There isn’t “meat industry” farming or “vegan industry” farming. The primary dichotomies in farming are industrial vs small scale, organic vs conventional, and local vs global. If you don’t like monocultural industrial farming, then support the other types of farmers.
I do support non-monoculture farming.
Problem is as a consumer there isn’t an easy way to know how it was farmed.
Imo sustainable farming should be legislated by government.
It is by way of nationally recognized organic standards. Otherwise governments tend to be in bed with agrochemical and agribusiness companies.
Relevant section of Canadian organic standards:
5.4.2 Where appropriate, the soil fertility and biological activity shall be maintained or increased, through:
a) crop rotations that are as varied as possible and include plough-down crops, legumes, catch crops and
deep-rooting plants;
b) incorporation of plant and animal matter in compliance with this standard and with Table 4.2 (Column 1) of
CAN/CGSB-32.311, including the following:
composted animal and plant matter;
non-composted plant matter, specifically legumes, plough-down crops or deep-rooting plants within the
framework of an appropriate multiyear rotation plan; and
unprocessed animal manure, including liquid manure and slurry, subject to the requirements of 5.5.1
It’s good countries are moving towards this, because goddamn the worst actors do not change unless forced to.
Lately animal manure has been started being used more compared to synthetics, mostly because the materials needed for synthetics were running out, and it was yet again found animal manure actually has all the needed materials healthy soil needs and more.
I’ve always heard that “organic” farming is really not especially different from conventional farming, including from some folks in agriculture. Like, they still use chemical pesticides and stuff, just different ones that are less effective and so sprayed more heavily.
I don’t have anything to back that up with though, so there’s a reasonable chance you have better info here. I’d be interested to know more if you’ve got standards and such you can share?
Lived at a farm that got some organic farming approvals; it depends on the country. And perhaps even your region. In my country, you can get certain approvals/certifications for organic farming, and the regulations for that is very strict. Things like “chemical” (synthetic) pesticides are forbidden outright, so are strong fertilizers etc. This has government oversight, so, there are randomized sampling and testing done on approved entities (farms, companies).
Sadly this often leads to higher costs and more land use. Like it or not, a lot of the things forbidden do lead to much higher yields etc. The end result is higher prices; organic (certified) products are quite expensive here.
Organic is very much the same as about sustainability. The degree to which a particular enterprise succeeds in living up to organic principles and to internationally recognized organic standards is a different question.
Organic standards are available to be read. Here is the Canadian standards. You’ll notice that sustainability is very much the organizing principle.
Organic standards are not the be-all and end-all of sustainability, that is true.
Do we use chemical pesticides and stuff. We can, yes. But what do you mean by chemical? Everything is a chemical. Water is a chemical. What we don’t use is synthetic pesticides or fertilizers. Which is actually a big difference from “conventional” agriculture for a variety of reasons.
Firstly, synthetic nitrogen is a major source of CO2 emissions. . Runoff from the over-application of fertilizers is also causing tremendous damage to aquatic environments. . Instead of relying on continuous application of synthetic nutrients, the organic practice is to build organic matter in soil (hence the term “organic”), which improves water holding capacity, reduces leaching, and reduces compaction. Instead we use compost and minerals like rock phosphate. When a more significant dose of nitrogen is needed we use stuff like feather meal or bone meal. These materials have a much reduced risk of leaching because the nutrients only become available in the soil as they are processed by the soil microbiome and are therefore released more slowly over a prolonged period of time.
Next, we don’t use herbicides. That means we don’t have bare exposed soil, which causes erosion, compaction, and top-soil loss (ie those things what caused the dust bowl). Instead we use cover crops, mulching, and mowing. Which builds up the organic matter in soil, promotes biodiversity, prevents erosion and compaction, and builds top-soil. Conversely, take a look at the rates of glyphosate application in contemporary “conventional” production and look at the articles that come up when you search for glyphosate.
Pesticides. Yes, we use pesticides. A pesticide is anything that is applied to remove pests. The difference is in the type and the effect. We do not use systemic pesticides (pesticides which are absorbed by a plant and render it toxic to pests over a prolonged period). We do not use pesticides that persist in the environment. We use things like sulfur and copper. We use things like bacteria and viruses. We use things like oils. We use things that target specific problem species at specific periods in their lifecycle. For instance, in my industry, we need to control for a creature called a coddling moth. When coddling moth levels get out of control, we spray a coddling moth virus. This virus kills coddling moth when applied at the proper time in their life cycle. It does not affect other species, and it does not persist in the environment. The conventional approach would be to spray a broad-spectrum insecticide that kills everything in the orchard. It’s very easy to see the difference for yourself. Simply visit a conventional farm in the summer, then go visit an organic farm. You’ll see the difference.
Finally, at least in my country, organic standards are the only legitimate regulated standards that protect animal welfare. Free range, cage free, whatever, that stuff doesn’t mean anything if there aren’t national or internationally recognized certifiable standards. We have that in organic. Organic livestock are not fed antibiotics and growth hormones, and there is enforcement of humane standards of care. For example, from the Canadian Organic standards:
6.1.3 Livestock production is a land-related activity.
a) Herbivores shall have access to pasture during the grazing season and access to the open air at other times
whenever weather conditions permit:
calculated on the basis of dry matter intake, the consumption of grazed forage by ruminants that have
reached sexual maturity shall represent a minimum of 30% of the total forage intake;
consumption of grazed forage shall rise above 30% during high forage growth periods;
a minimum of 0.13 ha (0.33 ac.) per animal unit shall be devoted to grazing. [One animal unit = one cow or
one bull, or two calves each 102 to 227 kg (225 to 500 lb), or five calves, each less than 102 kg (225 lb),
or four ewes and their lambs, or six does and their kids];
But we live in a capitalist, industrial society. So yes, not all organic farms are equal. Not everyone is actually committed to the principles of the organic movement. Corporate agribusiness obviously is interested in exploiting the organic sector. That doesn’t mean that “organic” is meaningless or that it’s all a scam. Just like Fair Trade, it’s an important signifier but that doesn’t mean it’s immune from abuse or exploitation.
And it’s important that as consumers you consider the type of farms you are supporting when buying food. Support local, small scale, organic producers as much as you can. If you can’t get organic, then at least try to get local, small-scale producers. If you can’t do that, then get local organic. If you can’t do that, get supermarket organic. The most important thing is to have, as much as you can, an understanding of where your food is coming from and the methods by which it is being produced.
There isn’t “meat industry” farming or “vegan industry” farming. The primary dichotomies in farming are industrial vs small scale, organic vs conventional, and local vs global. If you don’t like monocultural industrial farming, then support the other types of farmers.
I do support non-monoculture farming. Problem is as a consumer there isn’t an easy way to know how it was farmed. Imo sustainable farming should be legislated by government.
It is by way of nationally recognized organic standards. Otherwise governments tend to be in bed with agrochemical and agribusiness companies.
Relevant section of Canadian organic standards:
It’s good countries are moving towards this, because goddamn the worst actors do not change unless forced to.
Lately animal manure has been started being used more compared to synthetics, mostly because the materials needed for synthetics were running out, and it was yet again found animal manure actually has all the needed materials healthy soil needs and more.
I’ve always heard that “organic” farming is really not especially different from conventional farming, including from some folks in agriculture. Like, they still use chemical pesticides and stuff, just different ones that are less effective and so sprayed more heavily.
I don’t have anything to back that up with though, so there’s a reasonable chance you have better info here. I’d be interested to know more if you’ve got standards and such you can share?
Lived at a farm that got some organic farming approvals; it depends on the country. And perhaps even your region. In my country, you can get certain approvals/certifications for organic farming, and the regulations for that is very strict. Things like “chemical” (synthetic) pesticides are forbidden outright, so are strong fertilizers etc. This has government oversight, so, there are randomized sampling and testing done on approved entities (farms, companies).
Sadly this often leads to higher costs and more land use. Like it or not, a lot of the things forbidden do lead to much higher yields etc. The end result is higher prices; organic (certified) products are quite expensive here.
Totally, organic is not the same as sustainable.
Organic is very much
the same asabout sustainability. The degree to which a particular enterprise succeeds in living up to organic principles and to internationally recognized organic standards is a different question.Organic standards are available to be read. Here is the Canadian standards. You’ll notice that sustainability is very much the organizing principle.
Organic standards are not the be-all and end-all of sustainability, that is true.
Plus, natural pesticides aren’t necessarily better for things.
Were those folks in agriculture organic farmers?
Do we use chemical pesticides and stuff. We can, yes. But what do you mean by chemical? Everything is a chemical. Water is a chemical. What we don’t use is synthetic pesticides or fertilizers. Which is actually a big difference from “conventional” agriculture for a variety of reasons.
Firstly, synthetic nitrogen is a major source of CO2 emissions. . Runoff from the over-application of fertilizers is also causing tremendous damage to aquatic environments. . Instead of relying on continuous application of synthetic nutrients, the organic practice is to build organic matter in soil (hence the term “organic”), which improves water holding capacity, reduces leaching, and reduces compaction. Instead we use compost and minerals like rock phosphate. When a more significant dose of nitrogen is needed we use stuff like feather meal or bone meal. These materials have a much reduced risk of leaching because the nutrients only become available in the soil as they are processed by the soil microbiome and are therefore released more slowly over a prolonged period of time.
Next, we don’t use herbicides. That means we don’t have bare exposed soil, which causes erosion, compaction, and top-soil loss (ie those things what caused the dust bowl). Instead we use cover crops, mulching, and mowing. Which builds up the organic matter in soil, promotes biodiversity, prevents erosion and compaction, and builds top-soil. Conversely, take a look at the rates of glyphosate application in contemporary “conventional” production and look at the articles that come up when you search for glyphosate.
Pesticides. Yes, we use pesticides. A pesticide is anything that is applied to remove pests. The difference is in the type and the effect. We do not use systemic pesticides (pesticides which are absorbed by a plant and render it toxic to pests over a prolonged period). We do not use pesticides that persist in the environment. We use things like sulfur and copper. We use things like bacteria and viruses. We use things like oils. We use things that target specific problem species at specific periods in their lifecycle. For instance, in my industry, we need to control for a creature called a coddling moth. When coddling moth levels get out of control, we spray a coddling moth virus. This virus kills coddling moth when applied at the proper time in their life cycle. It does not affect other species, and it does not persist in the environment. The conventional approach would be to spray a broad-spectrum insecticide that kills everything in the orchard. It’s very easy to see the difference for yourself. Simply visit a conventional farm in the summer, then go visit an organic farm. You’ll see the difference.
Finally, at least in my country, organic standards are the only legitimate regulated standards that protect animal welfare. Free range, cage free, whatever, that stuff doesn’t mean anything if there aren’t national or internationally recognized certifiable standards. We have that in organic. Organic livestock are not fed antibiotics and growth hormones, and there is enforcement of humane standards of care. For example, from the Canadian Organic standards:
But we live in a capitalist, industrial society. So yes, not all organic farms are equal. Not everyone is actually committed to the principles of the organic movement. Corporate agribusiness obviously is interested in exploiting the organic sector. That doesn’t mean that “organic” is meaningless or that it’s all a scam. Just like Fair Trade, it’s an important signifier but that doesn’t mean it’s immune from abuse or exploitation.
It’s very important that the national standards oversight bodies are protected from interference from agrochemical companies and industrial farming interests who want to see standards relaxed so they can exploit the organic label for commercial gain. You can look at the beginning of this document to see who sits on the organic standards committee in Canada.
And it’s important that as consumers you consider the type of farms you are supporting when buying food. Support local, small scale, organic producers as much as you can. If you can’t get organic, then at least try to get local, small-scale producers. If you can’t do that, then get local organic. If you can’t do that, get supermarket organic. The most important thing is to have, as much as you can, an understanding of where your food is coming from and the methods by which it is being produced.