In Hitler’s defense, he did kill Hitler.
Yeah, but he also killed the guy who killed Hitler.
but he also killed the guy who killed the guy who killed Hitler
To be fair, he also killed the guy who killed the guy who killed the guy who killed Hitler.
honestly can’t fault him for it.
I dunno, it took him ages; should’ve been higher up on his todo list.
I understand the concept of appealing to a better nature but, ma’am this is America. We still revere Henry Ford, we imported Nazi scientists because of some self imposed space race. Outside of WW2, (where we didn’t even voluntary join we needed to be attacked first) our history shows were far far more likely to ignore or tacitly support fascism. Be careful asking questions you don’t want the answer to Harris.
We still revere Henry Ford
I wonder how many Americans know about Ford’s quest to reignite antisemitism in Europe by foisting “Protocols of the Elders of Zion” books at every one of his overseas car dealerships.
I wonder if we’ll shove all Elon Musk’s reactionary bullshit down the rabbit hole when his legacy think tank full of right wing psychos is sponsoring the next generation of History Channel and TLC episodes.
Reagan: “If fascism ever comes to America, it will come in the name of liberalism”
The politically literate: “But, Ronny, you’re a (neo)liberal!”
Sadly, yes.
I’m really hoping “It’s a close race…” is code for “Harris is favored to win, but we rigged the polls to show them neck and neck so that there’s still a news cycle.”
there is a 100% chance of Harris winning the popular vote. Unfortunately billions of dollars spent on like 100,000 people in 7 states will be what decides the election and there’s a 1% chance of a tie which will throw it to the house of reps for some reason.
The need to reform the electoral college and ban gerrymandering has never been greater
“The constitution is meant to be a living breathing document to be updated and amended as per the country’s need, not some holy scripture that must be taken at its word.” - The Founding Fathers
Conservatives: And I ignored that completely.
Yeah its less a “constitution” and more a “treasured dead artifact” these days, like the foreskin of some 11th century pope entombed in a glass jar in a catholic church.
I’m worried cause I see the Democrats doing the “smart” thing of finding the exact counties they need to win. And aggressively pushing and trying to play to them alone.
And that doesn’t seem like a smart strategy. In fact it feels like Hillary or Disney’s failings where playing it safe and doing “smart” math doesn’t work to do something productive and barely scrapes them by.
I don’t see this being a landslide. And I’m worried their math will mean nothing in the real world.I love how “playing it too safe” means “That wasn’t safe at all”
It’s kinda like how prevent defense in football sometimes (or perhaps even often) prevents teams from winning.
Playing aggressive versus conservative is how you shepherd limited resources.
Do you stretch for extra seats in the House/Senate by spreading your money/people thin? Or do you concentrate your effort in highly contested battlegrounds to boost your odds locally, while sacrificing possibly winnable races elsewhere?
There’s arguments for all sorts of strategies, but a lot of it comes down to where the gettable extra votes are. Some races come down to strategy. Otherwise simply aren’t changeable at that stage of the fight.
“It’s a close race…” is code for
Nothing so auspicious. It’s more “we never actually have a clue, because our job is to sell ads not tell you useful information”.
News media had Obama in a tight race when it was a blowout. They had Hilary in a blowout when it was a nail biter. They called Florida for Al Gore early on election night. They aren’t honest or useful or knowledgeable in any way that makes them a valuable source of information.
Hopefully it’s that and not “we rigged the polls to give some credibility to whatever bs Trump is planning”.
Oh God!
Calling Trump a fascist just makes his supports love him even more.
It also reinforces who he is to less hard core supporters which may have a positive effect over time.
Americans only hate Hitler because he’s a loser. If he’d won in Europe, we’d lionize him the same way we celebrate reactionaries like Churchill, Reagan, and Shinzo Abe or despots like MBS, Duterte, and Modi.
trump literally compared himself to Victor Orban
The brown shirts loved Adolph.
Yes because there’s a lot of Nazis and Nazi sympathizers in America currently.
He sleeps with My New Order by Hitler next to his bed. Wants to be a dictator on day 1. Sees good people at a Nazi march. Wants generals like Hitler’s. By George he just may be a Nazi. - Edited
He sleeps with Mein Kampf next to his bed.
Not Mein Kampf, but rather My New Order, which is a collection of Hitler’s speeches. Trump is a fan of Hitler’s propaganda and rhetoric specifically.
Does he actually read though? Dude is weird, I guess, maybe its like some kind of security blanket; we gotta love the most racist guy we can find even though he lost his wars and shot himself in the head.
But her emails, I mean but his son’s laptop, I mean…
Didn’t Hitler’s generals try to assassinate Hitler?
Yes, pretty sure it may have been multiple times. Rommel was implicated in one of the plots and was why he was forced to commit suicide.
Yes, but you have to remember Trump’s a “Very Stable Genius”
Per the book, [former chief of staff] Kelly explained to Trump that German generals “tried to kill Hitler three times and almost pulled it off.” “No, no, no, they were totally loyal to him,” the president is said to have responded.
…I’m not used to hearing the word “totally” in an unironic and non-sarcastic context.
I can only read this guy’s name in Chris Barrie’s voice. God damn it Red Dwarf
Even Hitler tried to assassinate Hitler
His success is his greatest achievement
Hitler wasn’t all bad, he did kill Hitler.
Shame he waited until the end, instead of doing it at the start though.
I really wish Fascists would just follow their leader in a “We all know where this is going, let’s just skip to the end.” sense
After they started losing I believe they did.
The only good thing they did, well tried to do.
Never did I suspect this Stephen Lynch song to not feel completely outlandish.
this kind of rhetoric will never work against somebody who was already president. Her campaign has made a mistake, which honestly shouldn’t be big enough to crash the election but its the US and the electoral college who the fuck knows how 5000 psychopaths in swing states are going to vote after being bombarded with record breaking levels of insane propaganda…
It should be clear that the easy way to campaign on trump is to hit him hard in the economy: He had to bailout farmers because of his first round of tariffs. US steel still hasn’t recovered. Trump tariffs will not only raise prices but the resulting bailouts will drastically increase inflation and eventually he will run out of scapegoats to blame his failures on so however loyal to trump you seem to be, eventually he will blame you and send the military on you for criticizing him
edit: Just to clarify what she’s saying is correct, its just that voters swayable to this argument have already picked sides.
I really don’t understand why neither the Harris or Biden campaign just roiled out footage of the Covid-19 lockdown in a short film titled “Literally the last time this motherfucker was in charge”
Cause ya know, that would work…
They’re holding pat with, “Hey, we’re not the other guy. And that should be enough.”
And anyone who says, well maybe that’s not enough, gets lambasted.
Yeah, but you could say “We’re not the other guy… who did THIS, and that should be enough.”, point out WHY the other guy is bad…
It’s “Oh yeah, we never actually asked him what he believed would make America great again… whoops.” from 2016 all over again.
In my heart of hearts, I still feel like we’re heading to a Kamela victory, but then we look at the polls…
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Didn’t they already do that at least once?
The direct Hitler praise hadn’t come out before 2016. There were certainly many other serious red flags though.
Does she really wants the answer to that or is that a joke question?
Yes. Yes they will.
I’m not so worried about what they’re both saying as much as the fact that they’re both actively supporting a holocaust.
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Nobody needs to invoke Hitler to say infrastructure spending is good.
It was just an example because just last week someone was claiming Germany should stop using the Olympiastadion in Berlin only because it was constructed for propaganda reasons.
The fact that Hitler is responsible for that doesn’t necessarily make it bad. A horrible person can also do a few things right. You can acknowledge that without praising the guy.
Democracy is all about that gray area where compromises are found
That gray area which allows for oppressing the masses in order to enrich the few? I am happy to say that human economic activity, as immoral as it is, seems to be reducing the chances of humans surviving. Good riddance to this kind of ignorant trash, and I hope your money helps your descendants when your decisions kill them.
I’d live to overthrow capitalism today rather than tomorrow - I just know that there are too many egoistic assholes out there that would just abuse whatever socialist system we would implement to fuck people over. The same kind of people that today have established themselves as billionaires - only that today it’s only a couple that managed that and I’d assume that between 20 and 40% of the population are completely ignorant of others if they think it helps themselves in the short term.
All I’m saying is that we should work together towards a goal that helps everyone instead of splitting the population and creating infighting which only helps those that are already on top.
If there was a common ground between Democrats and Republicans that certainly would be a shared interest to limit the power and wealth of “the elite” - it’s just that both sides have made it impossible to even talk about common ground and within both parties those wanting to reduce the wealth and influence of rich people are the minority and to divided to act.
Damn, if only there was someone in history other than Hitler to praise for investing in infrastructure, speaking charismatically, and being in power while other people built cool buildings. 🤨
Guess we’ll have to ignore the extremely obvious context of praising Hitler for any reason whatsoever, because it’d be terrible to be unnuanced about a mass murdering bigot.
I’m not praising Hitler at all. I’m only saying that people are deliberately ignoring that he didn’t do everything he did because he wanted to be evil, but because he had a (horrible) vision for the world. And not all aspects of that vision where inherently evil.
Humans just have the tendency to put everything into boxes of good or bad. It’s uncomfortable if something is not fitting 100% into one of those boxes. And from my experiences people almost never fit 100% into those boxes.
Even serial killers sometimes have grandmas they lovingly took care of.
Even child-rapists have friends they support when they need help.Sure they still are monsters - but they still are humans, too
I’m not sure I’m particularly clear about the distinction you’re trying to make between wanting to be evil, and having a world view that requires you to do a ton of evil stuff.
If we humans have agency, then surely our worldview is at least somewhat a decision we’re culpable for.
Also, there are times it’s appropriate to discuss certain topics, and times it is not. A dissertation about the upsides of Hitler is not relevant to Trump being compared to Hitler, unless you intend to make the argument that Trump being like Hitler might also have some upsides.
Save it for where it belongs: a history book.
There are people that get off on other people suffering and that want to create as much suffering as possible.
Those people are evil.
Hitler had an agency that saw people suffering as a means to an ends. That doesn’t excuse any of it and taking that route to get to that goal certainly is an evil decision, but that doesn’t automatically make the goal a bad one (in this case it was since the Holocaust was pretty much the goal and not just the way there).
Perhaps I’m using the wrong words as it’s not my native language but I think there are things he did that aren’t automatically bad just because it was Hitler who did them. That’s not praising the guy - it just acknowledges that even a broken clock is right twice a day and not always showing the wrong time by default.
I’m not praising Hitler at all.
You very much are, just not praising him for the bad things he did
I thought given the subject of the thread it was obvious that I was referring to Trump praising Hitler, not that I was accusing you of praising him.
And given the state of the world, I devote about as much energy to caring about the dehumanization of Hitler as I do for the welfare of Guinea worms. In a perfect world, sure, everyone should have an understanding that everyone is a person and not a cartoon caricature. And that world is never going to exist if you stand around letting presidents praise fucking Hitler.
There aren’t many things in life that are truely black and white. That being said, hitler IS one of those things.
Hitler = bad guy.
There is no arguement. None. NONE.
Zip it.
I never said he was a good guy? I just said that not everything he did was bad.
Are you disagreeing that his vision about the Autobahn or the founding of Volkswagen or the construction of things like the Olympiastadion are not good things despite the huge amount of horrible shit he did?
Are you not acknowledging that he was more charismatic in his speeches than many other people despite all the hateful things he fueled using that skill?How is it so hard to see someone that’s clearly an enemy of everything we stand for today as a human and not as some supernatural evil? I think doing this is just helping the populists divide their countries even faster. There needs to be an understanding of why people follow those kind of guys and which things they are doing are not inherently evil to see why people were drawn to those characters.
I’m not saying you should compromise with Nazis. I’m in fact politically active here in Germany to oppose the CDU making deals with the AfD on a local level. I’m only saying that even the Nazis didn’t do things because they wanted to be evil - they did it because they had a different (horrible) vision of the world. I think it’s important to not see anyone as 100% evil as that is just a very cheap way to not have to think about uncomfortable things
Volkswagen used forced labor from concentration camps. I don’t think there’s any way to argue that a company built upon human suffering isn’t evil - or at least wasn’t at the time.
The Autobahn was built using forced labor of re-education camps, prisoners of war, prison inmates, and Jews from concentration camps. If the Wright Brothers made the first powered flight in an aircraft built of human flesh from murdered victims, nobody sane would be celebrating their achievement.
There is NOTHING honorable about causing harm to others so you can have more for yourself.
Do you actually think that’s what Trump likes about him? It appears black and white to us because we know that ain’t it.
No of course not - Trump’s a huge buffoon that loves dictators just for the fact that they are dictators. I was just referencing the “Are You Really Going to Elect a Guy Who Has Good Things to Say About Hitler?”-Part, since that in itself for me is not automatically a negative.
Ignoring that Hitler had positive traits, too, and pretending that people voted for a guy that was evil in all aspects is convenient but very dangerous - especially since it enables people voting for populists like Trump to pretend that he can’t be as bad as Hitler (which is probably the case - but if Hitler is painted as this absolute evil it’s actually very easy to make this claim without a second though. If you see Hitler as an opportunistic asshole that wasn’t inherently evil just for the sake of it then that comparison is a lot closer.
Demonizing Hitler as some kind of comic-book villain is ignoring how complex the situation leading up to him becoming leader of the Third Reich was and how people didn’t see him for how bad he was until it was too late.
Under the circumstances it seems such a small quibble to spill so much ink over, unless you are trying to make the larger point that we ought to be more aware of the conditions that make the rise of a bloody-handed dictator possible in the first place? I think that would be worth talking about, but the point was difficult to see at first.
He said he wanted his military generals to look like Hitler’s
In their book, The Divider: Trump in the White House, Peter Baker and Susan Glasser reported that Trump asked John Kelly, his chief of staff at the time, “Why can’t you be like the German generals?”
[…]
According to Baker and Glasser, Kelly explained to Trump that German generals “tried to kill Hitler three times and almost pulled it off.” This correction did not move Trump to reconsider his view: “No, no, no, they were totally loyal to him,” the president responded.
[…]
This week, I asked Kelly about their exchange. He told me that when Trump raised the subject of “German generals,” Kelly responded by asking, “‘Do you mean Bismarck’s generals?’” He went on: “I mean, I knew he didn’t know who Bismarck was, or about the Franco-Prussian War. I said, ‘Do you mean the kaiser’s generals? Surely you can’t mean Hitler’s generals? And he said, ‘Yeah, yeah, Hitler’s generals.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2024/10/trump-military-generals-hitler/680327/
Yes of course they will. Trumps cultists know exactly what he is and they vote for him because of that.
It’s sad how true that is. I was talking with a conservative about the “enemy within” shit and with a straight face he said that’s how half the country feels. Ok dog, see you on the other side of the civil war I guess.
Sadly, politics are so f***ed up that I have to agree with something Trump has said: He can shoot someone in Times Square and not lose a single vote.
That’s what happens with cults.
As Cady Heron once famously said, “The limit does not exist.” Nothing, absolutely nothing, will cause him to lose support. The people who support him love him more than anything, and they will do whatever it takes to support him. They will break their own moral code, they will bend over backwards to make his rhetoric fit their morals, they will turn their back on everything they’ve ever known or loved if that’s what it takes to continue to support him. Because he is the most important thing in their lives.
Idk how old you are but there used to be discussions about how we can beat terrorists, a group of people who willingly kill themselves to inflict damage. How do you beat an enemy in war who views their own death as a victory?
That’s what we’re up against with trump. There is no inroad, there is no common ground, there is no logic. It’s a cult, plain and simple. How do you stop someone who wants to die for their cause? Maybe trump supporters don’t want to literally die for him, but they damn sure would give up everything else for him.
What if he shot a supporter though?
That supporter was secretly working for the Deep State.
And he will call the family to apologize and check in… after the media calls him out for not doing so, but only after a Democrat tries to do so and is rejected because the family still supports Trump despite all that happened.
The supporter’s family would line up to suck his asshole in appreciation.
Yeah, but the dead guy is still minus one vote.
Cheney did. That friend then went on national television to apologize for being in the way of his shot.
No true Scotsman gymnastics then carry on as “normal”
It was self-defense! It was only a matter of time before that supporter realized what Trump was really doing, and they weren’t likely to be happy about it.
If Harris shot someone in Times Square right now, would she lose your vote?
Yes, just like if Trump raped someone, he would lose my vote.
Oh my bad, did I just “whataboutism?”
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Depends, who did she shoot?
I disagree my good sir. If Trump shoots someone, there might be a possibility he gets an increase in votes.
