For those who don’t know what I mean:
- LMDE = Linux Mint Debian Edition, https://www.linuxmint.com/download_lmde.php
- xfce and cinnamon = desktop environments (DE)
target hardware for LMDE is an 8 year old nuked mac notebook with an intel chip.
I’ve always used xfce because it’s easy on the hardware and I don’t care that much about looks, but functionality.
I’ve never used cinnamon and I don’t know if it’s going to slow the notebook much.
Neither do I know if I can install LMDE and then change the DE to xfce.
Is LMDE being updated like the other mints? LMDE is version 6, whereas the other DE are version 21.3
LMDE does not provide a XFCE version, you can however install XFCE after installing LMDE. Cinnamon required in my experience twice as much recourses as XFCE. LMDE is based on Debian while regular Mint is based on Ubuntu. The releases are linked to those of the bases, but LMDE gets the Mint specific updates slightly later. The numbers are different because Ubuntu’s latest version is 24.4 while Debian is at version 12, so it wouldn’t make sense to have the same numbering for the corresponding Linux mint version.
makes sense, but I don’t understand why LMDE is marked as 6 when the newest stable debian is 12.5 (same applies to linux mint and ubuntu, now at 24.4) shouldn’t it be LMDE 12 or 12.5?
My bad, I realized my comment reads a lot differently than what I was trying to say. Linux mints release schedule is not bound to Ubuntu. Linux mint gets a new major version every two years (although this is not strictly set) while LMDE usually gets a new major update with the new Debian version, but because Debian has been around for a lot longer than LMDE the number is higher.
Debian has XFCE so yes.
But the “Linux mint” part really just is their preset configs.
Just install Debian with XFCE if you want
You can use any DE you want on just about any distro you want
There isn’t an ISO for Linux Mint with Xfce.
What I would try:- Boot the normal ISO
- open a terminal instead of starting the installation
- enter
sudo live-installer-expert-mode
It should boot the Debian expert installer, which lets you choose what DE you want to install. I haven’t tested this on LMDE, though.
Otherwise, install LMDE normally. Then do
sudo apt install xfce4andsudo apt purge cinnamon* muffin* nemo*.Then do sudo apt install xfce4 and sudo apt purge cinnamon* muffin* nemo*.
It’s been a while since I installed xfce4 on anything, but if things haven’t changed I think the metapackage doesn’t include xfce4-goodies and some other packages, so if you’re missing something it’s likely that you just need to ‘apt install xfce4-whatever’. Additionally you can keep cinnamon around as long as you like as a kind of a backup, just change lightdm (or whatever login manager LMDE uses) to use xfce4 as default. And then there’s even lighter WM’s than XFCE, like LXDE, which is also easy to install via apt and try out if that works for you.
If the Mac has a Retina display then I actually found XFCE runs worst of the various DEs at native resolution. Not in terms of resources but very choppy scrolling, video playback etc. Gnome and KDE Plasma actually ran better than XFCE for me on my 15” 2012 retina.
Presume it’s some kind of graphics acceleration thing, not 100% sure.
If the Mac has a Retina display
yes, model is a MacBook Pro, Intel Core i5-4278U @ 2.60GHz, model A1502 (EMC 2875), Retina Mid-2014 13"
Incidentally, I got the notebook as a present, got rid of mac OS and installed xubuntu 23.10 on it. Some mac OS users mean this company deliberately slows down old computers so users feel compelled to buy something newer. Can it be that’s why this notebook is so slow? I didn’t do anything fancy to install xubuntu, just used the whole space to install from a usb stick so I wonder if some residual software is still present.
Contrary to most advice, if you find something that’s compatible with a Wayland session (basically Gnome or Plasma) you might be pleasantly surprised.
I found that to be by far the closest I got to a macOS-like experience with Linux on a retina Mac, in terms of fluidity, trackpad scrolling and responsiveness.
in short, I should install debian gnome or kde
Yes you can run xfce on lmde. I installed the xfce from repos and it works great with lmde.
I suggest trying Cinnamon and see how it feels. Unless your old notebook has less than 2GB RAM then you will probably be aok. I have run it on some pretty weak machines before and never found XFCE to be noticeably snappier.
I wouldn’t recommend installing a distro just to install a different DE. IMHO, you should be fine with cinnamon. I’m using Linux Mint 21.3 with cinnamon on an x201 (Thinkpad released in 2010), though I did up the RAM to the 8GB max. However, if you want XFCE, is there a reason you don’t want to use Linux Mint 21.3 with XFCE? If that’s no good for you, I’d recommend finding a distro that fits most of your needs right out of the box, maybe Peppermint Linux or MX Linux?
However, if you want XFCE, is there a reason you don’t want to use Linux Mint 21.3 with XFCE?
I’m still unsure about the differences: LMDE is based on debian, the OS I now use the most, whereas LM (linux mint) is based on ubuntu. Several posters have argued that LMDE, like debian, is barebones, whereas LM is ideal for an end user with not much idea about linux, but my main issue is speed: I don’t want the notebook to be painfully slow: this is a notebook with an Intel Core i5-4278U @ 2.60GHz (2 cores, 4 threads) with 8 GB RAM and installing and upgrading on xubuntu 23.10 was already really, painfully slow.
I either save on resources using a lightweight DE like xfce or using a barebones OS like LMDE
I also want to future proof it as much as possible, which would mean using the OS/DE that uses less resources.
this is a notebook with an Intel Core i5-4278U @ 2.60GHz (2 cores, 4 threads) with 8 GB RAM and installing and upgrading on xubuntu 23.10 was already really, painfully slow.
Have you put an SSD in there, or are you still running on spinning rust? In my experience, even a cheap SSD will make a huge difference.
yes. This MacBook Pro, Intel Core i5-4278U @ 2.60GHz, model A1502 (EMC 2875), Retina Mid-2014 13" has an embedded apple SSD.
I’m not going to spend any money upgrading any part of this notebook: not much bang for my buck and the model is most probably not supported anymore.
Several posters have argued that LMDE, like debian, is barebones, whereas LM is ideal for an end user with not much idea about linux
I believe I’m the only one in the previous post that used the term. But, I believe a misunderstanding has occurred. Debian, plain old Debian, is (relatively) bare-bones. And with this, I mean that extra tooling and what not is absent. Sure, these extra tooling etc come at the cost of what some might regard as bloat. But, ultimately, its absence should not affect performance in any significant way (so not positively, nor negatively). Thus, LMDE and Linux Mint are actually pretty close to one another. LMDE is basically just Linux Mint (Cinnamon edition) but with a Debian base instead of being based on Ubuntu.
I also want to future proof it as much as possible, which would mean using the OS/DE that uses less resources.
Excellent OP. Thank you for providing this insight on what’s important for you. With this information we’ll be able to offer better help. So, as you’ve excellently noticed already, Xfce is pretty good if you want a very functional machine that doesn’t suck a lot of resources. So, I totally support your decision for Xfce over Cinnamon as Xfce is simply less resource intensive. However, 8 GB of RAM should be pretty fine. Even GNOME should run wonderfully on 8 GB of RAM, so Cinnamon should not cause any troubles. But, if you’ve still got concerns and if you’re already on an SSD, then continue using Xfce as it’s otherwise one of the better DEs out there. But, if you’re not on an SSD yet, then consider slipping one inside; it will matter a lot.
Regarding your actual query, installing Xfce in retrospect to LMDE should work, but you might get yourself into more trouble than it’s worth. Therefore, I’d advice you to simply get Linux Mint Xfce Edition and call it a day. Going for the Edge ISO (which by default comes with Cinnamon) for the latest (and greatest) kernel and retroactively trying to setup Xfce should (once again) cause you more troubles than it’s worth it. So, in the end, I’d like to recommend you either Linux Mint Xfce Edition or MX Linux (which is based on Debian Stable (so not Ubuntu) and actually defaults to Xfce). Honestly, they’re mostly two flavors/interpretations that try to accomplish very similar goals. So, you should be fine with either one of the two.
model is a MacBook Pro, Intel Core i5-4278U @ 2.60GHz, model A1502 (EMC 2875), Retina Mid-2014 13" with an embedded SSD
Incidentally, I got the notebook as a present, got rid of mac OS and installed xubuntu 23.10 on it. Some mac OS users mean this company deliberately slows down old computers so users feel compelled to buy something newer. Can it be that’s why this notebook is so slow? I didn’t do anything fancy to install xubuntu, just used the whole space to install from a usb stick so I wonder if some residual software is still present.
model is a MacBook Pro, Intel Core i5-4278U @ 2.60GHz, model A1502 (EMC 2875), Retina Mid-2014 13" with an embedded SSD
Unfortunately, I don’t have any first-hand experience with this device. But, I do own the following potato; an Acer laptop with Intel Celeron, 2GB of RAM and no SSD from 2014-2016. And while the experience is pretty bad (on Zorin OS lite), it does its job as a backup laptop every once in a while. Compared to this potato, your device should be a lot more capable. So, either your expectations are off. Or, there’s something legitimately wrong with the hardware found on the device. Have you done any benchmarks to see if they work as expected?
Some mac OS users mean this company deliberately slows down old computers so users feel compelled to buy something newer. Can it be that’s why this notebook is so slow?
Slowing down of devices is AFAIK done (un)intentionally through updates. In a lot of cases either some functionality is removed post release for security reasons or (through technological advancements) more is expected from your average device and hence older devices fail to compete. I don’t think you should suspect anything else. Nonetheless, as previously alluded to, maybe some hardware failure is the cause.
I didn’t do anything fancy to install xubuntu, just used the whole space to install from a usb stick so I wonder if some residual software is still present.
This description of the installation seems fine. If it makes you feel better, you could consider deleting all partitions through something like GParted. But, usually, no residual software should be left behind.
Out of curiosity, what’s the issue with installing a different DE?
Out of curiosity, what’s the issue with installing a different DE?
There doesn’t necessarily have to be an issue. Heck, this simple operation (i.e. installing an additional DE on an existing system) works pretty fine on Arch/Debian etc.
However, as Linux Mint (and its family/brand of related distros) are designed/setup/opinionated in a certain way with a specific scope/vision, just installing Xfce on top of Linux Mint (proper/regular) doesn’t just give you Linux Mint Xfce Edition; you can try this out for yourself if you’d want to. Instead, you get something that looks more akin to Ubuntu with Xfce installed and some Linux Mint tools. Similarly, installing Xfce on top of LMDE doesn’t give you a proper LMDE Xfce edition. Which, to be fair, isn’t the worst thing out there and I’m pretty sure that someone out there will be pretty happy with it. But, one might also argue (as I certainly am) that, instead of that amalgamation (read: FrankenDebian), one would simply be better off with the Linux Mint Xfce Edition for which the ISO can be acquired directly from the Linux Mint team.
That’s weird, I have a laptop that probably even weaker (Pentium 2020M with 4 GB of RAM) that used to run Ubuntu fairly ok until about 4 years ago (but it has a SSD).
It’s now running Manjaro pretty well, just can’t compile some Rust-based apps because it runs out of RAM. 😄 But I get them from Flatpak instead.
If Ubuntu went off the rails during these last few years it’s a pity. Anyway, it should not be indicative of how well Linux runs on such a machine, just try another distro.
this notebook has an embedded SSD.
Some mac OS users mean this company deliberately slows down old computers so users feel compelled to buy something newer. Can it be that’s why this notebook is so slow? I didn’t do anything fancy to install xubuntu, just used the whole space to install from a usb stick so I wonder if some residual software is still present.
