Pope Francis condemned the “very strong, organised, reactionary attitude” in the US church and said Catholic doctrine allows for change over time.
Pope Francis has blasted the “backwardness” of some conservatives in the US Catholic Church, saying they have replaced faith with ideology and that a correct understanding of Catholic doctrine allows for change over time.
Francis’ comments were an acknowledgment of the divisions in the US Catholic Church, which has been split between progressives and conservatives who long found support in the doctrinaire papacies of St John Paul II and Benedict XVI, particularly on issues of abortion and same-sex marriage.
Now the pos conservatives are gonna start calling the pope woke. 🤣🤣🤣
They’re already doing that, have been for a long time. I have a Baptist coworker who thinks Catholicism isn’t real Christianity…
I had a Catholic coworker who said some of her Catholic relatives were becoming “Christians”, which turned out to mean Evangelicals.
I think all religions are just fake copycats of the one true god.
Praise be Flying Spaghetti Monster
Ramen
Pork Belly
I mean, most protestant Christians dislike Catholicism, that’s why they are called protestants after all.
The new part is American evangelicals and other extremists thinking that catholicism not being conservative enough…
Baptist coworker who thinks Catholicism isn’t real Christianity…
I’ve seen a lot of that and not just recently.
All religions think all other religions are not “real”, because of their “There can be only one!” Highlander shit.
To be fair, it isnt; but then neither is Evangelicism or Mormonism or any of these other wackadoo cults within which these assholes conflate their hatred and fear with faith.
Conservative Protestants have been saying that for a very long time though. The attitude is so pervasive that my wife, who grew up Catholic (but has not been one for decades), has to be reminded that Catholics are Christians.
To be fair, even the super conservative Catholics aren’t into this pope. Benedict was their jam.
There a whole YouTube channel by some ex fox host called church militant… It’s all about hating gays and lesser religions. They talk shit about the Pope all the time.
It’s like everything in America is just power struggles, selfishness, greed, and crime. There’s no God or respect for life here. The “good guys” don’t even go after the “bad guys” because the bad guys are ahead now. People are so naive here they think heartless crimes are not happening when it’s right under their nose. Sometimes the good guys even get used in the plot. Just look at all the old politicians and Americans that got roped in Rogers stones mob puppeting of Trump. America had a mob affiliate for president. I think that puts in stone… Americas bullshit. It’s going to take decades to get trust and genuine patriotism back.
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Didn’t they recently called Jesus / Christianity woke?
You know you fucked up bad when even the Pope is saying, “Whoa, slow it down there with the fascism, bud”.
American Catholics have largely voted Democrat for much of the last century. This flip-flop to voting Republican is relatively recent.
It seems to me to be a bit of a religio-coup. Bishops have some autonomy, and Priests some as well. It’s become increasingly common that both are in opposition to Rome on certain behaviors related to politics, and exactly how strongly they should be pushing people to vote and for what reasons. The dehumanization of Biden (publicly refusing him Eucharist) for his nuanced pro-choice views is in direct contradiction of papal behavior going back at least to the turn of the 20th century. Telling people that in voting, any sin is forgivable except being pro-choice… well, there’s no basis in Canon Law for that attitude.
I live in a very Catholic area, and have a lot of Catholic family. Talking to them, they mention their priests say “you can vote for either party, as long as they’re pro-life”. The Abortion issue is not the only or greatest issue to Rome. It is AN issue, but disagreeing with the Church is generally not going to earn their full enmity unless you are preaching your disagreement. Biden (the target of that local church smear campaign) is absolutely not preaching pro-choice to anyone.
Pope Francis is right to be saying that because American Catholic Leadership has gone WAY astray from what Catholicism allows or mandates of them.
Conservatives are mostly christian, but if they aren’t catholic the pope has little sway over what they do. And they love dissing catholics so yes they will more than they have been already.
my god that is the best meme ever
Happy to share!
Thanks, ButtholeSpiders!
These christians will drop their Pope before they drop their politics
They already have. Only Roman Catholics really care what the Pope has to say. There are far more Baptist, Methodist, Evangelical, Pentecostal, and Presbyterian in the US than Catholics.
The Pope is the head of the Roman Catholic church, it’s always been the case that only Catholics really care about what he says.
*Roman Catholics as multiple churches claim catholicity that are not associated with The Vatican. For example the Anglican Church claims catholicity.
The Anglican Church is Protestant. Pretty sure they don’t like being called Catholic, they had a whole thing about that.
Just a minor tiff really, just some spilled tea and crumbled crumpets really
Catholicity is unrelated to Protestantism. Catholicity means the church claims an unbroken line from the apostle Peter meaning they are the “real” church
No, Catholic just means universal. This most Christian denominations claim to the the Catholic, aka, Universal Church. In other words, they mean to say they are the correct denomination.
*catholicism
For reasons I can’t explain, many of those denominations don’t even recognize the catholic church as being Christian.
That’s always boggled my mind.
I had many childhood baptist friends who claimed with disgust that the Catholic Church isn’t Christian.
I just can’t see the reason (there isn’t any) other than needing a conservative out group.
I just can’t see the reason (there isn’t any) other than needing a conservative out group.
The reason is simple, actually. The Protestant revolution was ostensibly started with Martin Luther advertising that the pope was the antichrist.
Protestantism was basically the practice of declaring Catholicism to be a false Church. Then it evolved and they got more cordial. After 300 years of bloodshed
I’m pretty sure the reverse is true.
There are some differences in the details of each denominations beliefs enough to mark some Christians as not real Christians. If only God could just make an announcement over the PA to clear things up…
Related: How many denominations only allow their own denomination to take Communion?
That ship has already sailed - I was just with my conservative uncle this last weekend when he complained that the current pope is “woke”
To these people, their political ideology is their religion
Absolutely agree. I am certain ifwe’re real and appeared in person and spouted half the stuff attributed to him in the gospel they would call him “woke” too.
Absolutely no doubt. Kind of surprised no one has done a video series where you anonomize Jesus’s teachings, then read them back to conservative Christians and ask what they think about them
The results would be hilarious, no doubt
Probably because they don’t want Tucker Carlson siccing a mob on them
The pope? They’ll drop Jesus Himself if it suits them
They already have. Been reports of congregations who have complained the the words of Jesus are too woke and weak…
Honestly, I consider that a win. A huge reason I left the catholic faith wasn’t because of the religion itself, but because of the people who claimed to follow Jesus but in practice did nothing like Jesus.
They dropped the Jesus Christ of the New Testament half a century ago, and even then they pretended he was somehow as white as mayonnaise, so why not drop his earthly mouthpiece?
does anyone know off the top of their head how/when Christianity became so tightly associated with the Republican party? No way it was always so extreme in US history
My favourite bumper sticker ever said: The moral majority is neither
Religion is the biggest scourge against humans. Controlling behavior, brainwashing the young and stolen untold trillions of $$. Fuck religion. They all need to be labeled as cults and treated as harshly.
Religion, at its core, is basically rules that state “don’t be a dick.” Unfortunately, all of the dicks didn’t get the message.
It’s not "don’t be a dick’.
It’s “do as we want you to do”
Plenty of the rules are “be a dick, like this:”
Plenty of the rules are “don’t do this objectively harmless thing”
Plenty of the rulez are “do this ridiculously pointless thing”
Yes, modern religion has many rules made by the dicks once they took over. Before the dicks rules were things like don’t steal shit, don’t fuck your neighbor’s wife, don’t murder people, don’t lie about shit, etc. The dicks were so bad that some other guy had to come along and say “seriously guys, stop being dicks”. But the dicks didn’t like that so they killed him.
Plenty of the rules are “don’t do this objectively harmless thing”
Plenty of the rulez are “do this ridiculously pointless thing”
Most declarations of what religions do and don’t don’t do miss Discordianism pretty hard, but you got us on those.
Exhibits: A) Don’t eat hotdog buns. B) Go off alone on a Friday and eat a hotdog with a bun.
Good looking out for us religious minorities.
Ish.
Many religions are more “don’t be a dick to your fellow brothers in faith, but feel free to be a dick to others”. In-group out-group dynamics were historically quite important.
You know - “don’t murder”, but at the same time
10 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. 11 If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. 12 If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 13 When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves.
Also
(19) “You are not to lend at interest to your brother, no matter whether the loan is of money, food or anything else that can earn interest. 21 (20) To an outsider you may lend at interest, but to your brother you are not to lend at interest, so that Adonai your God will prosper you in everything you set out to do in the land you are entering in order to take possession of it.
You know - “don’t murder”, but at the same time Deuteronomy says
If you take each verse at face value, this is a problem and what you imply is true.
But the thing you quoted from Deuteronomy were instructions to the Israelites. It’s recorded history, not instruction. You can’t just point to a verse in the Bible (like Acts 8:8 "Saul, for his part, approved of his murder") and say “see? The Bible says to do bad things!”
And going deeper shows that the Mosaic Law (the laws in the old testament, excluding the ten commandments), part of which is in your second block quote, was superceded by the Law Covenant when Jesus died. Again, it was a law directed specifically at Jews of the time.
You can kinda think of the first five Bible books (called the Torah in Judaism) as a speed run of history. So much happens in terms of time covered in those five books.
I would settle for taxing them.
I think a better option would be stripping the tax exempt status from the ones that politik from the pulpit. Actually enforce the law we have now instead of being afraid of looking like we’re persecuting them. Hell, they all have that complex already anyway.
Taxing them all would just open the floodgates.
Taxing them all would just open the floodgates.
You say that as if it’s a bad thing.
These assholes should deal with a real flood for once.
I dont think the churches that just sit and read a book are really deserving of a “flood”. I also wouldn’t call taxes a flood though, so I’m not opposed to that.
Not good enough. They need to strip that status even from the ones that don’t.
“Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest”
We’re doing pretty good on the king front, lets work on the priests a bit
“Cult” is just something the big congregation calls the small congregation.
There’s a whole list of 8 points over what constitute a cult.
I don’t remember the whole thing, but it was something like : Cults don’t let you leave. If you do leave, your family and friends who are still in the cult will not speak to you. Cults control you in details. They make sure you are tired at the end of the day, too tired to think for yourself. Cults make you dependent financially. Once you are that deep in, leaving means starting over economically.
There’s more, but it is different from how most people experience mainstream religions (I mean there are pockets here and there that are very cultish, but really the religion as a whole is a different beast that just works differently than an actual cult).
Tell me more about how you’ve never been in a church in the south.
I’ve been to multiple churches in the south, like everywhere some are better some are worse.
IDK, if we’re comparing scourges against humanity I’d say “the rich” in general are worse, be they kings, CEOs, religious icons, politicians, or whatever. Their pursuit of money and the power to keep that money corrupts everything. They ruin everything from companies to countries and even religions (makes them even worse).
Really though, the most evil thing is cancer. It kills indiscriminately and tortures its victims the whole way. Even if you win, you never get the peace of knowing it’s truly gone. True evil.
Really though, the most evil thing is cancer
Another reason why, if God exists at all, they’re not worth a penny of my income or a moment of my time.
Yuh if we’re gonna go that deep, the rock are responsible for the deep corruption running thru society, across all society’s ills around the world. I agree that american religion’s descent into facism-promotion is a symptom of that rather than a driving force.
Hitler bent the knee to the Roman Catholics. Nuff said.
Hitler also loved dogs. So there’s that.
Pedo apologist.
Agreed.
I’ll gain an iota of respect for Frankie and Catholics when they unilaterally decide to stop donating money to this church until they purge all of the child rapists and reform their teachings on confessions so child rapists are no longer protected.
You think the Pope donates money to the church?
I like the similar sentiment from a while back:
The messengers and the prophets will come to you and give you what belongs to you. You, in turn, give them what you have, and say to yourselves, ‘When will they come and take what belongs to them?’
- Jesus (but in a text buried in a jar for centuries after becoming punishable by death for just possessing it)
And yet a lot of people are still religious so if you’re running around suggesting destroying the thing they love and feel positive about you might find they are unwilling to listen to anything you have to say. Right now I really would rather we focus on collective action over the climate than worry about whose version of faith is correct.
------ian doomsday fantasy is one of the major drivers of climate change. They have always viewed the world as disposable, indeed, the sooner disposed the better.
What middle ground is there?
I reject that premise entirely.
Maybe anti-religious people need to make an effort to understand how to better communicate their views as frankly many cone across as the same as bigots do.
I dunno if it’s actually possible (for me) to be honest and communicate evenly with the faithful. I cannot see their beliefs as anything other than wishful thinking and fantasy.
Not to say the religious are stupid, i don’t believe in binary smart/stupid in most cases. I know some very intelligent religious folks who have what i consider at best a blind spot for their belief.
I frankly believe it to be impossible. Any discussion where one side has “faith” to fall back on and calls poking holes in religion as an attack on that faith is fated to fail before you start
Don’t talk about their faith then. Talk about what needs to be done and if a member of an Abrahamic faith asks why remind them it’s what God told Adam to do. Genesis makes it clear humanity is to tend the earth not exterminate all life on it.
Well that is a good point. I’m not well versed in the Bible however, and i would hesitate to quote it even if i were. how would it sound to someone faithful to have someone without, quoting their faith at them? It would further require my reading the Bible with the express purpose of busting their chops, which wouldn’t feel good to me.
It’s literally in the first book of Genesis. Takes about 4 minutes to read
When this sorry undeserving species is all dead, alien archaeologists will learn how religion was the biggest, most successful device used by the powerful to sedate the poor and keep their interests driving everything (including destroying the habitability of the planet for short term luxury), from the early civilizations until the very end. Then they will find your comment on an HDD and fucking laugh at you, at all of our stupid asses.
Modern day religion. In the past your faith was quite important and dictated morals. It’s unfortunate it’s been so twisted over the years. And by past I’m not just saying the 50s, but even back in the 1500s.
Religion has sucked shit since it started & the first scam artist started stealing $ in the name of a fake “god”.
Religion has always been a cancer on humanity. We don’t need an imaginary sky daddy for morals. We would have got there (and likely much quicker and much better) without religion.
first Jesus, now the pope is woke? At what point do I start considering that maybe I’m actually the asshole here?
AITA allowing a person with mental illness claiming to be god be put to death?
I’ve (30M) been reflecting on a past decision I made and I could really use some outside perspective. There was this significant event involving a certain crucifixion, and I had a role to play in it. At the time, I was faced with a lot of conflicting pressures and I ended up not doing much to prevent it.
Looking back, I’m starting to wonder if I made the wrong call. I know hindsight is 20/20, but I can’t shake the feeling that I should’ve done more to change the outcome.
What do you think? Was I in the wrong for not taking a stronger stand against what happened, considering the circumstances? Your honest opinions would be greatly appreciated! 🤷♂️🙏
I think most of them just don’t want to do that.
The pope ain’t perfect. But goddamn do I love him stripping corrupt officials of their position, being much more chill towards my queer brothers and sisters worldwide, and telling the US arm to remove the giant sticks from their ass over abortion and divorce.
I hope he lives till 130 and keeps being a stabilizing force for good. It’s a rarity to see religious officials who are not only reasonable, but actively trying to make the world a slightly better place.
You’re just buying into and regurgitating his PR. The Pope talks and acts in opposition to his bullshit platitudes. It’s business as usual gainer the lgbt community in every Catholic Church across most of the world, including the Vatican. He himself is a known homophobe long before he was pope. He continues to ignore and refuses to meet with the victims of protest sexual abuse. He is a bullshiter and I can’t believe anyone on the left buys into any of it
I don’t think a octogenarian virgin who believes in imaginary friends is the authority I’d nominate to lecture me on abortion and divorce.
He said allowing people to transition was as dangerous as nuclear weapons.
Yeah, wow, such love and support.
How high were you when you were this lol
except he did this as a reaction to Catholics leaving in a manner that is basically HEMORRHAGING numbers.
You’re wrong. Pope Francis is the most liberal pope who’s ever existed and has pushed for human rights and decriminalization of the LGBTQ community.
Have you been listening???
In Slovakia, gay adoption AND marriage was on a referendum, and weirdly enough, Francis threw his support because against it. To “preserve the family”
- “Let’s think of the nuclear arms, of the possibility to annihilate in a few instants a very high number of human beings. Let’s think also of genetic manipulation, of the manipulation of life, or of the gender theory, that does not recognize the order of creation.”
So “kill a few million people with nukes” is the same as “gender theory”
- “The family is threatened by growing efforts on the part of some to redefine the very institution of marriage, by relativism, by the culture of the ephemeral, by a lack of openness to life.”
God loves you but you ain’t equal. Homosexuality is a sin, but not a crime. You are welcome in the Church, but you are also immoral and going to hell.
Sheesh, I was worrying a bit there. At least I’m not violating the laws of man.
The Church’s position in general is that everyone is immoral and going to hell without the Church’s help. (See original sin, the sacrament of confession, etc)
He isn’t saying “gay is now ok.” The pope is saying that the sin of homosexuality shouldn’t be treated any different than the sin of lying, greed, stealing, envy, cheating, murder, child molestation, etc.
I think the quote from him below expresses his viewpoint with more nuance than I could:
“The door is open to everyone, everyone has their own space in the church. How will each person live it? We help people live so that they can occupy that place with maturity, and this applies to all kinds of people.”
“What I don’t like at all, in general, is that we look at the so-called ‘sin of the flesh’ with a magnifying glass. If you exploited workers, if you lied or cheated, it didn’t matter, and instead relevant were the sins below the waist.”
“We must not be superficial and naive, forcing people into things and behaviors for which they are not yet mature, or are not capable. To accompany people spiritually and pastorally takes a lot of sensitivity and creativity.”
“Everyone, everyone, everyone, are called to live in the church. Never forget that.”
Oh interesting, had not heard that. I don’t stay updated with the popes latest tbh.
Thanks!
Don’t buy it. He’s still a snake in a robe.
It’s not just that he’s the most progressive pope ever, but supposedly he was elected for exactly that reason. There’s a lot of inertia to change, like anywhere else, but enough of the leadership recognized where they wanted to go, enough to elect him
This is the fruits of the GOP strategy that’s been going on for decades to strengthen their support through Christian believers. The Pope is just recognizing the impact of that from the religious side, whereas Barry Goldwater warned of it’s impact from the political side.
Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they’re sure trying to do so, it’s going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can’t and won’t compromise. I know, I’ve tried to deal with them.
It certainly is a terrible damn problem, and we’re knee deep in the shit right now.
Separation of Church and State: Good for the Church, Good for the State.
Pretty sure it was a Roman Catholic priest that burned all the Mayan texts. The Roman Catholic Church is the largest destroyer and oppressor that ever existed.
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And that conman was (at the very least) a friend of a very famous child sex abuser.
Being called “backwards” by the head of the catholic church is quite something
Broken clock right twice a day, etc.
American conservatives really hate that this pope prioritizes Jesus-y stuff like love, forgiveness, and taking care of your fellow humans.
I have a bunch of Catholic family members that are much more into being angry, fighting to shove dogma down everyone’s throat, and not helping anyone that doesn’t sit in the pew next to them.
Vatican Girl sheds some light on that, great show.
I don’t think that’s very fair, he’s been very consistent in his positions from everything I’ve ever heard about the man. He won’t directly come out in support of LGBT, pro-choice, or contraception, but he hints that the church might be on the wrong side of many issues and is very vocal about the message of love and acceptance
Keeping in mind he’s at the helm of a very large ship in a problematic place that likes to split apart, I think it’s understandable that he balances keeping the thing together with steering in a better direction
Pope is 100% correct on this one. But on terrorist state ruzzia, he misses the mark by a mile https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qirI4eSTNag
Pope Francis has blasted the “backwardness” of some conservatives
Media needs to find another word for speaking up in opposition to something.
and that a correct understanding of Catholic doctrine allows for change over time.
Isn’t god supposed to be unchanging according to their book?
Atheist here. But I’ll put a Christian hat on for a sec.
Humans are fallable. God isn’t. Human interpretation of God’s will is fallible. Therefore the church must adapt as humans become better at diving God’s will.
Hat off.
I don’t think that’s a contradiction. Now I’m going to stand in my garage for an hour and sing, hoping it’ll make me a good car.
I never understood this argument. If God is all powerful how come he leaves his messages to interpretation. Shouldn’t we all just be born knowing the exact wording and understanding?
Ever have a dog? You really love the dog and the dog is smart for a dog, but no matter how hard you train them they won’t really understand you. You can get them to follow a few rules , but after a certain point you can’t really train them much more.
People can’t even handle the few very basic messages that were already laid out.
It’s a way to select the good ones for his next experiment.
Ssssh. It’s just a way to control Pharaoh’s slaves.
Yeah it seems ridiculous now that I’ve deconverted and can finally look at this critically from the outside. It would be like raising a kid by leaving them a letter. If the god existed surely they would have the bright idea to drop some updated material every few decades and maybe make the occasional clarifying announcement to humanity.
Having a collection of religious texts, physically recorded by human hands, that provide information about the religion is a feature consistent with any religion that has a human-fabricated deity. Coincidentally, it is also a feature of every major religion. 🤔
If the god existed surely they would have the bright idea to drop some updated material every few decades and maybe make the occasional clarifying announcement to humanity.
Oh, but God does and coincidentally God’s will always coincides with what the person proclaiming to relay God’s will wants to be true .
If the god existed surely they would have the bright idea to drop some updated material every few decades
this was part of what Jesus was supposed to do, actually.
… and Mohammed… and Joseph Smith…
Depending on which items of Abrahamic scripture you consider canon.
Atheist here, putting in a Christian hat. If you were omnipotent and creating a game, would you make it easy or hard?
If God is all powerful how come he leaves his messages to interpretation.
So that humanity can learn:
Shouldn’t we all just be born knowing the exact wording and understanding?
Then we’d be mindless puppets without free will. The guy, however, doesn’t want to be admired by automatons but people who could decide otherwise.
It’s the ole “if you slip your crush a love potion, is it actually love” problem and, indeed, no, it’s rape.
What if you tell your crush they need to love you or you will throw them in a lake of fire to suffer for eternity while you enjoy sniffing the smoke?
That seems abusive. And maybe somewhat unhinged.
I really don’t want to play Christian apologetics here, yes the whole thing is unhinged, and no I’m not even a Christian, this is all just comparative mysticism for me and I like The Sandman much better.
But specifically as to the hell thing the doctrine of denominations differ, e.g. Lutherans think that faith is not required before you have proof, that is, until you’re standing at the crossroads of afterlife, heaven on one side and hell on the other. Capability to tell the both apart is something you probably should have taken some time to learn on earth, though.
It is possible to make Christianity make sense if, and only if, you interpret things just right. And it will put you at loggerheads with practically all Christians. Been there, done that, either they fall silent or they unleash the full force of their neuroses to ignore you, little in between.
And, of course, originally hell didn’t even exist it was a question of oblivion vs. spend the afterlife in the radiance of god’s presence. Not sure exactly where in the transformation from Judaism to Christianity that one happened but at the very least the vast majority of stuff about hell is bible fan-fiction.
Because that would be boring.
If we had all the answers, we’d be all knowing. If we were all knowing we wouldn’t be distinct beings, we’d just be part of some hive mind that is God. Like an appendage of God.
Free will requires each of us to be beings that have knowledge and the capability to make decisions (even bad ones) outside God’s control.
The old paradox, if God was so powerful could he make a Rock so big even he couldn’t move it? Basically what free will is. Something created by God that can’t be controlled by God. If it we were controlled by God it would destroy free will, which is something a Creator can’t do.
He could be very clear about the law and his expectations (or even the fact that he exists) and we would still have free will to choose to follow the law or not.
Did the people in the bible who actually saw him not have free will? Did Adam and Eve not have free will? Do the people in heaven not have free will?
It’s a commonly touted excuse, but it falls apart under a modicum of scrutiny.
I see your belief system is focused on nitpicking details to avoid the point. Commonly touted among people in the atheist belief system LOL.
Next you’ll say I don’t actually believe in God unless I think the Bible is 100% literal, because that’s the argument you want to be having. But that’s a boring discussion, so good day to you sir.
the atheist belief system
Hilarious.
What nitpicking details are you talking about? You mentioned that if we knew the truth about god and his law we would be a hive mind and not have free will. I was responding to that point, not avoiding it at all. And the rest of your comment is a straw man arguing against some atheist you have in your mind and never once addressed the points I made.
Doctrinally god can remain infallible while altering his message to be what humans of a given time and place are ready to hear and act upon. Are your parents hypocrites for letting you drive a car at 16 but not at 4?
I knew a guy who thought like this, (Rest in peace, Robotech_Master, I miss you everyday)
He was a Christian who had a rather unorthodox way of interpreting the bible.
His take was that God is real, souls are real, and there is indeed a life after this one.
However he didn’t believe in anything supernatural.
He believed God was simply a being beyond human comprehension who didn’t have a good way of explaining the universe to a simple primitive species like man. So he dumbed it down with supersitions and myths in order to keep man heading in the right direction.
For example
God couldn’t get an ancient people to understand shellfish kills you if you cook it wrong, so he just made up a rule that said “You will be killed by my divine wraith if you eat this! So you better not!”
And then when Jesus came along and humans knew how to cook shellfish properly he dropped a line about how “the old law doesn’t apply anymore”
He believes Heaven and Hell, the Resurrection of Christ, and Souls were all legit… and have a rational explanation, man is just too inexperienced to understand the specifics beyond some colorful scripture and a few divinely inspired paintings right now.
For his sake I hope he was right, coming up on the anniversary of his tragic hit and run…
Doctrinally…
Yes, that’s my point with “diving God’s will”.
I’m not sure what you mean by the car-hypocrite bit though.
That is a solid response. Thank you.
Good car? What the fuck are you talking about?
It’s a reference to a quote, the providence of which I know not:
Going to church does not make you a good Christian any more than standing in my garage makes me a good car.
Jesus warned of being like the hypocrites when your relationship to God should be personal (and private).
Ah thanks
All good!
That’s actually more of a doctrine that is made up by the organization and less something explicitly stated in the book. There probably are some psalms or other references that use the word (translated as) “unchanging”, but in context, the original audience would probably not have interpreted it in the same way. Think God’s love and power will never fail, not God will literally never experience anything or change. In the 10 commandments story, Moses has a conversation with god and changes his mind.
Lots of things like this.
The Levitical Law condemning Homosexuality was originally one condemning Pedophilia, but King James changed it in his translation in order to throw off suspicions that he was gay, which he totally was.
It’s actually somewhat more complicated than that, and relates to the evolution of English words. The word “fornication” I believe was in a state of evolution when KJV was written, originally having a meaning more in-line with “married people who visit prostitutes” (a major issue of the day). It quickly evolved to include all premarital and homosexual relations. I’m not sure how cleanly the timing is, but King James himself had male lovers.
I am of the belief that KJV was not anti-gay as written. Language just caught up to it. It wasn’t a big stretch, as homophobia was a common unofficial position pretty much unbroken between 100AD and 1500AD or so.
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Ever heard of the new testament?
What? Definitely not.
At least catholic christianity emphasizes how Jesus brought change to the jewish traditions on how to live “close to god”. Change is a thing in the catholic church, which is exactly why people have tried to make a lot of things they liked into unchanging doctrines over the centuries.
Not really. If you read it Jesus specifically says that he came to amend the word of god. That’s how we got bacon cheeseburgers and cotton-poly blend shirts back. Shame he didn’t say anything about racism or homophobia but what are you gonna do?
The concepts of racism was quite different then as to now and was addressed. Basically the story of the 'Good Samaritan" needed to add the ‘good’ because Samaritans were discriminated against and though of as poorly as racists do today.
Homophobia is basically covered in a bunch of places where in general you are supposed to love and treat people well. Jesus gave MANY examples of directly treating people who were not in good social, or religious, graces with kindness,openness and compassion. Basically the worse someone is the more you have to try and show love. I’m not sure at all how basically the complete opposite is the practice. There is some epic level mental gymnastics to get there.
Now slavery, umm… yeah. God was like , here are some rules on how to treat your slaves. You know because that is a thing and should keep being one. I’m glad this one is opposite in practice.
I mean he’s right, but maybe he wants to add his institution to that list as well.
Dude alienates the last devoted members his org has left. Religion cant change; they got their statues laid out in an unchangeable text.
The hostile takeover of islam is gonna accelerate even more in the coming years and our last bastion is helping that process.
You’re flat out wrong when it comes to the Roman Catholic Church - I don’t know enough about Islam to say whether you’re right about that.
In church doctrine, Matthew 16:18 and 16:19, and again in Matthew 18:18, give ultimate authority to St Peter (the first Pope) and all the Popes that followed him.
Essentially the Pope can decide whatever, and it just is. Tomorrow the Pope could decide that gay marriage and abortion are a-okay, and they would be a-okay as far as heaven is concerned.
He might get lynched and the next Pope reverses it, but that mechanism for change exists, and has been used many times in the past - one notable recent one was when the Pope decided dogs go to heaven, so now dogs go to heaven.
Source: ex-Christian who was very involved within the Church institution.
It (the infailibility of the pope) is also the reason of the great schism of 1054, when orthodoxy split from catholicism, officialy naming themselves ‘the orthodox catholic church’ (meaning basically the catholic church that has the right dogma; people mostly drop the ‘catholic’ from conversation nowadays though).
In the grand scheme of things, it didn’t do much good, eastern orthodoxy is just as corrupt and power-hungry as catholicism.
