Isn’t this just the system working as intended? You gain benefit from the content of a website and the people who make the content get compensated via ad revenue. If you choose to not provide them with ad revenue, you don’t get the benefit of the content. It’s basically the same as walking into a store and choosing not to buy a product on the shelf. You’re not “getting yours” by not buying something, you’re getting nothing and paying nothing, zero benefit for zero cost.
The web, “as intended,” worked for several years with utterly no ad content. And when ads did start coming along, they were largely innocuous; little things in side bars, not obnoxious full-page videos that are rarely dismissible.
Anyone who tries to sell you on the idea that the web was designed for commerce or as a way to distribute anything other than information is a lying fucker.
Is your point that technology should never be used for anything other than what it was originally designed for? If that’s the case then please stop using TCP/IP for anything other than advancing US military weapons research.
My point was that the comment I was replying to implied that the web was created so that people could monetize content. That was not the reason why the web was created.
If I create a whingdoodle that provides people with free electricity, and you find a way to murder cities with it, then you can’t claim it’s “functioning as intended.” I didn’t intend for it to do that; you found a way to pervert it. Now, Billy found a way to prevent you from murdering him with your weaponized wingdoodle, and you argue that he shouldn’t, because the wingdoodle is “functioning as intended.” I’m calling bullshit on that. That was my point.
There’s http response code 402 (payment required) which comes before even 404 (page not found). Indicates to me that people were thinking about using the web for commerce even before they thought about people putting in a wrong URL.
Like I said, the best resource for this is Tim Berners-Lee, the man who literally invented the WWW.
Although, I was in college when he did it, and I have a pretty clear memory of those early years. Before JavaScript; before Java; before https. You know, https, the thing that enables secure data transfer like credit card information? Which was introduced 11 years after http was released and being used?
No. I can’t say what all Tim foresaw, but ecommerce and monetization of the web was not at the forefront of his intentions. Just look at what he’s written about it himself. Or, email him; he’s still alive.
When he said “the system”, he probably meant the system of ad funded services, not the system of the World Wide Web, the HTML markup language, the URL system, and HTTP as envisioned by Sir Timothy John Berners-Lee (born 8 June 1955),[1].
Oh. So advertising is working as it was designed? I won’t argue with that, except that I block all that so it doesn’t, really. I suppose it still affects people who neither care to block it, or don’t know how.
Advertising is a pox on capitalism, which has enough problems without the parasites.
I did in the past. But now my internet connection involves co-ax cable. So please send all replies in an analog video form, since that’s what that cable was designed for.
Don’t know if that’s true. People invested in it as a bubble - knowing that someday the companies running sites within them would be worth trillions. And they were right (though not about which ones would be worth that)
I remember seeing a lot of dinky banner ads back in the day.
I knew about ad blockers before I started using one. Small sidebar or header ads weren’t really enough to convince me I needed one.
Now the Internet has so many popups, ads, aggressive video players, requests to accept cookies, all because some people figured out how to make websites more profitable by making them worse. It’s sad, really. The Internet of old was great.
This is exactly why I choose to persevere with ad-blocking addons and make their website work the way I want it to without dumb bullshit getting in my way. :D
If you want people to use your website, make your website usable with unobtrusive ads or I’ll make it usable for me, and you won’t see a dime of ad revenue. Unfortunately, most sites seem to just double down (which doesn’t work because it just makes ad-blocking even more necessary and popular). Sucks for them.
Why do you assume that’s the end goal? Pretty sure their goal is to get paid. The website is a means to deliver content to people. If we’re talking about news sites, then I think they’d prefer people buy a newspaper. But since they have to have a website they need to figure out a way to make some money or they’re going to get laid off.
Sucks for them.
Well if we’re all having this attitude, then why should anyone care about your preferences for no ads? You’ve taken the low ground and anyone can now say “Sucks for you” if you don’t like seeing ads.
Why do you assume that’s the end goal? Pretty sure their goal is to get paid.
… and they get paid by…
people using their website. More specifically viewing ads while using their website. The kicker is (and I thought I explained this), the more obtrusive they make their ads, the more people use an ad blocker, and the less people will see their ads. I thought I covered that well enough, but apparently not for you.
But since they have to have a website they need to figure out a way to make some money or they’re going to get laid off.
If they can’t figure out how to make money without their website being obnoxious and nigh-unusable, then indeed perhaps it’s time they found a new line of work, methinks.
Well if we’re all having this attitude, then why should anyone care about your preferences for no ads?
Did I ever claim that anyone cared about my preferences? It’s pretty obvious from the fact I said “most sites seem to double down”, that I acknowledge most websites already don’t give a shit and would rather squeeze as much as possible from the few people not running ad blockers than make the web a better and more usable place for everyone. They very clearly do not care about that, which is very amusing to me, as it means ad-blocking software will continue to improve and outpace shit web developers, as it’s so popular and needed. Which sucks for them, that they’re shooting themselves in the foot.
I don’t know how people who block ads are so delusional to think that these websites would be sad to see them go, any more than shops would be sad to see shoplifters take their business elsewhere.
I get why some people might block ads but don’t kid yourselves, you’re blocking the only revenue stream for most sites and it doesn’t cost you anything. I’m not taking about tracking of course, sites that track you can get fucked.
and the people who make the content get compensated via ad revenue
We’re assuming that the only possible goal is money. The people who make the content can also get compensated by enjoying the propagation of their ideas, just as one example.
If they’re putting ads on their site then it’s clear they want to make money. You’re imposing your views onto other people when they’ve clearly indicated they don’t think they way you want them to.
![Goodbye [System32 Comics]](https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/e8d929a6-dccd-43fe-80ab-8a85b0769b86.jpeg){kind=link}
Isn’t this just the system working as intended? You gain benefit from the content of a website and the people who make the content get compensated via ad revenue. If you choose to not provide them with ad revenue, you don’t get the benefit of the content. It’s basically the same as walking into a store and choosing not to buy a product on the shelf. You’re not “getting yours” by not buying something, you’re getting nothing and paying nothing, zero benefit for zero cost.
The web, “as intended,” worked for several years with utterly no ad content. And when ads did start coming along, they were largely innocuous; little things in side bars, not obnoxious full-page videos that are rarely dismissible.
Anyone who tries to sell you on the idea that the web was designed for commerce or as a way to distribute anything other than information is a lying fucker.
Is your point that technology should never be used for anything other than what it was originally designed for? If that’s the case then please stop using TCP/IP for anything other than advancing US military weapons research.
My point was that the comment I was replying to implied that the web was created so that people could monetize content. That was not the reason why the web was created.
If I create a whingdoodle that provides people with free electricity, and you find a way to murder cities with it, then you can’t claim it’s “functioning as intended.” I didn’t intend for it to do that; you found a way to pervert it. Now, Billy found a way to prevent you from murdering him with your weaponized wingdoodle, and you argue that he shouldn’t, because the wingdoodle is “functioning as intended.” I’m calling bullshit on that. That was my point.
There’s http response code 402 (payment required) which comes before even 404 (page not found). Indicates to me that people were thinking about using the web for commerce even before they thought about people putting in a wrong URL.
Like I said, the best resource for this is Tim Berners-Lee, the man who literally invented the WWW.
Although, I was in college when he did it, and I have a pretty clear memory of those early years. Before JavaScript; before Java; before https. You know, https, the thing that enables secure data transfer like credit card information? Which was introduced 11 years after http was released and being used?
No. I can’t say what all Tim foresaw, but ecommerce and monetization of the web was not at the forefront of his intentions. Just look at what he’s written about it himself. Or, email him; he’s still alive.
When he said “the system”, he probably meant the system of ad funded services, not the system of the World Wide Web, the HTML markup language, the URL system, and HTTP as envisioned by Sir Timothy John Berners-Lee (born 8 June 1955),[1].
Oh. So advertising is working as it was designed? I won’t argue with that, except that I block all that so it doesn’t, really. I suppose it still affects people who neither care to block it, or don’t know how.
Advertising is a pox on capitalism, which has enough problems without the parasites.
And I hope you never used dial-up internet! That is NOT what phone lines are for.
I did in the past. But now my internet connection involves co-ax cable. So please send all replies in an analog video form, since that’s what that cable was designed for.
Don’t know if that’s true. People invested in it as a bubble - knowing that someday the companies running sites within them would be worth trillions. And they were right (though not about which ones would be worth that)
I remember seeing a lot of dinky banner ads back in the day.
But it is true. Luckily, Tim Berners Lee, the guy who invented the WWW, is still alive, and has posted his opinions about the state of the web.
His intention, the purpose for which he created the web, was not commerce and ads.
I knew about ad blockers before I started using one. Small sidebar or header ads weren’t really enough to convince me I needed one.
Now the Internet has so many popups, ads, aggressive video players, requests to accept cookies, all because some people figured out how to make websites more profitable by making them worse. It’s sad, really. The Internet of old was great.
This is exactly why I choose to persevere with ad-blocking addons and make their website work the way I want it to without dumb bullshit getting in my way. :D
If you want people to use your website, make your website usable with unobtrusive ads or I’ll make it usable for me, and you won’t see a dime of ad revenue. Unfortunately, most sites seem to just double down (which doesn’t work because it just makes ad-blocking even more necessary and popular). Sucks for them.
Why do you assume that’s the end goal? Pretty sure their goal is to get paid. The website is a means to deliver content to people. If we’re talking about news sites, then I think they’d prefer people buy a newspaper. But since they have to have a website they need to figure out a way to make some money or they’re going to get laid off.
Well if we’re all having this attitude, then why should anyone care about your preferences for no ads? You’ve taken the low ground and anyone can now say “Sucks for you” if you don’t like seeing ads.
… and they get paid by…
people using their website. More specifically viewing ads while using their website. The kicker is (and I thought I explained this), the more obtrusive they make their ads, the more people use an ad blocker, and the less people will see their ads. I thought I covered that well enough, but apparently not for you.
If they can’t figure out how to make money without their website being obnoxious and nigh-unusable, then indeed perhaps it’s time they found a new line of work, methinks.
Did I ever claim that anyone cared about my preferences? It’s pretty obvious from the fact I said “most sites seem to double down”, that I acknowledge most websites already don’t give a shit and would rather squeeze as much as possible from the few people not running ad blockers than make the web a better and more usable place for everyone. They very clearly do not care about that, which is very amusing to me, as it means ad-blocking software will continue to improve and outpace shit web developers, as it’s so popular and needed. Which sucks for them, that they’re shooting themselves in the foot.
Ya followin’ me, sport?
I don’t know how people who block ads are so delusional to think that these websites would be sad to see them go, any more than shops would be sad to see shoplifters take their business elsewhere.
I get why some people might block ads but don’t kid yourselves, you’re blocking the only revenue stream for most sites and it doesn’t cost you anything. I’m not taking about tracking of course, sites that track you can get fucked.
That’s essentially every single website that runs ads. The tracking is in the ads.
We’re assuming that the only possible goal is money. The people who make the content can also get compensated by enjoying the propagation of their ideas, just as one example.
If they’re putting ads on their site then it’s clear they want to make money. You’re imposing your views onto other people when they’ve clearly indicated they don’t think they way you want them to.