In many parts of Europe, it’s common for workers to take off weeks at a time, especially during the summer. Envious Americans say it’s time for the U.S. to follow suit.
Some 66% of U.S. workers say companies should adopt extended vacation policies, like a month off in August, in their workplaces, according to a Morning Consult survey of 1,047 U.S. adults.
Approximately 50% of voters will vote for a political party that views any such reform as communism.
51% support slower employee response time outside of work hours
Uh, what? That does not compute. Either it’s work, or it is not work (and I don’t respond to anything, and don’t get contacted in the first place)
If you’re a skilled salaried worker the law doesn’t really consider you to have work hours. Furthermore, you aren’t required to be compensated for time you are on-call unless you are required to physically be present.
US labor laws are truly horrifying if you start asking yourself a few “what-ifs.” The entire system is built on good faith.
“Salaried worker” over here means just that you’re being paid for fixed, regular working hours - typically something like 37.5 or 40 hours per week. Anything on top of that is overtime, which needs to be compensated either in time off, or paid out.
On call rules also vary a lot by country, but typical it’s something like being paid 20-25% of your regular hourly wage while on call, with overtime pay when you’re taking a call.
We have salary exempt and salary non-exempt in the US. The exempt part being overtime pay.
Salary exempt would be jobs like managers who may have to work outside of normal hours to ensure continuity of the business. Such as making arrangements for sick workers.calling out.
Salary non-exempt are for positions in which they are paid a set work week but their function does not have unplanned work outside of their normal hours. So things like HR or accounting may be paid salary, but there really is no reason for something to come up outside of their work day. These people should be clocking in and out or at least capturing their time in some manner, because if they do end up working greater than 40 hours a week they are entitled to overtime pay.
I work in engineering. Every job I’ve ever had has been overtime exempt. Shit sucks.
Then I guess a few companies I’ve worked for are breaking the law… Go figure. Our non exempt employees wouldn’t get overtime, they just worked for free if the were needed to work longer hours… Yay murica…
Oh yeah. Wage theft accounts for more stolen dollars than any other form of theft.
Where is “over here”?
Pretty much all of the EU, at least - country specific regulations vary, but the basic framework is based on EU regulations.
Yep can confirm everything you stated.
Source: am from Europe
I’ll never forget at my first job once I moved to Europe, boss reminded me to take my vacation days. “Yeah, I’m hourly, not salary, what vacation days?”
Yes, holiday pay/leave is accrued for casual hourly workers too, by law.
That said, when I switched to salary, off in lieu is a sticky loophole, not sure if it was legal but one place would wipe any leftover OIL on 31 Dec with no payout, so it was on you to take it, which wasn’t always possible (pay and time off is better, but work/life balance can be just as F-ed in Europe).
Yes, holidays can, by law, be reset on Jan 1st.
However, the company needs to have reminded you that it will, and also allow you to actually take the time off.
If you have 30 days on December 1st, then they need to allow you to either take the days forward into the year or take it in December.
Then don’t vote for Republicans.
30ish percent of Americans identify as Republican (depending on the poll), so these types of questions are always ~66% of Americans in support
But many independent voters who want these policies vote for Republicans. If they want these policies, voting for Republicans will not get them there.
I’ve worked in companies with a presence in various European countries over my career. Whether or not everyone takes Summer leave at the same time very much depends on the company, and the country. I specifically remember working with a Finnish contractor firm who planned to have no billable time available at all in August, from anyone. But our offices in France and elsewhere never fully shut down in August, they were just very lightly staffed. Everyone took some multi-week summer holiday, just not the whole place at once.
It’s not just summer leave, either. There are people all over the world having kids and going out on maternity (or even paternity!) leave for months at a time. When my wife and I had our kids in the US, I didn’t get any extra paternity leave, and just used saved-up PTO. I particularly remember that my wife had to stay in the hospital for a bit after my first kid was born, so the two weeks I had saved up flew by in a flash. I recall my boss strongly encouraging me to dial in to a conference call on that last PTO day, and when I did his boss lashed into me for taking so much time off. I started sending out resumes shortly after.
On the other hand, when the Europeans I worked with later got their summer or parental leave, their Project Managers just dealt with it, and if it meant their schedules had to slip, they slipped, no temper tantrums required. And I think that is the key difference. American bosses and PMs are much more likely to get away with assigning blame for schedule slips downward, perhaps because not as many people are unionized.
Many types of workers in scandinavia is not as heavily unionized either. Perhaps the ones that are not, enjoy a form of herd immunity from worker abuse from the ones that are.
This is exactly why every worker should be supporting unions even if their industry doesn’t have one. Rising tides and all that.
I’m on the UK and taking paternity leave in December. By using some of my holiday allowance plus a Christmas shutdown I’m turning my 4 week paternity leave into 8 weeks off in total. It’s hardly a holiday (seeing as we’ll be lookin after a newborn and my other half will be recovering from a c-section/childbirth) but god-damn I am looking forward to two months of just focusing on mu family.
Depending on the country, there aren’t that many people in unions. Most countries in the EU (not Europe in general) have laws that protect the workers better than workers in the USA. The result is a different work culture.
Just an anecdote related to the first part of what you said: I’m in the US, PTO season seems to be December at my company. Both because some portion of people’s PTO hours will expire at the end of the year, and obviously because of being adjacent to Christmas and new year.
34% of Americans responded “grind my body into the ground, capitalism daddy”
I don’t think they even responded, their mouth were probably full.
Why do 34% of Americans not want paid time off work?
Because they will think of someone else who “doesn’t deserve it” getting it and mald.
Mald?
portmanteau of mad and go bald
be so mad they go bald
That sounds pretty mad!
Realistically, they are probably the small (and large) business owners that will have to pay for a month off work for their employees.
“In 2020, there were a total 5,775,258 U.S. firms in all sectors. They employed about 129,363,644 workers and had total annual payroll of $7.3 trillion.”
https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2023/01/who-owns-americas-businesses.html
US population per that census: 331,449,281.
For simplification, let’s assume one business owner per business. Then it’s only 1.74243% of Americans that own a business. Even with inclusion of additional owners for businesses, you aren’t going to get anywhere near that 34%, as that would be 112,692,756 people.
In short, realistically the 34% are not business owners, and instead are the propagandized proletariat who fight against their own best interest in favor of capital (conservatives and fascists).
This is what you are looking for:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/254085/business-establishments-in-the-us-by-employment-size/
Breakdown of the size/ # employees per business.
There are 4.6 million businesses with 1-4 employees. 8,600 businesses with 1,000+ employees.
It’s likely that the average business has a lot more than one owner per business. Most would have multiple shareholders, whether that’s husband and wife businesses, or a small firm of several partners. Plus you also need to add in shareholders, etc. Though it’s also true that one person can own multiple, and presumably the survey didn’t let the same person answer twice, so maybe the 1:1 assumption is ok.
But even so, isn’t that figure super low? Here in New Zealand, we have about 550,000 small businesses (less than 20 employees, including self-employed), which if there were one owner per business would make this 10% of businesses.
I’d also add that people who work in small businesses are also more likely to understand what a fine line there is between them having a job and the business going bust. This is especially true for places like hospitality, where margins are thin and businesses go bankrupt at a high rate. These employees may also think it’s a bad idea, because they know their business can’t afford it even if they are not the owners.
instead are the propagandized proletariat who fight against their own best interest
If you went out on the street and started talking to the average person, I think you’d find that it was difficult to find a person who wasn’t voting against their own interests (other than those that do not vote at all).
Something, something socialism is bad.
some people are that bad of workalohics. never take time off and think others who do are weak
the myth of a meritocracy strikes again
I’m the kind of person that brings my work laptop on vacation and it’s because I love what I do, not because I think people who don’t do that are weak.
It’s not too surprising that a country that had a civil war over ‘employment laws’ is a bad place to work.
I know lots of us people with “unlimited time off” type contracts. No one ever takes more than a week because they are afraid that their bosses wouldnt like it.
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I…do not know what’s being said here.
In Germany, you get at least 28 days of holidays per year. Company even has to budget for them, so if you don’t take them, it creates a huge headache for them in regards to finalizing their yearly results because they might have to keep money back. Sorry, I don’t have the correct economical term, in German it is a Rückstellung. So there is a very high insentive to get all of your people to take their holidays, because otherwise it’s a pain in the ass and will delay everything.
My company has this and just about everyone I work with utilizes the unlimited time off. Most people land in the 5-6 weeks of vacation a year + sick + personal business + holidays.
There are the few who make work their hobby too, but you can’t do anything for those people IMO
What is the difference to vacation and personal days?
Attending funerals, births etc aren’t really holidays
Exactly, we get days off for this on top
Oh, we have bereavement and paternity/maternity leave.
Personal business is for things that need to be done touring business hours but aren’t vacation. Things like doctors appointments, meeting a service person to fix something at your home, or some delivery that requires you be home. Those kind of things
I’ve been told that generally, this is so the company doesn’t have to pay you back for unused PTO if you leave the company.
I can’t vouch for this as true, but it makes sense.
That is why time off is supposed to be mandatory
If I’m stuck in the USA, I’m gonna find an unlimited time of job and actually use that benefit like Europeans. Fuck American work culture.
I have unlimited PTO, and it’s a total scam. I’m a contractor, and contracts have required hours within required time-frames. These time-frames don’t have margin for taking off a couple weeks at a time. Any time you take off, has to be made up, so it’s not really time off
If you get such a contract, make sure to read it closely. I had it once, phrased more like “there is no policy restricting time off”. It’s really up to your manager and it means there is an invisible limit that may be different for everyone, you won’t know about until you hit it.
In my case, I had a good manager, but sure enough, got dinged after taking off two weeks in the year (the worst part was no actual vacation but individual days off for kid’s appointments). I much prefer an actual limit, because then you can take it
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For some that’s true.
But we undergo a great deal of brainwashing. Unions are demonized, billionaires lionized, puritanical (insane) work ethic lauded, anything less than that vilified, etc.
Attempts at unionization are aggressively subverted and crushed by large corpos.
And most people are given just enough to not want to risk it all to get a bit more.
It will be a while, yet, before US culture shifts enough that more people side with unions, join unions, and build critical mass. Although, younger generations seem to be more aware of the anti-labor BS more than my gen (x) was at a similar age.
Yeah, they’re so afraid to unionize that…they unionized in Starbucks, UPS, railroads, hospitals, maintenance management…
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If you think voting will get you out of this, my american friend, you are wrong. You need a revolution.
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Who are the other 34%?? Who is like “yeah idk a consecutive 30 days off every summer actually, legitimately sounds BAD to me”?
European here. Like me, many people from the poorer european countries don’t have any place to go on vacations in august. Everything is expensive and there’s always a rush to booking. For someone who doesn’t have a “family summer house” and can’t afford to rent a place in august, mandatory august vacations (like it’s usual here) is just a waste of vacations. Too hot and no place cool to go. Also, august is typically the month where everything is flooded with small children. If you’re not too fond of that either, then august is really the worst month to be on vacations. ALSO, it’s lovely to work in august, because usually your workplace has AC and most of your colleagues are hundreds of kms away, trying to buy a melted ice-cream for 40min in a crowded beach.
Couldn’t you just stay home and fuck around and just not work?
You missed the part about having AC at work.
Uh, lots actually. People who self identify with work, and the shitty management class who are workaholics.
Also, the self employed and small business owner who never gets vacation time.
As a self employed small business owner, “What are weekends and work hours?”
As an employee, “Couple weeks off sounds great!”
Three possibilities. a) people who bought into the propaganda that being exploited by your employer means you’re more dedicated. b) the temporarily embarrassed millionaire effect. They’re willing to take the exploitation on the off chance they might be the one exploiting people in the future. c) they already are the ones exploiting people.
There’s also people that recognize that a “summers off” program like this wouldn’t affect significant portions of the workforce. Retail and dining workers wouldn’t get this time off. Medical workers wouldn’t get this time off. Package handlers wouldn’t get this time off.
The divide between “work-from-home” and “essential” and those who got laid off completely during the pandemic opened a lot of eyes to how unfair different types of employment are. I can see plenty of workers saying they don’t want white collar office jockeys taking yet another advantage that service workers will never have access to.
“sounds like COMMUNISM to me for sure buddy !”
They have dropped that “take a month off” thing like it’s some crazy regular thing that happens.
I don’t know about the rest of Europe, but in the UK you normally get 25 to 30 days of Annual Leave, companies often give extra days for long term or exceptional service, some have salary sacrifice options to buy more. Where I work you can even win some in charity raffles. The expectation is that you book them in advance with your boss when you want to use them.
If you want to save it all and take a month off then so long as the boss is okay with it, then off you go. But you won’t have any leave days for the rest of the year.
That’s double the amount of time off I have here in the U.S.
And I only get a week of paid sick days, which I’ve already used up due to an illness which hasn’t even been properly diagnosed yet.
I even have to make up time if I go to the doctor.
In the UK the government mandates that your employer pay you whats called statutory sick pay for up to 28 week should the illness require it, which is a minimum of £109 a week.
In addition, your continued employment by the company is protected and they cannot fire you for being sick.
In reality the company will often support staff members for much longer if needed. That’s just how things are expected to be. I’ve had a member of my team go on very long term sick with leukemia and he was supported by the company for over 4 years while he was in and out of hospital, letting him work part time and from home when he needed to, at his discretion.
Expectations on companies here and the protections offered to worked in regards to thier employment and unfair dismissal situations puts the “land off the free” to shame
Not surprised. I would honestly move there tomorrow (my father was English and I was born before the 1980s cutoff, so I could get citizenship), but I don’t want to abandon my dogs.
Why not take the dogs with you, if that is „all“?
Yep - it’s a tired misconception I first encountered working for an American 20 odd years ago.
While it’s true that it’s difficult to get much out of France Spain and especially Italy in august - it’s because it’s holiday season - not because everyone is gone for a whole month
Do you get paid during your month off?
Of course.
In Finland you get paid 1.5x your normal monthly salary in the month you are in vacation. History of it is that to ensure you continue working after the vacation.
Edit: it is not in the law, it is just something that unions have negotiated
Cool, I get zero sick days and get paid a lump sum “vacation” every year equivalent to one week’s salary.
I get no real paid time off otherwise
Yeah, I’m also from the UK and not sure where tf this “August off” thing is from, whether it’s something other European countries do.
People usually take 1-2 weeks off at a time for a holiday then the odd day here and there, a month is ridiculous.
I was gonna say that you’d burn out if you used up an entire month at once, but I guess Americans would be used to that kind of shit anyway.
Here in Germany taking 3 consecutive weeks off is pretty normal, for me that’s also the maximum that I can take off in a row without jumping through additional administrative hoops. A whole month isn’t normal, but it could certainly be arranged
Same, we have to cover about 4 weeks of closed child care and 6 weeks of closed schools. So we take a bunch of our 30 days and turn them into a 3 week stay somewhere.
Like so many things in the minds of Americans, when they think of social benefits in Europe, they think of Sweden.
In Sweden it is actually not unusual to take 4 full weeks off every year in Summer. Especially if you have kids. Can be even 6 weeks for some years if you still got enough parental leave to take. And that is in addition to time off around Christmas, although then maybe not more than 1 1/2 weeks or so.
Parental leave? Lol
Same in France.
I don’t think its a Federal requirement to offer employees any vacation or sick leave in the US. For many office jobs you have to earn leave time over the course of months or years - it’s not unheard of to have zero leave time the first six months of employment.
Paid sick leave, no, but your job is protected by FMLA.
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If you want to save it all and take a month off then so long as the boss is okay with it
Yeah, most bosses aren’t ok with that.
Where I am now I get two consecutive weeks max
It’s sad. The real issue is an odd application of American capitalism and, believe it or not, unions. Yes, those same people that take credit for the 40 hour workweek and weekends prevented guaranteed vacation benefits.
Back in the New Deal when so many benefits were being codified, the unions began lobbying against going too far. The reason was their fear that if employers were forced by law to offer too good of benefits, then people would have no reason to join a union.
Of course, union membership has since collapsed, so we are now all stuck with the fallout and employers thinking 2-3 weeks of PTO is somehow enough. And never mind that as it turns out, European nations generally have higher union membership anyway.
Here is a source: https://www.npr.org/2023/08/17/1194467863/europe-vacation-holiday-paid-time-off
The reason we have vacation time is unions. The thing about a minimum pay in law is not needed here as everything needs to be bargained for. Even if you yourself is not a union member , the bargains are for all employees. Memberships are higher here but on the down in many places , especially if you consider the time before today’s regulations.
And it shows in how weak the union are in some places. Everything gain is always under attack.
The only way for you to get same benefits as we have is throug the union.
Perhaps in Europe, unions pushed for mandatory vacation laws. But listen to my link. They pushed against it here. Not that I am discouraging unions. I’m just pointing out how greed effects everything in the US.
German here: I have yet to witness these “European-style” vacations mentioned in the post title.
Most workplaces seem to frown at people taking >2 consecutive weeks of vacation, esp. if they don’t have kids and do it in main travel season / during school holidays. Handing in ~3 weeks of holidays often at least needs some kind of explanation to the team-lead, e.g. “I have school kids who have their summer holidays and we need to keep them busy until school starts again.”
I have yet to see a single company going easy on someone saying “I’ll be off all of August KTHXBYE”.
I work in IT for a major telecom provider in Scandinavia, and almost everyone takes 3 weeks summer vacation, mostly at the same time.
Management recommends taking as much as possible over the summer, as we have a 5-6 week “slow period” when people’s 3 weeks don’t align.
Other than that, it’s common to just take the rest during other school holidays.
We get 6 weeks by default and earn our way up to 7 weeks after 5 years.
German here as well - this hasn’t been an issue in any company I’ve worked so far, all didn’t have an issue with 3+ weeks.
I’m glad to hear it’s not an issue in your experience / industry.
Here in England there’s a guy I work with who’s taking six months off soon to go to Thailand. Thing is, we’re working for the local authority and they’re pretty good about holidays and sick pay because the wages aren’t very competitive and they need to retain staff.
I work in the automotive industry in the US, but we regularly interact with German suppliers (software and hardware). In my experience, in August especially it seems like half of their office is just out the entire month. I’m sure there’s tons of industries where that isn’t the case, though.
Lol as an American I feel uncomfortable putting in more than 2 consecutive DAYS in a row and I’m salaried, not a service worker or anything. I can’t even imagine having 2 weeks off. I’ve only been able to manage that once in my adult life during one of my transitions to a new company.
I’m gonna assume the remaining 33% prefer to have a vacation other than summertime.
