CBS News on Monday rebuked one of its star morning anchors, Tony Dokoupil, over an interview that he conducted last week with the author Ta-Nehisi Coates, in which Mr. Dokoupil challenged Mr. Coates’s views about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
The episode began last Monday when Mr. Coates visited “CBS Mornings” on a publicity tour for his book “The Message,” which in one section compares Israel’s treatment of Palestinians to the Jim Crow laws of the American South. In describing what he witnessed on a 10-day trip to the region last year, Mr. Coates criticized other journalists for “the elevation of factual complexity over self-evident morality.”
From the start of the interview, Mr. Dokoupil directly challenged this framing, telling Mr. Coates that “the content of that section would not be out of place in the backpack of an extremist.” The anchor added, “What is it that so particularly offends you about the existence of a Jewish state that is a Jewish safe place?”
“There’s nothing that offends me about a Jewish state; I am offended by the idea of states built on ethnocracy, no matter where they are,” Mr. Coates replied. The men parried for several minutes in a tense but civil manner, with Mr. Coates at one point saying: “Either apartheid is right or wrong. It’s really, really simple.”
Your suggestion is that someone that “understood Israel” would find the Israel’s actions acceptable. That sounds like a rationalization. I think you’re doing a good job of supporting Coates’s argument. That being “Apartheid is wrong or it isn’t. Its that simple.”
I watched the interview weeks ago now and can’t remember the specific words used, but the general idea was that Dokoupil was accusing Coates of using language and argument Coates never used, then Dokoupil was attacking that strawman.
Dokoupil started his attack on Coates right out of the gate. Dokoupil left no room for thoughtful arguments with his strawman accusations.
He witnessed Israeli apartheid firsthand and was sharing that experience, and its parallels to other apartheid regimes. Dokoupil didn’t seem interested in hearing from Coates and instead Dokoupil looked like he had built his arguments to dismiss Coates long before the interview began. Dokoupil came off looking like he was pushing his own narrative instead of investigating what Coates had reported.
Even if Dokoupil is a straight up zionist with zero interest in entertaining any other ideas, he did his cause a disservice because Coates came off looking more measured and with rational arguments. Dokoupil came off looking a bit unhinged. Dokoupil made me look into Coates more and find logic I hadn’t considered in the Israeli situation. If was attempting Dokoupil to get the audience to dismiss Coates, he achieved the exact opposite.
That’s not what I said. I criticized them for expressing a perspective about Israel’s motives that are simply wrong. And this is a common attitude about Israel I hear all the time: “The Holocaust doesn’t give Israelis the right to treat Palestinians this way.” That’s simply not how Israelis think.
I’ll admit I haven’t read the book myself because I’m not going to give Coates my money, but I have now heard three different interviews about it. One of those interviews was about an hour long on the Ezra Klein podcast. So my impression is based on listening to him discuss Israel in these three different contexts.
Wrong. He witnessed things that he *interpreted *as apartheid based on his own frame of reference and preconceived notions about Israel. The point is, he doesn’t have the knowledge of the history and the details - he literally describes seeing things and thinking, “That reminds me of apartheid.” For example, he describes having an IDF soldier approach him and ask him questions about his background and how that just feels wrong. Well, those soldiers are trained to do what they do for security purposes because the country has dealt with terrorism for decades.
I totally disagree that Dokoupil came across as “unhinged.” No doubt he was trying very hard to suppress his emotions about the book, but he did not get angry or aggressive or anything. I will give Coates credit, however. He does present himself very well. He comes across as very calm and thoughtful.