The co-founder of failed cryptocurrency exchange FTX pleaded not guilty to a seven count indictment charging him with wire fraud, securities fraud and money laundering.
An attorney for FTX co-founder Sam Bankman-Fried said in federal court Tuesday his client has to subsist on bread, water and peanut butter because the jail he’s in isn’t accommodating his vegan diet.
Welcome to the American corrections system, abuses like this and worse happen every day and we just don’t normally hear about them because the defendants aren’t famous like this one is
Its not a corrections system, it’s a punishment system; unfortunately.
People aren’t reformed after leaving prison. Many ex-cons are forced into even worse situations and have to resort back to crimes to survive.
It’s funny because the little shits like him who think they are smarter and above the law, are the same people who are going to power trip on him in jail. I really hope he spends the rest of his life there, see what it’s like to be shorthanded for once.
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I think it’s crazy the number is people here who think that jail/prison is supposed to primarily be about punishment. Do they not understand the concept of recitavism?
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Former Christian fundamentalist here. I think it’s a religious thing, actually. It’s very common in conservative religion in America to believe that there are good and evil things and people, and all you need to do is punish evil things and people. Any problems that exist are punishment from God for allowing evil instead of punishing it. Everything will be solved magically by God once you and your society are “righteous” enough (disapproving enough of evil), something which will never actually happen because this will literally just make things worse, providing more evidence of God’s wrath.
This religious belief has influences far beyond the fundamentalist religion it came from, and it really helps explain why so many right wing movements are so contradictory and hypocritical.
Everyone else is out here thinking things like “if there’s a problem, we need to figure out the solution” while a solid third or more of the American people is literally thinking that they just need to hurt the right people and God will fix it.
(Source: I grew up in the Christian right)
By rest of the world you mean Europe? Latinamerican, African and Asian jails are nightmares compared with US’s ones.
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I would guess that’s depends on the country, all of those have problems with funding, but they differ on the punitive philosophy. For example argentinean prisoners can get jobs that pay the legal minimum wage and all the normal labor rights any worker enjoys, in Brazil they can read books and wrote essays about them to commute prison time, but their jails still lack proper infrastructure and are overcrowded.
Recidivism:
the tendency of a convicted criminal to reoffend.
“the prison has succeeded in reducing recidivism”
Good bot.
I… think that is a human
I am all for mitigating recidivism. I also think some people are just evil and won’t reform. Someone who did the things SBF did won’t reform.
See also: This asshole.
I’m surprised there are no prison rape jokes this time, people love those
It’s because most people saying this shit live in America where all prisons are for pure cruelty and punishment, not rehabilitation.
You see, here in America prisons are an industry that generates profits for stakeholders. True rehabilitation would cut into their profits, therefore they do everything in their power to ensure you never leave, and if you do they will leave you with enough mental trauma and behavioral issues that you will return.
Corporate media propaganda ensures americans continue to support this shit just like all the rest of the fucked up shit around here. Thanks corporate America!
If SBF was free, he would clearly not be able to reoffend. Some folk go to prison for “rehabilitation,” some to die, but his sentence is a punishment.
He hasn’t been sentenced or convicted yet.
Grifters find a new way to grift all the time. He’d reoffend as soon as he was able.
Then he should not be released.
Nah, the vegans absolutely will demand Sam Bankman-Fried’s release on the basis that he’s not getting gourmet vegan meals anymore, simply because all they really care about is their veganism and not other people.
All the loonies care about are themselves.
In these comments, People who:
- think vegetarian is close enough to vegan.
- don’t realise vegan items are no longer vegan if they’re for example, cooked in butter.
- want prisoners to rot in jail from the inside out, literally.
I don’t think prison should be punitive, but I REALLY don’t think jail should be punitive. You haven’t been proven guilty of anything when you’re in jail.
All of the food served in prison/jail is dogshit and it’s not ok. Edible food is a human right. People with ethically based diet restrictions should be protected the same way that religiously based diet restrictions are.
Belief in a make believe sky-daddy doesn’t make one persons ethical dietary choices more important than another’s. Maybe the Satanic Temple can step in and help out the incarcerated vegans. That seems up their alley.
Yes from everything I hear American prisons are all around horrible (by first world standards). This doesn’t seem surprising.
You’re there to be punished by your freedom of movement being taken away. Not by being forced to eat inedible food.
If prisons are going to get nutritious food, then school children need to get it first.
Sysco provides the food to both in many cases.
… Or Aramark
Shudders
Do you really expect a jail to cook things in butter? If they could get away with it, they would probably cook things in waste oil from the next garage.
True enough, but it was just an example. More likely something like mashed potato will have milk or other dairy. Even vegetarian nutriloaf might not qualify as vegan.
Point is not everything that starts out vegan ends up vegan on the plate.
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I’m hesitant to say PINO but there is definitely a cadre of folks who want (for example) food and shelter for the homeless and for their enemies to starve to death in a ditch.
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This has been repeated in case studies around the world since then but the Nuremberg Trials were the first public use of “But of course the other officers at Auschwitz were terrible people but I am not a terrible person!” The psychology would be interesting if it weren’t so frikkin horrific. But I suspect SBF isn’t that so much as a complete and total narcissist and sociopath.
Some of these “enemies” dehumanise themselves very easily. Narcisistic sociopaths who actively and openly brag about manipulating “idiots”, saying they’re the best shit to ever grace the earth and downplay their crimes while laughing all the way to the bank to withdraw ill gotten gains? Yeah, real hard to believe they’d ever want to redeem themselves.
Couple that with the general feeling that rich assholes always get lightly punished whenever they’re caught and it’s even easier to understand the bloodlust for “proper punishment” against them.
I think it has more to do with rich people getting away with murder because they are rich while homeless people getting the worst punishment for stealing a loaf of bread or sleeping on a bench.
And the rest of society getting sick and tired of it, so I see their sentiment.
I don’t believe in capital punishment though, let alone a death sentence.
The thing is, if the rich are getting treated like this in prison, surely it’s going to be even worse for literally anyone else.
When you consider “let X rot in jail” as “capital punishment”, count me in.
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Hell yeah there should be support for capital punishment.
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Seriously, this comment section makes me want to leave Lemmy forever. Why would I build a community with these people?
Unfortunately this isn’t just Lemmy, or even Reddit. People irl feel this way.
Actually, to Lemmy’s credit, I’ve seen way more pushback to that mentality here than I’ve seen anywhere else.
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He is Vegan. Irrespective of how we feel about what he did, the failure to address his core ethical beliefs is completely unacceptable. This would never occur if his belief was rooted in ideas of a higher being or afterlife. Not that I’m planning on going to jail anytime soon, but the thought that I would not be able to abide by that daily practice of my life would be incredibly distressing. Unless he is doing it for environmental reasons (I don’t know) he likely seeks total animal liberation, and you’re going to force feed him stolen animal secretions? Coproducts of dead baby cows and beings bred into painful bodies? The alternative is malnutrition? I would highly consider Jainism or Sikhism on this fact alone. Fuck you if you think he should be forced to go against his ethical beliefs.
his core ethical beliefs is completely unacceptable
his core ethical beliefs
core ethical beliefs
ethical
Nobody said the guy is entirely ethical ¯\(ツ)/¯
I don’t think being forced to consume death/murder is the answer to him not being ethical with people’s funds.
So you aren’t killing the plants and vegetables you eat as a vegan?
Or you perceive no ethical quandaries about murdering plants?
Or plants don’t count because they don’t have the same type of nervous system that allows us to communicate in an ethically direct fashion?
Are trees ethically more important than plants you can ethically eat, thus perceived as more ethically protected under such auspices?
And what’s your ethical stance on property development groups clear cutting small pine tree forested areas near existing residential/industrial/commercial zoned areas to create more affordable single family and multi-family homes for low income families?
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That’s a very sensationalist way to phrase your point and makes you sound fairly biased in the matter.
In the law, religious belief is a protected class, but dietary choice is not. A reasonable debate could be had about if it should be protected. The prison system nor the court room is the right forum, because it needs to be decided by the legislature.
Veganism it’s not a simple dietary choice. Depending on how long the person has been vegan, a sudden switch could make them very sick.
And let’s not pretend that prisons don’t regularly disregard inmates dietary restrictions, even the medically necessary ones. It’s easy to laugh at this one because ‘haha vegan’ but it’s still atrocious to ignore any dietary restriction, let alone such a common one.
Being celiac, or having a nut allergy is a dietary restriction. Voluntarily choosing not to eat animals or animal products is not a dietary restriction.
I’m sure he could ease into a merely vegetarian or occasionally vegetarian diet. He has all the time in the world.
It’s a lifestyle choice based on moral ramifications. I understand that you’re not the legislative but it totally should be a part of the same protected class.
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I think the true argument is that dietary preference is a bit of a slippery slope. One could easily claim that they abide by a diet of only steak, truffles and lobster.
Obviously that is not feasible for a prison kitchen to fulfil. I do agree though that an effort could be made. I’m not sure if religious preference is catered to (no pork f.i.) and I could even see a point of not serving meat at all.
But the bottom line is that you can’t let the prisoner make food demands like that and be considered unethical if not fulfilled. Medically there’s not really a case here. Water and bread sounds a bit brutal, but it’s not likely that he has no choice at all, it’s also a bit of an act that his legal team will no doubt will utilise in court to claim ‘inhuman circumstances’
It’s not a slippery slope. Vegans have a saying, veganism is the moral baseline. Other prisoners who want to eat steak or chicken or hot dogs are being catered to for their preferences even though those actively cause victimization. But somebody wants to not victimize animals with their diet and all of a sudden it’s “fuck them”. None of you have thought about this at all.
No one is forcing him to do anythig. He has bread and water, or he is supposed to receive a special vegan menu?
He is not supposed to be malnourished. If the option is malnutrition, or disregard of ethical beliefs, I’d argue they actually are forcing him.
It’s not about the prisoner. Why are you victimizing animals to feed the other prisoners in the first place, but then acting like it’s unreasonable not to do it?
Irrespective of how we feel about what he did
What he has been accused of doing. He has not been proven guilty. I’m not saying he’s not guilty but until proven so, whatever happened to “innocent until proven guilty”?
Yes earlier in the thread it was very mob like. That’s me just placating I suppose. He has not been proven guilty and they’re already starving him. Doubly wrong.
Nah, fuck him.
You can be vegan for good reasons but I feel like he’s just doing it to make a show.
I also think it’s for show. Having worked in a jail kitchen, they serve lots of cheap food like beans and rice but also have vegetables and other foods that’d be considered vegan. I suspect what’s happening is that he isn’t getting gourmet meals like he was previously accustomed to, so he’s refusing to eat anything else to gain sympathy points.
Depends on how it’s prepared. There are plenty of things one could add to veg that make them nonvegan, and a lot of us do add those things. Assuming originally vegan foods will be prepared and served in a way that keeps them vegan is a poor assumption. Idk about this guy’s actual diet, but I’ve seen a lot of vegans accidentally breaking their diet by eating something they assume is vegan, and then get sick from it since their bodies aren’t used to it anymore. Not to mention the guilt felt by those who are extremely serious about it.
I agree, only because it’s about veganism that there is a supportive reaction. If they were not respecting his Christian/Muslim beliefs for example no one here would bat an eye, especially here.
Admittedly if he held a religion that he claimed required meat consumption I would be in favor of not accommodating him. Thankfully, no major religion does this, because as it turns out in trying to seek ethical practice, they all arrive at the idea that abstaining from killing conscious beings is morally good.
I also believe your first comment is correct and the US prison system is quite messed up to say the least. However I’m being very pragmatic here and I’m not going to shed a tear if he personally only has bread and water to eat. if anything it will do him some good. the problem is that this is applied to every person in jail or most jails.
Word - My point isn’t about this particular guy so much as the precedent to be set for all incarcerated people, and the commentary people have surrounding it.
There are plenty of items on a typical prison menu he can eat without eating “baby cow”, or “blended up chicks” as you put it. There is no need to live off bread and water when there are vegetables, fruit, salad, juice, rice, beans etc. I’m sure this will be pointed out to him and also the limits of what a system will accommodate - dietary or religious needs. Also, his ethics are why he is in prison in the first place so boo hoo for him.
SBF is in prison and has been relieved of his freedom.
The penal system must offer him a diet that satisfies his daily nutritional requirements because he is not free to do so on his own.
The state is not required to support his “ethical beliefs.”
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I don’t think SBF needs rehabilitation or whatever the europeans call it. He needs a prison cell, 3 peanut butter sandwiches, and an hour of rec time… everyday… for twenty years.
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He robbed people of their savings. Imagine losing your retirement?
rehabilitation or whatever the europeans call it
My god dude you’re like a walking parody. Please stop giving the US a bad name.
I have no shame in the believing prison can be used as a punishment. Shouldn’t be the only thing it’s used for, but it’s what this fella needs.
Oh for sure, punishment is historically a super effective solution after all.
Huh? Recidivism? What’s that?
If SBF would reoffend I’d gladly pay the taxes to give him another twenty years of sandwiches. I don’t care about healing this man.
Can the state require you to eat the body or bodily fluids of someone you affirm has rights to bodily autonomy, someone we know to be wholly innocent because they lack agency?
No.
They’re required to make the offer. I believe the prison where he’s incarcerated has even offered him the option of vegetarian meals to complement his PB sandwiches.
I think that’s a very generous offer that’s he’s used his agency to reject because he’s a fool.
has even offered him the option of vegetarian meals
That doesn’t necessarily work at all. Vegans don’t eat food that contain or are prepared with any dairy or egg product. It’s very likely all of their vegetarian meals are not Vegan accessible.
Sounds like he will continue to enjoy peanut butter then :)
In case it wasn’t clear, you’re not corresponding with someone who cares if SBF is allowed to eat a vegan diet in prison.
It’s the precedent set for prisoners in general that you should have a problem with. He just so happens to be the one in the public eye that is affected right now. Forcing him to either go against his beliefs or be nutritionally deficient is not okay. Your feelings about SBF are not at issue. We can end this chain on that note.
Currently only religious beliefs are supported by the prison industry. If he couldn’t eat kosher, for example, I would agree that that’s a problem.
What if he was pescaterian? Or on a Keto diet? It’s this zone that I don’t think the state needs to entertain. SBF happens to be vegan and vegan is in the region in my mind.
I guess my question is: Is there a limit to the extent which the state should go to satisfy your dietary preferences?
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I’d personally consider it pretty cruel and inhumans to force someone to violate their own ethics on a daily basis.
Then write your elected official if you have one. I don’t really care if he gets to live his best life.
Just give the guy vegan food ffs. Fucking Americans are so obsessed with making life as shitty as possible for anyone any chance they get.
For anyone? Ever heard of this guy?
Yes, I have, he’s a horrible person, but treating him poorly will not undoe what he’s done. And this goes far beyond this one person. The entire us “”“justice”“” system is based around this.
Well then, by that logic, nothing bad should ever happen to anyone regardless of what they do, meaning they’re now free to harm others as they wish.
What the fuck are you even talking about? Are you a troll or are you just thick as pig shit?
stolen animal secretions ethical beliefs
Theft from animals is unethical, while theft from humans is ethical (based on his actions and your logic). From this we can extrapolate that humans aren’t animals at all.
Thanks SBF! That clear up a lot.
I don’t believe his choices are THAT limited. Most prisons will have a self-service line with a choice of boiled veg, rice, beans, potatoes, pasta, fruit, grits, oats. Also, and just generally, boo hoo for him. Funny how his ethics extend to what he eats, but not who he steals from.
Also bread and water is a vegan diet, lol
I have a feeling the only reason this guy is facing consequences is because he defrauded other rich people.
Yep. He fucked with the money.
That’s what happened with Elizabeth Holmes, too. She defrauded both her investors and the patients using her products. She was only convicted of one of those. Guess which one?
Jail should accommodate a vegan diet, but it also seems like are to some extent. PB sandwiches are food. As long as he can cobble together a nutritionally complete diet, it isn’t cruel to have boring meals. Obviously JUST peanut butter sandwiches won’t do it but I have to think they have potatoes, beans, rice on the menu too, stuff like that.
Just because they’re on the menu doesn’t mean they’re vegan. They’re often made with meat or meat stocks.
Jail should accommodate a vegan diet
I think that should go without saying, and the real question is why isn’t it the default? Why are we bothering to give prisoners (inherently relatively expensive/less sustainable) meat or dairy to begin with?
Because meat isn’t taxes properly so that having a decent meat based diet is cheaper than having a decent plant based one
Sure there are a lot of cheap vegan meals, too, but some of them are harder and/or take longer to prepare than cheap meat-based food
I’d guess the dairy/meat lobby would complain a lot of they didn’t have people forced to eat their stuff in prison
Id guess it’s a very nice baseline of product-sales
We never get news articles on how the common prisoner views the food. Fuck this billionaire thief.
The only reason this is being talked about is because he was a billionaire. Boo hoo poor guy stole 7billion Dollars, and now can’t have the lifestyle he was used to
It’s funny how we want to be treated as human beings but when it’s about someone we perceive as “the enemy” human rights be damned. “We” should not be treated unfairly, but “they” deserve whatever they get.
Yup, people treat criminals like literal monsters so they don’t have to face uncomfortable moral dilemmas. It’s very black and white, and easy.
It’s also incredibly depressing, and goes to show how many people lack basic empathy.
Spot on. The very reason I subscribe to the left wing is because I believe everyone deserves a decent life as far as possible, including people who’ve committed fraud.
“We” are following the rules society has agreed on. “They” are being selfish assholes and fucking up other people’s lives.
No one is saying criminals don’t deserve some form of punishment. I’m saying that doesn’t mean they don’t deserve basic humanity. Even if someone stole a lot of money I’m not ready to condemn that person to a life of constant pain and humiliation.
It’s not about what they “deserve”, it’s about the bare minimum humane treatment I would be willing to accept for any human being.
A second attorney for Bankman-Fried, Christian Everdell, also said in court Tuesday that serious Sixth Amendment need to be addressed because Bankman-Fried has no way to prepare and participate in his defense. Everdell said that he has had no access to discovery materials for 11 days and that there are only six weeks left to the start of the trial.
[…]
But he was remanded to jail this month over allegations of witness tampering. His trial is set to begin Oct. 2. On Aug. 11, Kaplan denied his request to delay detention pending an appeal.
Starting to look like it wasn’t a smart move meddling in the case, Sam. Almost as if actions have repercussions.
Also his League of Legends ranking has suffered terribly since his incarceration. This is a major human rights issue.
I have to tip my hat to you on that one.
So let him buy his food from the commissary. The prison doesn’t serve potatoes? You can live off potatoes alone for a long time. Is there juice, cereal, rice, or beans? I find it hard to believe there isn’t. He’s clearly exaggerating the limits of his diet.
It’s jail. You don’t get to go where you want, do what you want, wear what you want, or eat what you want. You don’t get to make choices about your life. That is part of the punishment.
You should look at what prisoners get to eat in France. Here in Spain prisoners wear their own clothes, only guards wear uniforms.
I believe the idea of prison should be that you are punished by you’re freedom of movement being taken away. Not by being forced to eat inedible food or food that goes against your moral code.
It’s jail.
Yes it is. Which is where you go before being sentenced. So maybe don’t punish people so harshly.
I’m not saying he deserves a gourmet vegan diet, but a few accommodations wouldn’t be beyond the pale.
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I’m not sure the commissary accepts crypto …
Exactly. While he might have to find alternative sources of protein by forgoing meat there is obviously going to be ample stuff on the menu he can eat. If he claims he’s living off bread and water, he is either an extraordinarily picky eater, or more likely just a liar out for some sympathy.
Bread, PB, and water is a perfectly fine meal. That shit was a delicacy when I was a kid in post-soviet Europe.
Besides, he’s in jail because he fucked up his bond. He’s not there to have a good time.
Depriving someone of nutrition isn’t an acceptable punishment.
It sounds like he’s depriving himself
Man, I guess stealing a billion dollars and getting busted and put in prison means your choices for stuff get reduced. Who would have thought?!
But is that fair? Shouldn’t prisons be places you can have all of the amenities you enjoyed in life before you broke the law? What are our taxes being spent on if not fiber internet and Netflix in every cell? Signed, SBFaltaccountNERDSlol
They should get him those vegan meals the airlines have in economy class. That would work, no? Vegan enough for him to eat, but not enjoy.
Airplane meals aren’t really that bad.
It is just that at that altitude, the pressure causes your taste to work worse than on the ground.
So I’m afraid it wouldn’t really be a punishment.
what is it with fraudsters and weird hair
Aliens.
