So blahaj.zone defederated a whole instance because one community on lemmynsfw has pictures of (verified) adults that don’t look adult enough? That seems… extreme, and rather insulting to the women whose bodies/appearances are supposedly too close to actual children to be worthy of attraction. Glad that’s not my instance, though to each their own.
If it’s as presented in the quote then yeah, this feels like that australian porn law they tried where “if you look like you could be underage, it counts as child sex material” and one specific example from the text was “too small or flat breasts”. Which was just patently absurd.
I seem to remember a guy being convicted for possession of child porn, and the very much adult porn star actually came to his trial to testify in his defense… I’ll see if I can find a link about it, but that will be some risky searching.
Lupe something.
And he wasnt convicted, but was going to. The state had a “medical expert” show up and testify that there was no way an adult woman could look like that. Just 100% sure of himself and smug as fuck about it.
Then the defense called the pornstar to the stand and she was in her late 20s or something and working in the industry for over a decade.
It was something that never should have made it to trial, and gets used a lot as an example for how shit expert testimony can be. The prosecution doesn’t try to find the person who knows the most, they find whoever can do the best job of convincing a jury that the prosecution is right. So the people who do it (some are professional “expert witnesses”) are just the most overconfident people. Even if they’re not sure, they play it up that there can’t be any doubt.
Ah, found the story. That is wild. Also amazing of her to actually fly over to testify, I thought it was in her own country or something. Amazing person! <3
Lupe Fuentes. What’s worse is that she was already registered in multiple US studios since she made films here, too, so the prosecution could have easily verified her documents, which the defense attorney asked her to do. Instead, she had the CBP agent who made the arrest and an “expert” doctor testify that Lupe couldn’t have been more than 13.
Good article on it here: https://reason.com/2010/05/03/porn-star-saves-man-from-incom/
That crap is borderline Puritanism, wtf is wrong with people?
People be saying they aren’t like the other side but they be
Search safe my son.
“personalization settings, son! They activate in response to physical trauma. You can’t hurt me, Jack.”
There’s some further correspondence in the linked post, and yeah that’s basically what it boiled down to. What a strange world. I can’t believe that’s a real law.
lawmakers are not intelligent or discerning people
They’re pandering to voters with laws like that. The politicians probably don’t care.
Makes the story about ChatGPT passing the bar exam a lot less impressive.
Those changes were the sole reason women in the media in australia got bigger tits all of a sudden. Nice!
God I feel so bad for all the women who were in the “illegally small boobs” category. Therapist and psychiatrist visits must have skyrocketed.
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And to think Hannah Hayes is quite old in Porn industry terms. She should be doing milf vids in about 2 to 4 years if my calculations are correct.
Lemmynsfw literally has a community called fauxbait.
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I’m thinking that they may have either made a mistake in picking another community, or that they saw what they thought was content from that community and called it out immediately. Let’s not forget that if anything Lemmy is less immune to the moderator god complex than Reddit. Since most “mods” of Lemmy/fediverse instances are also paying a physical price they feel even more attacked. Rather than just announcing simply “Blahaj has defederated from Lemmynsfw” they made a whole post about it and then talked at length about culture war stuff. A simple “Blahaj states their reason for defederating is due to our hosting of potentially illegal content. We want to remind our subscribers and user that lemmynsfw does NOT support illegal content, will NOT host it and will remove anything that violates the law.” They chose to take it as an insult. It’s just business.
Rather than just announcing simply “Blahaj has defederated from Lemmynsfw” they made a whole post about it
Alas, Lemmy does not provide a way of making a local only post, or that is how it would have been done.
I acted on the report I received, which wasn’t for the jailbait community. At that time, I didn’t even know the jailbait community existed. However, it’s continued existence validates my initial concerns
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You asked for an explanation. I provided one. You respond with personal attacks
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I assumed until someone said the problem community was adorableporn that the problem was fauxbait. Fauxbait gives me seriously sceevy vibes and I ended up blocking it on all three of my accounts (I think. If I havent I will)
The name REALLY doesn’t help. Like, I know the women there are not under age for the most part because I have seen them around since I was in my 20s, which was 20 years ago. It’s not my thing, but there are people who are attracted to slimmer proportions so whatever. Still, the name makes it sound like it’s a CP false flag site.
I could understand it if it were over an actual “fake jailbait”
That community exists on lemmynsfw too…
First of all I want to make it clear that I don’t agree with this defederation, if the models are verified adults then there is no problem.
That said, as a Mastodon instance admin, I wanna explain something to y’all. CSAM is one of those things that you do not want to take your chances with as an admin. Beyond the obvious fact that it’s vile, even having that shit cached on your server can potentially lead to very serious legal trouble. I can see how an admin might choose to defederate because even if right now all models are verified, what if something slips through the cracks (pun not intended, but I’ll roll with it).
My instance defederates a bunch of Japanese artist instances like pawoo because of this. All it takes is one user crossing the line, one AI generated image that looks too real.
Aside from all that, there’s also a lot of pressure being put on many instance admins to outright ban users and defederate instances that post or allow loli/shota artwork as well. You’re quickly labeled a pedophile if you don’t do it. A lot of people consider fake CSAM to be just as bad, so it’s possible that the other admin felt that way.
I’m more lenient on loli/shota as long as it’s not realistic because I understand that it’s a cultural difference and generally speaking Japanese people don’t see it the way we do. I don’t ban stuff just because I think it’s gross, I just don’t look at it.
Anyway what I’m trying to say I guess is that being an admin is hard and there’s a lot of stuff y’all don’t know about so disagree with that person if you want (I do too) but keep in mind that these decisions don’t come easy and nobody likes to defederate.
EDIT: here’s a mastodon thread about the CSAM problem in the fediverse if you’d like to learn more.
If they offered that as explanation there would have been no drama.
Well yeah I’m not like defending them or anything. I just kind of understand where they’re coming from too.
Yeah, but on the other hand it is verifiably not CSAM
The problem is that if it’s hard to tell at a glance, there’s no way to know if actual CSAM gets uploaded there in the future. So what it boils down to is, is it worth the risk? That admin says no, it isn’t, so they defederate.
My Mastodon instance defederates pretty much any instance that allows sexually explicit or suggestive artwork or photos of people who look underage. It’s just not worth it.
then why even federate at all? someone else could post CSAM at any time
I can’t tell if you’re trying to be funny or not but I’ll answer anyway.
There’s a difference between federating with instances that disallow any pornography featuring models/characters/etc who look underage, and federating with instances that allow that type of material. Actual CSAM will be immediately obvious and handled very quickly on the first, but not necessarily on the latter instance.
It’s pretty much standard practice for Mastodon/*key/whatever admins to defederate instances that allow lolicon/shotacon and anything else like that. There are curated block lists out there and everything, we’ve been doing it for years while still federating and we’re doing just fine.
As a woman who spent a good chunk of her adult life looking like a child I had to deal with a lot of pedos on MySpace etc trying to get sick pictures from me. Most of them fucked off once I told them I was in my 20s… it’s disturbing and I find the idea that someone can find childlike attributes attractive to be repulsive. It’s not ok to simulate racism or bigotry for the pleasure of racists and bigots, why is it ok to simulate CP?
The women on the community in question don’t even look “barely legal” but well over 20 in most cases. People are losing their minds over nothing.
So presumably you are repulsed by your partners right?
Like when did the conversation become purely about physical appearance, and instead of the actual moral implications of dating a literal child.
Do you not have to apply your reasoning to anyone who ever found you attractive?
As someone who was in the same shoes as the person you reacted to: I was absolutely repulsed. It’s the main reason why I waited until my late thirties to get a partner for life.
When I got the slightest whiff of the men being with me because he liked that I was short / skinny / childlike that was the end of the relationship. It’s not only superficial, but also highly questionable to find your partner attractive because of these traits.
That’s absolutely nuts. You think it’s akin to pedophilia to find an adult woman attractive. If only you ever actually read up on what exactly pedophilia is I think you would’ve saved yourself a lot of trouble. It is exclusively an attraction to children, it has absolutely nothing to do with being attracted to petite adult women.
Like can you explain what exactly is the moral delimma in finding an adult petite woman attractive?
It’s superficial to find your partner attractive because of their traits? That makes absolutely no sense. Finding literally anyone in the world attrative is inherently superficial, that’s how it works.
Yes as a survivor of abuse as a child I don’t see the big deal with thru decision.
One post in one community and the title of the community.
I think this is an area where there is legitimate debate. They didn’t name the community, but I’m guessing it’s fauxbait, which has in the sidebar:
FauxBait is a place for sharing images and videos of the youngest-looking, legal-aged (18+) girls. If you like fresh, young starlets, this is the place for you!
The title seems to be for “fake jailbait,” so I can understand people assuming it’s essentially simulated underage porn. There will be those who say that as long as the models are legal, it’s fine, and others who say it’s not okay to make what looks like child porn, even if it’s not made with children.
I personally feel that, as long as they’re up front about it being adults, it’s okay for it to exist, even though some of the pics there are a bit gross to me. But I get that people will fall to the left and right of me. If it crosses a line for the admin there, defederating seems reasonable (since they can’t block the community at the instance level).
The community was !adorableporn@lemmynsfw.com
Nothing to do with jailbait
Where did she say that? The admin post I saw didn’t name it. Adorableporn makes no sense since half the pics there are clearly older women.
Look at the link in OP you are commenting on lol
Look at the link in the OP here…
Look at the link in the OP here…
The community in question is “adorable porn”, from what I’ve read.
The concept of which is attractive but bubbly/cute women in nsfw circumstances.
I’m the new mod of !adorableporn@lemmynsfw.com, (not to be confused with !adorableporn@pornlemmy.com) , and since the female gender does not have a monopoly on the word “adorable”, the community is inclusive of all genders.
I welcome all to join in the conversation at pinned post in the community: https://lemmynsfw.com/post/419923
Well that just makes no sense and makes me question the accuracy. I’m not sure that community even skews particular young, though probably at least a little… Adorable doesn’t necessarily mean young and young doesn’t necessarily mean adorable.
The accuracy? Admin posted the conversation
Oh, I hadn’t seen the conversation screenshot. It honestly so much doesn’t make sense that I’m wondering if she linked the wrong sub. I mean, scroll through that one - lots and lots of the posts are cute housewives.
Fauxbait, on the other hand, I could see being debatable. How could they have a problem with the one and not the other? Something doesn’t add up.
They did not link the wrong community. It’s just stupid, nothing more
I thought it was a different community that was causing the issues; the reaction makes much more sense with that one. While I still don’t agree with the defederation it’s not nearly as unreasonable as it first seemed to me. Thanks for clearing that up.
Edit - nevermind, it actually was adorableporn, so yeah still weird.
Full disclosure, I’m guessing - the admin post about it didn’t name the community, but she said something about “intentionally looking underage” or something like that, which is why I assumed fauxbait.
How do you know they are verified adults? Just because someone on the internet posts a picture and says it is? I think it is absolutely warranted to put communities under intense scrutiny which accumulate such content.
I agree. In this case the pictures in question include the model name, who you can research yourself and see is above 18. That community is strictly moderated, and requires model name, source, and age verification.
How do you know anyone is a verified adult? A 17 year old can look like a 22 year old. Should we ban all porn unless its of verified adults? Should one need a license to use their body in pornography?
Do you verify everyone to be of age in all pornographic material you consume? Unless you do, there is a decent chance you’ve unknowingly seen pornographic content involving someone just not quite of age.
To answer your question more directly, pornography companies where images usually originate obviously don’t hire underage actors. Sites for posting/selling self pornography also require documents, but that’s pretty prone to forgery.
When it comes to self posting on social media, all bets are off. Someone not quite of age can post pornography of themselves on twitter or reddit or they can even post it on self hosted blog.
So you have 2 solutions: Ban all pornography of people who would be asked for a driver’s license when they are buying alcohol. So probably like 30+ years of age. Requires a government license to post pornography of self, which would also require disclosing your legal name and other identifiable information when posting pornography.
Or we can continue being pragmatic and use our best judgement while understanding that our perception can’t tell who is 17 years and 363 days old and who just turned 18.
Should we ban all porn unless its of verified adults?
Erm, of course we should? Seriously? I wouldn’t want to accidentally run into that on Lemmy. In an ideal world we obviously should.
Do you verify everyone to be of age in all pornographic material you consume?
I do not consume pornographic material.
Let’s get back to what is discussed here. I never said we should ban all porn or whatever you try to twist my words into.
When a community allows amateur porn that can not be verified, as you state yourself, an instance or person who wants to make somewhat sure they aren’t seeing porn from or about minors should defederate from that instance. Or a user should ban that community. This is especially true if the community hosts “barely legal” porn.
Well no, they defederated because they have a problem with a community that tries to look like they’re underaged. Not individuals looking underaged but they’re saying they don’t like that there is a community for that type of content. It’s fine to disagree with them over the truth of that, but you shouldn’t change their reasoning.
Edit: see the very end of the chat on this comment https://lemmynsfw.com/comment/683605
I’m not sure what you mean about adorableporn trying to make anyone appear underage - I see no indication of that in the post in question, and that’s not the purpose of the community (it would even appear all non-OC posts must include proof of being above legal age). I’m not sure what your second sentence means. I had no intention of changing/mischaracterizing anyone’s post and I find it very ironic you say I did.
Whether or not that is what the purpose of that community is that is what the Blahaj admins believe the purpose of it is and that’s why they chose to defederate.
Edit: See the end of the chat in this comment, it shows what I am mentioning. https://lemmynsfw.com/comment/683605
They’re saying it’s (in their opinion, lemmynsfw admins disagree) a community devoted to crossing the line and appearing to be underaged. The Blahaj admins are saying that’s what the problem is, not just a few random users who look underaged.
The whole point of blahaj is misogyny. I don’t understand why it’s not defederated by everyone.
The whole point of blahaj is misogyny? Here I was thinking it was an instance for queer people named after a shark toy
There was no rule break, mods are pushing an agenda.
Weird drama over nothing tbh
Communities are free to federate with whoever they want;
Consenting adults can do whatever they want.
Now give me a medal
Right.
You missed what the drama is over.
You can’t baselessly accuse whoever you want of posting and viewing CSAM because it looked like it to you, and then continuing to insist on that being the case after being proven wrong.
Yes you can. It’s been proven time and time again that you can in fact just do that. See the very continued existence of mastodon.art, for example
Now give me a medal
Here you go, friend.🏅
For having the most concise, rational take in the thread.
Weird drama over nothing tbh
Welcome to the Internet friendo! Now I must ask your attention for this unnecessarily long post to partake into your indirect attempt (yet it happened anyways) to trigger my emotions and my masculinity with your attempt to bruteforce common sense into our lovely community.
Please do apologize, or else I will forced to report you for ill-mannered behavior.
And if you reply to this, even if its the most sane-rational-intended – then you are a hater and you must cease any attempt to rationalization.
We are oppressed by the fascists enough as it is already.
Apologize. Now.
I saw the drama unfold when I was browsing All. My 2 cents:
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In terms of the content in question, the lemmynsfw admin was right. I believe the community they were talking about was c/adorableporn, which AFAIK is just naked women acting cute, not acting or implying they are underage. The blahaj admin seemed to have misunderstood the premise of the community.
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On the other hand, the lemmynsfw admin didn’t really explain it properly and some of the words they used didn’t exactly help their justification. At one point the admin said they do not discriminate against a poster’s gender, looks, age, etc. and used words akin to saying they do not discriminate against people who are “too young”. Obviously that didn’t come across well in the conversation with the blahaj admin. The community’s rules also had some questionable wording (“child-like” is the term I believe they used), which the mods changed when it was pointed out. So all these things didn’t really help their defense.
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At the end of the day, it’s the blahaj admin’s lemmy instance, so they can do whatever they want and defederate if they wish. It’s up to the users on the instance to decide if it was justifiable and if they are ok with losing access to the entire lemmynsfw instance because of a misunderstanding.
EDIT for transparency purposes: As someone mentioned in the replies, I missed the word “adult” in recalling the statement that mentioned “too young”, so the admin did word it correctly. I stand corrected.
they do not discriminate against people who are “too young”.
This is a misrepresentation of what was said. Was that intentional? It sounds like you are trying to inject your own opinion into what you are presenting as factual and unbiased.
The actual quote I think you are referring to is:
That means no adult on our instance is too thin, fat, bald, masculine, old, young, cis, gay, etc., to be sexy, and that includes not discriminating against legal adults that look younger than people think they should. Everyone has a right to lust and to be lusted after.
I’ve highlighted some key words I think you missed.
I was typing from memory. Now that you pasted the actual quote, I realize the word “adult” was there; so not intentional and I stand corrected. In any case, my point still stands that I think the conversation between the admins could’ve gone better. Maybe the lemmynsfw admin could’ve explained it another way; on the other hand, the blahaj admin seemed to just be looking for a reason to finally defederate and seemed like they already decided before the conversation even started.
You should edit your comment to remove the mischaracterization. The nsfw mod was WAY more clear than what you say.
I did. I added a note but didn’t want to edit what I originally said so readers have context on what I quoted wrong.
Ah, sorry about that. And thank you! I refreshed the comments before asking you to do that. I’m not sure if I missed your edit or it hadn’t shown up for me yet.
Thanks for clarifying your earlier comment.
Hard to know the true motives of the blahaj admin - could be they felt this was the only way to protect their community from a perceived evil, could be they were just offended that the LemmyNSFW admin had the audacity to stand their ground on principle, could be they personally objected to nsfw content and this was as plausible a reason as any to act on the desire to defederate. I see they are still federated with a few other much smaller porn/nsfw instances.
Someone else here mentioned that being an LGBTQ+ instance and allowing association with porn occasionally described as “childlike” isn’t something Blahaj can afford in this political climate.
They’re already being called child groomers. You don’t want something that can be twisted into ammunition by bad actors.
Since I don’t associate LGBTQ+ with child-grooming, that notion never occurred to me. But now that you mention it, and knowing the current sad state of the current political climate, that point sounds entirely plausible. Thank you for pointing that out.
To be fair, I made that same mistake when I read the wording and saw “too… young,” I did a double-take and was like, waitaminute, what are we saying here, before I realized they were referring to adults looking too young. I get they’re trying to be inclusive, it just looks odd out of context.
As to point 2, I think as with the botched announcement about loli/etc on lemmynsfw one of the admins isn’t completely fluent in English
I was told the community is actually fauxbait. But the same applies, no one in there is even remotely underage
Depending on the country, depictions of fauxbait can either be ay okay or borderline illegal. In places like Australia and Ireland, they have laws that are aimed at hentai, but because of the way they are worded, could also include fauxbait as well.
Personally, I don’t even want to toe that line.
Agreed. Legal or not, I wouldn’t even want to encourage that kind of sexualization.
It was primarily over fictional drawn content I believe. With characters where it is not clear to determine the characters age one way or another, which would’ve made moderation difficult. Other users then took this as “they’re allowing for child pornography!” and faked a bunch of outrage over it - successfully it seems.
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Admin from LemmyNSFW here, not the one that posted but an admin nonetheless.
I’m not really down with this being presented as drama as some are trying to, it’s unfortunate the way it played out but overall its their choice to defederate. We actively encourage other instances who forbid pornography to defederate from us. Lemmy.ml, sopuli, etc etc we are totally fine with, we have no malice or hate towards them because thats their choice and their reasons and concerns for doing so are more than legitimate especially with how limited lemmy is right now and the locations that they host their site at. We have open discussions with other instance admins and welcome discussions of their potential concerns, it’s just we didn’t really know what the concerns were beyond “this looks wrong because it looks wrong delete it” which made it extremely frustrating to try to figure out concisely what the problem was so we could address it.
My only issue is it being presented as if we are fine with CSAM, when we aren’t and to be accused of that is extremely serious.
Damn, lotta people here are thirsty for drama. Who cares if they defederated, no one in here is actually a blahaj.zone member, how about you let the users from that instance complain about it if they want to? I find it kinda weird that you’re all jumping on the admin for not wanting to be associated with that instance when it doesn’t concern you at all.
Isn’t that the beauty of the fediverse? None of you are affected by this. What is it that you want? For all instances to be the same? What’s even the point of making your own instance then?
Y’all are fucking weirdos fr. OP doth protest too much.
no one in here is actually a blahaj.zone member
This hurt my feelings
Sry I didn’t mean to :(
It’s okay, I’m here for you fam
It’s this the line for hugs
You do realize that many people on this instance participate in blahaj.zone communities, right? Why call people ‘weirdos’ for actually caring about how the communities and instances which they interact with are ran?
I feel like you’re being unnecessarily inflammatory here. People are entitled to discuss whatever they want to when it comes to the Fediverse in this community, and this topic falls well within that category. No need to attack people for sharing their opinions on the matter.
Of course people have a right to discuss whatever they want, but the fake outrage is a bit much.
The fediverse runs on drama and fake outrage. There’s whole communities dedicated to talking about the latest fedi drama.
I was on that instance and unfortunately had to migrate, but after seeing how the admin handled this, I’m glad I did.
Yeah, but some people love unnecessary drama. It’s the reason most social media has gotten where it has. Stupid drama does nothing but stress me out and make me more of a misanthrope so I try to avoid it.
100% correct take
Not the first time that person was looking around for reasons to be outraged and ban communities. I hope they decide to go isolated and defederate from all instances.
Illegal content should be removed in any case, but there is nothing illegal here.
Illegal where? You can’t run a federated system and keep it functioning AND legal everywhere all the time. There are 100s of jurisdictions, each of them constantly changing the rules.
The fediverse is set up somewhere in the grey zone. It has all the disadvantages of decentralized system (has to communicate with untrusted peers), while also having all the disadvantages of centralized system (having childish admins, who are also bound by their local jurisdictions).
The general direction is good, and the p2p ecosystem is better than a decade ago, but this is still not the final form, I’m afraid.
I’m just glad that there’s a ton of money at stake in the big league, and large ISPs can’t afford to act like this most of the time.
Yes this is a honest concern, I tend to agree that there should be more freedom here, and things like piracy should be allowed. As well as total free speech, none of that paradox of tolerance bullshit everyone is trying to push whenever they want to censor someone.
However, I think though we can all agree that child abuse and CP is not allowed.
You can find an instance that supports the things you agree with (piracy and freedom in your case)
that paradox of tolerance bullshit
How is that bullshit?
Because it’s just a thought experiment that is taken dogmatically, while in reality is just used by fascists to censor the free speech
It’s a thought experiment that was born out of the fucking Nuremberg Trials, you pillock. It was a reflection of what we did wrong as humanity. It’s hardly just some essay some bloke wrote. FFS pick up a history book once or twice.
So, you have no arguments against it, you just don’t like that people use it to shut out intolerant discourse?
By the way, it’s not “just a thought experiment”. It’s a philosophical principle that Popper put out there as self-preservation for democratic societies. You can argue its merits all you want, but you haven’t so far.
Uncomfortable seeing “free speech is a good thing “ downvoted
Trans servers usually are extremely trigger happy with anything they slightly disagree with, so this is very on brand
Removed by mod
doesn’t have to be illegal, to be unwanted, if you want to see all that nsfw stuff, browse that instance and subscribe to it’s communities, the great many of us, don’t want that fucking disgusting bullshit on our feeds without requesting it, is the issue, you see
But you can block whatever communities you want. I’ve blocked a lot of different communities that have content I don’t like, and now they’re not in my feed.
Well maybe its unwanted by you, but it might be wanted by someone else.
I have no problem with anything having its space as long as its legal.
I never saw a NSFW post on lemmy actually, I have NSFW content hidden by default and it works great. Even though I am not interested in that content, I can respect that some people are.
This is also why I think banning communities because someone felt slightly offended is not the way to go. Lemmy already has a good way of moderating content per user, and you can ban communities and never see their content. I dont think instance admins should be removing anything other than illegal content.
Where did all these puritans come from?
America, usually.
Are you serious? America literally has some of the biggest porn producers in the world
US is literally built by puritans. Which were forced out of Europe, because Europe didn’t like them.
And some of the most vocal hypocrites. An entire major political party is essentially based on it and continuously tries to push puritanical beliefs on everyone.
Poof! That’s the sound of 20 million fundamentalists vanishing because you pointed out the existence of Brazzers
Why would you browse an unfiltered feed if it’s not what you want?
I always looked at it like walking down the street. Some people might disgust me, but it’s a shared space. Unless they persnoally harass me, I have no right to attack them.
Can you not opt out of seeing NSFW magazines? I see your acct is on kbin, pretty sure that’s an option.
Kbin users can even block a whole instance on a user-level as far as I’ve heard, which isn’t currently possible on Lemmy.
I’m on kbin and haven’t seen nsfw content on my feed once, you can just turn off the NSFW content in settings
I have NSFW turned on and the last NSFW post I saw was literally just a picture of a cat.
I believe there’s some sort of ‘soft’ filter in place since there were tons of complaints about seeing NSFW posts on the front page. Should be worked out soonish
edit : NSFW shows up properly now
you can block communities in your settings but I kinda agree you should also be able to block whole instances as a user
Sounds like they were trying to find a reason to defederate.
No, nsfw content is allowed on lemmy.blahaj.zone and Ive even stumbled on furry porn on a meme community (/c/196) so its not that.
If we are against lolicon for depicting children in such ways then its perfectly consistent being against stuff that use people (even if theyre adults) to do the same.
Its just IRL lolicon, Im with the admins of blahaj.zone in being against that.
The blahaj admin defederating is totally fair, and it’s the whole point of the fediverse. The dragging the issue into the public view to cover up their own mistaken impression is absolutely silly. The public attack in the form of implication that the other admin is supporting CSAM is sickening. This person comes across as the type to manufacture drama to make themselves seem like a victim. Were I an instance admin, they would be exactly the kind of person I would want to defederate from, as nothing good comes from association with people who like to play victim for attention.
IMO, plenty of nuance lacking in the discussion here.
- Being able to defederate whenever you want is the point of all this. Freedom of association. It’s not a big deal.
- EDIT/ADDITION: someone defederating from something you enjoy doesn’t mean that you can’t continue to enjoy it or that they have defederated from you personally. Each of us managing our own situation here is the whole point. It’s not personal. It’s not about you.
- This especially goes for instances that are trying to create safe spaces for vulnerable people, as blahaj.zone is. To all the critics here, the job of such moderation is probably harder than you realise. There appears to be little empathy for what such an effort is trying to achieve. Moreover, it almost certainly will involve decisions that will not make sense to you if you don’t belong to the instance’s demographic. It’s also ok, given their circumstances, that they make decisions that seem excessive … because they have a bigger job to do than ensuring that they’re not too Puritan etc
- This is even more especially so when it comes to something as intrinsically controversial, problematic and illicit as CSAM.
- Just today a report came out stating that fediverse has a CSAM problem, where such content being masked by appearing alongside otherwise acceptable material is part of the problem. So maybe not fucking around with this shit as an admin makes a lot of sense, and maybe being less cavalier as a community about this issue might actually be necessary if we are all to enjoy our free social media ecosystem. We’ve lost one instance to being carefree about this stuff (vlemmy). And is “adorable porn” so important that it needs defending?
- See Verge Article and Mastodon thread by author of report
You missed a part. Maybe people shouldn’t throw around csam accusations casually and without merit.
Bro this is redd-i mean lemmy, we don’t do that here, it’s shots first, ask later policy
Are women with small breasts considered vulnerable people by blahaj.zone or as pedophile enablers? Does them being gay or minority affect this?
Just today a report came out stating that fediverse has a CSAM problem
OH NOES, a platform (meta) with a strong stake in destroying the fediverse commissioned a study conflating drawings with CSAM?
Stop. The. Presses.
- Being able to defederate whenever you want is the point of all this. Freedom of association. It’s not a big deal.
Even though I don’t 100% agree with the defederation, it’s a bit alarming how quick commenters are to chastise their decision. Why risk being federated with a community that will allow or seek “childlike” NSFW content? That’s just asking for trouble, so I can understand why an instance would avoid being associate with that. That’s a huge risk for someone hosting a fairly large instance, especially with the criticism and accusations the LGBTQ+ community has been subject to recently
Exactly this. Right wing propaganda already portrays the LGBTQ+ community as child groomers who are sexualizing minors.
Forget gasoline or lighter fluid: allowing federation with “barely 18!” content would throw a whole propane tank on that fire.
Right wing propaganda also portrays Sex Ed as grooming, defends child marriage, and regularly threatens anyone they don’t like. Up to and including attempting a coup.
You don’t negotiate with terrorists. They won’t stop because of it, they just get bolder.
The community is similar to something like !pretty_women@lemmy.world with full nudity, but without any kind of hardcore pornography.
The only bad thing they did was include “child-like” in the synonyms that describe the theme, which they corrected themselves before blahaj was involved. They have clear content policies, and it’s clearly adults in the content posted.
Saying you need to protect yourself from this perverted filth is not really any different from what the right wing is doing to the LGBT community.
Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using a URL instead of its name, which doesn’t work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: !pretty_women@lemmy.world
Saying you need to protect yourself from this perverted filth is not really any different from what the right wing is doing to the LGBT community.
That’s an unfortunate exaggeration right? Not wanting to see or deal with communities who feel it’s sexually enticing to look at “childlike” and “barely 18” porn is clearly different from wanting gay, trans and queer people to stop existing.
You can go look at the content posted, it’s not child like, the community isn’t doing anything they shouldn’t be doing.
If you can prove the community is breaking any rules/laws, they should be banned, and if you can’t, you have to accept them.
You are asking for laws based on what you find morally acceptable, it’s a slippery slope, and exactly the same the right wing is doing.
You are asking for laws based on what you find morally acceptable
No, I am not. Wth?
Oh no! Barely 18? As in an adult? Adults in porn?! Call the fucking cops. Not like there is a 1000 porn studios with 18 in their name.
And if you’re taking action because of how right wing propaganda might misinterpret it to paint you in a bad light, that’s just pathetic.
barely 18 is fine with homophobes as long as it’s a blond white woman
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“recently”…
Lemmy needs more tools to help avoid defederation. Like the admins being able to block communities (defederating a community interested of the entire instance), or hide posts from a community/instance from c/All so people who are still subscribed or manually search can still find the posts
Also users should be able to block instances just for themselves, just posts or comments as well
I have the ability to block a community through the app I use, is this not built into Lemmy itself?
no, it’s an app trick. not all apps allow it. it’s on the roadmap to be integrated in lemmy itself btw.
Users can block communities yeah but instance admins cannot. I think instance admins should be able to control what c/All shows to an extent. Figuring out which communities to block takes time and frustrates new users. I’ve seen multiple posts from users complaining about certain communities or posts showing up on c/All and not knowing or caring that they can block communities. And then you gotta think about anonymous browsing, I’m sure many users browse without an account or without logging in, for both Lemmy and Reddit and other sites too, users hate creating accounts no matter how easy you make it.
I agree with this, but there’s even more. Here’s a hypothetical example. Let’s say I want to create an instance that’s a safe space for rape victims in particular. Now let’s say there’s a big instance that’s very popular with some of the most frequented communities, but they also have one for simulated rape porn. Currently, all I can do is defederate or tell every user in my instance they should block the community (which, as far as I know, requires each of them going to the community and clicking “block” from the sidebar). It would be better if an admin could keep a community from showing up for any of their users.
At least connect let’s you block instances.
I have that via Connect on android, but it doean’t appear to do anything.
Weird, I’m using Connect and it works for me.
It’s probably me then. Maybe I need to update. Thanks!
It has those tools. They’re called “Run your own instance.”
It lets you federate with whoever you want.
This is not an answer that will work for growing Lemmy. Most people do not want to buy a server and domain name to use Lemmy, and then they gotta learn how to use Linux and docker and figure out how to get it all working? Most people don’t even know what Linux or SSH is. And then they need to read a huge list of instances to see which ones they want to block? And they gotta worry about keeping it up to date, and security issues, and watch the disk space usage. They would rather just stay on Reddit instead.
Also your solution still doesn’t address blocking/hiding posts but not comments, or hiding posts in the feed but still showing them in searches or in the specific community.
That user has their head so far up their own ass it’s not funny.
I mean, it’s kinda funny 🤣
It is a bit, yes.
That doesn’t seem like a helpful reply. The vast majority of people wouldn’t feel comfortable trying to stand up an instance, and most don’t want to administrate one, but even if they did, it doesn’t address the issue in question. If I want to stand up an instance and be federated with a different one, but they have one community that’s problematic for me, I still have no recourse but to defederate from the whole thing. The suggestion was to provide admins with the capability to block a community at the instance level, and that actually does take care of the problem.
Ah, the good ol’ ‘administrator discretion’. Seems like a classic case of power-tripping site admins doubling down on their opinion while disregarding any notion that they may be in the wrong. Can’t say I’m surprised - it was only a matter of time before we saw this kind of behavior in the threadiverse.
Regardless of how you may feel about NSFW content on Lemmy, this is a huge red flag for lemmy.blahaj.zone, and I would advise against people joining that instance purely based on the admins’ apparent inability to properly investigate or understand the content that they federate with. Hopefully they can clarify their rules in the near future and justify why exactly this defederation happened, or reverse their decision, swallow a little bit of pride, and admit they were in the wrong.
EDIT: More admin correspondence can be found here.
Very ‘my way or the highway’ behavior from the blahaj.zone admins. Really not a good look.
Yeah, not really a huge fan of Ada after this. All this because somebody got confused and refuses to say they misunderstood and move on.
Sorry to the rest of the blahaj community that’s going down with the ship on this one.
It is clear that Ada did not look at the rest of the posts in the community in question. Because the post she had an issue with stands out as an exception to the community instead of being representative of the community. This was handled well by LemmyNSFW and not well by BlahajZone.
I was there, I deleted my account and moved on.
She was also banning a ton of people in that thread for “misgendering” her. Apparently she assumes everyone should open her profile to check her gender before replying.
If an instance is sharing content that another instance finds problematic, then defederation makes sense. Regardless, though, it seems like lemmynsfw is doing their due diligence to handle illegal content. We all know that porn will exist… having good stewards of those communities is vital. Punishing them for providing a (legal) porn platform is counterproductive.
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We should remember that a lot of these services are still young, and definitely did not expect the popularity they got. I know they’re all working on scaling up and adding features, but the teams aren’t huge and they’re playing catchup with established sites (not that Reddit was ever great at moderation.)
It turns out that setting up an Internet social arena is really hard. They have existed for decades, and the core mechanics and content policy make a big difference in the vibe of the communities that arise on it. What may work initially then becomes toxic. It’s very hard to predict where you’ll end up once the Eternal September kicks in.
It’s not a solved problem at all!
Heck, running a Discord server wasn’t all roses. You take a month off and you come back to find a moderator has alienated most of the community by abusing the community rules. So yeah, building the framework AND trying to moderate has to be overwhelming.
Instance admins can block communities, usually you’d do a purge (to erase the “cache” of the local copy of the community) and then block it.
there should be an instance filter for fediverse users so that unwanted content, namely all the crazy disgusting shit being posted on nsfw doesn’t automatically show up in users feeds
You can turn of NSFW content in your account settings if you find it objectionable. This is on both lemmy and kbin.
You’re on kbin. You already have a NSFW filter.
I think, like most people who seem to bitch about NSFW stuff on their feed, is that they want to filter out all the stuff they’re not into and leave all the stuff they are.
Which, while I sympathize with, is something they need to deal with themselves rather than something that someone should be doing for them. Back when reddit had NSFW content on all, there were a bunch of subreddits that I didn’t want to see. So I blocked them. Because my opinions are my responsibility, not anyone else’s.
Blocking individual communities / magazines is also possible on kbin. But I guess some people just want to cry for the sake of crying. The only thing that doesn’t quite work is blocking actual instances, which the GUI supports, but it does not actually block communities from that instance.
Weird. It seems like they were concerned with adorableporn.
As if adorable is a trait that only children can have.
Honestly, this drama every time an instance decides to defedarate needs to end. Freedom of association exists. If someone decides the don’t want to be around you for whatever reason that’s their right.
I just went to blahaj to check their post on this and the majority of people there seem okay with this decision, and those who aren’t are free to go to a different instance.
One good thing about lemmy is that an instance defederating from yours doesn’t affect you in any way. Your content isn’t being taken down and can still be viewed by those who want it.
Isn’t this the whole point of the fediverse? Freedom to choose by yourself what content you want instead of having a central authority decide for you and being stuck with that choice?
Yet every time something like this happens there’s drama. It’s absurd.
It’s not so much the fact that they defederated that’s noteworthy here, it’s the fact that the admin chose to do so based on a misunderstanding and refusal to admit that they were wrong about something which is concerning.
If the instance just said, “we are noping out of all Porn and sexual based NSFW instances,” then there would be no drama. It needed no justification or explanation beyond that.
From what I read there it sounds like the admin is not okay with the idea behind the sub even if it didn’t turn out to be child porn. So, it started as a misunderstanding, but the reason to defederate is different opinions about what content is acceptable.
