I hate Republicans for all they do and stand for, but nobody kills themselves just for fun. This guy was mentally ill (aside from being in the GOP) and got pushed over the brink by an asshole.
You don’t have to be sad about his death, but suicide is not normal and should never be encouraged like some here basically do.
While I agree that suicide should never ever ever be encouraged. I don’t think it’s necessarily a mental illness. This person was going to or already had lost everything they had ever known and worked for. They would have been a pariah in their town. They very likely would have been disowned by family and friends. It’s a little late in life to be starting all over somewhere new. I don’t think it’s crazy to contemplate unconventional exit strategies in that case.
Source: I am from small rural town Alabama.
I also think that we should remove the negative stigma behind suicide. After all, even bringing it up with a mental health professional can and will get you essentially arrested for 48 to 72 hours which discourages people from seeking help.
Also, can we just acknowledge how fucked up it is that this person felt they had no other way to deal with the situation, all because a group of people cared what clothes he wore in private.
I get that he decided to be part of this group, but even still… No one deserves that.
Where as I agree with you. It’s also funny that you say that. I have some friends that moved from Oregon to Alabama because it’s so cheap to live here.
Hey! One quick correction - I’m currently a therapy student. You are correct that if a therapist thinks you are in imminent danger of suicide, you can be detained for a period of time for your own safety. But we are taught only to do that if the danger is imminent. If you are just depressed and occasionally have suicidal ideation, but likely will not act on it immediately, a good therapist would not have you detained. That would be counterproductive.
Definitely just be super blunt and honest with your therapist. They are trained to handle things appropriately. You might hear about shitty therapists occasionally, but most of us are really well trained and really want the best for people.
I didn’t say suicide always happens, because you are mentally ill. You are twisting my words to suit your argument, maybe unintentionally. There is good reasons why people want to die, e.g. when they suffer from an illness that is only going to cause pain and suffering and want to go on their own terms.
I am not and was never in his head, but I am quite positive he didn’t suddenly develop, let’s say relatively severe Alzheimer’s disease and wanted to die why he still had controll over his life.
And yes, suicide should be allowed in my opinion as well. You should be the one who decides when and how you go. I agree with you insofar.
Though mental health professionals don’t admit you against your will, because it is a fun joke to them, but because the vast majority people are mentally ill when they are contemplating suicide. It is not a normal thing to want to die.
I don’t know how things are where you live, but in my tiny spot of the world people usually don’t get admitted against their will because of suicidal tendencies, but chose to after they talked to a mental health professional. You usually only get admitted against your will here, when e.g. police, firefighters and/or medical services had to talk you down or save you from an attempted suicide attempt.
If that is not the case in your small town in rural Alabama, then you should inform yourself as well as possible and try to teach others about a better alternative. Just my two cents on your comment.
I apologize if i misunderstood what your comment said it’s late and I’ve had , well, a day. I wasn’t trying to twist your words. So, I do apologize for that.
In my experience getting locked up for talking about suicide is subjective. What is serious to one mental health professional may not be serious to another. So, you never really know if you are crossing a line or not. I’ve always felt like it’s best to just avoid the subject all together. But in my experience it keeps me from building a relationship with the therapist. It says to me that there are things that are ok to talk about and things that are not.
No need to apologize. I assumed it was unintentionally. I sincerely hope things improve in general when it comes to mental health in society and in your life if things are not great.
Are you trying to make a case that suicide can be a well reasoned and appropriate solution?
Euthanasia might be appropriate in the context of some medical illnesses, but I think there’s very few people that would agree that suicide is a reasonable course of action when one encounters challenges like that described here.
I’ll just pull you up on some of the phrasing or terms you’ve used. I’m not trying to be an ass, I’m just concerned at the way you’re phrasing things and maybe you don’t realise?
He hasn’t “lost everything”. Sure I’m sure he’s lost his current position and standing with some political parties, but he still has whatever wealth he had, and given his experience can probably look forward to a lucrative career in some kind of political support role in another state.
A “pariah” is an outcast. He might have found it hard to make eye contact with some people at the shops but he wouldn’t have been banned from entering the city.
He may have been “disowned” but some of his friends, but not all of his friends and family.
It’s never too late to move and turn the page on a new chapter. He wouldn’t be “starting over” he would be making a change and continuing on.
Additionally, the term “crazy” doesn’t help anyone. People who are clinically depressed and suicidal are not “crazy”.
Words and phrasing is important and means things, whether you realise it or not your phrasing and framing is very catastrophic or black and white. Life happens in the grey.
Finally, you absolutely can talk to a mental health professional about thoughts of suicide, and they’re not going to lock you up. Usually the barrier beyond which someone needs to be detained is when they’re an “imminent risk to themselves or others”. There’s a whole spectrum from “wonders whether suicide is a solution” to “likely to harm themselves today” and in most of that spectrum locking someone up is not the right solution.
I’m going to have to respectfully disagree with you. I originally typed out a bunch of stuff, but I deleted it because I think it may break some TOS. But, suffice it to say that sometimes things go wrong and there is no coming back from it. I know because I’m there.
Also, did you go to 1819 news website? Because outing them for being trans isn’t the only thing they did. They also did an article about a fictional story they wrote where they killed a woman that exists in real life and took over her life.
Yeah, for example convicted pedos have a higher suicide rate than the average - I don’t think most people believe that is a statistic we should work on changing.
I think that is a statistic we should work on changing. There is still a lot research to be done, but it is possible that poedophilia is not so different fron being sexually attracted to people of your own gender. Your brain is just wired differently, in the case of pedophilia wrong. But you don’t exactly get to pick if and how you are born.
Societies outlaw living out these sexual desires for obvious reasons, which (in better parts of the world) obviously don’t apply if you on the other hand e.g. have consensual sexual experiences between two adults of the same sex.
Obviously sexual acts between adults and kids are not okay, no argument there. That is why we outlaw it, rightfully so. We can, (usually want) and definitely should protect all babies, childen and young adults in our societies.
Doesn’t mean you are a waste of oxygen if you have pedophilic urges, but don’t act upon them. There is also without a doubt a higher rate of suicides among those people. It is not a net positive.
The human sex drive is very strong, so despite having rules against non consensual or considered unacceptable sexual urges, people live those out. Sexual harassment is a better example for this.
My hope would be that someday we can somehow effectively help people who are sexually attracted to babies, kids and underage people without incarceration. There is already drugs that can supress any kind of sexual desire. We just don’t do enough research on this topic, because helping people struggling with pedophilic thoughts (especially those not having done anything wrong and never choosing that life) is a very unpopular topic. So we rather avoid it.
That goes for a lot of other mental illness like narcissistic or psychopathic disorders that tend to cause harm if lived out as well.
Not helping people afflicted by what we consider malfunctions of the human brain and letting them slide into more mental health problems, which might ultimately lead to their suicide is NOT a net positiv, is is a net negative. Always will be, unless you got your priorities wrong or can’t feel empathy.
My statement wasn’t about what’s “morally right”, it was an example of a suicide that the average person will consider a net gain for society.
A civilized society should obviously not have as its’ goal to make parts of its’ inhabitants kill themselves - the podcast that I got the statistic from was actually an interview with a police officer who worked on monitoring related internet activities, and proactively confronting said individuals to offer preventative chemical castration and therapy sessions. That still doesn’t change the fact that most would rather just see those kinds of people gone, at least after they’re convicted/proven to act upon their urges.
Okay, I see that as valuable context to what you wrote before and mostly agree. Thanks for adding that.
Though I also want to protect children from sexual abuse by adults, which is about the worst thing one can do, I do believe nevertheless it is still the right thing to try and help even the worst among us after they served their time, need rehabilitation more than ever and if they want and can be helped of course.
That’s a whole different topic to what happened to the man in thr article and I don’t want to go down this specific rabbithole any further. I hope that’s okay with you.
There is still a lot research to be done, but it is possible that poedophilia is not so different fron being sexually attracted to people of your own gender.
Societies outlaw living out these sexual desires for obvious reasons
Oh wonderful, the regressives are here with their whole “homosexuals are pedophiles” shtick.
It is not like I shed tears for bad people dying. You don’t have to either.
I just don’t want suicide to be celebrated. And I want suicide to be understood as (in the vast majority of cases) a very bad thing people commit, because their are mentally ill. Science is also backing up that celebrating or even covering suicide can bring other people to kill themselves too, who are good peoole, simply ill and shouldn’t.
Yeah WTF, cross dressing is objectively bad? People don’t even try to hide their bigotry anymore. If anyone should get back in the closet it is the bigots.
The objectively bad things he did was being a pastor of a religion that is against anything queer and a part of the GOP doing the same, NOT being a cross dresser. No one in the whole thread that I read said anything bad about him for cross dressing.
I hate Republicans for all they do and stand for, but nobody kills themselves just for fun. This guy was mentally ill (aside from being in the GOP) and got pushed over the brink by an asshole.
You don’t have to be sad about his death, but suicide is not normal and should never be encouraged like some here basically do.
While I agree that suicide should never ever ever be encouraged. I don’t think it’s necessarily a mental illness. This person was going to or already had lost everything they had ever known and worked for. They would have been a pariah in their town. They very likely would have been disowned by family and friends. It’s a little late in life to be starting all over somewhere new. I don’t think it’s crazy to contemplate unconventional exit strategies in that case.
Source: I am from small rural town Alabama.
I also think that we should remove the negative stigma behind suicide. After all, even bringing it up with a mental health professional can and will get you essentially arrested for 48 to 72 hours which discourages people from seeking help.
Also, can we just acknowledge how fucked up it is that this person felt they had no other way to deal with the situation, all because a group of people cared what clothes he wore in private.
I get that he decided to be part of this group, but even still… No one deserves that.
He could have moved to Oregon and a small town would have embraced him. sigh
Where as I agree with you. It’s also funny that you say that. I have some friends that moved from Oregon to Alabama because it’s so cheap to live here.
Ah, right. Oregon. Known for our high cost of living…
Also, I admit that I don’t know. That was just the reason they gave for moving here. For all I know they are hiding from a murder. Heh
Well, I think part of it was where they lived too. They were living in hood river.
I hope they had good flood insurance
Yeah I asked he said they lived right on the Columbia river.
Hey! One quick correction - I’m currently a therapy student. You are correct that if a therapist thinks you are in imminent danger of suicide, you can be detained for a period of time for your own safety. But we are taught only to do that if the danger is imminent. If you are just depressed and occasionally have suicidal ideation, but likely will not act on it immediately, a good therapist would not have you detained. That would be counterproductive.
Definitely just be super blunt and honest with your therapist. They are trained to handle things appropriately. You might hear about shitty therapists occasionally, but most of us are really well trained and really want the best for people.
I didn’t say suicide always happens, because you are mentally ill. You are twisting my words to suit your argument, maybe unintentionally. There is good reasons why people want to die, e.g. when they suffer from an illness that is only going to cause pain and suffering and want to go on their own terms.
I am not and was never in his head, but I am quite positive he didn’t suddenly develop, let’s say relatively severe Alzheimer’s disease and wanted to die why he still had controll over his life.
And yes, suicide should be allowed in my opinion as well. You should be the one who decides when and how you go. I agree with you insofar.
Though mental health professionals don’t admit you against your will, because it is a fun joke to them, but because the vast majority people are mentally ill when they are contemplating suicide. It is not a normal thing to want to die.
I don’t know how things are where you live, but in my tiny spot of the world people usually don’t get admitted against their will because of suicidal tendencies, but chose to after they talked to a mental health professional. You usually only get admitted against your will here, when e.g. police, firefighters and/or medical services had to talk you down or save you from an attempted suicide attempt. If that is not the case in your small town in rural Alabama, then you should inform yourself as well as possible and try to teach others about a better alternative. Just my two cents on your comment.
I apologize if i misunderstood what your comment said it’s late and I’ve had , well, a day. I wasn’t trying to twist your words. So, I do apologize for that.
In my experience getting locked up for talking about suicide is subjective. What is serious to one mental health professional may not be serious to another. So, you never really know if you are crossing a line or not. I’ve always felt like it’s best to just avoid the subject all together. But in my experience it keeps me from building a relationship with the therapist. It says to me that there are things that are ok to talk about and things that are not.
No need to apologize. I assumed it was unintentionally. I sincerely hope things improve in general when it comes to mental health in society and in your life if things are not great.
Thank you.
Are you trying to make a case that suicide can be a well reasoned and appropriate solution?
Euthanasia might be appropriate in the context of some medical illnesses, but I think there’s very few people that would agree that suicide is a reasonable course of action when one encounters challenges like that described here.
I’ll just pull you up on some of the phrasing or terms you’ve used. I’m not trying to be an ass, I’m just concerned at the way you’re phrasing things and maybe you don’t realise?
He hasn’t “lost everything”. Sure I’m sure he’s lost his current position and standing with some political parties, but he still has whatever wealth he had, and given his experience can probably look forward to a lucrative career in some kind of political support role in another state.
A “pariah” is an outcast. He might have found it hard to make eye contact with some people at the shops but he wouldn’t have been banned from entering the city.
He may have been “disowned” but some of his friends, but not all of his friends and family.
It’s never too late to move and turn the page on a new chapter. He wouldn’t be “starting over” he would be making a change and continuing on.
Additionally, the term “crazy” doesn’t help anyone. People who are clinically depressed and suicidal are not “crazy”.
Words and phrasing is important and means things, whether you realise it or not your phrasing and framing is very catastrophic or black and white. Life happens in the grey.
Finally, you absolutely can talk to a mental health professional about thoughts of suicide, and they’re not going to lock you up. Usually the barrier beyond which someone needs to be detained is when they’re an “imminent risk to themselves or others”. There’s a whole spectrum from “wonders whether suicide is a solution” to “likely to harm themselves today” and in most of that spectrum locking someone up is not the right solution.
I’m going to have to respectfully disagree with you. I originally typed out a bunch of stuff, but I deleted it because I think it may break some TOS. But, suffice it to say that sometimes things go wrong and there is no coming back from it. I know because I’m there.
Also, did you go to 1819 news website? Because outing them for being trans isn’t the only thing they did. They also did an article about a fictional story they wrote where they killed a woman that exists in real life and took over her life.
https://1819news.com/news/item/to-say-i-was-a-stalker-would-be-a-bit-of-an-understatement-curvy-transgender-smiths-station-mayor-copeland-wrote-fiction-about-murdering-real-life-local-businesswoman-assuming-her-identity
Yeah posting pics of minors to porn sites is fucking terrible wtf
Oh shit! I didn’t know they did that too. I admit I didn’t read the whole article because it was long and from a shitty right wing news source. Damn.
Ok, I read it and I thought you meant naked pics. What they did was still not ok, but it’s better than what I imagined.
I don’t know.
It seems to me that when objectively bad people take themselves out of the equation then it’s a net positive for everyone.
Yeah, for example convicted pedos have a higher suicide rate than the average - I don’t think most people believe that is a statistic we should work on changing.
I think that is a statistic we should work on changing. There is still a lot research to be done, but it is possible that poedophilia is not so different fron being sexually attracted to people of your own gender. Your brain is just wired differently, in the case of pedophilia wrong. But you don’t exactly get to pick if and how you are born.
Societies outlaw living out these sexual desires for obvious reasons, which (in better parts of the world) obviously don’t apply if you on the other hand e.g. have consensual sexual experiences between two adults of the same sex.
Obviously sexual acts between adults and kids are not okay, no argument there. That is why we outlaw it, rightfully so. We can, (usually want) and definitely should protect all babies, childen and young adults in our societies. Doesn’t mean you are a waste of oxygen if you have pedophilic urges, but don’t act upon them. There is also without a doubt a higher rate of suicides among those people. It is not a net positive.
The human sex drive is very strong, so despite having rules against non consensual or considered unacceptable sexual urges, people live those out. Sexual harassment is a better example for this.
My hope would be that someday we can somehow effectively help people who are sexually attracted to babies, kids and underage people without incarceration. There is already drugs that can supress any kind of sexual desire. We just don’t do enough research on this topic, because helping people struggling with pedophilic thoughts (especially those not having done anything wrong and never choosing that life) is a very unpopular topic. So we rather avoid it.
That goes for a lot of other mental illness like narcissistic or psychopathic disorders that tend to cause harm if lived out as well.
Not helping people afflicted by what we consider malfunctions of the human brain and letting them slide into more mental health problems, which might ultimately lead to their suicide is NOT a net positiv, is is a net negative. Always will be, unless you got your priorities wrong or can’t feel empathy.
My statement wasn’t about what’s “morally right”, it was an example of a suicide that the average person will consider a net gain for society.
A civilized society should obviously not have as its’ goal to make parts of its’ inhabitants kill themselves - the podcast that I got the statistic from was actually an interview with a police officer who worked on monitoring related internet activities, and proactively confronting said individuals to offer preventative chemical castration and therapy sessions. That still doesn’t change the fact that most would rather just see those kinds of people gone, at least after they’re convicted/proven to act upon their urges.
Okay, I see that as valuable context to what you wrote before and mostly agree. Thanks for adding that.
Though I also want to protect children from sexual abuse by adults, which is about the worst thing one can do, I do believe nevertheless it is still the right thing to try and help even the worst among us after they served their time, need rehabilitation more than ever and if they want and can be helped of course.
That’s a whole different topic to what happened to the man in thr article and I don’t want to go down this specific rabbithole any further. I hope that’s okay with you.
Oh wonderful, the regressives are here with their whole “homosexuals are pedophiles” shtick.
They obviously aren’t, don’t be a dimwit.
I do know.
It is not like I shed tears for bad people dying. You don’t have to either.
I just don’t want suicide to be celebrated. And I want suicide to be understood as (in the vast majority of cases) a very bad thing people commit, because their are mentally ill. Science is also backing up that celebrating or even covering suicide can bring other people to kill themselves too, who are good peoole, simply ill and shouldn’t.
Suicide is not normal.
Was he objectively bad though? You’re quick to judge him.
Yeah WTF, cross dressing is objectively bad? People don’t even try to hide their bigotry anymore. If anyone should get back in the closet it is the bigots.
The objectively bad things he did was being a pastor of a religion that is against anything queer and a part of the GOP doing the same, NOT being a cross dresser. No one in the whole thread that I read said anything bad about him for cross dressing.