Re: your on chain transactions argument, you’re completely over looking (intentionally?) the fact that day to day transactions don’t need to be on chain. In fact many would argue that they shouldn’t be on chain. Layer 2 protocols can handle all of that.
Just one example scenario could be…
Step 1. Your employer opens a Lightning Network channel to your node (self hosted, or not, your call). This requires one on chain transaction (actually, there are enhancements that allow opening multiple channels in a single transaction, but that’s beyond the scope of this conversation.)
Step 2. Every month, your employer pays you over this channel. No new on chain transactions happen for this.
Step 3. You use the channel to pay your rent/mortage, utility bill, etc. Still, no new on chain transactions.
Step 4. You continue to use the channel to buy groceries, lunch, drinks for friends, a massage, etc. No on chain transactions.
Step 5. Oops, you’ve got a bill that needs to be paid in fiat. What now?!? Use the channel to transfer some Bitcoin to your bank account, where it’s automatically converted into fiat. Pay your bill from there. Still no on chain transactions.
Step 6. Return to step 2. Still no on chain transactions.
…
Step 3,658,423. 6 years later, you leave your job, Your employer closes the channel. Any Bitcoin left on your side of the channel (if any) is sent to an on chain address that you provided in step 1. This requires one more on chain transaction.
Total number of on chain transactions in 6 years and countless payments: 2
In reality, that’s probably not exactly how it would work. For instance, I would quickly just send my entire paycheck back out on the channel to a different LN channel I had open with a reliable node operator so that I wasn’t dependent on my employer keeping their node running over the weekend so I could pick up the tab at the bar. Etc
Regardless, that’s how it could work. There are countless other ways it could work, limited only by the desires and imagination of those setting up their channels, and all allowing for countless transactions over months, years, even decades, to be represented by two small on chain transactions.
Ah, lightning… The dumbest idea ever to happen to bitcoin.
Those channels need to be filled with btc before they work. Who can do that? I certainly can’t do that for 6 years in advance. I’m certain my employer can’t do that for all his employees. You know what players can create large lightning channels? Banks! Why on earth would anyone who likes the idea of btc, with its promise of “your keys, your coins” suddenly go back to a banking system where an arbitrary third party service can just lock your funds because they dislike what you spend your money for? Lightning has been 10 years in the making but the idea hasn’t been picked up and I’m certain it never will. Because not only does the current implementation and user experience suck hard but because it literally copies the banking system that btc came to fight, giving users an experience that has literally no advantage at all compared to PayPal or visa. 10 years and even you are still all “would” and “could” in how you describe it.
If your argument why pow crypto isn’t energy hungry is that you don’t even have to use pow crypto but can just rely on an entirely different tech tacked to it in order to reduce usage of the core tech, fine. I guess it still proves my point. Besides the issue that nobody uses that broken piece of crap, the issue of course remains that there’s still no indication that it’s less energy hungry per transaction than any banking system. Banks are good at one thing, which is managing money. If you think that they’re intentionally wasting terawatthours of energy because of laziness or incompetence you’re mistaken. Distributing it to the users won’t cost less energy and I have no idea where that notion comes from.
The channel in my example only needs to be opened with one month’s pay, not 6 years worth. The same initial balance goes repeatedly goes back and forth across the channel as it is paid and spent. But your “superior knowledge” of the subject matter is clearly all you need to make your “informed” decisions, so, whatever. I wish you well.
Re: your on chain transactions argument, you’re completely over looking (intentionally?) the fact that day to day transactions don’t need to be on chain. In fact many would argue that they shouldn’t be on chain. Layer 2 protocols can handle all of that.
Just one example scenario could be…
Step 1. Your employer opens a Lightning Network channel to your node (self hosted, or not, your call). This requires one on chain transaction (actually, there are enhancements that allow opening multiple channels in a single transaction, but that’s beyond the scope of this conversation.) Step 2. Every month, your employer pays you over this channel. No new on chain transactions happen for this. Step 3. You use the channel to pay your rent/mortage, utility bill, etc. Still, no new on chain transactions. Step 4. You continue to use the channel to buy groceries, lunch, drinks for friends, a massage, etc. No on chain transactions. Step 5. Oops, you’ve got a bill that needs to be paid in fiat. What now?!? Use the channel to transfer some Bitcoin to your bank account, where it’s automatically converted into fiat. Pay your bill from there. Still no on chain transactions. Step 6. Return to step 2. Still no on chain transactions. … Step 3,658,423. 6 years later, you leave your job, Your employer closes the channel. Any Bitcoin left on your side of the channel (if any) is sent to an on chain address that you provided in step 1. This requires one more on chain transaction.
Total number of on chain transactions in 6 years and countless payments: 2
In reality, that’s probably not exactly how it would work. For instance, I would quickly just send my entire paycheck back out on the channel to a different LN channel I had open with a reliable node operator so that I wasn’t dependent on my employer keeping their node running over the weekend so I could pick up the tab at the bar. Etc
Regardless, that’s how it could work. There are countless other ways it could work, limited only by the desires and imagination of those setting up their channels, and all allowing for countless transactions over months, years, even decades, to be represented by two small on chain transactions.
Ah, lightning… The dumbest idea ever to happen to bitcoin.
Those channels need to be filled with btc before they work. Who can do that? I certainly can’t do that for 6 years in advance. I’m certain my employer can’t do that for all his employees. You know what players can create large lightning channels? Banks! Why on earth would anyone who likes the idea of btc, with its promise of “your keys, your coins” suddenly go back to a banking system where an arbitrary third party service can just lock your funds because they dislike what you spend your money for? Lightning has been 10 years in the making but the idea hasn’t been picked up and I’m certain it never will. Because not only does the current implementation and user experience suck hard but because it literally copies the banking system that btc came to fight, giving users an experience that has literally no advantage at all compared to PayPal or visa. 10 years and even you are still all “would” and “could” in how you describe it.
If your argument why pow crypto isn’t energy hungry is that you don’t even have to use pow crypto but can just rely on an entirely different tech tacked to it in order to reduce usage of the core tech, fine. I guess it still proves my point. Besides the issue that nobody uses that broken piece of crap, the issue of course remains that there’s still no indication that it’s less energy hungry per transaction than any banking system. Banks are good at one thing, which is managing money. If you think that they’re intentionally wasting terawatthours of energy because of laziness or incompetence you’re mistaken. Distributing it to the users won’t cost less energy and I have no idea where that notion comes from.
The channel in my example only needs to be opened with one month’s pay, not 6 years worth. The same initial balance goes repeatedly goes back and forth across the channel as it is paid and spent. But your “superior knowledge” of the subject matter is clearly all you need to make your “informed” decisions, so, whatever. I wish you well.