How many people was Israel holding prisoner indefinitely and without charge or access to any representation? I’ll answer that for you, a bit over 12000.
How many of those killed on Oct 7 were killed by Israeli forces?
How many innocents have been raped or murdered in isralei custody?
How many dead journalists? Doctors? Aid workers? How many utilities workers (6 more mudered yesterday).
Say what you want, each and every one of those deaths is a war crime.
How many attacks on the UN and UN workers?
Israel has far far dirtier hands than anyone else so I dont think you get to self righteously open with, “How many of these people do you think would be dead if Hamas hadn’t kidnapped them?”.
Those are all valid points, most of which I can agree with. But that doesn’t mean that Hamas was helping us build a better world when they went on their killing and kidnapping spree. They wanted to restart the hostilities and that’s not some noble goal that should make us lie about what they did or act like they’re not responsible for the deaths of those they took.
agreed, but you put people in a murderous pressure cooker and keep turning up the heat and it’ll expode. Thats part of the burden of being in charge. It speaks to motive and I asribe a lot of the blame to Israel for what happened on Oct 7. You dont oppress people to that level for 80 years and then act surprised when they lose their minds over it.
Sure, but people that pull this argument almost always refuse to look at history from the Israeli side. I’m leaving out the pro-Arab arguments for this purpose but bear with me for what is always conveniently forgotten when lemmings say “they deserved it”:
The Gaza strip only came under Israeli control in '67, so in reality the 80 years you mention are 56 years.
From '67 to '91, people could travel freely between Gaza and Israel. After the violence of the First Intifada, this changed, and Israel started requiring personal permits to make sure people coming to Israel had legitimate business there.
The escalations in violence led to the Oslo accords. Groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad vowed to continue the violence until Israel was destroyed, and torpedoed the accords from their side with a series of deadly suicide bomb attacks on public buses in Israel. This led Israel to further tighten the border checkpoints.
Israel withdrew from within Gaza and following the 2007 takeover by Hamas, practically closed the border except for work and medical reasons.
The blockade mostly stopped ground attacks, but Hamas switched their MO to firing missiles. This led to Egypt and Israel progressively tightening their blockade to stop these weapons from being smuggled into Gaza. And Israel to work on a very expensive missile defense, and Israelis living within rocket distance to have to run to shelters almost daily.
And as the daily rocket attacks didn’t bring any improvement for Hamas, they planned for the oct 7 attacks.
As I said the above story is onesided, but when I ask someone what else Israel should have done to stop Hamas from wanting to destroy them, the answer always boils down to “don’t exist”.
How many people was Israel holding prisoner indefinitely and without charge or access to any representation? I’ll answer that for you, a bit over 12000.
How many of those killed on Oct 7 were killed by Israeli forces?
How many innocents have been raped or murdered in isralei custody?
How many dead journalists? Doctors? Aid workers? How many utilities workers (6 more mudered yesterday). Say what you want, each and every one of those deaths is a war crime.
How many attacks on the UN and UN workers?
Israel has far far dirtier hands than anyone else so I dont think you get to self righteously open with, “How many of these people do you think would be dead if Hamas hadn’t kidnapped them?”.
Ridiculous nonsense.
Those are all valid points, most of which I can agree with. But that doesn’t mean that Hamas was helping us build a better world when they went on their killing and kidnapping spree. They wanted to restart the hostilities and that’s not some noble goal that should make us lie about what they did or act like they’re not responsible for the deaths of those they took.
agreed, but you put people in a murderous pressure cooker and keep turning up the heat and it’ll expode. Thats part of the burden of being in charge. It speaks to motive and I asribe a lot of the blame to Israel for what happened on Oct 7. You dont oppress people to that level for 80 years and then act surprised when they lose their minds over it.
Sure, but people that pull this argument almost always refuse to look at history from the Israeli side. I’m leaving out the pro-Arab arguments for this purpose but bear with me for what is always conveniently forgotten when lemmings say “they deserved it”:
The Gaza strip only came under Israeli control in '67, so in reality the 80 years you mention are 56 years.
From '67 to '91, people could travel freely between Gaza and Israel. After the violence of the First Intifada, this changed, and Israel started requiring personal permits to make sure people coming to Israel had legitimate business there.
The escalations in violence led to the Oslo accords. Groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad vowed to continue the violence until Israel was destroyed, and torpedoed the accords from their side with a series of deadly suicide bomb attacks on public buses in Israel. This led Israel to further tighten the border checkpoints.
Israel withdrew from within Gaza and following the 2007 takeover by Hamas, practically closed the border except for work and medical reasons.
The blockade mostly stopped ground attacks, but Hamas switched their MO to firing missiles. This led to Egypt and Israel progressively tightening their blockade to stop these weapons from being smuggled into Gaza. And Israel to work on a very expensive missile defense, and Israelis living within rocket distance to have to run to shelters almost daily.
And as the daily rocket attacks didn’t bring any improvement for Hamas, they planned for the oct 7 attacks.
As I said the above story is onesided, but when I ask someone what else Israel should have done to stop Hamas from wanting to destroy them, the answer always boils down to “don’t exist”.