even the U.S had trouble fighting in the middle east because of probably these same reasons.
They’re not fighting another army, with a base and well defined targets. They’re fighting a terror organization operating from civilian homes.
That’s because the gross of the Israeli military and intelligence is bussy harassing the Palestinian on the West Bank and giving support to the “settlers” land stealing efforts.
Hamas hides in civilian places. In return, Israel bombs said civilian places, killing everyone but mostly uninvolved innocent folks, most of those are children. And yet when they try to leave, Hamas won’t let them, and Israel bombs the exit anyway.
I feel like these two guys are secretly allied to commit genocide or something.
And yes, I’m waiting for the downvotes to come in. I don’t even care anymore. Just press the button.
Ah yes, Hamas, the 7000 innocent men women and children murdered must have all been Hamas members. The entire strip is Hamas according to the IDF. That’s why its necessary to deprive children of food, shelter, water, and medical attention, all while raining hell down on them 24 hours a day. Makes perfect sense. They just have to you guys don’t you get it all the palestinians are hamas, and those journalists they murdered they’re all hamas too!
The entire strip is Hamas according to the IDF
The IDF issued an order to evacuate the north part of Gaza. So anyone that didn’t evacuate? Hamas. And the people who evacuated? Hamas using human shields. Sadly this isn’t satire, it is the IDF’s actual justification.
Bombing civilian infrastructure is a war crime.
Hiding weapons there is a war crime
No one here gave a fuck when Russia did it to Ukraine.
Can’t take anyone here seriously with the “but what about the children”.
The same guys were cheering Russia on when they bombed the shit out of Ukrainian towns.
Making shit up. Regardless, governments stepped in to help. But now we have the US and UK endorsing genocide.
And now the people who did agree to evacuate are beginning to return to the north because the south is being bombed as well.
7000… Isn’t that number from Hamas? I’m pretty critical of Israel’s reaction to the terror attacks myself but taking Hamas’ numbers at face value and to propagate that number without questioning it is extremely naive.
They recently released a list of everyone who died in the last few weeks, with names and national IDs, numbering about 6400 IIRC. I think we can believe that. They said there were 200 or so unidentified victims.
No, it isn’t. I’ve followed the death tolls day after bloody day. I didn’t even know that hamas had made any claim about the death toll.
And even the way you phrased that “pretty critical of Israel’s reaction to the terror attacks” is propaganda. Mass murder of civilians, depriving civilians of food water and healthcare, neither of those things is a reaction to anything. Those actions stand on their own. No one is forcing Netanyahu to kill children. He is happily doing it on his own.
On the contrary: saying that these atrocities committed by Israel were not direct reactions to the atrocities committed by Hamas is intellectually dishonest. There is no good guy in this conflict, both sides are thugs out for blood with the civilians on both sides caught in the middle. Believing anything else is falling for propaganda.
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Hamas is the governing body there, they all celebrated and danced around dead bodies on 10/7- those people should die.
They’ve been given warning to evacuate. Why doesn’t Egypt let them in? Remember the lie that Israel bombed the crossing?
Even tho you ignore the fact that hamas was elected in 2004 and half the civilians currently alive in gaza are children who would of course not voted before they were born, how do you justify the explosion in settler terrorism in the west bank since gaza has been sieged? How do you justify the bombing of civilians in the west bank if theres no hamas there? Also if i gave you a warning to evacuate your home or die im sure you wouldnt leave so why should gazans?
Your premise that there is land which is reserved for arabs is false. If there is empty land Jews can live there. I don’t care for the idea that arabs live freely in Israel with equal rights while in the west bank, or Jordan, or Iraq Jews cannot live there, have equal rights and in fact would be killed.
You have had 75 yrs against Israel legitimacy and Israel has to take steps for security. Israel is tiny. Why can’t Jordan, which is a part of Palestine give land to the Palestinians or the state of Israel? Why was the entire land of Jordan given to ‘the heshimite family’ who are not even native to the land ?
It is clear to anyone clear thinking person that islamic outlook is fascist and has been at open war against Jews and non Muslims for decades and centuries. And that they have been defeated, are the losers, and now peddle this pathetic propaganda and it takes root because of weak minded people whose thoughts are based on childish slogans that are recited in unison, have you read 1984?
This is why the media is so highly censored in these places, that they scream over any debate, they are violent fascists, relying on censorship and propaganda, using any means to advance their idiotic religious agenda.
Empty land? My man, they’re literally kicking people out of their homes and moving settlers in, there’s videos and reports from multiple sources. It’s not the vast empty plains of the wild west after the natives died to disease.
Vox did a great report a while back where they talked to a guy who was moved into a house a family was kicked out and his justifications for moving in and the struggles he faces in the neighborhood. The focus though was the family who got kicked out and their efforts to get it back.
I’d link the video but I don’t wanna link YouTube and I’m sure you could find these kind of reports if you wanted to.
In the 18 and 1900s Palestine was largely empty , the Jews a state on some land and the 1948 partition gave the Jews mainly vacant land. The pal position has been there can be no Jewish state in any form
All throughout the 18 and 1900s the arabs warred against the Jews and kicked them out of their homes in Hebron , in Jerusalem, these court cases talking about who owns which house are obscure. And it is possible that some pals are unjustly kicked out of homes, I don’t know. But the broader conflict is that the pals are Islamic fascist who do not think Jews should be able to live anywhere or have a state anywhere and fight in any despicable way they can against it. So maybe sometimes a pal gets treated unfairly but for every 1 of these cases there are a hundred cases where Jews have had land stolen, like the history of Hebron and what happened in the 30s. And there are many cases where Arab claims are upheld by Israel, they are all over Jerusalem.
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They don’t have to tell them to evacuate, hamas attacked and started a war, there’s a war, they’re not tied to a post.
There is no conceivable way that there wouldn’t be a war after what Hamas did.
And you can use the typical pal trope of what about what Israel did before… And the fact of the matter is if you want to trace this conflict to it’s genesis its that pals follow a fascist Islamic ideology which is opposed to any Jewish state.of any form and no Jewish presence anywhere in the land. They are fascist. They have launched war and terrorists attacks , have been defeated and restrained and their only recourse is to hide behind children and play the victim, yell slogans to affect weak minded people.
The Jews have always been willing to live in peace, live with a Palestinian state, live with arabs in the state of Israel. The Muslims have openly opposed any peace with Jews. Jews are the natives of the land and the Muslims have said even if an area is completely abandoned, a swamp or a desert, that Jews cannot be there, they are ok with Muslims from any other part of the world being there, they are ok with no one there, but not Jews who are the natives of the land. They are fascist. Imagine caring about the ‘character of the land’ and seeking to exclude Jews… It is a mosque built on top of the Jewish temple, Islam is the occupier. You see the fascist Muslims fight like this against the Jews as well as many other people in many countries, you are reflexive and weak minded if you are sympathetic to them when they complain about losing the wars they start, hiding behind children for propagana
Are you a woman lady autumn? Do you have any idea what it’s like to be a woman in a fascist islamic regime? That in Iran and Gaza they kill women who don’t wear their head scarfs, will kill them if they talk to a man, what do you think their marriages are like? They are misogynistic and it’s no wonder they have such an easy time recruiting terrorists
Children never deserve to be murdered. Ever. No matter by whom or for what reason. I don’t have any response to the rampant amount of Islamophobia in general displayed here. Not all Muslims are violent misogynists. Innocent civilians who have done no wrong should never be murdered under any circumstances.
Murder is deliberately targeting, it is a war crime, it is what Hamas did, it is what Nazis did.
When terrorists hide behind civilians and civilians are killed inadvertently in the midst of a war it is called collateral damage, they are not intentionally targeted and it is not Anwar crime. Again hamas is the war criminal hiding behind them.
In every war civilians die because of collateral damage, in WW2, the civil war, every war. The difference is hamas targets children and hides behind them, Israel takes steps to avoid civilian casualties
No, no, no. Throwing a fucking bomb randomly into a civilian neighborhood is not collateral damage. The civilians are the direct damage. Starving children and depriving them of water and healthcare is murder.
You’re deliberately misrepresenting every single action taken by the IDF.
No I’m not, the IDF targets hamas, maybe sometimes they miss. Hamas has been launching hundreds of rockets a day indiscriminately into Israel for years.
The gazans should go into Egypt, Hamas is the government and controls where aid goes
Israel is the one that has been constantly conquering land from Palestine (even after the UN’s plan of partition), not the other way around, and what they are doing are war crimes which means its a crime even during a war, how dumb do you have to be not to understand that, hamas is terrible but so is Netanyahu
Israel agreed to the UN partition and the arabs went to war against them to destroy them. In 1967 they went to war again to destroy Israel. There is no such thing as land which is inherently Muslim, Muslims have countries from Morocco to Pakistan and their fascist ideology says that there can only be Muslim nations. They have rejected Israel and freedom for Jews 100%, Israel has the right to defend itself from fascists. The Nazis had the same ideology and the arabs fought with the Nazis in WW2.
What hamas did is war crimes, targeting civilians. What Israel does, targeting terrorists and having collateral damage because they are hiding behind civilians is not war crimes. In Russia Ukraine war civilians die but their are not war crimes, they do not target civilians. In WW2 many civilians died but it is collateral damage. It is different from the terrorist war crimes of Hamas there is no equivocation. This propaganda is part of how the terrorists fight, they lie they are relentless, so you expect people who do these things to not lie?
What? Before the british mandate ended the haganah laid out plan dalet which clearly stated for the expulsion of Palestinians, blowing up populous cities and planting mines, it was after that that the neighboring Arab states went to war with israel, israel captured at-least 30% more land than what was proposed by the UN, also you are trying to justify killing an infinitely more amount of civilians and committing more crimes in a response to a crime.
That’s like someone killed a loved one of your’s so you start murdering ppl on the street.
Also israel probably has the most advanced intelligence system in the world but they apparently can’t use it to find the hamas members and need to bomb an entire country.
I suggest you complete your middle school (and possibly attend your therapy) before commenting on complex situations like these.
Anyone can look up the 1948 partition which Israel accepted and the arabs rejected. Anyone can lookup ‘plan dalet’ and see that it’s developed in the midst of a war.
For hundreds of years there were laws against Jews in Palestine as well as every Muslim country.
Jews have been explicit that they are willing to live in peace with Muslims, and Muslims have been explicit that they are racist who will not tolerate any non Muslim presence.
Hamas is the one who came in and murdered random people because they don’t submit to Islamic fascism as they do in my parts of the world. Israel is targeting Hamas who are hiding behind civilians. These are clear facts which anyone can see. The reason pals fight is rooted in their Islamic fascism that they don’t get 100% of what they want which is an Islamic caliphate throughout the world. This is the message that is explicit in the quaran and how they are innoculated from childhood
Why doesn’t Israel let them in? If there was free movement between Gaza and Israel all problems would be solved, right?
No, that’s a ridiculous thing to say. Even the Muslim arabs massacred the Christian arabs in Lebanon, they was supposed to be a Muslim/christian state. Do you know about that ?
If someone can’t get along with their neighbors, maybe they’re the problem…
Interesting though that Israel is making great headway in relationships with it’s neighbours and this it seen as one of the main reasons that Iran and other fundamentalist organisations trained, supplied and directed the terror attacks and kidnappings which started this current conflict.
Iran doesn’t want Israel and Jordan working together on mutually beneficial infrastructure and trade projects, they certainly don’t want Israel and Saudi Arabia to sign any agreements or treaties… This conflict is being forced by outside actors who have little regard for Palestinian life but a strong hatred for Israel.
This is not a simple matter, no matter how you look at it there are layers upon layers of complexity.
Hmmm, every single Muslim country has conflicts with their neighbors that has to be violently suppressed, with the Jews, with the Christians, with the Hindus… They fight amongst themselves with shia and sunni, every Muslim country is a violent totalitarian dictatorship which is completely corrupt with most people living in poverty, so where do you think the problem is? The religion based on poetry of a medieval warlord that people interpret as being from God ?
Well think about it. At this point, after all the trauma, how many of those kids are future Hamas? Gotta be safe.
I get the joke but there’s also the question of how many kids are currently Hamas, when kids include anyone under 18 then some of those kids are already going to be actively engaged in combat for Hamas.
Or did we think that in Gaza everyone waits until they’re 18 before getting involved?
Or did we think that in Gaza everyone waits until they’re 18 before getting involved?
Probably not considering the average age in Gaza is 19.
If this is satire, it’s not good, since this is the Israeli policy.
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I keep spraying this grease fire with my fire extinguisher, and flames keep coming! No I’m not going to stop, can’t you see my house is burning down!
Such a dystopian headline it’s comedic
All thanks to the Random Number Generator for allowing us to be born in a place where we have the privilege to call dystopia comedic.
That’s genocide at this point, and Israel is a Nazi state.
There, I said it.
Do you know what either of those terms mean?
And you’re a moron for saying it.
If Israel were nazis, you wouldn’t hear cries of civilians injured, because 2 million would’ve been wiped out.
No. Israel is really not Nazi Germany, who killed its own citizens out of racism. Israel is fighting aggressive neighbors who will do anything to kill them. Don’t confuse the two, it’s a dangerous comparison since it’s so wrong.
What keeps people from fleeing? They are resisting and helping a terror regime.
There it is.
Israel is a democracy ranked by the Economist to be more democratic than the US. All Israeli citizens have the same rights even the Israeli muslim citizens. In contrast every other country in the region discriminates against jews. Most do not let jews enter the country and have a history of previously expulsing jews. This is literally the definition of being a nazi state.
Ah yes that’s why Israel is now putting all those “citizens” in prison, raiding their homes at night, allowing settlers to hurt them, allowing politicians in the Knesset to say racist things to them. Totes a democracy ROFL
These countries have no problems with Jewish people. They don’t allow Israeli’s to enter.
No no no, the settlers and whatever shit the IDF pulls to help them happens outside Israel so it doesn’t count /s
Palestinians of the Westbank Gaza are not Israeli citizens because these are not Israeli territories of the UN partition plan of 1947. Why should the descendants of these people now be Israeli citizens?
Ah, that makes it fine then!
Thank you for agreeing
That was sarcasm.
Israel is a fascist apartheid state.
Ranked higher than a country where many believe there to only be one valid party and that if the other party gains power that the entire democratic system will collapse and bring Armageddon?
That’s who you’re comparing against?
The Economist also ranks Israel higher than Italy, India, Belgium, Poland or Croatia. Israel is top 29 in the democracy index.
India, the country best known for being notoriously corrupt to the point where it’s very noticeably hindering progress?
Yes and compared to Israel India is much less democratic.
Netanyahu has been a prime minister since 2009. He’s a de-facto dictator.
So basically what you are saying is that the government represents the people and therefore most Israelis agree to commit genocide?
I can understand why they are probably afraid of being colonized and taken over.
The world is on fire and instead of working together to extinguish the flames, we’re just using what resources haven’t yet burnt to make more fire to kill each other with.
Hard to extinguish flames when one side keeps claiming they won’t stop until everyone else is dead. There’s no reasoning with that kind of logic.
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In Gaza they serve a special role. They also store rockets and launch sites at their schools and other facilities.
Source? The government of a nation founded on and continuing to do genocide. Very reliable i bet. Israel has never been proven to lie before. Better bomb the school children and hospitals to be safe
Go do some of your own googling. Literally reporters filming out of Gaza accidently caught Hamas doing this stuff on numerous occasions.
Anyone know what Hamas says? Do they say they want peace between them and Israel?
No they think Israel needs to be obliterated
That’s the biggest barrier to peace then. The whole article’s a waste of time without that bit.
Yes, the biggest barrier to peace is one militant group that Bibi kept funding, and not the giant state of Israel that has now killed 7k Palestinians.
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Do you realise most Palestinians living in gaza prefer an even more radical political party ? Hamas is progressive for Palestine.
Hamas has at least sometimes opened up to a two state solution. Most Palestinians would prefer that Israel disappeared.
None of that means that civilians should die or that war crimes and annexation should be committed by the state of Israel. But it’s just plain false to say that the actions of Hamas are unsupported by the Palestinians. Just like there are plenty of genocidal maniacs in Israel there are plenty of genocidal maniacs in Palestine.
That said Israel is the occupying force, they should be held to a higher standard than Hamas and so far they have failed, managing to kill even more civilians.
Edit: wrote west bank instead of Gaza, brain fart.
Do you realize half the people in gaza are children? They cant even vote. So statements like yours are absolutely senseless.
Nobody can vote in Gaza. But saying that Hamas was created and financed by Israel when their ideas are clearly popular is ridiculous.
You can say that Israel caused this mess by annexing Palestine. By putting an effective regime of Apartheid. But saying that Hamas or their actions are not popular among the general population is false.
Nobody can vote in Gaza.
This is because Hamas ended elections.
It’s well known that Netanyahu wanted the secular faction weakened and had funded Hamas to do it. The Mossad also begged Qatar to fund Hamas.
When Palestinians see their children and friends being blown to peices, you must understand they will flock to whatever protects them.
Aside from Israel admitting they let Hamas rise to power to eliminate their enemies without actually being linked to them… Sure I guess?
You should do some reading before going off, because Bibi literally funded Hamas. Look it up yourself.
And what is that more radical political party?
Palestinian Islamic Jihad which polled at 72% against 43% for Hamas.
That said Hamas is becoming more popular now that they have caused his mayhem. They may become once again the most popular party.
https://apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-science-32095d8e1323fc1cad819c34da08fd87
I can’t find those numbers in the link you posted. Can you show me with a screenshot?
Hamas’s popularity or not is irrelevant, since the IDF has stated they are going to eliminate Hamas entirely, and is absolutely poised to do that.
Whether you agree with it or not, Hamas is unlikely to exist by 2024.
They could become the most popular party, but Israel has stated their objective is to completely eliminate Hamas, so Hamas will not exist in the future.
Do you realise most Palestinians living in the west bank prefer an even more radical political party ? Hamas is progressive for Palestine.
This is the exact opposite of the truth.
Hamas was formed because they believed the Abbas-led government was too secular and willing to work with Israel. Hamas wants to create a hardline Muslim caliphate.
I gave the polls, you can look at the Fatah party to see how popular the Abbas led government is. Historically you are right, but right now Palestinians are not looking for peaceful solutions. I think Israel made them understand that they would be slowly annexed.
Edit: also I’d recommend reading the two state section of the Wikipedia article on Hamas.
right now Palestinians are not looking for peaceful solutions
This is incredibly unfortunate for them
They want illegal Israel settler to fuck off and respect the green line and not oppress them or something.
Ohh wait, that’s not Hamas, that’s Fatah of Palestine Authority, which Israel in respond is to oppress them even harder.
Yes, actually. They changed their charter in 2017 to reflect that.
They want peace, so they invaded Israel and murdered 1,000 people.
Makes sense
So many people seem to have no ability to retain memories. Hamas calls for ceasefire in 2014., uses that time to rearm and relaunch another strike on Israel while ceasefire is still going on. Hamas calls for ceasefire in 2023., this time Israel refuses and everyone goes…aaaah murderers. What the actual fuck people?
Did Israel stop destroying Palestinian homes after 2014?
Hamas calls for ceasefire in 2014., uses that time to rearm and relaunch another strike on Israel while ceasefire is still going on.
Did the ceasefire include lifting the blockade? If no then it’s meaningless.
This observation is almost meaningless. No one is defending Hamas.
This person was literally saying that Hamas is seeking peace.
Did you like, not read the comments or what’s up?
I didn’t say Hamas are good guys. But the idea that Hamas doesn’t want peace or that peace with Hamas is impossible is now nothing more than a bold-faced Israeli lie.
https://twitter.com/TheStudyofWar/status/1717359090576322586?t=JHYmtvwLySR9VnQ0pNCeQQ&s=19
Plus you know the 1500 people they murdered and 125,000 they displaced.
Hamas doesn’t want peace. Hamas was genocide against Israel.
Peace with Hamas is literally impossible. They are a terror organization pretending to be a government.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/gaza-plagued-poverty-hamas-no-shortage-cash-come-rcna121099
When did Hamas displace people?
Also of course Hamas doesn’t want Israel to launch a large-scale operation into the Gaza strip. Nobody with two brain cells does.
They’re a violent resistance group. Doesn’t mean they wanna continue fighting indefinitely. Not defending the murder of civilians, but the implication that they don’t want peace is wrong.
Read their fundamental documents. Hamas wants peace and a sovereign Palestinian state where Jews and Arabs can thrive peacefully among each other. Unfortunately the Zionist Entity has a different meaning of peace where all Palestinians regardless of being Muslims, Christians or Jews are ethnically cleansed and their lands settled by White Settlers.
You mean the documents where they call for murdering all the Jews “from the river to the sea”?
Does that sentence contain any call for murder? No.
Israel wanted to be Israel from the river the sea but you don’t see people batting an eye over that.
Does that sentence contain any call for murder? No.
Hamas literally just murdered, raped, and kidnapped a shitload of people. That’s what started this whole series of events.
So yes, yes it does contain a call for murder.
Oh yeah “Arab nation from the river to the sea” sounds very peaceful and totally not like genocide.
Does “Israel from the river to the sea” not sound genocidal then?
Nobody is calling for that
What do you think settlers are doing? Aren’t they trying to take over Palestinian areas?
No
That part of their charter implies Islamic government is the ONLY way for peace in the region. Islam also has rules for those who don’t convert.
Edit: to be clear their laws for those who don’t convert are dogshit.
You can pretend what you want. They clarified it themselves. It means they want to cleanse the land of all Jews.
I’m not pretending, their laws for non Muslims are shit.
There are, yeah, and they’re pretty tolerant of other religions (especially Judaism and Christianity).
They aren’t tolerant of other religions, the fact they even have rules for non Muslims is telling.
Offtopic: Before the war started, I used to think that western media1 (read AFP, AP, Reuters, and BBC) were least biased sources, unlike the corrupt media of my country.
But now I’ve become suspicious whenever a news regarding world affairs is published by them.
1: I don’t consider other sources like the sun, CNBC, etc. since they don’t enjoy as much positive reviews, and aren’t as big outlets as the once mentioned above.
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