Zero class analysis. Typically american. Those of us in more class conscious countries can see that this is different when one class does it vs the other.
When the bourgeoisie do it they do it to perform the maximum acts of violence and exploitation upon the workers.
When the proletariat does it they do it to perform the maximum acts of repression upon the bourgeoisie, with the intent on their complete abolition.
One is the abolition of exploitation and the other is the ramping up and climax of exploitation. Can you see the difference between these two things or do you just go through life pretending class isn’t actually a thing?
When slaves rose up an murdered their exploiters, preventing political opposition with the use of guns were they in the wrong for abolishing that form of exploitation? I am going to assume you don’t think so but I could be wrong. Why then do you think the working classes should not prevent political opposition from the people exploiting us?
Didn’t you say you were an anarchist before? Anarchist theory is 100% in favour of completely repressing the bourgeoisie through use of violent force and ruthlessly preventing the political opposition to anarchy as well. Are you just not an anarchist then? Because if you’re against that then you’re literally just a liberal, you do not believe in a fundamental principle of either anarchist or socialist theory. Anarchy is NOT “let anyone do what they want even the exploiters” lmao. I was an anarchist for 25 years before moving over to marxism-leninism.
I never said i was an anarchist or any ideology. why are you so obsessed with attacking teams/cults that aren’t your own. Can you believe in things without supporting other people blindly just because that wave your flag or wear your hat?
Putin isn’t bombing Ukraine because its oppressing his country lmao and its been doing all that fascist shit, assassinating people in other countries + in Russia and stopping all opposition for decades. Its a far right christian nationalist country not the USSR
I never said i was an anarchist or any ideology. why are you so obsessed with attacking teams/cults that aren’t your own. Can you believe in things without supporting other people blindly just because that wave your flag or wear your hat?
You’re fucking around a lot here. You’re clearly a liberal participating in bad faith. They are neither teams nor cults, they are political goals and understanding a person’s political goals is key in analysing their positions and intentions accurately. My attitude and the way I talk to an anarchist is completely different to how I talk to a communist or a liberal, for good reasons. I share much in common with anarchists, I do not share much in common with liberals, the liberal ideology is one of exploitation while the socialist and anarchist ideology is of abolishing exploitation.
Ukraine has fuck all to do with my comment lmao jog the fuck on. Stop changing the topic every other comment it makes it unbearably pointless to engage with you because you. I am not responding to an attempt to change topic unless you actually respond to me instead of avoiding questions and dodging around endlessly. Either talk to me respectfully and actually engage with the things I say or jog the fuck n and stop wasting my time.
Hey I do not care what your position is, but the sentence
Either talk to me respectfully and actually engage with the things I say or jog the fuck n and stop wasting my time.
Is this a joke ? You are being way more aggressive and engage way less than them in your whole post, but even in the very sentence where you are denouncing this very attitude. How could you expect anyone that does not already blindly agree with you to take you seriously ?
(TBH, this kind of behavior seems so absurd to me I almost feel like it has to be liberal strategy to make leftist look stupid, aggressive and impossible to reason with…)
No it’s not a joke. When I say “respectful” here I am referring to the respect afforded someone when you actually want them to engage with you. If you want someone to actually engage with the shit you say, then the bare minimum to receive that engagement is to reciprocate. That is good faith engagement between two people regardless of tone. If I’m going to talk to the other side, the baseline for that conversation to not become highly aggressive is to actually talk instead of fucking around dodging every single question and then going for the topic change and expecting me to continue engaging after they clearly did not engage with me.
“You’re being aggressive”. Of course my tone is grumpy after someone has intentionally dodging every single word I say who is now self-admittedly not part of any “leftist” ideology whatsoever that this instance is supposed to be about. Their pattern of behaviour is synonymous with wreckers, their intent here is solely to fuck with a leftist project and do harm or mischief in whatever ways they can come up with.
I’d rather talk to someone that insults me while actually genuinely responding to the things I say than talk to someone that engages in this kind of weasel behaviour, it is far far worse and far more damaging to any sense of community. It functions to generate enormous amounts of distrust between a community and a naive modteam that continually puts up with the more damaging behaviour by affording it far more leeway than it deserves.
OK sorry I was a bit aggresive myself. What I mean is I am someone who is here to listen to different perspectives than what western libertarian media explains me. I think I am open minded and ready to changee/adjust my view on different subject, including the war you are discussing here. I think Lemmy could be a place where I get anticapitalists and antiliberals view on these subject.
I just mean to inform you that your behavior discredit yourself so much to me that I am more skeptical about the position you defend after reading you than before.
To me there are several possible situation here :
you are not talking to people like me here on this public space, but to another specific group I don’t identify. Then ok, keep on, I am sorry I disturbed you.
your are getting angry and (maybe legitimatelyly) being an jerk to someone here. I think this is useless, and make you look more like an asshole than the person you where hating on.
you are talking to people you already agree with by just I showing belonging to this community by being toxic to outsiders. Than you don’t like like an asshole, you are an asshole. (I don’t think this is the case though.)
you are talking to indecisive person like me, hoping to bring your understanding to the public debate to help people like me understand. Then, I just think you should know that to me, you are doing it wrong. Wrong enough to be counterproductive.
Sorry for the long post, hope you understand what I mean !
Ok so let’s reset then. What are you indecisive about and what would you like to understand? While this person would not speak to me in good faith you appear very willing to.
Zero class analysis. Typically american. Those of us in more class conscious countries can see that this is different when one class does it vs the other.
When the bourgeoisie do it they do it to perform the maximum acts of violence and exploitation upon the workers.
When the proletariat does it they do it to perform the maximum acts of repression upon the bourgeoisie, with the intent on their complete abolition.
One is the abolition of exploitation and the other is the ramping up and climax of exploitation. Can you see the difference between these two things or do you just go through life pretending class isn’t actually a thing?
When slaves rose up an murdered their exploiters, preventing political opposition with the use of guns were they in the wrong for abolishing that form of exploitation? I am going to assume you don’t think so but I could be wrong. Why then do you think the working classes should not prevent political opposition from the people exploiting us?
Didn’t you say you were an anarchist before? Anarchist theory is 100% in favour of completely repressing the bourgeoisie through use of violent force and ruthlessly preventing the political opposition to anarchy as well. Are you just not an anarchist then? Because if you’re against that then you’re literally just a liberal, you do not believe in a fundamental principle of either anarchist or socialist theory. Anarchy is NOT “let anyone do what they want even the exploiters” lmao. I was an anarchist for 25 years before moving over to marxism-leninism.
You love writing paragraphs lol.
I never said i was an anarchist or any ideology. why are you so obsessed with attacking teams/cults that aren’t your own. Can you believe in things without supporting other people blindly just because that wave your flag or wear your hat?
Putin isn’t bombing Ukraine because its oppressing his country lmao and its been doing all that fascist shit, assassinating people in other countries + in Russia and stopping all opposition for decades. Its a far right christian nationalist country not the USSR
You’re fucking around a lot here. You’re clearly a liberal participating in bad faith. They are neither teams nor cults, they are political goals and understanding a person’s political goals is key in analysing their positions and intentions accurately. My attitude and the way I talk to an anarchist is completely different to how I talk to a communist or a liberal, for good reasons. I share much in common with anarchists, I do not share much in common with liberals, the liberal ideology is one of exploitation while the socialist and anarchist ideology is of abolishing exploitation.
Ukraine has fuck all to do with my comment lmao jog the fuck on. Stop changing the topic every other comment it makes it unbearably pointless to engage with you because you. I am not responding to an attempt to change topic unless you actually respond to me instead of avoiding questions and dodging around endlessly. Either talk to me respectfully and actually engage with the things I say or jog the fuck n and stop wasting my time.
Hey I do not care what your position is, but the sentence
Is this a joke ? You are being way more aggressive and engage way less than them in your whole post, but even in the very sentence where you are denouncing this very attitude. How could you expect anyone that does not already blindly agree with you to take you seriously ?
(TBH, this kind of behavior seems so absurd to me I almost feel like it has to be liberal strategy to make leftist look stupid, aggressive and impossible to reason with…)
No it’s not a joke. When I say “respectful” here I am referring to the respect afforded someone when you actually want them to engage with you. If you want someone to actually engage with the shit you say, then the bare minimum to receive that engagement is to reciprocate. That is good faith engagement between two people regardless of tone. If I’m going to talk to the other side, the baseline for that conversation to not become highly aggressive is to actually talk instead of fucking around dodging every single question and then going for the topic change and expecting me to continue engaging after they clearly did not engage with me.
“You’re being aggressive”. Of course my tone is grumpy after someone has intentionally dodging every single word I say who is now self-admittedly not part of any “leftist” ideology whatsoever that this instance is supposed to be about. Their pattern of behaviour is synonymous with wreckers, their intent here is solely to fuck with a leftist project and do harm or mischief in whatever ways they can come up with.
I’d rather talk to someone that insults me while actually genuinely responding to the things I say than talk to someone that engages in this kind of weasel behaviour, it is far far worse and far more damaging to any sense of community. It functions to generate enormous amounts of distrust between a community and a naive modteam that continually puts up with the more damaging behaviour by affording it far more leeway than it deserves.
OK sorry I was a bit aggresive myself. What I mean is I am someone who is here to listen to different perspectives than what western libertarian media explains me. I think I am open minded and ready to changee/adjust my view on different subject, including the war you are discussing here. I think Lemmy could be a place where I get anticapitalists and antiliberals view on these subject.
I just mean to inform you that your behavior discredit yourself so much to me that I am more skeptical about the position you defend after reading you than before.
To me there are several possible situation here :
Sorry for the long post, hope you understand what I mean !
Ok so let’s reset then. What are you indecisive about and what would you like to understand? While this person would not speak to me in good faith you appear very willing to.