So I am a part of the LGBTQ community and work in a big city in middle europe. A lot of my coworkers are religios and have a foreign background. They are mostly very nationalist and homo-/transphobic. I hate them for their blind hate and bigotry, which wont change. I have realised, that I have become a bit bigotred towards people like them in the last few months, which is, even tho my biases often revealed to be true, just unfair to them. How could I stop that?
It sounds like you’re describing the Paradox of Tolerance.
The paradox of tolerance states that if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually ceased or destroyed by the intolerant. Karl Popper described it as the seemingly self-contradictory idea that in order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must retain the right to be intolerant of intolerance.
I don’t really have a good answer other than follow your heart, I guess.
It’s not a paradox, it’s a social contract. Tolerance is only deserved by those who are tolerant themselves.
In philosophy, “paradox” often doesn’t mean that something really is self-contradictory, but rather that it seems self-contradictory. There are what Quine called “veridical paradoxes” which seem at first to be contradictions but actually turn out to be true but non-obvious. That’s the case for a lot of “paradoxes” arising from math, for example the birthday paradox.
(In any event, “deserve” is much more complicated than “paradox”!)
It is a paradox because there’s no objective, universal definition of tolerance. It’s literally impossible to be tolerant of everything. So you’re left with different forms of what intolerance people deem acceptable.
People make the same mistake about bigotry. It’s impossible not to be a bigot. You just don’t want to be the wrong kind of bigot. Now if only we could all agree on exactly what that was.
The “paradox” here is that by being tolerant of intolerance, we are actually decreasing the overall level of tolerance when normally we’d expect tolerant behaviors to increase tolerance.
Compare it to the “death wave.” When someone stops in a multi lane intersection to allow someone to cross in debt of them, the pedestrian/vehicle can’t see around the stopped vehicle and this can result in them being hit by a motorist in the adjacent lane. It feels like you’re being safe and considerate, but you’re actually putting the other person in more danger than if you had simply followed the right of way. It happens often enough that a name has been coined for the phenomenon.
Tolerating hate increases hate, not tolerance. Tolerating hate in the extreme decreases tolerance not only relative to the hate, but because once hate takes over they eliminate tolerance (see Florida).
The word paradox has too many meanings, alas. I like jan Misali’s explanation of the word: there are five definitions of paradox. https://youtu.be/ppX7Qjbe6BM?si=Lnkao0t0qFLi9tjj
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/ppX7Qjbe6BM?si=Lnkao0t0qFLi9tjj
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OP is describing their own growing bias towards an ethnic group based on opinions they have encountered in a few of them. They want help with their own biases. This isn’t really the kind of answer this post needs. It’s becoming cliche.
Being religious or homophobic isn’t a ethnic group. OP is basically growing a hatred for bigoted/sexist/xenophobic people because they’re forced to interact with them on a regular basis, which sucks for sure :-(
You have no reason to believe that. That’s a nice interpretation but all you heard is “People like them”. It’s uncomfortable to say they are stereotyping based on race. But that’s probably what’s going on.
Why else would you look for advice? “I don’t like bigots, what do I do?” I guess if that’s the only problem you are equipped to talk about then better to stick to it. I’m trying to help someone navigate out of bigotry because that’s the more important interpretation.
I may have read it incorrectly but I didn’t see anything about an ethnic group in OPs post. The only distinguishing factor they provided was “blind hate and bigotry”. Which is not an ethnic group.
a lot of my coworkers are religious and have a foreign background
I think this where the bias settles in that he wants to remove.
Ok, yeah I can see that reading it again. Probably my own biases causes me to ignore that part initially. Thanks for pointing it out.
I don’t think so, as I stated earlier I hate my nationalist coworkers, but my problem is, that I have the same feelings for people like them that I don’t know.
When you say “like them,” do you mean racist nationalists? You know the answer, a bully is a bully whether you know them or not.
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I spent 20 years traveling the world with the US Air Force, and I met many different people from many different cultures. And I would be lying if I said that I didn’t have conflicting world views with some of the folks I’ve met over the years.
There were times, early in my career, when I felt other cultures were just wrong and needed to change everything about themselves and the way they operate in order to get themselves out of the poverty and violence and hatred that they lived in. It turns out, my way of thinking was wrong.
The thing that helped me the most was actually taking an “Introduction to Culture” course through the Community College of the Air Force. It introduced me to the mindset behind other cultures and why some people I ran into just seemed to be unapologetically biased and/or racist/bigoted toward “outsiders.”
Learning how other cultures think and associate with others of their own culture helped me to get a mental foothold on differing opinions. I was able to discuss logic and reason from a common ground, not just a Western mentality viewpoint. I learned how to “speak their language,” so to speak. And even though I couldn’t change everyone’s world views, I was at least able to relate and discuss topics on equal footing.
And at the end of the day, you have to realize that everyone is their own unique individual. Sure, a particular culture and/or religion may go against everything you hold dear in your life, but individuals’ opinions may not be as resolute as the overarching culture may appear. Some people are open to new ideas and creative ways of thinking. You need to be aware of your personal biases (we ALL have them) and work to help others overcome their own biases at the same time, while not being accusatory or judgemental.
You can’t just tell people to educate themselves, but you can educate yourself, then share your knowledge and experience with others and try to come to an understanding. There are entire cultures out there who can’t see themselves as individuals with unique hopes and dreams. They only function as individual “worker ants,” supporting the ideals of their overarching culture and families. And that’s not necessarily a bad thing. But it makes it hard to convince them of the importance of individual people, especially members of a group that’s contradictory to the teachings of their own culture. They have an especially hard time separating individuals from the group’s belief structure.
Teaching tolerance to groups who thrive on intolerance is very difficult, but it starts by relating to and positively influencing individuals. It won’t happen overnight, but good impressions can leave a lasting effect. And you need to be able to swallow your pride and don’t let your biases get the better of you. Be caring and respectful and let their own biases crumble under their own scrutiny. There’s no simple or direct way to do this, but if you spend enough time around others, you might find small ways to relate to them, then work on expanding your common ground.
Humans compartmentalize because we don’t have the cognitive ability to understand everything in the universe. It simplifies our world so we can better understand it. But racism and bigotry is a nasty side effect; we assign biased opinions on entire cultures so we don’t have to re-learn about every single member of a culture. But it’s important to fight against that urge to stereotype and teach others how to avoid it too. People deserve a chance to prove themselves, and you need to be able to give them that chance, even if it takes them a few tries. Some people just need a guiding hand and some extra opportunities to figure out how to be better. Most people need it, to some degree. All you can do is try not to give in to your own biases and help gently lead others to identifying their own biases.
Beautifully said.
I found similar value in taking various anthropology courses in college. Learning about other cultures provides a perspective for thinking about your own. There is some good and some bad in all of them, but mostly there’s just “different”. You can have a meaningful dialog with a person you disagree with, but you can’t with someone you just don’t understand.
Look, one thing you need to take away is there’s a good chance not all of them actually feel that religion in their bones.
A lot of them are still “religious” because they’re afraid of being judged by their peers, which in some of those cultures can go way beyond just shaming.
I had a friend who was an exchange student when I was in college. He was originally from Jordan and had struggled with his religion for a long time, and in his time in the US, felt like he was becoming atheist. He went home to Jordan to basically hide that fact from everyone he knows for the rest of his life because apostasy is illegal in Jordan. He could be stripped of his civil rights, his ability to get a job and lose all legal relationships with his family.
The issue of course is an authoritarian religious environment which punishes deviation from strict belief.
In my opinion, you do not have to like people who are using their belief to shun others. Their blind hatred and bigotry make them unworkable people to have relationships with. Does this mean every person from their country is like this? No. Does this mean every person even in that group you’re talking about is like this, deep down? No, some of them may be way more open but are worried about attacks from within their own community.
My suggestion would be to do your best to be considerate and polite in a work context, but not have any relationship with them outside of work, and focus on the idea that not everyone from such a culture ends up so hateful and practicing jingoistic nationalism. My friend from Jordan is a bright, shining example of a kind, loving human who grew up in a culture that taught him to not be.
Blame the nationalism, blame the religion, blame the strict governance that forces these beliefs on people. The individuals are being taken advantage of by their religion and nation, even if they’re not aware of it. It is their fault for not becoming better people, and you don’t have to be friends with them or polite to them outside of work.
Anyway, personal opinion, forced beliefs aren’t 100% on them, and we should be considering that some people have learned to be very, very good at hiding their real selves in this kind of environment.
You might someday find out that one person in that group really wants to escape it and become more open and less discriminatory and bigoted.
As for yourself, I don’t think it’s bigotry to recognize hate and bigotry for what they are. I do think you need to be able to stop and consider that not everyone from such a community is like the people you have experienced, although a vast majority of them may be like that.
Anyway, put the blame where it lies, on a religion and government that twists people in knots by leveling severe punishments for not being the “right” religion.
Is your concern how you treat those specific individuals who have demonstrated their beliefs? Or is it about pre judging future people who you will meet? The answer will look different.
If it’s about those particular dudes… consider learning more about them and showing them more about you. It may be powerful. If that puts you at risk then don’t do it. You are under no obligation. They already showed you who they are.
If it’s about others… have you already find yourself demonstrating prejudice? Had it happened yet, or is it just a fear? Biases are natural. Everyone has them. Recognizing them is the greatest defense. Huge. Stereotyping is a protective mechanism to help us figure out what is safe or important. It is a shortcut. It cuts down mental processing time by seeing not just a new individual sensation but also a thing that is part of a group that already is in a mental network with a web of associations. You learn more on an instant than you would by investigating every new thing. Even if it’s not perfectly accurate, it’s good enough for spotting tigers and strawberries.
Biases are shortcuts. But not everything deserves a shortcut. Getting to know another person sometimes means taking the long road.
Don’t feel ashamed that your mind wants to take shortcuts. It might help you feel safe. In a fraction of a second your brain might think, “He looks a lot like that guy that said he would hurt people like me.” But part of being human is being able to rise above that. Stop and think: is that the same guy? No. Let’s give him a chance and see what he’s about.
Or don’t. Stay safe. The risks of human relationships can be rewarding, but they are still risks.
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Attribution biases, confirmation biases, and xenophobia are human conditions. Some are greater affected by personality than others (which you can’t change as an adult). All you can do is acknowledge that you do it and work to reduce it. Anyone who says they’re immune is delusional.
In my opinion it’s fine to hate them for their beliefs. But you need to remember that everyone that looks like them isn’t them. Each human is a complex person and it’s unfair to hate a person without knowing them.
What might help is trying to find someone of that race who is lgbt and speaking to them. That might help stop your brain from jumping to the conclusion of their all bigots.
IMHO the most important thing is to have a moral foundation so you understand yourself why you believe racism/bigotry to be a bad thing.
It’s hard to say one is being good when intentionally and needlessly harming another right? And racism and bigotry intentionally and needlessly harms those being discriminated against.
So you get to decide if you want to be a decent person or one of the ugly hateful people. And of course whichever one decides, they will reap the consequences, whether that’s a bunch of cool friends or something else.
My recommendation to you, start viewing your coworkers as the ugly people they are and make it clear you don’t hang around low-lifes without directly stating anything in reference to them.
Bravo to you for seeing people as people. Obviously none of your coworkers made a conscious choice to be intolerant, it’s just an emergent phenomenon given their experience with the people around them, an effect you’re noticing happen in yourself.
I don’t know how to achieve it, but I think there is only one way to combat intolerance, and that is to move people from an outgroup to an ingroup. People tend to not care about people in their outgroup, but tend to be intolerant of people they fear in their outgroup. People who have their family, their church, and their compatriots in their ingroups are referred to as nationalists, and when nationalists are convinced to fear their outgroup, you get fascism.
They are intolerant of the LGBTQ community because they have (unfounded) fears that there is an “agenda” to erode their religions and force people to be like them. You are intolerant of them because you have (often well founded) fears that their actions fuel systemic intolerance that has a very real impact on your livelihood.
I think the only way to flip this on its head is to break this pattern, for each of you to view each other as part of your ingroups. Now, it would be fair to say that’s too hard, that would be unreasonably difficult to become that close to them, and you’d probably be right. I think that’s why many in this thread have instead settled for seeing them as less than human, not worth “saving”. But that’s what I think would need to happen.
it’s just an emergent phenomenon given their experience with the people around them
It’s usually caused by lack of experience with such people and a heap of prejudice and religion.
By claiming it’s not their choice sounds like you’re claiming they are not responsible for their behavior which is IMHO pretty dangerous.
Do you believe you would behave any differently if you were working from the same information they are? If no, then we agree. If yes, then you believe you are somehow inherently superior to them. I think that is pretty dangerous.
Do you believe you would behave any differently if you were working from the same information they are?
Yes. I was raised as a Christian and was fed not that dissimilar bullsh*t from an early age. At that point access to information was way, way worse (no internet, small village…) than now, yet it wasn’t that crazy difficult to realize what crap it was. IMNSHO there’s no excuse today.
Obviously none of your coworkers made a conscious choice to be intolerant
That’s a huge, and demonstrably incorrect, assumption. I have a friend that treats everyone like that, they’re super outgoing, throw huge parties, and invite every type of person you can imagine, and they all show up because they’re excellent parties. The bigoted racists gather in their own group (they easily find each other by their stupid shirts) make off color jokes, loudly, except the really bad ones, which they quietly say to each other and snicker like teenagers. I tend to blend in to the background and overhear a lot of what they say to each other. They chose to hate, they view certain humans as lesser beings, and repeatedly act in ways to explicitly prove they’re not part of any group outside their own, on purpose. They want, and deserve to be excluded until they’re willing to change.
Spoiler
They won’t, even if they say they will. Believing them will make your life miserable, and then they’ll beg you to let them do it again.
Excellent comment. I think it’s fair to say that a lot of friendships start with realising you have something in common with someone else. When you focus too much on what’s different between you and someone else, like only thinking of someone as being part of the lgbtqi+ community, or being a religious nut, you don’t give yourself head space to see the other things that could potentially unite you.
It’s also tempting to think that certain politically motivated groups have exploiting nationalism down to a science at this point. It sure seems that way if you look at the media. So it could be that OP has more work cut out for them than is tenable.
Still, if my options are: go to war, or treat people like humans and then go to war, I’ll choose the latter. Personally, I’d rather die at the hands of a bigot than live treating anyone as irredeemable subhuman garbage. But I understand why living is the more important priority for most people. So it goes…
This kind of hate is always the product of fear and sometimes that fear is so deep that’s impossible to eradicate all by yourself.
The most significant thing that you can try is to let them know that there is nothing to be afraid about, but it is only going to work with people who are open to receive that information, which aren’t many. My suggestion is start to focus on these people.
It will take time, but if you manage to get a “critical mass” of individuals to listen to you, then real change can and will happen on a larger scale.As someone of color (Indian) who is often mistaken as being foreign/religious until they hear my accent…
I feel the other commenters here are missing the mark. This isn’t about fixing them, or learning to “accept them as they are”: bigots should never be tolerated.
Which is to say, your reasons for being “bigoted” towards the bigots isn’t a matter of prejudice: you’ve extrapolated a pattern.
But you don’t want to apply this pattern unfairly to people you haven’t met, because that’d make you bigoted as well.
Well, I have good news for you: you aren’t at any risk for that. Real bigots don’t think they’re bigots. People with prejudices don’t consider their judgement unsound. They think they’re the most unbiased, reasonable people in the world, and often try to push their opinions on others with violence, whether it’s verbal, social, or physical.
By simply acknowledging internally that you have thoughts that you consider unideal, and unfair, you’ve done a thousand times more self-reflecting, and have more capacity for self-correcting, than someone like my parents would.
Don’t try to beat the bad thoughts out of yourself. Acknowledge them, and pledge to act better than they’d have you.
I know this is a complex topic and you have a lot of solid replies already. All I can add is, mushrooms may help you shift and broaden your perspective if you haven’t tried them already.
It’s not unfair if they are bigoted.
Try to ignore everyone’s background before judging them. Wait until they reveal their true opinions then feel free to judge.
I know it seems like all the people from certain cultures have similar opinions, and it’s true on average. But don’t miss good people in there. Let it that be your motivation - finding good people in a sea of assholes.
What do you mean by ignoring background? At first that sounds like “I don’t see color” but surely you dont mean it like that. What did you have in mind?
I absolutely mean it like that.
It doesn’t preclude acknowledging that other people do see color.Compare statements:
- Person is seen as (color) by racists
- Person is (color)
Ignoring or dismissing someone’s background, culture, identity, and experiences is a terrible way to get to know them. That’s like trying to understand the Odyssey without knowing about the Iliad
Ignoring or dismissingAssuming based on stereotypes someone’s background, culture, identity, and experiences is a terrible way to get to know them.I’m not saying to assume. But that doesn’t mean ignore. You acknowledge, listen, and learn. It’s part of the whole story.
I would worry about that after I no longer had to worry about people who were bigoted towards me. And then all it would take is to remember no race, religion, party, medical condition, or sexual orientation is absolute in its attitude (as in there are good and bad in every group). I hope there are some people of ethnic background in your situation who denounce their more supremacist peers.
You can’t fix stupid or hate
