- cross-posted to:
- technews@radiation.party
- cross-posted to:
- technews@radiation.party
Researchers jailbreak a Tesla to get free in-car feature upgrades::A group of researchers found a way to hack a Tesla’s hardware with the goal of getting free in-car upgrades, such as heated rear seats.
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I’m amazed that it’s legal for a car company to sell you something, and then after you own it, remotely disable xyz aspects of the functionality unless you pay them more. How can that be legal? I own the car, it’s MINE now, how can I not use every single thing that’s in it?
The captalism, American politics bought and paid for.
I mean you are correct to some extent. But I’m curious, how does this not happen in a system where the state has full control? The only difference is the consumer has no other choices and the “politics” don’t have to be paid for as they are already fully in control.
Unless you mean to say that by the good graces of the government they’d never do that in a state run economy because it’s morally wrong. In which case… Lol
People who say things like that don’t understand what regulations are or that better regulated capitalism is probably what they want
State-run authoritarian economies generally aren’t so money-obsessed that they pull weird shit like this, but generally suffer from drastic inequality, distribution inefficiency, and a general lack of freedom and innovation. The most effective economic models from what I’ve seen are hybrid models, with a regulated market system with some nationalized industries. Morally though, I also believe that a nation’s economic system should be democratic and that people should have a say in how their workplace is run and who their workplace leadership should be.
the state does not look out for the interests of the people, so it makes perfect sense really.
Because you don’t own the car, you’re just leasing the use of it.
Same reason it’s legal for HP to brick your printer if you use third party ink. You violated their shitty TOS that none of us read because it’s 80 pages of legalese, but you agreed to it.
hmmm yes I suppose that’s true. Okay so let me rephrase: I’m amazed it’s legal for a car manufacturer to even HAVE a TOS like that when you purchase a car. It shouldn’t be legal to write language like “you are purchasing this but agreeing that you can’t use it” … wtf?
“you wouldn’t download an in-car feature”
I’d do it even if I didn’t want the feature.
You are stealing that feature. Because of you some innocent tesla owner will have their in-car features taken away by the piracy enforcement team.
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consumer activism, rich people that think they’re helping the world and feel good about themselves by buying a brand new electric car. also most people are just technologically illiterate so yea.
I’m not defending this practice (it’s gross), but
people and critics almost universally lovemany people and critics who actually own/drive Teslas love them.So, you’re kind of mischaracterizing them as “worse than other cars.”
edit: it’s unsurprising that this comment is downvoted in a thread hellbent on shitting on Tesla. I don’t know what I expected.
This is an interesting comment to make. For years I’ve seen people shitting all over musk and Tesla, specifically because they have a ton of build quality issues
No, it’s not “almost universal”. Even before musk becomes public idiot number one, there was a lot of hate for these cars
Maybe my opinion is dated/anecdotal.
My belief re: critics comes from early days of Tesla, when the concept of a fast ev was very foreign to most auto journalists. So, most of the reviews were something along the lines of “I wanted to hate this car, but goddamn if it isn’t faster than insert critic’s favorite sports car and way more useful too. I’m converted.”
Re: people in general, I’m basing it off of people I know who own them. That’s admittedly a very small sample size (~a dozen), but their opinions are the polar opposite of what you’ll find on random Internet forums. There’s definitely selection bias going on in both directions.
For what it’s worth, I’m very aware of the QA issues and no I don’t own a Tesla myself.
Tesla does a lot of things right - their cars are amongst the fastest around and their charging network is superior to any others to date
But their build quality is poor and their autonomous driving features are overstated compared to what they can deliver
Plus their service support is limited due to their direct sell model - there aren’t many places to get Tesla’s repaired
Tesla did make EVs mainstream though. Consider that their cars outsell popular ICE cars even though the Tesla’s cost 50%+ more
So, it’s a mixed bag with a lot of their customers, and some outsiders, absolutely fanatical about them, some people hating them by proxy because of Musk, and some people 50/50 on them like any car brand
Most people that have purchased Teslas have already been invested and just about everything ever including gut feel tells you at that point that they’re not going to say it was a mistake to buy a thing they spent $50-100k on.
People don’t like admitting they were suckered, and certainly not to people they are trying to impress.
How do you come to that conclusion, and why would it be different for any other car?
I have both a bmw (330, 6 cylinder) and a tesla m3. The bmw is only 2 years older. Nowadays I prefer to drive the m3 by a wide margin for various reasons.
Musk had nothing to do with that, on the contrary it is more in spite of him than because of him that I bought one. I think that goes for most Tesla owners, as most of them are politically moderate and centrists and do not like extremists like him (or any).
Right wingers are ideologically against it and rather damage themselves by their ideology, and lefists tend to not have the money :) or (in Europe at least) are against any means of individual non-public transport.
…people and critics almost universally love Teslas…
Not sure where you get that from. Elon and Tesla cult members might have you think so but a Google search on Teslas reputation show differently. Consuser affairs showing about 60% positive.
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/tesla_motors.html?#sort=top_reviews&filter=1
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How high are you right meow?
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Most car manufacturers charge money for those kind of upgrades. The difference is they specifically build or do not build the features into the car. If Tesla doesn’t charge meaningfully more and if they do not turn it into a subscription, I wouldn’t knock them for it.
There’s a lot to bitch at Tesla about, but being able to decide after the fact that you want a heated steering wheel isn’t one of them. FSD being bullshit even if it was free (and it is far from free!), the refusal to allow Android Auto/CarPlay, the intentionally rosy range estimates, the association with Musk… those are what I’d focus on. Unlockable steering wheel heating is not an issue.
but being able to decide after the fact that you want a heated steering wheel isn’t one of them.
No one is bitching about being able to decide that you want a heated steering wheel. You can decide to install it on literally any car brand or model.
People are bitching about the hardware that they have paid for and they own being locked behind by a software paywall. This would cause a riot with practically any other consumer electronics. Imagine if the fingerprint scanner on your smartphone was an extra $50 to unlock? Or quick charge being an extra $75?
That would be the most anti-consumer horseshit we’ve seen, and that’s exactly what Tesla is doing.
Kind of like adding a little chip to the charger cable of a cellphone that identifies the charger as a brand cable and without that chip, the phone won’t charge or use the perfectly good cable for data transfer. If that sounds familiar, it’s because that’s what Apple did/does.
E: fixed autocorrect
It’s not even extra to unlock in some cases. They want a monthly subscription. They want you to own nothing. They want you to “license” your car from them and then turn your shit off if you miss a payment.
It’s all rent seeking bullshit and I’ll ride the terrible public transit instead of buying another car if those are my options the next time I go to buy a car.
Other brands are experimenting with this too. BMW already has features that you have to pay to unlock as well. See https://basic-tutorials.com/news/coding-companies-want-to-unlock-additional-features-from-bmw/ for example.
Imagine if the fingerprint scanner on your smartphone was an extra $50 to unlock? Or quick charge being an extra $75?
Or not including a charger, or doing away with useful features like removable batteries or 1/8" Jack’s so you have to buy new earbuds… shit
Elon is pulling this shit because it will probably work
Also… what happens if the heater breaks? Are you still charged for fixing it or is that included in the subscription?
Right? If the hardware is in the vehicle, there’s no additional cost for them to enable it on all vehicles. If they want to have a way to offer vehicles for cheaper to increase sales, they’re not saving any money by doing it the way they are. They’re just saving on not having to make multiple models. But if that’s the case, just give everyone the damn heated steering wheel if it’s installed in the car.
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but being able to decide after the fact that you want a heated steering wheel isn’t one of them.
The fuck it isn’t. If the entire feature is in the car, why shouldn’t I have access to it? Because Tesla wants to be greedy as hell?
Because BMW moment
It’s unbelievable either way, my near base model Elantra has both heated seats and heated steering wheel. And a 60k electric car doesn’t?
good. software locks are anti human and anti consumer. everyone inherently feels ripped off by them, but the more capitalist minded think ‘oh that’s the company’s right to do’
if it’s my property in my house I can fuck with it to do whatever I want
Unfortunately because most of this is locked behind DRM you may be subject to crimes best described by someone else as “felony contempt of business model”.
How dare people find ways around our artificial scarcity. /s
So you think you should be able to pay for a base model and get all the features of the top of the line model? Try that at a Toyota dealership and let me know how that goes.
Flipping a bit in software doesn’t cost Tesla anything, the hardware is already installed.
It would be totally different if Tesla didn’t install the hardware by default, and you had to pay to have it put in.
It doesn’t cost VW anything either, they still want 1500€ to enable the fog lights to turn on when taking a turn (not sure how what feature is called).
If they put the premium shit in the car and software locked it out, fuck them. It’s part of the car I paid for, I’ll do whatever the fuck I want with it. Don’t like it? Don’t put the premium shit in a base model.
I love that you think Tesla isn’t pricing the premium features into the base model.
At Toyota, you pay for the premium shit to get installed, you most certainly do not pay a fee (recurring or otherwise) for them to turn it on.
I’m actually really glad that Toyota hasn’t locked their active safety features (Adaptive Cruise Control, Lane Departure Assist, Frontal Collision Braking) behind vehicle trim paywalls. That stuff is standard on all their vehicles now.
Unlike others cough Dodge cough where is still a premium upcharge for driver assistance technology that can potentially save your life on the road. I get charging more for heated seats and whatnot, but it’s unethical in this instance because the car is certainly able to (on a hardware level) turn on its active safety features without doing a complete retrofit.
Absolutely. Turning those features off is a safety risk and should probably be illegal. Imagine the world of cringe where you tried to pull on your seatbelt but it was locked because you didn’t pay for your seatbelt subscription.
The future sucks.
Hardware companies trying to copy the software companies with a subscription model really sucks. What’s next? Intel charging a monthly fee to unlock 5 GHz boost? Nvidia charging a monthly fee if you want to do anything AI-related with their GPUs? Samsung and LG charging a monthly fee if you want to use a TV or a monitor for more than 2 hours a day? Greed knows no bounds.
Funnily enough, Intel tried something similar already in 2010 (way before their pay-as-you-go bullshit). It was a Pentium that you could unlock hyper-threading on for $50.
Thankfully they sold terribly, but one has to wonder how long until they try it again
Don’t they have that on server cpus now?
That model is here already for cloud computing, literally dollars for CPU cores and bandwidth and memory. But that only works out well for renting other people’s servers and would be bad for any product that you purchase outright. I suggest we all not buy those products if they do that.
Pretty sure intel do something like that with their server CPUs.
Yep: Intel on Demand
I hope no execs are reading this thread because if they had these ideas they’d have no qualms about implementing them
Don’t give them ideas!
Is that not what the K versions of their processors are? Pay more for the ability to overclock and get good speeds
Amd did that back in the day. All the chips were the same but locked out. You could scrape and use a pencil to draw in a jumper and make your chip the flagship one.
Technological serfdom. You don’t own anything anymore. You can perpetually rent from your lord or you can suffer the consequences.
The “you wouldnt pirate a car” crowd will be shook when they finally realize " yes we would"
I used to think " I wouldn’t because that’s a stupid metaphor" but now that it’s not a stupid metaphor oh yes the fuck I would.
Can somebody build & sell a dumb electric car? Or at least one not permanently internet-enabled and/or that has no functionality and capabilities locked behind software and subscriptions?
Ive been genuinely thinking about getting into business selling dumb stuff exclusively. Dumb tvs, fridges, washers, phones, printers watever. Just a safe online vendor where you know that what you buy wont connect to the internet, need a subscription, or require a credit card on file to work. I just need a business name.
That’s a neat idea, and definitely a product group that I’ve been actively looking for. But I do find it ironic that your business model is of an online vendor that sells offline versions of online appliances haha
Was on the market for a TV for my grandparents recently. I just need a monitor, digital receiver, and remote - in one neat package. How hard can it be?
Very, apparently. Can’t even find cheap Chinese crap that isn’t “smart” these days.
Dumbly: Uncomplicated Technology for a Complicated World
The Dacia Spring fits the bill out of necessity (price). It is not fast, it has low range, uses cheap materials and it is rather small.
But I don’t think it can spy on you and it’s charming through its simple honesty.
I’d download it alright
You wouldn’t download a car.
Did I stutter?
Assuming you are in the part of the world where they are being sold
I’d download it alright
of course it was the PSP. I’ll say it again and again; secure computing is like adding a back door that you know about. Fuck intel me, fuck amd psp, fuck apple sep, fuck microsoft tpm, and fuck anyone who wants to have control over a device I own.
Google: time to add DRM to chrome
Google has betrayed Google.
As all corporations eventually do.
Google is eating its children.
That’s a story of TITANic proportions
This is the best summary I could come up with:
A group of researchers said they have found a way to hack the hardware underpinning Tesla’s infotainment system, allowing them to get what normally would be paid upgrades — such as heated rear seats — for free.
This may also give owners the ability to enable the self-driving and navigation system in regions where it’s normally not available, the researchers told TechCrunch, though they admitted that they haven’t tested these capabilities yet, as that would require more reverse engineering.
“We are not the evil outsider, but we’re actually the insider, we own the car,” Werling told TechCrunch in an interview ahead of the conference.
Werling explained that what they did was “fiddle around” with the supply voltage of the AMD processor that runs the infotainment system.
With the same technique, the researchers said they were also able to extract the encryption key used to authenticate the car to Tesla’s network.
I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Good bot
Heated rear seats I can get behind
Why would you want to be behind the heated seats? Seems like it’d be warmer on the seat, not to mention that there’s no 3rd row in a Tesla so you’d be in the trunk…
Oh, you!
Well it was a pun.
Get behind
Researchers jailbreak Tesla to allow usage of the entire car they purchased. FTFY
This looks to have already been discovered years ago as this company sells an OBD2 plug that can toggle all of this stuff, as well as highjacking some controls to add new functionality, as well as adding 50HP to those cars with a specific rear motor version https://ingenext.ca/products/ghost-upgrade
Is this method software only? Because the upgrades on that site are pretty expensive and proprietary.
as well as adding 50HP
Holy shit, IRL health buffs to mounts
Takes pay-to-win to the next level
If you read the article it is different. This relies on physically bringing connections to gain root access to the file system.
It’s also unlikely Tesla can’t just watch for modified files and update them everytime the car goes into drive or something. They probably won’t do it, but to claim it’s impossible is just disingenuous
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If I hear I can solder a modchip to a Tesla to get free features, bypass paid subscription stuff, I totally would.
I guess? But I also would never, ever, buy a Tesla.
Teslas have x64 CPU’s? What the hell?
It does have the letter x in it…
/s
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Please don’t call him the r word, that’s an insult to the mentally challenged
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This is great. When you buy the car, you own it. I don’t care what kind of weird licenses and contracts they put together. If I buy the car and there is hardware in the car that allows for heated seats, there is no reason why I shouldn’t be able to enable it myself, tear it out, or do whatever I want with it. It is mine.
I can understand there being safety concerns for modifying a car. But the owner of the car already accepts liability for the operation of that car. If I do not modify the car and I get into an accident due to Teslas auto pilot feature or another thing baked into their system, does Tesla accept liability? No, they do not. If it is my responsibility for the safe operation of the vehicle, then it is also my responsibility to modify a vehicle in a safe manner. 
“Researchers remove limits that shouldn’t be there on features that are already part of the car”
