A federal judge has blocked the state of Hawaii from enforcing a recently enacted ban on firearms on its prized beaches and in other areas including banks, bars and parks, citing last year’s landmark U.S. Supreme Court ruling expanding gun rights.
Apart from the “why do you need it” question, the beach is specifically a place people often leave items that can’t be taken in the water unattended. Sure, legislators can write laws about how a gun must not be left unattended and gun nuts can swear up and down about how they would never do that, but they will. No matter how much you think “there’s a lot of people around” or “I’ll just be in and out” or “I’ll watch my stuff from the water”, thefts happen, and now a mundane occurrence has turned a supposedly (not really) “safe” and “legal” gun into one of those dangerous “illegal” guns they can’t be held responsible for.
We were perfectly happy with our gun laws, and they worked, and now fringe nutcases and a politically captured courts are telling us we can’t implement common sense restrictions because the nuts have a panic attack if they’re not constantly armed.
the nuts have a panic attack if they’re not constantly armed.
That’s the real issue, here. These guys are absolutely fucking terrified 100% of the time. They pack heat in order to feel like something besides a helpless babyman.
I have never even once felt like I couldn’t possibly pick up a head of lettuce and some yogurt from the supermarket without some moral support from a gun. It’s just fucking bizarre.
Why do you assume they are absolutely fucking terrified vs thinking better safe than sorry?
I know the risk of a violent encounter is low, but I carry because it’s the only reliable way to not be at a disadvantage in a fight.
Having a plan to avoid being assaulted isn’t the same as living in terror.
Protip - if some group seems totally ridiculous, there’s a good chance you don’t understand something important.
Why do you assume they are absolutely fucking terrified vs thinking better safe than sorry?
Because they are too afraid to go to a grocery store without a gun. That means they’re really, really bad at risk assessment. And that makes them dangers to themselves and others.
I know the risk of a violent encounter is low, but I carry because it’s the only reliable way to not be at a disadvantage in a fight.
Do you? Do you actually know that? Because your odds of being a shooting victim are way, way higher as a handgun owner than as a grocery shopper. You’re more likely to be hit by lightning than to be in a violent confrontation at the supermarket, and yet you don’t go around in a rubber suit to be “better safe than sorry.”
Having a plan to avoid being assaulted isn’t the same as living in terror.
And yet you’re not wearing a rubber suit. Your risk aversion needs calibration if the gun that objectively makes you less safe makes you feel more safe.
Protip - if some group seems totally ridiculous, there’s a good chance you don’t understand something important.
Or they could be members of the Westboro Baptist Church, and they are totally ridiculous.
For the record, I don’t think all gun owners are ridiculous - certainly not to the level of the WBC. I don’t even think people who feel the need to pack heat while going out for milk are ridiculous. But they’re definitely scared, and bad at assessing risks.
The other day I was at the grocery store and someone shouldered me and my cart out of the way when I was comparing cantaloupes. He looked at me funny like he was gonna start some shit so I blew him away. Motherfuckers not going to take me out without a fight. #alphamale #iamverybadass
we can’t implement common sense restrictions because the nuts have a panic attack if they’re not constantly armed.
Do you honestly think that panic attacks by gun carriers is the blocker to reasonable gun laws? The number of people that carry firearms regularly is not statistically significant, let alone those with panic attacks.
I carry a concealed firearm because I think it’s important for at risk groups to be able to defend themselves. I don’t panic when I don’t carry, but I recognize that I’m less prepared to defend myself from assault.
It’s important to understand those you disagree with.
I can’t think of any at-risk group that has meaningful influence on gun legislation, but many of the groups propping up the Republican party have been convinced they are in mortal danger.
Though, frankly, I do find someone who thinks restrictions to carrying a gun at a beach in peaceful and multicultural Hawaii aren’t reasonable to be a bit of a nut regardless of whatever risks you have in your personal life.
Guns can absolutely be safe, and if they’re bringing it to the beach, it’s probably safe to assume it’s legal.
However, why the fuck anyone needs a gun at a beach is beyond me (or a grocery store, or library, or any number of other ridiculous places to bring a gun). America really needs to get their priorities straight, because it’s not really funny anymore, it’s scary.
Guns, by definition, are not safe. They’re literally made to kill people. You can take all the precautions in the world to mitigate the risks, of course, but the safest gun is the one that nobody can touch.
They’re made to kill, what they kill is up to the person holding it. They aren’t something people should be toting around at the beach, you take them hunting, or to a range.
Genuine question, does anybody ever hunt with pistols?
Long guns are one thing, handguns are pretty explicitly anti-personnel weapons from my understanding.
The hunters I know who carry a pistol do so do put down the animal in the case that the first shot didn’t do it but I don’t think it’s that common especially now that it’s virtually impossible to get a permit for pistol in my country
They’re made to kill. Hence, unsafe
What if I put one inside a safe?
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Then you can throw the safe at someone. Safe is unsafe. Unsafe all the way down
As soon as a gun is introduced anywhere, safety automatically drops. That is a statistical fact.
Guns can’t be safe unless they’re unloaded or broken
And gun safety 101 teaches you a gun is always loaded.
and
What happened to respecting states rights? So sick of the judicial branch in the US, the most untethered and corrupt branch of them all. Which is saying a lot considering the state of the legislative branch.
Republicans only care about state’s rights when they can use state law to push one of their terrible policies at state level because they can’t force it nationally.
i.e. slavery
States’ rights only exists in the eyes of Conservatives if it’s related to owning other humans.
Republicans want all power consolidated at the level they can most effectively control. They were only ever about “states’ rights” because they typically are better at capturing state governments than national institutions.
Nothing else matters when something like MUH GUNS are at stake
It was never a thing, and the GOP has never given a shit about it.
Republicans have no political agenda, but they do have a judicial agenda.
Hawaii is a colonial project and isn’t respected by the federal court circuits in the same manner that continental states are. It’s closer to Guam and Puerto Rico than other states in that it carries disproportionate financial and military burdens, including the effects from the Jones act for example.
How big of a coward do you have to be to feel the need to bring a gun to the beach?
Have you met a conservative man lately? They’re scared of everything. Especially their own feelings
I think I know why… They’re criminals.
Pretty much only criminals have people trying to kill them everyday.
Maybe America just has a lot of criminals Maybe so many that it’s starting to show in our politics and democracy.
I wish this post wasn’t so believable. …it was supposed to be sarcasm.
Can I carry one into the court where the justices meet? Or is safety just something the “little people” need to work about?
Another awful law 6 years in the making, all thanks to people being too lazy to go out and vote.
We are going to be feeling the repercussions of that laziness for decades to come.
In today’s world, we can still see the results of Reaganomics and the terrible Reagan administration and what it did to this country some 4 decades later. Allowing Trump to enter the White House 6 years ago has, and will, continue to have a similar profound negative effect on the trajectory of this country for a long, long time.
You guys sure showed us!
Lazy?
Have you forgotten about the gerrymandering and voter suppression that’s been going on?
This is a result of a SCOTUS decision. SCOTUS membership is determined by the president and control of the senate at the time of vacancies. Neither of those are influenced by gerrymandering.
At the core of it this comes down to 2016 when a larger than typical number of people on the left lied to themselves and said “eh, they’re all teh same” and tossed their vote at a third party or just didn’t vote at all. Following that, SCOTUS went from a 4-4 tie (with 1 vacancy) to 6-3 conservative advantange.
I wouldn’t blame laziness, but instead a combination of apathy and people who are more interested in ideological purity than in accepting the available-better such that they would rather complain about the unavailable-best.
RBG refusing to retire in 2012-2014 also shares blame. She could have retired then and the court would be 5-4 instead.
That 1 vacancy should have been Obama’s pick. It was fucking stolen from him, and now we’re paying the price of “decorum”.
Of course, Republican hypocrites shoved another conservative justice on the bench before RBG’s body was even cold, even after Trump lost the election (not to mention impeached).
It wasn’t just 4 years of Trump that we had to endure, it’s now three lifetime conservative appointments to the supreme court. So progressive legislation is stalled for another 30+ years. Our generation will be as old as the fucking Boomers are now before we get another chance at kicking out the conservatives, whose ideology is literally killing the planet. Gen Z and the generation that follows them will rightfully blame us for our inaction.
Or instead of giving up we could make court expansion and reform a litmus test in future Democratic primaries. And/or normalize the idea that judicial rulings need to be enforced by someone else and they too have agency.
Because allowing this to continue for much of our remaining lives is also decorum. We live in an unjust system, but it’s not just how life has to be for the next 30 years.
I don’t entirely disagree, but I’d like to see an actual roadmap for how such changes would be implemented. Voting for somebody who promises court expansion and reform, but doesn’t have the support of either the legislative or judicial branches and doesn’t have a concrete method of implementing it, seems like they are set up to fail.
I want to see more ruthless politicians on the left as well, but not if they can’t actually follow through with their promises.
Easy:
- Vote in better Democrats
- Abolish the filibuster
- Pass law changing the number of justices on the court
Support from the legislature is all that’s important. If the justices say “you can’t do it”, then ignore them because clearly they can. The constitution says very little about the supreme court and its size has been changed multiple times before. This is just doing history again.
The president and senate aren’t affected by gerrymandering?
Whaaaaa?
Since you actually seem to be asking… There is no gerrymandering at the federal level in the presidential election. You could argue that the electoral voting system is somehow a form of this, but it isn’t the same as intentionally drawing districts to mathematically skew the advantage to the party drawing the map. That said, because electoral votes are based upon congressional representation, they do weigh smaller, emptier states more heavily. US senators are entirely free from gerrymandering as they are directly elected by popular vote. Small, empty states do have more power as a result and by design, for better or worse.
It doesn’t really matter if a state is “empty”, what matters is the population not the density.
And for what it’s worth: of the ten states with the least population, half generally vote for Democrats (HI, VT, DE, RI, ME). They are often overlooked in these discussions because they are mostly small in area too.
Hawaii isn’t in the ten least populous states and Maine isn’t a blue state. It’s not a straight sort, but Republicans far and away benefit from the unequal representation of the Senate and Electoral College.
Maine has voted for the Democratic candidate in every presidential election in the past 30 years. It’s true that it has a Republican Senator, but if that means it’s a battleground state then by the same logic so are Montana and West Virginia. Those incumbents are popular despite their party, but when they finally leave the Senate they will be replaced by someone in the opposite party.
But you’re right that Hawaii is not one of the ten smallest. It’s eleventh. However, I left out New Hampshire, which voted for the Democratic candidate in every presidential election in the past 30 years except one. So of the eleven smallest states, six consistently send Democrats to the electoral college.
While it’s still arguable that Republicans have unfair representation in the Senate and EC, the issue is more complicated than simply blaming the small states. Or for that matter the big states: the top ten include three red (FL, TX, OH), three blue (CA, NY, IL) and four battlegrounds (GA, NC, MI, PA).
Population density absolutely matters, because when an ignorant person looks at an electoral map, by county, it looks like a couple small blue dots in a sea of red. If the wrong person shows them that map, it can become pretty simple to convince them that Democrats are cheating them because, “just look at all that red!”
It is also about how districts in larger, more empty states, use that mostly empty area to gerrymander their blue population centers. You can’t do that in smaller, highly dense, states.
And then, there’s this: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-04-01/how-the-density-of-your-county-affects-how-you-vote
I was responding to someone who said that “empty” states have disproportionate power in the electoral college and Senate. Their emptiness does not give them undue power, regardless of what ignorant people think.
Read a book.
What do you believe gerrymandering is?
It means drawing legislative districts for political advantage. But elections for the Presidency and Senate ignore legislative district maps.
I know what it is. Read a book.
Remember how a lot of ML communities on Reddit (now on Lemmy) were banning people from their subreddits for saying to vote Biden
ML? I don’t know what that stands for, but I did see the absurdity of Bernie and so-called progressive subs that were trying to convince people that a vote for Trump would further Bernie’s agenda more than a vote for Hillary. They also were trying to convince people to “stick it to the DNC” and simply sit out the vote.
So the foreign agents running those subs were trying to flip some votes and push voter apathy onto others. Doesn’t take much to change an election and the stuff I saw was clearly just a teeny, tiny part of their larger misinformation campaign. A few key votes here or there and that would easily explain Trump’s victory.
There is no way this stuff isn’t happening on Lemmy now. In fact, I guarantee it is.
Why the fuck does anyone need a gun on the beach? I can’t think of one justifiable argument for needing one there.
Land sharks
Hmm. Fair point.
Your right, damn sandsharks.
But, what if someone sees an undesirable, having a good time, and simply wants to exercise their god-given right to harass them without fear of consequences?
How do you stand your ground at them without this most basic thing?
It’s really sad that a lot of Americans think that’s an actual valid argument.
Isn’t it? I got sad writing it.
My alternative was to point out that some sharks are black and there are cops on the beaches but I felt this line does a better job. Slightly more relevant.
It’s not a valid argument, because frankly both harassment and brandishing a firearm are both illegal everywhere in the USA, which means there actually is consequences.
Brandishing a firearm? Cops will shrug and say if you weren’t shot, there’s no issue and laugh at you.
A well tanned Militia, being necessary to the security of a free Shore, the right of the beachgoers to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Best comment I’ve read on lemmy yet.
lol This one made me laugh.
To fight the dangerous riptide?
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Beach moose.
“Beach moose! Everybody run for cover! I’ll take care of this!” and then I just started blastin’…
Seagulls
I guess. They are rats of the sky.
Because they’re constantly pants shittingly terrified of anything they don’t understand and need a gun to feel anything other than the constant overwhelming feeling of cowardice in the face of normal life.
Good point.
🤣
Well duh how else are you going to protect yourself from all the other armed people on the beach?
And like, what about sandcrabs?
It’s like that Taylor Swift song goes: “It’s like guns on the beach, weird but fuckin beau-POP POP POP POP”.
It’s an American classic.
The law in question prohibits licensed carry of firearms from a list of areas and premises, it does not only ban guns on beaches.
posted by @30mag@lemmy.world
Why do they defend so hard for like the one weird out of 1000 who openly waves a gun around that makes everyone extremely uncomfortable. People around open carriers don’t think “wow freedom!”, they get super fucking uncomfortable.
Because that one out of a thousand is also the noisiest person at their local officials office
Damn, the US annexation of Hawai’i continues to hurt their nation :-(
I hope one day they can win their freedom back.
If they can’t ban guns, they should ban conservatives instead. Problem solved.
Friendly Reminder: It is perfectly legal to discriminate based on political affiliation. Do your part to help fight conservatism by excluding conservatives in your daily life. It is not appropriate to conduct business or keep relationships with such people.
what about the liberal gun owners?
Good luck finding a liberal gun owner who is bringing it to a beach…
This is the twisted retarded logic that conservatives hold.
“I’m a piece of shit who wants to bring a gun to the beach, Liberals must want the same terrible things I do”
USA: Has major gun violence problem.
US legal system: yEw cANt tAYKE thUR fReeDUMB
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look just cuz they have a life sentence doesn’t mean we can start killing each other’s politicians. we need that do-nothing POS controlled opposition party to expand the court
“Who needs guns on the beach”
I’m trans. Id sooner never go. But if I had to, with the way things are going, you bet your ass I am afraid and would rather be armed
As a trans person, would you rather go to a beach where nobody is armed, or to a beach where everybody might be armed?
I’m not trans, but I’d rather go where everyone might be armed. Just because everyone is supposed to not bring a gun somewhere doesn’t mean there won’t be someone that does- how many shootings in the US happen in “gun free zones”?
Only in the US. When I go to the beach in my country, Australia, I’d never even consider the possibility of a gunman.
I’ll foolishly assume this is a comment posted by a human in good faith and not a troll or a bot.
Does fog of war mean anything to you? Go to a crowded place where everyone is armed. Person 1 is a baddie and kills person 2. Person 3 is a Good Guy and shoots person 1. People 4, 5, and 6 are also Good Guys With Guns and didn’t directly observe the original altercation, they only observed Person 3 shooting Person 1, and assume Person 3 shot Person 2 as well. People 4, 5, and 6, open fire on Person 3. They are bad shots though and the adrenaline dump makes them miss, so People 7, 8, and 9 get shot in the crossfire. At this point it is total chaos, everyone is either shooting at everyone else (fight), running in panic (flight), getting shot in the crossfire (freeze), or just shrieking their head off at the carnage in front of them (freak). Then the police arrive and shoot the survivors.
Congratufuckinglations, we now have a bunch of bodies and dozens of traumatized people because you morons couldn’t leave your fucking guns at home and enjoy the goddamn beach.
I hate this country so much sometimes.
Hell yes. Make guns a nonpartisan “nonissue.” Armed minorities are harder to oppress, and gun control disproportionately affects minorities in marginalized and overpoliced communities. One state just removed the requirement for pistol purchase permits because (as it was designed to be in the first place since it was a Jim Crow era law) racist sheriffs were denying black people’s permits, 60% of denials were to black people.
Yeah, famously, the US doesn’t oppress minorities because of all the guns.
There’s a reason California has so much gun control, and it is Ronald Reagan being racist in the 80’s because the Black Panthers were exercising their right to bare arms, because it was making it harder for the police to oppress them. In fact CCW and purchase permits were designed and are often still used as a way to keep POC from exercising their rights, as it makes them harder to oppress if they can carry. They use gun control to oppress those minorities, things like stop and frisk, or denying permits and charging them when they carry anyway. They enforce this gun control primarily in overpoliced marginalized minority neighborhoods, not in gated communities or majority white neighborhoods. Regardless of your intentions or perceptions, the real life effects of gun control are these, and it is harder to oppress a person/community/people who have guns than one who does not.
While Reagan was racist and was responsible for a lot of bad shit in the '80s, what you’re talking about with the Panthers was in the late '60s.
@sin_free_for_00_days @ArcaneSlime
Reagan was governor of CA in the 60’s. And he never changed his ways.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/gun-control-rights-restrictions-black-panthers-reagan-11663703535
Girlfreddy was quick with it! But yeah, that.
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That Supreme Court case was a ridiculous rewriting of historical facts.
That can apply to just about every case the Supreme Joke have given the last few years
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