This reminds me of the Heard v Depp case, on the two X chromosomes subreddit there was this long ass comment from someone who experienced abuse and said she wasn’t the “perfect victim” because she fought back and hurt her abuser back and how because of this it was harder to get away from her abuser.
And when I asked how does she know that in Heard v Depp case it isn’t Depp who is the imperfect victim? Because he had multiple partners testifying to his character of being a kind man etc, while Heard had the opposite (AFAIK).
The mens rights sub originally was a good place for dudes who were getting taken to the cleaners in divorce court, losing full custody of the kids just because the mom wanted em, and even an instance iirc of the wife taking the dog only to have em put down later.
Then it slowly mutated into a watered down version of incels
I mean that’s bound to happen. If the main thing that draws you to a space is that you’re all being abused by women in one way or another, then it’s probably going to end up being a place to hate on women and therefore attract women haters like incels.
Men’s lib should be a space where we fight the injustices imposed on men by the dominant hierarchy. Like the fact that we’re assumed to be worse at caring for our kids than their mothers and that this assumption disadvantages us in court. Or the fact we’re assumed to be abusers and that being a victim somehow makes us be seen as lesser men and automatically deserving of the abuse we get (like in this comic). Or the fact that we’re assumed to BE/BE PART OF the dominant hierarchy and therefore can’t be victims of it, even though we can lose our “manlyness” through something as simple or human as crying when we’re sad.
Only with this mindset can we channel our victimisation into positive action rather than towards hatred of women.
I once got a -28xx on Reddit for a comment I still don’t think was even interesting. From what I understand, of their scoring algorithm at the time, that means I had a lot more downvotes than that.
The reason is that most men are physically stronger than most women and also we live in a heteropatriarchy that caters to men first. There was clearly mutual abuse by both partners, and both Amber and Johnny are raging narcissists- but Johnny has a bad past too, including a questionable relationship with Winona Ryder when she was young and extreme drug use that made him erratic. It’s impossible to know who was abusing who or what was actually happening.
But I will say the leading expert on domestic violence, Lundy Bancroft, asserts that women are almost never the abuse initiator in relationships. Most serial killers, most violent offenders, are men. So yeah, women will typically blame the man because it’s usually men.
I don’t usually comment in these types of gender discussions, so I don’t really know why I am commenting this. I hope you don’t take me badly.
You say that we live in a society that caters to men first, which I unfortunately agree in general, adding later that, due to the usual prepertrators of the hideous crimes you listed being men (which I also agree), women usually jump to the conclusion that the man is the abuser. Knowing that, couldn’t it be said that in this specific situation society caters to women rather than men? After all, you can’t say “most abusers are men, therefore this abuser is a man.” Each person is an individual. From a purely mathematical perspective, it indeed makes sense to suspect the man first, but that being the case, wouldn’t bringing up that first point be:
a. True, but in matters unrelated to the discussion?
b. Contradicting what you say in the end?
And therein lies my question to you. I am not that informed in these gender-related affairs and I am sorry if anything I said was wrong/insensitive, but I still ask this question, for no reason other than probably being sleepy. Thank you, and I apologize if I misunderstood anything. I did not watch the show that was mentioned, I really just wanted to ask about that specific part.
No, society still caters to men. Who are the ones responding to domestic violence calls - other men, the police, who also engage in these same crimes.
I had an ex throw me to the ground and lock me outside in the rainin my pajamas. When I called 911, the police came, and I was crying and bleeding under my pajamas from the fall. The officer immediately threatened to arrest me, saying women fake it all the time, and if he found any marks on him or if his story was different, I would go to jail. I was 19. I hadn’t touched him, he had just exploded in a rage because we broke up and couldn’t agree about moving out. It didn’t even occur to me that I wouldn’t get help and also might be hurt. I declined having him arrested while I actively bled from what he did, I didn’t show the police the marks, and then i became $2k in debt because I wanted to do anything to break the lease (and could’ve done if for free had he been arrested).
Society doesn’t help abuse victims of any gender. The people who enforce the laws are abusers. Lawyers are often abusers. Judges are typically men who make up abusers. Look at the judges Trump put in place and imagine women trying to justify their abortion from their rapes to them. Like yes the patriarchy is systemic AGAINST WOMEN in this way. Intersectionality exists, and does not erase this real fact
Thank you for your answer. I see your point. I was thinking more about the specific situation described in the comic, and not one where it had already escalated to the point where police and the justice system got involved, and I have to wonder what kind of life the cop lived through to reach the conclusion that “women fake it all the time.” But even worse than there being cops like this is the fact that even if it came to light that they were like this there is a high chance they would not be punished at all.
Case in question, in my country, a cop fatally shot a guy because he “looked like he had a knife.” That’s already disgusting enough, but as far as I know, he wasn’t going to be punished until big protest erupted. It’s a sistematic issue, and unfortunately, there’s not much we can do aside from voting.
With trump being elected, this issue is sure to become even worse. And since trump seems to be specifically against women’s freedom, it will probably get even harder for women to defend themselves and bring the perpetrator to justice.
But I sincerely hope that a situation like that doesn’t happen again, to you or anyone you know. Good luck in the future, and stay safe.
As a sidenote, and don’t answer if you don’t want to, why did you decline his arrest? Was there any chance that could turn against you?
I declined his arrest because he was very poor and I thought the prison system would ruin his life. I felt bad for him. Because the patriarchy demands empathy for men at all times, I guess.
This reminds me of the Heard v Depp case, on the two X chromosomes subreddit there was this long ass comment from someone who experienced abuse and said she wasn’t the “perfect victim” because she fought back and hurt her abuser back and how because of this it was harder to get away from her abuser.
And when I asked how does she know that in Heard v Depp case it isn’t Depp who is the imperfect victim? Because he had multiple partners testifying to his character of being a kind man etc, while Heard had the opposite (AFAIK).
All I got was silence and downvotes.
And the men’s lib sub is the best we will get when it comes to men’s issues and that one sucks too.
The mens rights sub originally was a good place for dudes who were getting taken to the cleaners in divorce court, losing full custody of the kids just because the mom wanted em, and even an instance iirc of the wife taking the dog only to have em put down later.
Then it slowly mutated into a watered down version of incels
I mean that’s bound to happen. If the main thing that draws you to a space is that you’re all being abused by women in one way or another, then it’s probably going to end up being a place to hate on women and therefore attract women haters like incels.
Men’s lib should be a space where we fight the injustices imposed on men by the dominant hierarchy. Like the fact that we’re assumed to be worse at caring for our kids than their mothers and that this assumption disadvantages us in court. Or the fact we’re assumed to be abusers and that being a victim somehow makes us be seen as lesser men and automatically deserving of the abuse we get (like in this comic). Or the fact that we’re assumed to BE/BE PART OF the dominant hierarchy and therefore can’t be victims of it, even though we can lose our “manlyness” through something as simple or human as crying when we’re sad.
Only with this mindset can we channel our victimisation into positive action rather than towards hatred of women.
Hive minds are strong remember to not rate your opinion based on how many up votes it gets
what then am i supposed to rate it on? /hj
I once got a -28xx on Reddit for a comment I still don’t think was even interesting. From what I understand, of their scoring algorithm at the time, that means I had a lot more downvotes than that.
Have you heard of battered woman syndrome? Do you understand the court case that lead to it?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francine_Hughes
The reason is that most men are physically stronger than most women and also we live in a heteropatriarchy that caters to men first. There was clearly mutual abuse by both partners, and both Amber and Johnny are raging narcissists- but Johnny has a bad past too, including a questionable relationship with Winona Ryder when she was young and extreme drug use that made him erratic. It’s impossible to know who was abusing who or what was actually happening.
But I will say the leading expert on domestic violence, Lundy Bancroft, asserts that women are almost never the abuse initiator in relationships. Most serial killers, most violent offenders, are men. So yeah, women will typically blame the man because it’s usually men.
I don’t usually comment in these types of gender discussions, so I don’t really know why I am commenting this. I hope you don’t take me badly.
You say that we live in a society that caters to men first, which I unfortunately agree in general, adding later that, due to the usual prepertrators of the hideous crimes you listed being men (which I also agree), women usually jump to the conclusion that the man is the abuser. Knowing that, couldn’t it be said that in this specific situation society caters to women rather than men? After all, you can’t say “most abusers are men, therefore this abuser is a man.” Each person is an individual. From a purely mathematical perspective, it indeed makes sense to suspect the man first, but that being the case, wouldn’t bringing up that first point be:
a. True, but in matters unrelated to the discussion? b. Contradicting what you say in the end?
And therein lies my question to you. I am not that informed in these gender-related affairs and I am sorry if anything I said was wrong/insensitive, but I still ask this question, for no reason other than probably being sleepy. Thank you, and I apologize if I misunderstood anything. I did not watch the show that was mentioned, I really just wanted to ask about that specific part.
No, society still caters to men. Who are the ones responding to domestic violence calls - other men, the police, who also engage in these same crimes.
I had an ex throw me to the ground and lock me outside in the rainin my pajamas. When I called 911, the police came, and I was crying and bleeding under my pajamas from the fall. The officer immediately threatened to arrest me, saying women fake it all the time, and if he found any marks on him or if his story was different, I would go to jail. I was 19. I hadn’t touched him, he had just exploded in a rage because we broke up and couldn’t agree about moving out. It didn’t even occur to me that I wouldn’t get help and also might be hurt. I declined having him arrested while I actively bled from what he did, I didn’t show the police the marks, and then i became $2k in debt because I wanted to do anything to break the lease (and could’ve done if for free had he been arrested).
Society doesn’t help abuse victims of any gender. The people who enforce the laws are abusers. Lawyers are often abusers. Judges are typically men who make up abusers. Look at the judges Trump put in place and imagine women trying to justify their abortion from their rapes to them. Like yes the patriarchy is systemic AGAINST WOMEN in this way. Intersectionality exists, and does not erase this real fact
Thank you for your answer. I see your point. I was thinking more about the specific situation described in the comic, and not one where it had already escalated to the point where police and the justice system got involved, and I have to wonder what kind of life the cop lived through to reach the conclusion that “women fake it all the time.” But even worse than there being cops like this is the fact that even if it came to light that they were like this there is a high chance they would not be punished at all.
Case in question, in my country, a cop fatally shot a guy because he “looked like he had a knife.” That’s already disgusting enough, but as far as I know, he wasn’t going to be punished until big protest erupted. It’s a sistematic issue, and unfortunately, there’s not much we can do aside from voting.
With trump being elected, this issue is sure to become even worse. And since trump seems to be specifically against women’s freedom, it will probably get even harder for women to defend themselves and bring the perpetrator to justice.
But I sincerely hope that a situation like that doesn’t happen again, to you or anyone you know. Good luck in the future, and stay safe.
As a sidenote, and don’t answer if you don’t want to, why did you decline his arrest? Was there any chance that could turn against you?
I declined his arrest because he was very poor and I thought the prison system would ruin his life. I felt bad for him. Because the patriarchy demands empathy for men at all times, I guess.