Very bullish on the EU economy. Cutting edge products produced, highest standard of living and satisfaction in the world period All the doomsday scenarios are made up by Yoghtos
Yup, you’ve found me out. I own politico.eu and use it to publish made up doomsday scenarios.
@yoghtos you are spreading doomsday scenarios on the EU on a daily basis. Spreading nothing else but chaos, even though you are not living there. So, you don’t even have the faintest ideas what is in the EU. Only a payed “professional” troll does this working for e.g. Russia
Try reading your comment when you’re sober and you’ll just how deranged it is.
You are doing this on a daily bases. You are a troll!!
seethe and cope
Except for that one practical example from France, which is some artisan glass producer with facilities (judging by the pictures) unaltered since the 1960ties that is temporarily(!) halting production, the article is very nebulous on actual examples of this happening. It also mentions BASF is passing, but they are downsizing because of comparatively low demand for their products in the last decade(!) in Europe and the somewhat higher than usual energy costs are just the final nail in the coffin for them.
Personally I think all of the companies that do struggle right now because of energy prices (and not other reasons like the case for most), would equally struggle if any kind of even slightly serious carbon credits would be introduced. Feel free to disagree on that, but I think those are long overdue and thus I don’t really see a problem with these companies shutting down. Europe as the largest economic block in the world can survive that.
Here are a few more examples for you.
- Mainzer North Channel Bank, founded almost 100 years ago declares bankruptcy.
- Zippendorfer Landbrot GmbH bakery chain, in business since 1925, now bankrupt.
- Bicycle manufacturer, Prophete, founded 110 years ago, insolvent.
- One of Germany’s largest nursing home operators, the Convivo Group has filed for bankruptcy.
- Shareholders stop financing brewer Jakobiner Bräu sending it insolvent.
- Transmission manufacturer Zimm in Ohorn is subject to provisional bankruptcy.
- Lighting systems supplier, Bäro is insolvent.
And while you may be correct that the same types of companies would struggle due to carbon credits, the reality of the situation is that deindustrialization leads to loss of sovereignty as it makes countries dependent on other nations for essentials.
Playing games like creating a carbon credit for domestic emissions and then simply moving production to places where there are looser regulations doesn’t help addressing the problem of climate change either. This scheme is simply designed to appease gullible people in Europe who worry about climate change without understanding the first thing about the economy.
Just looking at the list above here I can already see multiple examples of companies struggling that have nothing to do with the somewhat higher energy costs.
As for carbon credits… you have to start somewhere and you can’t control the whole world. And it is better to start in a rich place like Europe that can deal relatively well with the resulting temporary competitiveness problems. Usually these things also drive innovation thus sooner or later you end up more not less competitive.
That’s just flat out false. A rich place like Europe should be focusing on producing things it needs itself using clean energy sources. That’s an actual start. Simply externalizing these costs is literally helping nobody. So far the only innovation I see is in the creative accounting department where Europe makes itself look as if it’s doing some sort of a meaningful transition to clean energy.
You seem to have a very peculiar understanding what actual carbon credits would mean. But we are getting off-topic here and I am tired of discussing with you all the time.
Nah, I have a perfectly realistic understanding of what carbon credits mean in practice and the track record this approach has over many years now. The theme of these discussions is that you make claims that don’t stand up to scrutiny, and then slink away when pressed on them.
And you always try to change the topic when it becomes clear that you gotten yourself lost in absurd statements. In addition you have some unhealthy obsession with always trying to get the last word in :p
Stop accusing me of what you’re doing here. You’re the one who went on a rant about carbon credits, and I simply corrected the misinformation in your statements. Kind of hilarious that you accuse me of having an obsession with getting in the last word in vapid comment free of any actual content. Maybe try looking in a mirror sometimes.
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The issue is the relative cost. Since energy costs in Europe are higher than in Asia or America that means overall input costs for manufacturing are also higher. Whatever energy issues may exist elsewhere, they’re not as severe as the ones in Europe. This makes it impossible for businesses doing manufacturing in Europe to compete with those doing it elsewhere.
Both China and the US are actively luring the industry out of Europe as we speak. Once the industry moves out of Europe, there is little incentive for it to move back since that’s a huge cost. This will absolutely affect long term competitiveness of Europe.
Legislation in Europe is conveniently introduced, claiming to preserve the environment, working conditions and so on. As a consequence, European entrepreneurs take production outside Europe, where European standards are far from being met, and then import those products, with hardly any restrictions. We externalize the damage to the environment, even increasing it, as well as the working conditions. We are being ripped off, badly.
This is what most Europeans I know don’t WANT to realize. It’s not their fault, it’s the fault of the country we’ve went to make our products. Somehow, this seems enough of a excuse for many. It’s really sad. People understand the issue, but somehow they ignore the factual reality. Maybe because it’s not a physical reality that can be seen or touched. We read about it, we see statistics, but we don’t really know the people we abuse for our products.
Maybe it is a bit like meat production. Everyone knows how it is done. Most think that these kinds of animal abuse are not okay and should be forbidden. But the next day, people go into their favorite shop and proceed to buy the cheapest meat they can find.
It’s China’s fault that you have corrupt politicians that allow for shady business practices to be taken in order to escape EU laws?
I just said that it’s wrong to see it like that, and most Europeans don’t want to realize this.
Hasn’t that been the case for decades?
Yes it has been. Why do you ask?
Just checking, no insidious implication meant
Ah, gotcha. The phrasing you used is typically used for a rhetorical question. That’s why I wondered if you meant it like that.
I have literally never in my life seen a product that says made in EU. There is a brand or rolling papers that is made in Spain but it doesn’t say “Made in EU”.
What about made in [EU member country]?
There is still quite some of it, although chinese manufacturing is outnumbering those like 10 to one, i usually read those labes and i’m surprised every time when it’s not China. IKEA notably have a lot of european products though it’s less and less in time. Also some particular things are still locally produced, mostly those with either quick expiration date or troublesome in transport (furniture comes to mind for example).
I also only seen “Made in EU” label few times, mostly because EU is not a country, so there would be rather country on those labels, the EU ones had it in addition to country.
I’ve only seen in software, but I don’t know if that counts. I mean, maybe I saw something some time but I forgot, that’s also a possibility.
