That’s not really comparable. When any citizen of a country gets lost either at sea or on land, large probably also multi million dollar searches are performed.
The difference is more to do with whether they’re immigrants or natives.
This isn’t true. This is only a recent politicized phenomena. It never used to happen where people would excuse letting migrants drown. And I highly doubt any government rescue team checks your passport before dumping you back in the water. This only happens because of how highly politicized this issue is.
You’re right actually, I can’t find a source that says governments have a duty to protect their citizens, so by extension, there’s no argument to only use your forces to protect citizens and not non-citizens
But it is also absurd that we, on one hand, agree that all human lives have equal worth… and on the other straight up consider a citicizen to be worth more than 1000 non-citizens.
I don’t know how one can possibly argue that it is humane and in line with what we say our values are.
I think it also has to do with the fact they’re illegally crossing. If an American or a Filipino got lost in Europe they’d still search for them. Hell, every year here in Croatia we have to rescue Czechs who climb up mountains in flip flops.
I guess the reason is that what they’re doing is illegal, and you don’t have enough resources to track and save every single migrant ship.
I mean, I don’t remember hearing Frontex or national coast guards completely ignoring sinking ships, they often try to save them from what I know, they just don’t have as many resources.
But I do think rescue capabilities could be improved. I don’t know how hard it is, but I feel like with modern technology, setting up radar combined with satellite imagery shouldn’t be that hard. Ships stick out of the water a lot, so tracking the ships that are out of place shouldn’t be too hard.
Regarding immigration, once I believed we should take in all refugees, but now I’ve come to realise that it’s more complicated. Untill we figure out how to properly assimilate them into society, it will only lead to problems and disappointment on both sides. If immigrants huddle up into segregated communities they won’t assimilate, they’ll be poor, and that’s the source of all conflict. I don’t believe they’re any different from us, nor that their cultures are completely incompatible, but if they become segregated they will be ostracized from society, they’ll be poor and resent society for shunning them. They came to this land from so far away, hearing promises of how great it is, and then they live worse than they did back home. That leads to crime, more resentment and racism, leading to them having an even harder time. It’s a brutal cycle.
I don’t remember hearing Frontex or national coast guards completely ignoring sinking ships
Are you serious? Or do you mean to say you did not hear about them ignoring ships since they are usually watching them drowning or even actively trying to sink them?
They came to this land from so far away, hearing promises of how great it is, and then they live worse than they did back home.
Ahh, so you are just helping them by denying basic human rights of seeking for asylum and a better life. That’s too kind of you.
And the fact that these responses are from two completely different countries and continents. Unless you’re talking about the media response, which OP has specifically said he’s not. He’s more concerned about having to pay taxes.
If you’re not talking about media response then the whole conversation is pointless. It’s not “hypocrisy” that Canada and the US responded differently from Greece to a crisis next to their waters
Neither. I’m insisting on intellectual honesty by asking how the US and Canada’s response to a missing sub off their own waters is relevant to the Greek response to missing migrants off theirs.
If they meant it as “ahh I hate the governments who ____” then I sincerely withdraw my statement and apologize for misunderstanding. But they clearly did not mean that.
That’s not really comparable. When any citizen of a country gets lost either at sea or on land, large probably also multi million dollar searches are performed.
The difference is more to do with whether they’re immigrants or natives.
Small correction, it has to do with whether they’re citizens or not.
But being a billionaire also helps.
Non-citizen lives don’t matter? Do you ever check someone’s passport before saving them from drowning? Ridiculous.
Obviously not, but as a government body that’s what the criteria is
This isn’t true. This is only a recent politicized phenomena. It never used to happen where people would excuse letting migrants drown. And I highly doubt any government rescue team checks your passport before dumping you back in the water. This only happens because of how highly politicized this issue is.
You’re right actually, I can’t find a source that says governments have a duty to protect their citizens, so by extension, there’s no argument to only use your forces to protect citizens and not non-citizens
But it is also absurd that we, on one hand, agree that all human lives have equal worth… and on the other straight up consider a citicizen to be worth more than 1000 non-citizens.
I don’t know how one can possibly argue that it is humane and in line with what we say our values are.
I think it also has to do with the fact they’re illegally crossing. If an American or a Filipino got lost in Europe they’d still search for them. Hell, every year here in Croatia we have to rescue Czechs who climb up mountains in flip flops.
I guess the reason is that what they’re doing is illegal, and you don’t have enough resources to track and save every single migrant ship.
I mean, I don’t remember hearing Frontex or national coast guards completely ignoring sinking ships, they often try to save them from what I know, they just don’t have as many resources.
But I do think rescue capabilities could be improved. I don’t know how hard it is, but I feel like with modern technology, setting up radar combined with satellite imagery shouldn’t be that hard. Ships stick out of the water a lot, so tracking the ships that are out of place shouldn’t be too hard.
Regarding immigration, once I believed we should take in all refugees, but now I’ve come to realise that it’s more complicated. Untill we figure out how to properly assimilate them into society, it will only lead to problems and disappointment on both sides. If immigrants huddle up into segregated communities they won’t assimilate, they’ll be poor, and that’s the source of all conflict. I don’t believe they’re any different from us, nor that their cultures are completely incompatible, but if they become segregated they will be ostracized from society, they’ll be poor and resent society for shunning them. They came to this land from so far away, hearing promises of how great it is, and then they live worse than they did back home. That leads to crime, more resentment and racism, leading to them having an even harder time. It’s a brutal cycle.
Are you serious? Or do you mean to say you did not hear about them ignoring ships since they are usually watching them drowning or even actively trying to sink them?
Ahh, so you are just helping them by denying basic human rights of seeking for asylum and a better life. That’s too kind of you.
American, sure. Filipino? Hard doubt. Source?
And the fact that these responses are from two completely different countries and continents. Unless you’re talking about the media response, which OP has specifically said he’s not. He’s more concerned about having to pay taxes.
If you’re not talking about media response then the whole conversation is pointless. It’s not “hypocrisy” that Canada and the US responded differently from Greece to a crisis next to their waters
Are you asserting that the US wouldn’t do this, or is this just for deflection’s sake?
Neither. I’m insisting on intellectual honesty by asking how the US and Canada’s response to a missing sub off their own waters is relevant to the Greek response to missing migrants off theirs.
Would you like some examples of the US treatment of migrants from Mexico? I thought you’d be aware.
So migrant lives not mattering to people like you is true. Good to know you at least confirm that part of the meme. Disgusting.
Hold on a moment. They didn’t say that they didn’t care about the lives. They were stating the viewpoint of the governments that send out the S&R.
They’re providing that as justification.
If they meant it as “ahh I hate the governments who ____” then I sincerely withdraw my statement and apologize for misunderstanding. But they clearly did not mean that.