I’ve run across these terms several times, but without enough context to figure out what they mean. Could someone help me out, please?
ETA All of you are amazing! A huge thank you to everyone who responded, and an extra thank you to those who have provided links or explanations to further and/or related information. I am learning so much by reading all of these comments!
“Tankies” is slang for communists who align with the philosophy of authoritarian rule, like the Soviet Union who used violence to keep countries under their control in check.
Sealioning is something I saw a lot on Reddit, but not so much here - it is when someone responds continuously asking questions, trying to seem like they are engaged, but in reality they are trolling you. Like when you say something like “The sky is so blue today” and the come back with “That is interesting, do you have a link to some information that I can learn more about that?”
Oh my god I get sealioned in real life. Now I can call people out on it with a title.
That’s interesting, do you have a link where I could read more about that?
Unfortunately not. Know where it might be able to get one?
A, not op but ok
B, are y’all misreplying to the wrong comment or are y’all bots because both of these comments don’t make sense in this context.
Edit: fuck, I’m stupid
Dealing with sealioning can be utterly exhausting (which is the point, whether they fully realize that or not) especially when done by someone with experience.
A related fallacy is the Gish gallop, in which an endless stream of bogus arguments are spewed out faster than any of them can be refuted. Even if it’s really easy to refute each one individually, the constant stream is overwhelming and then eventually the user can go “aha, you couldn’t refute X!”
Asking for proof isn’t necessarily trolling. Someone making wild claims should have to source their knowledge
This is correct; sealioning is characterised by asking questions in bad faith. If you ask a question, get an answer, and reply with the same question as though you did not get an answer, that is sealioning.
Personally, I always assume questions are asked in good faith and answer accordingly; it’s only when I get the same question in reply, or one that addresses precisely nothing I said, or one that egregiously twists my argument and/or words, that I view it as a troll and disengage.
They’re not really communists tho, because (like you said) they defend the use of violence by a ruling class
A ruling class just wouldn’t exist under actual communism. Which is the main reason communism won’t work for any group more than like ~200 people in size.
They’re fans of fake communism like the Soviet Union or China
I’d agree with you, but Marx literally calls for a temporary dictatorship of the proletariat in the communist manifesto
Yeah and as smart as anyone is, they aren’t right all the time. As much as you can agree with his messaging, it’s important to critically assess everything said, regardless of who is saying it.
Marx had many good ideas, but he wasn’t perfect. Leftist theory also didn’t stop when he died.
Dictatorship at the time didn’t mean necessarily authoritarian, it just meant government. Someone always dictates however they may be elected. He felt the people dictating should be the working class.
Dictatorship of the proletariat must be permanent, read it again. Also look up what Dictatorship of the proletariat means before spreading FUD.
Yeah the dictatorship of the proletariat shouldn’t be thought of as like the dictatorship of Saddam Hussein but rather as forceful removal of hierarchy from society. “We will learn to live as equals no matter how difficult it is and those who refuse to join in the work will be punished.” If you’re just getting rid of the people who held power before the revolution and not fighting the desire for power you’re just gonna wind up with a red czar.
Agree totally. Communism is one of those things that cannot work in the real world. Someone above said it well - you go so far left that you end devolving into fascism and that is apparent with what is going on in Russia right now. Money begets power begets more money and on and on…
Out of curiosity what makes you think 2023 Russia is left wing? They weren’t even the last of the countries to leave the USSR. They privatized Soviet holdings in the 90s. Putin is former KGB sure, but he’s been very pro capital his entire reign.
Oh, I don’t think they are leftist at all. My point was that Russia dominated the Soviet Union (do you agree with that?) and the fall of communism has resulted in what we see now, and it is not pretty, with business, money and politics very much intertwined.
we used to call them Maoists.
but Trotskyists I met later on, though less dangerous, were always more fanatical, nostalgically passionate 🤮
i’d figure tankies by strictest definition to be garden variety MLs, though yeah this typically includes support for mao.
my experience of trots has been old trade union guys trying to hawk papers/do book clubs linking everything somehow to permanent revolution, with a side of turning up to pickets. idk if i’d call them fanatical, they tend to spend too much time bickering about organisation amongst themselves. definitely agree with the weirdly nostalgic part though