• Roundcat@kbin.socialOP
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    1 year ago

    The difference between Hitler and the countries I mentioned is that Hitler already has a word associated with his regime: Nazi. When you here it in public, that is the connection you make. Unfortunately that is the same connection people make with communism and people like Stalin or Mao. Regardless of whether the Soviet Union was truly communist or not, it is the country most people associate with the term. Hell, even many leftists make that association, which is why the Soviet flag, communist leaders, and propaganda prints are featured heavily in many communist memes. I agree that the word communism shouldn’t be tied to these regimes forever, but its hard to make a case for reclaiming it when many communist continue to push the association themselves.

    Like I said, I mostly agree with the ideal expressed by Engels and Marx, but because of it’s association most people make between communism and the the regimes mentioned above, I think we are doing ourselves a disservice by continuing to gather around symbols and iconography many people in Eastern Europe and Asians associate with imperialism, genocide, and tyranny.

    I agree with your second point, which is why I do call myself an anarchist. I believe power is an irresistibly corrupting force, and it doesn’t matter what the intentions are of the people who seize it, if there is too much of it concentrated in the hands of one person, organization, class, or country, it is going to corrupt them. That is why my ideal world would be one with no states, no large governments, no class divisions. where communities can more or less govern themselves according to their needs, and through cooperation and mutual aid, these communities can keep each other afloat, and stand together in times of need. Overly simplified, Let’s say I listen to John Lennon’s Imagine, and wish that could be us.

    Yeah, and I’ve seen you around too, and you seem pretty cool, which I why I wanted to carry on this discussion. Forgive me that this thread kinda turned into a communist dunk as that actually wasn’t my intention. I was more to show the types of people I usually see arguing in the threads. And no need for the push, I think anarchists are awesome, and its kinda the journey I took from being a conservative to a leftist. There is still a lot I’m learning and trying to unlearn from my past though.

    Thanks for the reading material too.

    • DessertStorms@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      First of all I’m glad you don’t think I’m a creep lol but also that you’re happy to hear where I’m coming from, I think we’d probably agree on most things…

      ow for the messy part lol

      The difference between Hitler and the countries I mentioned is that Hitler already has a word associated with his regime: Nazi

      Nazi literally stands for “national socialist”, which is why I asked in the first place. There are plenty of people today who still argue that hitler was a leftist because of this connection, and think socialism = genocide. That doesn’t make socialism actually = genocide though, not because there wasn’t genocide, but because there wasn’t socialism. It’s shifting the focus to the wrong part of the problem.

      So while I can understand where your view comes from (that bad people ruined a good name so we shouldn’t use the good name anymore) it doesn’t actually stand up in the real world - there will always be people with bad intentions who ruin good things (or simply anything they see as a threat to their power) to attempt to make them “unusable” to those with good intentions, playing in to that only benefits them, not you.

      Hell, even “democracy” as we accept it today has nothing to do with actual democracy, but instead it exists to maintain the status quo (by providing the illusion of choice between only 2 parties, both of which work for and uphold capitalism)

      That is why my ideal world would be one with no states, no large governments, no class divisions. where communities can more or less govern themselves according to their needs, and through cooperation and mutual aid

      literally the definition of communism!

      the journey I took from being a conservative to a leftist.

      this explains a lot, especially the willingness to still hear out capitalists. I come from a liberal home and upbringing, so while I raised to question the status quo (to an extent anyway) I had (and still do) a lot to unlearn, it’s not quite as much as someone from a conservative background does, but the fact that you’ve come this far is pretty fucking impressive and says a lot about you!

      I think you would really benefit from reading more in to how capitalist superpowers, mainly the US but not only, have not only propagandised you (everyone) in to a complete misunderstanding of what communism and socialism (and anarchism) are, but have actively interfered in pretty much all attempts at socialism and communism guaranteeing they fail (which is also why so many communist experiments end up so heavily militarised - to defend against encroaching capitalists. If capitalism was abolished communism wouldn’t need to constantly be on the defence, leaving less room for dictators to grab power via military means). Here are some starting points:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism
      https://history.state.gov/milestones/1945-1952/truman-doctrine
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change
      https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/10/the-indonesia-documents-and-the-us-agenda/543534/
      https://blog.uvm.edu/sosten-centralamerica/2019/04/16/u-s-intervention-in-central-america-1970-present/

      And just a side note - I’d currently consider myself more of an anarchist than a communist too, mostly because I believe communism will never work if it’s being grown from the ashes of (or still actively opposed by) the oppressive and exploitative systems we all know as the default (or have been made to believe it is, anyway). We need to break down the entire way we educate and socialise as a (currently extremely hierarchal) society before we can get to the full blown fully automated luxury gay communism. But I do believe we can get there, and that it is the best way for society to manage itself.