Repeal CAFE standards, or just delete the entire catagory of “light truck”. If it doesn’t have a bed, its not a fucking truck. This entire fucked situation is literally just automakers not wanting to be bothered to make fuel efficient cars when you can call everything a fucking truck and be mostly exempt from having to comply with the far stricter regulations around smaller passenger vehicles MPG standards.
And the automakers give zero shits since they make so much more selling these larger utterly pointless vehicles rather than smaller, more economical ones.
tax light trucks heavily unless the owner can prove they use it for business purposes, like construction or farming
Light trucks is kinda a crazy category. It’s lighter vehicles that
(1) Designed primarily for purposes of transportation of property or is a derivation of such a vehicle, or (2) Designed primarily for transportation of persons and has a capacity of more than 12 persons, or (3) Available with special features enabling off-street or off-highway operation and use
Vans, minivans, SUVs, and crossovers are mostly categorized as light trucks. Most vehicles on the road are light trucks; they outsell cars right now 3 to 1
And pedestrian fatalities are are on the rise for some reason. Can’t imagine why
Not to “make rules for me” but I do think minivans should get a category of some kind - it puts all it’s points in function, and none in sport/SUV, is the most efficient user of space, and generally reasonable hood height. Plus I’m not buying one to brag or strut my stuff.
I used to haul my four wheeler around in the back of my mom’s town and country in high school. It was crazy easy to load and unload since the rear deck was so low. Just pulled the seats out, put a tarp down, setup the ramps and pushed it in since it was such a shallow angle. Worked great, did it a couple dozen times.
Minivans are more useful utility vehicles than most modern trucks and I’ll die on this hill. The bed height on modern trucks alone is kind bogglingly idiotic.
I’d love something between an Astrovan and a traditional minivan.
There’s one flaw in the design: frontal cross section. They sit as low to the ground as a sedan, but are as tall as a crossover. This makes their aerodynamics terrible.
I’d still prefer one over a crossover, because we haul things on a regular basis and a minivan with the rear-most seats out would be more practical for us. Nobody makes an EV minivan yet, though. Closest thing is the Ford Transit EV, but it’s only sold to commercial customers, and its range is limited.
My grandma had to get a rental vehicle temporarily while her minivan was getting repaired. She asked the rental place for a minivan and they gave her a giant SUV. That thing was terrifying and barely fit in the garage
They did change up the rules for trucks in 2011 following the PT cruiser getting classified as a truck, but they made it worse.
Now CAFE standards are based on vehicle footprint, which encourages giant vehicles. It also killed the small truck category of vehicles, which is why a Ranger today is the size of an F-150 from before, and an F-150 is the size of a small moon.
On the plus size, it’s also why the base-model engine on the Maverick is the hybrid with the traditional engine being the “upgrade.”
Require a business license for pickup trucks. And tax by weight.
If anyone would care to read the article it’s more about companies making more high end cars and running low stocks than making cars bigger. They reduced stock during the pandemic and discovered that they can make more money selling fewer cars with maxed out specs than a lot of base models. They simply don’t have base models on stock now and people still have to buy cars so profits are soaring. Basically they made everyone depend on cars by killing public transport and are now milking it hard. Because what are you going to do? Work from home?
Good thing China isn’t ready to flood the market with millions of cheap electric cars. This short term profit is going to end up biting them in the ass real quick. Although I guess they know they’ll just get bailed out, so there’s no reason to innovate.
Not to worry: protectionism will take take of the competition. Just like they did with the Japanese manufacturers…
Yeah no one drives a Honda or Toyota 🙄🤣
Domestically there’s still Tesla, although I guess they decided to do a stupid big truck as well.
Most of those Chinese cars wouldn’t meet US safety regs. Getting them up to that level would put them closer to cost parity.
They sell them in the EU, which has stricter safety regulations. If they set out to do it, they’ll flood the market and get the traditional manufacturers in trouble.
Wow, I didn’t realize there were Chinese cars on the European market. Are the cars being received well? Are there major issues with them and if there are major issues, does price still make them worth it?
They’re surprisingly good, particularly BYD cars, in my experience.
Americans’ vehicles tend to be huge, wildly inefficient for their daily usage, and they throw off externalities like pedestrian and cyclist risks, road damage, and support for countries who use our gas spending to make the world less liberal.
VW, Honda, Toyota, and Datsun capitalized on American vehicle bloat to build massive, multinational companies with products in every segment. The Chinese are going to ruin our domestic manufacturers, once they decide to build bridgehead plants here.
Today, I’m driving an Acura that is made in Marysville, Ohio. Not assembled; it is substantively made here in the States. And, the chain reaction that led to Honda, a Japanese company, exporting profits made from American productivity in 2024, started with the Big Three making massively bloated, inefficient, expensive, poorly designed cars, leaving a gap in the market that foreign companies exploited with right-sized, efficient, affordable, reliable vehicles, starting in the ‘60s and exploding with the ‘73 oil crisis.
I don’t have time to find a link, but there have been studies that demonstrate that the exact choices being made by American manufacturers today—to not fully serve the bottom of the market—sow the seeds of their own future declines in the middle and upper markets.
I truly feel car manufacturers are doing everything in their power to make sure that I personally regret every car decision I make. I hope a new comer starts at a low price point and eventually takes their higher margin stuff as well.
EU allows all sorts of stuff that isn’t allowed in the US. Believe it or not, US safety regs are generally higher than the EU (for passengers, anyway). The Ariel Atom, for example, needs some hoop jumping to make it US street legal, but can be driven without issue much of the EU.
My biggest worry is that once/if the Chinese make cars “good enough for the US market”, all car companies lobby for worse consumer protections since those regulations no longer keep new competitors out of the market.
I’d be OK with it, but with some caveats. Many US safety regs (and some pollution regs, as well) push things towards larger vehicles in indirect ways. Japanese Kei cars can be perfectly good for city use–not for US highways, but a lot of driving doesn’t need to go there–but they would never pass US safety regs. And you don’t need to get much bigger than a Kei to have something that works for US highways. Big is only safer for passengers, not for people outside the vehicle.
So if it comes in the context of also getting smaller cars on the road, that would be fine.
While I agree with you, big cars are like lawyers. You keep big cars around to protect you from other big cars.
Not really, the big problem is tariffs. You have to do at least final assembly in the US to avoid that.
Oh hey almost exactly like the housing issue… Greedy fucking companies realized they made more making McMansions than starter houses so no one makes reasonable houses anymore and we’re all stuck trying to buy 4+ bedroom overpriced shit…
There’s no way this could be bad for society at large especially when driving is pretty much mandatory outside of cities. Nah, it couldn’t be bad because it’s good for corporations. Not that anyone cares. Externalities is just a fancy word…
Remember: can’t afford life? Move to a low cost of living area and drive 2 hours to work! …wait…
Remember: can’t afford life? Move to a low cost of living area and drive 2 hours to work! …wait…
The article even mentions some research that in the suburbs people with cars tend to get better jobs.
Every “decent” job I’ve had I had to travel 30+ min by car, I would never have had the same opportunities without a car.
That’s going to break down when Starbucks in San Francisco/etc. can’t find workers because the cost to drive 20 miles to work is greater than what they’re being paid. That day when low-paying big city jobs disappear because no one can afford to get there and work there is coming very fast.
It’s already here. They aggressively recruited among the higher middle class urban kids and poverty kids who can use mass transit. And now they have a very stubborn union movement.
That’s a lot of words to say “Cartel”. Car…tel… get it?
I’m here all day, folks! 👍
Here’s a hint: the automakers are doing great. By essentially coordinating an industry-wide production cut, the pandemic gave manufacturers power to demand mind-boggling prices for fewer cars, leading to record profits. As consumers adjusted their expectations, executives saw an opportunity to establish a lucrative new normal. Low inventory is an “opportunity to drive strong margins”, GM’s CEO, Mary Barra, told shareholders in 2022. Ford’s CEO, Jim Farley, went even further, declaring: “I want to make it extremely clear to everyone: we are going to run our business with a lower day supply than we have had in the recent past because that’s good for our company.”
Also see: collusion… market manipulation… fauxflation.
Yet another point in the argument for a government corporation that makes basic shit and provides basic services across the board.
I’ve noticed this trend in other businesses, as well.
They’ve realized it’s more profitable to screw over fewer people harder than it is to try to appease more customers with better deals. The most notable example of this to me would be the fast food industry.
It’s a win-win, because they get to expend fewer resources due to fewer customers and they make more money with each transaction.
Fuck greed and anyone who supports it.
To extend and clarify a bit, if you want a base model they don’t have, you have to pay a delivery fee. At which point you might as well buy the higher trim on the lot.
Even worse, you have to pay a delivery fee on the cars in stock too.
Well not officially. At least not where I’ve been car shopping before. But that might explain the 2,000 dollars in dealer add ons they refuse to sell the car without.
Oh hey almost exactly like the housing issue… Greedy fucking companies realized they made more making McMansions than starter houses so no one makes reasonable houses anymore and we’re all stuck trying to buy 4+ bedroom overpriced shit…
There’s no way this could be bad for society at large especially when driving is pretty much mandatory outside of cities. Nah, it couldn’t be bad because it’s good for corporations. Not that anyone cares. Externalities is just a fancy word…
Remember: can’t afford life? Move to a low cost of living area and drive 2 hours to work! …wait…
Maybe it’s my interest in economics, but American life is so expensive in part because Americans are willing to spend a shit ton of money because they think they’re supposed to. It’s like we’re all enamored with the idea that bigger and more is better just because someone said so. And then we complain about things being unaffordable like corporations aren’t trying to fleece us for all we’re worth.
I’ve heard it said that Americans purchase based on the maximal use case as opposed to the typical use case. As an American, that description makes so much sense. As an example, I live in an area where there are a lot of hills and it snows rarely, but just about everyone who can afford a 4WD SUV has one. Heaven forbid they can’t drive around on those 1-2 days a year that it snows! Meanwhile, they get shitty gas mileage driving to work the other 300-odd days of the year.
The maximal use case! That’s a good way of thinking about it!
I’m struggling with my SO to buy a reasonable house in a high cost of living area. They want a massive 2000 Sq ft monstrosity because we plan to have a kid soon, and I’m thinking 1500 is more than enough. They’re reasoning it’s we need space for each other and entertaining. My reasoning is I want to eat out at the nearby fantastic restaurants nearby more often and buy cheese and wine and stuff.
The more walkable the location of the house, the less space you need because that space is outside your house.
US cities are rapidly running out of 3rd places. There’s almost no neighborhood commercial centers with a cafe and a pub/bar that you can visit for extended periods of time.
The net result is that the home and the workplace are the primary locations we can spend time in.
Running out of 3rd spaces? LOL you only see those in museums now. See the smilodon exhibit next to the woolly mammoth exhibit and next to that is the American 3rd Space exhibit!
That somehow sounds like the primary space people spend time in should be a bar and not their home. That’s insane. Though maybe it’s some kind of an extrovert dream.
That’s quite the straw man of my statement. You’ve read a ton into what I wrote.
Given that, I get to turn right around and say “okay, then we’ll have no absolutely no places outside of work and home. All supplies delivered to a drop box on your doorstep so introverts never have to talk to a human.”
My point was that communities historically have had places where people can choose to go and spend time in the shared space. Common examples of these spaces include cafes and bars/pubs. Geez you made me have to be stupid pedantic.
I enjoy going to shared public spaces and businesses that welcome sitting and relaxing. So sue me. I also make friends with every housecat, dog, hamster, and houseplant (if no pets are available) at parties I get roped into. I am, at best, a light duty introvert.
I spend way too much time in my house because going out to places in the US is extra work. The accessibility of places to sit and relax around my neighbors is next to nil. This isn’t true when I get to visit international cities that aren’t capitalist car-centric hellscapes. There, I walk to nearby places to sit and enjoy my city, not just my apartment. The world should have places to be outside the home, even if hiding in your four walls is both an introverts dream and a capitalism goal.
Meanwhile COVID loves extroverts!
No, they’re just saying it would be a part of that space. Like with a veterans club. You don’t have to buy anything to be there. (Of course you do need to pay your membership, which is why we’re talking about spaces that are just funded as a government item)
I mean… it depends on what you mean, I guess? Even if I hadn’t spent the pandemic lockdowns comfortably holed up in a small apartment, it’s worth noting that big-ass houses typically have yards while small apartments do not.
I guess if you mean “having shops, bars and restaurants within walking distance” that can maybe work, but otherwise that doesn’t seem to track.
Ah yes the private yard, another anti third space.
Public parks. The city even does your landscaping for you.
I don’t really know what this conversation was meant to be about at this point, and after re-reading the thread in order a few times I think you don’t either.
I had to use a unit converter, but I’ve lived in places housing up to seven people that weren’t that big. Comfortably.
This is a conversation I had here recently as well when I pointed out to a car thread that for the money Americans pay for pickup trucks you can also buy a hatchback and a proper van, cover most use cases and not drive a tank to take kids to school. They did NOT like that.
Hatchbacks and vans are enclosed and not fun to haul stinky stuff and aren’t conducive to hosing out after.
The main problem in the US is companies not making Coupe utility sized vehicles like the Subaru Brat or the El Camino. Small and light vehicles with beds. I would love a small AWD electric or hybrid truck that size that has good mileage for commuting and just enough convenience for moving cumbersome and stinky things around. The Ford Maverick is a move in the right direction, but is almost a midsized truck instead of going full on compact.
AAAAAAH, it’s happening again!
Let me speedrun through this: I’ve never seen a pickup truck and I am in a rural place where people move stinky stuff all the time. Vans can be purchased with sealed off cabins, and with all doors open can be hosed down easily. It’s fine. Nobody here has pickups. I haven’t seen a pickup or known anybody to have one and everybody is fine. This is a strictly American thing and the US isn’t the moon, there really isn’t a unique need to use a truck bed for school runs.
You’re doing the thing the man said: drive a tank to buy groceries in case you have to haul manure once a year.
Congratulations you anecdotal experience means nothing. I see pick up trucks ALL the time in rural areas (in Germany and the US) and in the US they aren’t all hulking behemoth dodge rams. Those fill the suburbs. There’s nothing wrong with wanting a small compact truck for hauling stuff. Trucks like the 95 toyota hilux, 98 Ford ranger, and 92 Jeep Comanche are great for hauling stuff like used furniture or concrete powder and picking up your kids from school without looking like an Abrams tank.
This is a strictly American thing and the US isn’t the moon
Except the 2 best selling cars GLOBALLY in 2020 was the Toyata corolla and the Toyota hilux a fucking truck. The hilux was 2020′s best-selling VEHICLE in 14 countries, including Argentina, Australia, Panama, South Africa and Fiji.
You don’t speak for the rest of the world
Wait, in 2020? Why not look up 22 or 23? I mean, it’s not like anything weird would have impacted the market in 2020, huh? And hey, it doesn’t even look that bad for your case, the Hilux and the F150 both break the top 10 in the most recent source I could find, if narrowly. The best seller I see is a SUV, and man, trust me, I don’t share your defensiveness here, you are super allowed to mock those.
Now, I don’t speak for the whole world, but I sure speak for myself. Since I was checking, in my location small vans and pickups all together account for less than 10% of the national market as per the most recent data (they don’t even bother separating those segments, apparently). Large commercial vans and small commercial trucks are actually as big of a segment.
So yeah, anecdotally and statistically, it’s exceedingly rare to see a pickup truck here. Turns out you also don’t speak for the rest of the world. Because, you know, nobody does. That tends to happen with hundreds of countries and billions of people.
I think people tend to pick the wrong targets in this debate. Stuff like the Ford Maverick and F150 are usually people who really don’t need a truck, and most crossover/SUV drivers would be fine with a sedan. Once you get into the F250 and higher, though, you’re mostly dealing with people who actually use their truck for a living. There are reasons workers in the US choose those–such as fifth wheel trailers–and there are reasons why European workers don’t (except when they do).
And it’s really silly. Vans for that kind of work are generally truck frames with a different back end. It doesn’t make that much difference at that level. The best you can say is that the hood doesn’t stick out as far and therefore visibility is better, but even that’s not always true, and there are other tradeoffs with that design.
I live in rural Germany. The only people with these trucks are the ones that never use the bed. In fact, I’ve recently seen one at the hardware store. The guy bought a shelf maybe 1.5 m long. Neither did it fit in the bed, nor did it fit in the cabin. Such a worthless piece of shit.
Everyone in the trade business uses vans. For heavy duty hauling they obviously use something bigger than a fucking pickup truck.
That out of the way, I see the appeal in smaller old-school trucks. They usually have larger beds than the ridiculously oversized pieces of shit that start sprouting in urban areas.
It’s about impossible to make this point with some Americans. Don’t cause yourself an aneurysm.
I want a truck the size of a Subaru Brat, which had a shorter total length than a Honda Fit.
Is that unreasonable?
This is a strictly American thing
If by “American” you mean North American, then yeah, you are correct, because pickups are also super popular in Canada and Mexico. But I don’t think that’s what you mean. I think you mean to specify the US which again, is incorrect. The fact that pickups are so popular in Canada and Mexico as well tells us that contrary to what I suspect you’re trying to imply, there isn’t some kind of special innate idiotic pickup truck gene that’s unique to Americans and that instead, it’s all about marketing.
After all, if marketing and advertising didn’t work, it wouldn’t be a multi-billion dollar industry. What the big American car companies have done with amazing effectiveness is to make owning a pickup truck an intimate part of a lot of people’s self-image. That’s what you are arguing against and that’s why it’s nearly impossible to change anyone’s mind about it.
That’s all fair enough. And let me just include the first part about North America in there and not also pick the fight about Canada being mostly in that same cultural bundle because this thread is already trolly and angry enough.
I think if this thread wasn’t such a hassle it’d be interesting to pick some of that apart, because I do think the marketing is culturally bound, not arbitrary (if it was arbitrary it would have worked in the places where it didn’t). I do think it’s obviously hard to argue about the identitarian bit you mention, though, because… well, look around this thread.
Congratulations on having a different experience! A van is too big for my tastes, you know they are basically enclosed trucks right?
I clearly said I didn’t want a tank, and have no idea why you automatically equate an exposed bed with a tank. Do you know how small a Brat was?
Non-tank sized vans are available and have better aerodynamics and overall utility than a truck.
Right, but in this scenario you end up with two vehicles: a light, economical car to drive and a dedicated work vehicle. The original point is that expensive, heavy vehicles as daily drivers can be less practical and economical than mutiple cheaper, dedicated vehicles.
For some reason, this makes Americans, and especially American car people VERY angry to hear, and it’s bizarre.
What about a small car trailer?
How is an extra piece of equipment that is less convenient and takes up more space a better solution? Where the fuck am I going to keep that when I could just have that same space in the back of a vehicle instead of an enclosed trunk?
Either truck means something different in your language where you cannot conceive of one being small, or you are somehow opposed to a vehicle with an open bed existing at all.
Please keep offering less convenient solutions than having an open bed in the back of a car sized vehicle though, it is entertaining how fucking ridiculous the suggestions are instead of just agreeing that a smaller trucks would be a nice alternative.
The base answer to your problem is owning a **small and light trailer. One that is capable of hauling a few boards or an appliance or two like a clothes washer or refrigerator. And when done with the task, can be parked in a corner and forgotten until needed again. A perfectly good one can be had for around $500US - Some simple assembly required.
**Apartment dwellers might not be able to own one.
Or just go to UHaul, rent a truck or van for $20, then return it.
That can work also. As long as there is a U-Haul to rent from and they have what you need when you need it. And it WILL cost more than $20 - been there done that.
The trailer takes up space when not being used, the back half of the vehicle does not. This is true no matter what the parking situation is. Zero space is better than any space, if the back half of the vehicle doesn’t need to be enclosed or have seating.
The trailer requires some extra maintenance too. Keeping things oiled, tires aired up and replaced regularly. Driving with the trailer means needing to use to parking stalls when parking. Backing up with trailers is a lot of fun too!
The trailer is a very situational benefit for situations where the main vehicle space is needed. Hell, if I need a trailer I can just rent one from UHaul. But I don’t when the same thing is solved with a truck bed, and the truck bed format is far more convenient if the vehicle with the bed is the same size as a normal car!
There are light trailers that can be stored vertically to take very minimal space and can be deployed in a few minutes of effort.
The maintenance costs and effort of greasing two bearings and tire replacement is still far, far, less than the total cost of owning and insuring a pickup truck. Plus, they have the bonus of being a whole lot easier to load and unload due to the much lower bed height.
Any place you might go with your trailer to haul larger/heavier items will have proper room to park your vehicle and small trailer. After all, they are getting far larger trucks and trailers to receive and ship items in bulk. Appliance, home improvement, furniture stores and the like seldom have “street only” parking. And if that’s all that’s available, you didn’t need either the trailer or a pickup truck to shop there.
Backing up a trailer isn’t hard - learn to drive.
We have two kids in a 3 bed/2 bath 1350 sq ft home. We do have a full basement, but the kids aren’t really allowed down there (power tools, toy stash, etc). I guess I do hang out there some nights, but that’s only because my gaming computer moved downstairs years ago when our oldest started to be able to reach the keyboard and pull key caps off it.
In our experience, you’re probably not going to do a lot of entertaining while you have young kids. While one of your kids is under 3-4, and sometimes older, they’re going to need naps. They’re also going to have early bedtimes. Naps are mostly behind us, and we do have afternoon play dates, but the kids don’t really care what space they’re in as long as they’re engaged and have things to do. Having an adult gathering is… very rare. We have a nice sized yard, so we tend to have gatherings outside.
I don’t think we need extra bedrooms or bigger bedrooms/bathrooms. An office might be nice, but working from the basement works just as well. A toy room could be nice, but to me it would be wasted space as the kids get older and have fewer, but larger/more engaging, toys. At least around here, the extra room comes with extra walls that result in a space that’s not often used (think a formal dining room).
There’s also the financial side of things. We could afford a larger house, but would rather be putting any extra into 529s, our own 401ks, etc. Kid related expenses really add up before you start also thinking about a bigger mortgage payment.
Ok. We raised 4 kids in an 1800 sq foot house with one bathroom. I do not recommend the one bathroom, but the space was more than adequate.
Having said that, it does make a difference, we have the same size house now and only 2 kids left at home, but this house has a bigger main kitchen/dining area, smaller bedrooms, a separate living room for the kids, an enormous back porch/deck adding to the useable space and entertaining space is really helpful more than I had imagined.
1500 arranged right with small bedrooms and enough common area, and at least 2 bathrooms sure. It’s not a small house, that’s a medium size house. With an enormous porch? Hell yeah. We used to live in one of those with two other couples, it was fine. But I do think you are undercounting the value of common space.
My hybrid SUV (Ford escape) has awd and gets low-mid 40s mpg on my 12gallon-600 mile tank. The trick is the awd isn’t permanently on, it’s only on when it needs the traction or I change the drive mode to AWD when I’m expecting ice/snow.
On cars I agree wholeheartedly. It’s way too expensive to maintain that capacity. We rent a minivan to travel but buy small car for daily use.
House I am not convinced, the value proposition is different. It really is nice to have a little extra space. Not some monstrous McMansion, but not cozy, and space for the kids to have their gaming computer stuff not inside their bedroom and my home office stuff not inside my bedroom. And moving is a pain in the ass and expensive, absolutely don’t want to have to scale up if the family gets bigger.
Oh yeah the “office” they keep trying to delete from apartments and town houses. There’s good evidence for psychological health in separating sleep, work, play, and relaxation spaces.
It’s the issue of “but sometimes”. People want to use a worse solution because the better solution has an issue that happens only rarely.
I’m always blown away seeing these blue collar guys driving around these $50-80k trucks that probably get 8 mpg. How do they afford this?
Debt to their eyeballs
Also some of them are paid very well. Any of your unionized specialty trades can easily make $150k+ a year, especially if they’re willing to travel or work a lot of OT. If you’re single or married with no kids, you can pretty easily afford a big fancy truck like that.
If you’re willing to travel that can be more than $50k a year in per diem pay, so in two years you can easily pay off a new trailer to live in and a nice truck to haul it with. I personally know people who have done exactly this. The catch is that you need to get into a good union and do your apprenticeship and generally have your shit together. It always surprises me that more people don’t know this.
Credit?
Loan on a $50k vehicle is $1000-$1500/month depending on loan term. It’s likely $80 minimum every time you refuel too.
That’s why repossessions are a booming business.
Yes, I’ve been trying to get the idea across to people to spend less instead of making more.
They just don’t get it, and I think that’s by design.
These problems won’t get solved until our culture changes. It won’t change until enough people feel disenfranchised.
In other words, it’ll get worse before it gets better. Blame every poor person who believes the disparity in wealth should grow instead of shrink.
Stop buying SUVs and expensive cars!
How else will I feel superiority to others just because I spend more money than them?
Not sure but you can just pimp out your cheapie
Can’t have the poors driving - they should be working! cf. Drive to eliminate internal combustion driven vehicles and replace with EVs as well.
Don’t worry! Well make them all return to the office so that 90% of them are forced to commute via car. That means they’ll have to buy one even if they can’t afford it! It’s genius and there’s definitely no other way this can be done because otherwise they will miss out on all that important in-office interaction bullshit!
It blows my mind how many people are paying nearly my rent on their car payment. We’ve already normalized having 48+ month financing on cars people would never even think about buying because it’s 2 years salary instead of a 2 months. But you can pay $800 every month, right?
Better not lose the job you need the car for that you need to pay for the car payment because miss a few and all those payments go bye-bye, it’s repo time! Then good luck getting a job, if you can’t pay your car payment, you won’t even be able to afford a clapped out 94 civic with 200k for $5k. Maybe if you just move out for a few months you can save up enough to get that car. Just a few months on friends couches or in motels, then it will be okay. Then you’ll get back on your feet.
How do they even do it? I know for a fact that a lot of them are not especially wealthy.
Longer loan terms. Interest rates were really low just a few years ago too, so people were able to buy more than they would have been.
Seems like this would be a good time for foreign car companies to take advantage of the US automakers entrenched positions again like Japan did in the 1970s.
Would that work? Most
peopleAmericans wouldn’t want to be found dead in a car that isn’t showing off hoe big their penis really really is.If they sold a new car cheaper than the standard used car and actually had stock yeah if you build them people would come … buy them.
Well, I gotta save for a Chrysler 300 because that’s the only company who isn’t lobbying against right to repair.
Chrysler is probably only doing it because they already design their vehicles to be a huge pain in the ass to repair. I remember my buddy having to remove his wheel to replace his battery in his intrepid because the only access was via the wheel well.
I’ve also heard a story about Toyota where they would buy competitor vehicles to disassemble them and see what they were up to and they stopped bothering to even look at Chrysler vehicles because they didn’t have anything useful to learn from their designs.
I just bought an old diesel Mercedes that I’m hoping will last me until the next era of car technology. I can’t believe how easy it is to work on, almost as if it was designed to be maintained instead of to discourage the owner from doing so.
Currently it’s had only 200k of its reputed million miles used up, so it has a long way to go yet!
I’ve heard the Chrysler 300 is pretty expensive to repair, but I still don’t wanna see my money in the hands of companies who are actively working against us.
Chrysler dealership wants $450 to diagnose an issue on my 200. Local shop directed me to them because it was an electronics issue that they would need to repair. Not sure I would trust Chrysler either.
Really? In the entire world or are you just one of those “buy american” saps?
I’m literally in America. What do you want me to do? Pay for an import of something from China or some shit?
or are you just one of those “buy american” saps?
I have my answer.
the average used car lists at more than $26,000
Craig’s list is your friend. Giant pile of cars there for four digits.
ones that run are in the high four digits, and the days of a sub $1000 running beater are over
I’m hanging on to my sub $1000 beater. Late 90s Civic with 240k miles and no clear coat still has better mpg than our newish CRV.
My 2022 crv hybrid gets about the same mileage as my wife’s stick shift 2012 civic!
20 years ago I bought a civic for $1200 from Craigslist. Sold it 10 years ago for $1600. They’re great cars.
My first ever car was a 95 civic 2-door. Beat it to hell, fucked up a wheel so that there was a 1/4" of clearance between tire and wheel well, the exhaust fell off, the computer was starting to act up, and I still kick myself for letting my friend talk me into selling it for a 2003 ford escape. That got sold for a song after I fucked up the engine head trying to fix the second popped spark plug it had…
I like how the article mentions: The preferred solution of many planners – replace car trips with transit – faces difficult odds in this country. Yet the last paragraph discusses s proposed solution being provide money to help lower income people buy and maintain cars.
It’s a good thing we give them so much TAXPAYER money! I’d MUCH rather give THESE men my Money then STARVING CHILDREN!
When I get a car I’m gonna buy it based on minimal use case, so that I don’t use it unless I have to. A fucking Trabant or something.
