Note:
I swapped the original article at the request of a mod to from a source deemed more reliable, but to avoid confusion when reading the comment section prior to this edit, here is the link to the original article. I chose the Relief Web source listed by some who commented. Cheers!
WSWS isn’t a great source because it’s based on a cause.
However, here’s the report.
It’s uh… Not good.
At what point does the Foreign Assistance Act’s ban on sending aid to countries in violation of human rights standards come into play? It seems like we’re getting a report on a new war crime every few days, which is a breathtaking rate for a professional Army.
At what point does the Foreign Assistance Act’s ban on sending aid to countries in violation of human rights standards come into play?
when it’s politically convenient and not a moment before
It won’t be popular here - but that report is just a report of allegations and is also not substantiated by anything?
If the UN says it, it’s always true.
The report includes the sources.
The report is just repeating allegations and asking for an investigation. Did no one else read it?
It is not a finding of fact or anything similar.
The report here also does not include sources or evidence.
It literally tells you exactly which NGO did the original information gathering. And if Israel wants better treatment at the UN they should stop running an Apartheid government.
That is neither evidence nor a source.
It is literally a source. And you won’t see actual evidence without going there yourself.
Genocide Joe removed any restriction of human rights violations on the aid for israel so until you vote him out
Oh yes because Trump would use our forces to do it instead.
Look, don’t counter with 3rd party. That’s literally throwing your vote away.
Biden is the only way to beat Trump. There are backwards racists in the Democrats too. You’re not going to get support for anything than an old white guy until at least 2028…
Isn’t what you’re doing straight up “whataboutism”?
Not when presented with “vote him out.” At that point, you have to look at what that realistically looks like. If just pointing out what’s wrong with Biden, then bringing Republicans up would be. But if you’re looking at the choice between the two, it only makes sense to talk about them.
See you in the camps!
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Who are you to tell people they are throwing THEIR votes away?
A person with an understanding of math
Americans will vote for two genocide enabling people before they even realize that they always had a choice. You people are so brainwashed it’s scary. The democracy you have is a farce
No matter what you think is the proper way to approach change, in the meantime you are better off not voting for the authoritarian.
They are completely free to say that
I read it as it’s not up to somebody else to decide if your choice of vote is a waste.
It’s up to each person to decide what to do with their own vote.
Sure, they’re free to say it and the other person is free to point out that it’s not up to “Anonymous Internet Person” to decide what is the right way for me to vote.
From my point of view in a system that’s nowehere as undemocratic as the US, these “things are the way they are, so we have to accept these constraints” kind of responses to that post sure look like the kind of passive acceptance of injustice so common in dictatorships.
Go ahead, throw your vote away!
Just don’t cry when you’re in the camps .
What camp? Is this related to the rape centers from a few posts back?
It’s one of the possible activities. I’m looking forward to basket weaving.
Probably a place where there’s a lot of concentration on finding solutions. You know, the final kind?
Just say “I don’t care about Genocide I only care about my student loans. Fuck Arab babies they can all die if I get some money. I am as morally reprehensible as every single billionaire I condemn”.
Take your mask off already and stop pretending.
Friend I don’t want to be raped to death in a 2025 US concentration camp so I’m voting for Joe. I’m sorry this is what it’s come down to for many of us.
Yeah they said this shit in 2016 and you’re all still alive. You can drop the fear mongering act now and just say you want all Arabs to die.
I hate Trump but the stuff these people make up is absurd. How does voting for Trump lead to rape centers; except for the ones that already exist for Mexicans…
This is a good video if you’re asking in good faith.
Oh yes Trump, well known for opposition to authoritarian overreach.
What you should have said was nothing.
Guy asks a question about what it will take to stop Genocide Joe from his Zionazi escapades
I give the only correct answer since bombing children’s hospitals full of already maimed kids doesn’t seem to cross a red line for Biden
If anyone is still wondering why Hamas and other resistance factions are fighting, this is what happens when the IDF wins.
Fuck Hamas. They are not “resisting”, they killed innocent civilians, women and children, and don’t give a flying fuck about the Palestinian civilians either (cf Moussa Abu Marzouk’s declaration that they are not responsible for defending the civilians in Gaza). They are a creation of the Israeli apartheid regime’s own making when they were hoping to destroy the credibility of the PA, to perpetuate their colonialist narrative. Hamas and the Israeli apartheid are two sides of the same brutal, inhuman coin. Fuck Hamas as much as the Likud and the ultranationalist Israeli right to the seventh pit of hell.
on the radio I heard two scholars discussing recent polls that reveal a surprisingly strong level of support for Hamas among gazans even now, despite the level of backlash that has resulted. when asked why, they said that Palestinians have long given up any hope that negotiations could achieve their goal of freedom and independence. they said that since negotiating has clearly failed for decades, Palestinians feel that the only remaining option Israel has left them is aggression and violence. and Hamas is the leadership that is willing to resort to violence.
while I certainly feel awful about any innocent Israelis getting caught up in the original attack, I can’t help but feel like Israel has done this to themselves. they have caged an entire group like wild animals for decades and somehow have the audacity to blame them for lashing out.
but let’s be honest here. we have all heard these points and most of us have already made up our minds about it.
on the radio I heard two scholars discussing recent polls that reveal a surprisingly strong level of support for Hamas among gazans even now, despite the level of backlash that has resulted
That’s what trauma does to you. Initially, support for Hamas had dwindled before October 7th, but after you literally drop bombs and bombs on people until they have to carry whatever is left of their children in blankets and plastic bags, well…
When IDF wins? They could have done this years ago with Hamas started their raine of terror over Israel following Israel trying to do a good will gesture in Gaza. Instead Israel agreed to ceasefire after ceasfire that Hamas continously broke with thousands of rockets fired at civilians. This last massacre by Hamas was simply the straw that broke the camel’s back.
You know why Hamas are fighting? Because their goal is to murder every jew they can. They don’t want peace, they want blood.
Calling Hamas a resistance faction is like calling the Klan an equal rights organization.
When mass demonstrations break out under your rule under the tag “Bedna Na3iish!”, or, “WE WANT TO LIVE!”, you are not an organization acting in the interests of those people.
These monsters are literally the ones who caused the Arab Spring remix of “I can’t breathe!” to happen, calling them the resistance to Israel instead of the equal partner to the oppression of the Palestinian people they are is offensive to the nth degree and reeks of redwashed white savior westsplaining.
Was Native American raids on “Settlements” terrorism? Was Nat Turner’s rebellion terrorism?
Hamas is evil and the acts they have done are evil. But they weren’t created in a vacuum. Peace and a one or two state solution needs to be agreed apone by all with a right to self determination for the cycle of evil to stop.
Do you like this group of people? If yes, freedom fighters; if not, terrorists
Do you like this state? If yes, government; if not, regime.
I don’t like Hamas. They are nothing more than bigoted murderers. But they are created from a system of hate. This isn’t an argument of viewpoint. It’s just facts
What’s bigoted about them? They want to kill their oppressors they don’t care about race or religion.
“They don’t care about religion” must be the single most misinformed take I’ve heard on this subject. Hamas is an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood. They’re Islamists. What’s next, “critical support for ISIS”?
There’s a church in Gaza full of CHRISTIANS that was shot by who again two days ago? Was it Hamas? Oh no it was the IDF!
Because Hamas fights against oppressive Nazis not people of a different religion.
Native American militias didn’t brutalise Native Americans, much unlike Hamas does to Palestinians.
Uhhhhhh one there was definitely infighting amongst the various tribes. Even during colonial expansion. Two Hamas is doing exactly what the IDF and Israelis government pays them to do.
Uhhhhhh one there was definitely infighting amongst the various tribes.
Irrelevant because Gaza is not different tribes, thus I ignored it. But I bet you felt smart typing that.
Two Hamas is doing exactly what the IDF and Israelis government pays them to do.
Quite an edgelord take but yes they’re oppressing Palestinians, and killed a lot of Israeli leftists, hippie Kibbutz type people actually helping people in Gaza, in their attacks, Kahanites certainly don’t mind that. I don’t think Israel was planning on Hamas having a shot at the Israeli-Saudi rapprochement, though.
This is simply not true. Plenty of natives fought against other natives, whether independently, or with US troops, or for bounties.
Those were generally clashes between different tribes. Hamas is doing internal political oppression, brutalising political opponents etc.
You know it’s whitesplaining because their justification to keep doing it is to tell the Palestinian telling them to fucking stop is to admit that all PoC militant movements look the same to them.
Hey shithead, Nat Turner and Settlement raiders weren’t killing more of their own through oppressive crackdowns against any dissent at all than enemy combatants in “brave resistance against the white man!”
I bet you’d call the Viet Cong terrorists during the Vietnam war too lol.
This is similar to that in some regards too; similar guerilla tactics, and they’re also fighting to drive away an occupying force and reunify their country.
Their attack on Oct 7 was brutal, but it’s nothing compared to the shit Israel has been repeatedly doing for the last half century.
You know it’s whitesplaining because their response to the Palestinian telling them to stop lionizing Hamas is to admit that all PoC militant groups look the same to them
is this the new line coming out from Israel? It’s not very good is it?
You pretty much have to be braindead to believe any of the propaganda coming out of Israel. Much if it doesn’t make any sense.
Ah yes, a Palestinian citing the fact that Palestinians despise Hamas for being thugs who kill more of us than they do the IDF they’re supposedly at war with, that they’re the state which oppresses Palestinians in the name of islamist fundamentalism, and oh yeah, are literally a fucking hand made creation of Israel fully intended to do that because the Fatah were getting too much international recognition, is the new line out of Tel Aviv.
You’re not standing the Army of North Vietnam, you’re stanning the fucking Khmer Rouge.
You’re throwing your sympathies onto the mad dogs set loose onto the Palestinian people by the Israeli Kissinger set, all because white westerners evidently can’t tell the difference between one bandalier wearing PoC and the next, even when one is very obviously spending 90% of their efforts on murdering the PoC they’re supposedly “liberating.”
No, this is what happens when you give them an excuse.
There is never an excuse for blatant warcrimes.
First of all, Hamas is a terrorist organization and I fully support Israel in removing it. It definitely is not a resistance group.
However, Israel has to change the way they approach the problem. Especially limiting shenanigans like this one and using stupid bombs.
Executions ≠ shenanigans. Are you fucking kidding?
Edit: typo
Those darn Israelis and their ethnic cleansing shenanigans.
Zionism is a mental illness at this point.
The constant attacks against Israel and it’s increasing isolation only probs Zionists right. Jews can only trust themselves for their own defense and need a state for that (that’s what Zionism is). People like you feed Zionism everyday.
You’re conflating Jews with an extremist ideology that can only seem to exist through apartheid.
Based on your comment, can I ask what would be your solution the whole Palestine-Israel conflict?
Trials in the Hague followed by imprisonment of all those guilty of war crimes. At this point that Includes most IDF members, their leaders, and the government.
Actually bring consequences to bear and let other Israelis know that this isn’t acceptable. Israel also needs to be cut off from the teat of the American military industrial complex.
Same standards for Hamas, but that’s a much smaller number.
Any further sabre rattling is met with quick and strong sanctions.
Basically the UN needs to do it’s job, but that needs America not to veto.
I’m not the person you’re talking to but as far as i can see the only way to go is one state solution.
Ones terrorist group is another’s resistance heroes. Which is which very much depends on the side you’re sitting at.
Hamas is indeed a terror group and should be removed but it’s hard not to see your bias. In sheer numbers, the IDF has killed multiples of what Hamas killed, in cruelty they’re really the same, and Hamas has the “excuse” of 70 years or so of oppression, murder, theft, etc by the Israeli side, the IDF doesn’t have that excuse.
The IDF is a terrorist organisation too and the only difference is that the IDF is state sanctioned and managed, whereas Hamas is not.
You, however, call what is starting to look like a genocide “shenanigans” that should be better managed whereas you outright call Hamas a terrorist group. Bias much?
Hey don’t dare to call Hamas as cruel as the IDF. They don’t torture their hostages nor shoot children. Nor do they try to kill people from other religions such as Christians living in Gaza nor do they try to steal other people’s land.
They resist a genocidal Nazi regime and sometimes don’t do it the neatest way but from their position of fighting against their oppressors they hold pretty high moral standards.
Hamas is infinitely humane than the IDF.
Was Native American raids on “Settlements” terrorism? Was Nat Turner’s rebellion terrorism?
Hamas is evil and the acts they have done are evil. But they weren’t created in a vacuum. Peace and a one or two state solution needs to be agreed apone by all with a right to self determination for the cycle of evil to stop.
It’s time to put in a UN peacekeeping force and a transitional government for a single state solution. Israel has beyond lost it’s moral high ground and should be treated like any other colonial remnant in the post colonial world.
You can’t kill a terrorist group. The US spent the last 20 years proving that. You can only defend yourself and reform people/institutions to invalidate the ideology.
All israel would need to do for Hamas to die out is not commit genocide or ethnically cleanse Palestinians and occupy their land.
But people here forget that that’s literally what israel is about.
When Hamas attacked I commented Israel would lash out with it’s usual fervor, making sure that any Palestinians that didn’t support Hamas wouldn’t have a choice. And that the US world would back Israel, providing more ammunition to the Muslim extremists in the middle east to want to continue to fight the US. And Israel working at that time to a potential deal actually worked out with Saudi Arabia would get smashed. Hamas played the world like a fucking fiddle and literally everyone danced along with the tune.
I’m glad somebody else sees it, too. The Oct. 7th attack doesn’t make any sense, except to provoke Israel to overreact and draw other groups and countries into the fight. For fuck’s sake, Osama bin Laden straight-up explained this strategy to the world after the 9/11 attacks.
Shenanigans are things you can film with Yakkity Sax as background music. Boots Randolph doesn’t provide the soundtrack to genocide.
You can’t use that word!!! The Big Brains™ will tell you that unless Israel is targeting every single Palestinian on earth then it’s not genocide!
/Wrist
Get fucked shitbag
Haha murdering civilians is good!
Israel seems to think so
Bad Israel and their shenanigans genocide
Bad Israel and their shenanigans genocide
They are are a resistance group, but that’s not really imoortant: I agree that Israel is justified in getting rid of them. What isn’t justified is almost everything they’ve done to achieve that aim.
They have nothing in common with a resistance group. They are just brutal terrorists who have been terrible both to Israel and Gaza, as well. Just look at how much money were they getting and see how it ended.
Israel has done war crimes, so it’s logical to condemn them for these actions. I believe they should have kept the approach from the beginning when they were precisely targeting the most dangerous buildings because Hamas was still a threat.
Exactly like the IRA which Britain called terrorists and many others called resistance fighters. It’s a matter of perspective.
If someone’s perspective is that Hamas are resistance fighters, then their perspective is just wrong.
Hamas have been leading Gaza for 18 years. They have done nothing good in that time. Whole Gaza is impoverished, conditions are terrible even when IDF don’t attack. In addition, Hamas leaders have share net worth of 11 billion US dollars and I am not even talking about how much money they get. Whilst leaders are extremely rich, their population is starving and is completely dependent on a country they are in a war with.
Apart from that, they have also been terrible to Israel because they launched multiple attacks against them.
So no, Hamas definitely are not freedom fighters but terrorists.
Lol. Just restating your assertion doesn’t make it true. The head of the Turkish state declared that Hamas are resistance fighters. Hamas are resistance fighters by name and are considered so by many in the middle east. The UNs Palestinian expert compared Hamas to the French resistance. You having really big feelings about the situation doesn’t change the facts - it’s ALWAYS the case that one person’s terrorist is another’s freedom fighter. Stomp your feet if it makes you feel better but the world will go on regardless
I definitely don’t have big feelings about this situation. I am just amazed by someone’s positions.
By your logic, we can fully justify that Hitler was a freedom fighter because the person who supports the Nazi dictator has just a different perspective. Facts, however, tell otherwise.
When there is given a substantial proof about something (whether it is Hamas being a terrorist group or about the fact that the Earth is round), people who oppose are just wrong (if they don’t provide a proof which makes “fact” incorrect). It’s dead simple.
When you come to a teacher with incorrectly solved equation, it won’t be you having a different perspective about mathematics than everyone else in the world, you will be just wrong.
Just like Erdogan is wrong right now. But I am not really surprised by that because he, just like Hamas, would love to see ME without Israel at all.
A witness told the Euro-Med monitor, “Thirteen persons were shot dead and several more were critically injured. The Israeli soldiers later threw shells at the women, who were being held in one of the rooms.” Euro-Med Monitor also recorded a rise in field executions following reports of attacks on Israeli military vehicles by Palestinian factions. This suggests that the crimes being reported are part of Israel’s unlawful retaliatory policy against Palestinian civilians, which is in violation of international humanitarian law.
Last month when Hamas terrorists were alleged to be doing the same, according to IDF, American diplomats were pressuring other countries to stop crying fro human rights and just condemn Hamas.
Can we start condemning IDF as a terrorist and genocider organization under control of a rogue government lead by a tyrant now? Just a little bit, please? We will condemn Hamas again, too, if it matters.
We will condemn Hamas again, too, if it matters.
Spoiler: it never mattered.
“Those are Self defence mass executions you fucking antisemite” - Israel probably.
- And subsequently the US
Coward yanks
The UN added, “While in control of the building and the civilians sheltering there, the IDF allegedly separated the men from the women and children, and then shot and killed at least 11 of the men, mostly aged in their late 20’s and early 30’s, in front of their family members.” The UN continued, “The IDF then allegedly ordered the women and children into a room, and either shot at them or threw a grenade into the room, reportedly seriously injuring some of them, including an infant and a child. OHCHR has confirmed the killings at Al Awda building.”
Funny, how you alter the source to make it seem more clear than it is. So here is the part you altered, as reported by the OHCHR:
‘OHCHR has confirmed the killings at Al Awdabuilding, although the details and circumstances of the killings are still under verification.’
Just so you’re clear, the person you replied to directly quoted the article word for word
The articles miss quoted then, and should therefore should be considered heavily biased.
Cool. But you went full tilt accusation at that guy. Like FULL tilt. Just trying to throw some humble your way.
Maybe he should double check if the source he quotes is trustworthy.
There was no made-up quote. The quote was from the article, which left the end off a sentence, saying that the circumstances are under investigation, although the killings have been confirmed. So we have survivors accusing the IDF of slaughtering these people and we have the bodies, but it has not definitively been proven that the people were killed in the way the survivors claim. People can make of that what they will. I’m not trying to twist anything.
Here is the report (PDF):
The correct way to to cite it would be: ‘OHCHR has confirmed the killings at Al Awdabuilding […].’
Its simply wrong to not do it. Especially cutting of the sentence at a ‘,’.
And the last time a crime against humanity was still under investigation – where it was obvious that a rocket hit a hospital, but the exact circumstances where still unclear – it was later confirmed that Hamas hit the hospital.
although the details and circumstances of the killings
Sorry but please read this again. The killings are confirmed, the exact details are under investigation. We have several witnesses attesting to the crimes and a pile of bodies riddled with IDF bullets. The killings are confirmed.
Also when you write articles, you can’t include every detail for brevity. They provided the direct link to the report so you are able to read it yourself.
Killings are confirmed, but no one knows why and how.
No one? “No one” except for the survivors of it.
And the killers, obviously. Both parties directly involved, so their recountings have to be investigated.
So not no one.
When the culture and the legal system that is supposed to punish illegal activity like this, fails to do its job, the message to each individual is clear if not codified.
Behave as you want, because your leadership controls the information coming out to the wider world. Journalists are intimidated and killed.
If you are discovered, you will be quietly reassigned but not actually disciplined. Protests from the UN or other nations are dismissed using various tired phrases or tactics.
If you actually go to trial, the state will bow to pressure from the public and government officials and not sufficiently punish you for even crimes like murder. 18 months for a summary execution that was clearly premeditated and filmed. It doesn’t matter if the prosecution proves mens rea or that you were filmed loading a weapon first before slow walking over to your victim. You will get a downgraded charge to manslaughter and the broad public will push for your immediate release.
Does not surprise me. A military force that stoops so low that they kill white flag wielding civilians in cold blood has already reached rock bottom.
The actual report from the United Nations.
It just says allegations, and it calls on the IDF to investigate.
We investigated ourselves and found we did nothing wrong
When OHCHR drops a report like this it means they consider the allegations to be credible. It’s the same level as the news calling someone an alleged murderer after the guy killed someone on national TV. The report in this case is based on witness statements and an investigation done by a human rights NGO out of Europe.
Thanks for sharing
That’s to the unwavering diplomatic cover and military help of the US, it’s no surprise the far-right racists who are the elected government of Israel are turning the Gaza ghetto into a concentration camp, complete with mass executions.
I mean, even those who dispute them being actual Fascists, can hardly claim to be surprised that a racist ultra-nationalist government whose leader already tried to take over the Judiciary, engaged in an anti-insurgency operation in an occupied territory populated by people from a different etnicity who they call “human animals” and were they’ve already killed tens of thousands - more than 40% of which children - would end up doing mass executions. I mean, these are people who have more than once said they need a Final Solution for Gaza. The only surprising thing here is that they’re still using bullets for it rather than cheaper methods of bulk killing.
The entirelly predictable consequence of the US veto at the UN was exactly to embolden their favorite Fascists to be ever more Fascist, since it made clear to them that the US would always have their back no matter what and any “words of condemnation” by the US Administration were nothing more than hot air.
Make All Gaza Auschwitz hats still available.
“Make Auschwitz Happen Again”
That slogan requires new hats to be made.
Are organizations keeping track of those responsible for war crime trials? I would love to see a list of those responsible, from the lowest ranks to the highest.
I know of this one: https://www.commondreams.org/news/icc-israel
I think that there is more than enough justification for the Arab League to launch a retaliation at this point. I for my part would support it.
The Arab League is as divided as ever
Yep. The Arab league is a joke at this point, it has lost relevancy.
Instead of more slaughter, I’d like to see them provide land and assistance for a new Palestine in a safe place. Instead they won’t even take in refugees.
It would probably be safer for everyone involved for the Israelis to move away instead.
Palestinians should get to keep their land.
If someone broke into my house, I wouldn’t entertain moving out so as to reduce the risk of further violence.
They’re mostly American puppet states such as Saudi and Egypt. Their government doesn’t care about anything but pocketing money. American puppet Sisi was just reelected in Egypt by arresting everyone running against him.
Insurgency groups are growing though since their governments doing nothing really pisses off the civilians. They’re not directly attacking israel but instead attack israeli or American targets close to them
Saudi has America, not the other way around. They knocked America’s towers and they sold them weapons and shook their hands.
No Osama went out of Saudi to Afghanistan to fight the Russians with a group of Saudi Jihad warriors under American support.
The when Russia was defeated in Afghanistan, Palestine cried for help so Osama turned against America which was (and is) massively supporting the Israeli genocide.
The previous Saudi ruler Faisal did turn against America for Palestine and turned off the oil. Then he subsequently was assassinated by his nephew which loved America and had an all American get up. Most likely a CIA intervention but no evidence for it.
Now we have MBS, the current Saudi Leader. Hevonly wants money and will do whatever will give him the most money. He will not wage any wars (for Palestine for example). And his morals change at a whim to whatever provides the most money. He’s basically Mr Crabs.
Wasn’t it the Saudi funded radicalist Islam sect that were behind the attacks?
A Saudi group was but not the government. The Bin Laden family is a rich Saudi family and Osama was just one member. They cannot arrest someone’s entire family for something that a random uncle did on his own
Radical Islam wasn’t behind the attacks. It was vengeance for America ruining many countries and stealing their oil. I’d suggest you read his letter. https://www.newsweek.com/osama-bin-laden-letter-america-transcript-full-1844662
The American people are the ones who pay the taxes which fund the planes that bomb us in Afghanistan, the tanks that strike and destroy our homes in Palestine, the armies which occupy our lands in the Arabian Gulf, and the fleets which ensure the blockade of Iraq," bin Laden wrote. "This is why the American people cannot be innocent of all the crimes committed by the Americans and Jews against us.
(He did use the word Jews instead of Zionists sometimes which was completely wrong and anti semitic)
Just like 7 Oct, 9/11 didn’t just happen because someone picked up a Quran and disliked “freedom” as much as the American government likes people to believe so
The civilians of Saudi are Muslims but their government (the Saud family) are not that interested religious. They just wanna make bank selling oil. Problem is that if they go too much against the will of their population they risk a coup.
MBS still wants to recognize israel in order to make more oil money, but if he does so now without the Palestinians getting any rights back in return, his population (and worst case the military) will turn against him because he’s just a greedy POS without any morals. Last thing he wants is a coup.
Only group doing that are iran proxies or Hamas affiliated terrorists.
Against a country with nukes?
If they’re afraid of attacking a country with nukes, they’ve already lost.
Please provide corroborating story link from a credible source. I will have to remove if the story link can’t be updated to a more reputable source.
It was already removed by a mod and then restored. But yeah, no problem, I will find a better link and switch it now.
Edit: done
WSWS tends to do accurate reporting in my experience.
It was showing as middle of the road for the credibility rating, which on its own is shaky but with a corroborating report strengthens it.
IIRC it’s considered middle of the road due to political leanings rather than the actual credibility of the reporting.
Which, tbh, is sort of concerning when evaluating credibility because political leanings do not change whether a report is factual or not.
Concerning censorship: you’d hope that the mods would at least make their own judgment of the substance of the article in question before crumbling to establishment Overton window policing.
Basically one mod first said they will keep it since it’s factual, then another removed it for reports but put it back up after I spoke to them, and lastly I was asked to switch the link all together.
I guess some people are sending out lots of reports on this even though:
(1) the article was factual (2) the MBFC rating is acceptable (3) The article links to the report it reports on
Which makes me just want to shrug my shoulders…
Political forums often have this cynical undercurrent of concern trolling where the aim is to limit the breadth of sources discussed. No easier way to ‘win’ an argument than illegitimately limiting the facts in play in your favour.
Yeah, I don’t like removing posts for political reasons. On lemmy.ml’s news community we try to allow for a wider range of sources.
Thanks for the tip. I subscribed.
Just for the record, I checked MBFC and it said it’s highly credible and mostly factual. If MBFC is what determines these “truths about credibility”, then I don’t understand why people would report it or on what basis
Hamas is shit for putting terror and attacking Israel above taking care of their own civilians. Israel is shit for mass-execution of innocent civilians.
They’re both shit, but we all know this will only end with Israel exterminating an entire population, which is even shittier.
The only solution I see is to build a wall around the whole area and just waiting for the shooting to stop eventually.
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The reason Hamas is in existence is because their peoples’ homes being taken and the Palestinians being killed constantly, for years. What would you do if your nation has lived in their land for ages, and a people came and took your family homeland and killed your family, and took neighborhoods and whole swaths of areas, then penned you up so that you couldn’t exit or enter your country without their permission…don’t you think you’d rise up with some other warriors to do something, anything? That’s what Hamas is. It is not a terrorist organization to go out and cause terror and trouble. It is the fighting representative of a beaten people.
It is not a terrorist organization to go out and cause terror and trouble.
Did you not notice the events that started this recent shit? Hamas certainly engages in terrorism, as does the IDF.
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Technically, Hamas aren’t Palestinian in origin to begin with, they’re from a group that once controlled Egypt and their power over Gaza Strip was maintained by the Israeli Government via various means including directly being funded by them and neighboring nations. So, it isn’t their people. The don’t give a fuck if Palestine faces genocide, never have.
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Nah bro Hamas is an organization. From Egypt.
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If Greece sent radicalized people to the USA and created an explicitly radical Greek organization a few decades ago and somewhere inbetween they changed their name, then yes it would be exactly like that.
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But it is a both sides situation. Both sides have the same goal. Externinating the other. One side is just much more powerful.
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Why not? It’s the one fundamental differences when comparing this conflict with the Nazi extermination of jews (and others).
The jews didn’t massacre German civilians before their attempted annihilation.
It’s not much of a difference, in the entire score of things, but both Hamas and the idf have blood on their hands. Neither have done things benificial to the Palestinian people. The October attack was a strategic mistake of the highest order.
At the time support for the Netanyahu regime was falling, people were demonstrating. They had literally nothing to gain. They actually played right into bibi’s hand.
Not that I approve of the Israeli reaction, it’s horrible and indeed a case study on the banality of evil. It is completely outside of all proportions. To say that only one side is to blame, is wrong. Without oct 7 this would never have happened. To deny that you would have to prove that it was a false flag attack.
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I do get the analogy of the Warsaw ghetto, I’ve used the same analogy before.
But the relationship between hamas and the Israeli governement is very curious. If say I’m not on the both sides kind of thing, but on the ‘one of three’. The Palestinian people are suffering under the war mongering of both hamas and the idf. Just like not one hundred procent of Israelis are behind the actions of the idf, most Palestinian people aren’t responsable for the actions of Hamas.
It’s way more complicated than the binary issue you lot try to make it off it and frankly that is tiring and obtuse.
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I’m not disputing that that’s the case. But simplifying a conflict that is almost a hundred years old into a binary blame model is silly.
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ESH
That’s eleven men.
This is bad and I don’t want to justify or defend it. But this does not indicate mass executions of civilians as policy. It could well be a platoon leader who overstepped authority.
As the report states, the UN is calling for a formal investigation. As well they should.
What is the definition of a mass execution or massacre to you?
When I responded, the submission went to the World Socialist Web Site. I linked above to the actual report. If you read the actual report, you see that eleven civilians were murdered. And that’s terrible. The report rightly calls for an investigation.
You ask, what is a mass execution or massacre? Well, what happened here is unlawful killings. It’s a massacre. But my point was that an investigation was needed to determine if these killings were the result of Israeli policy or an event on the ground out of the hands of actual policymakers. Which would look something a whole lot more like the Katyn Massacre, where Soviet troops murdered 22,000 people in Poland during WWII.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre
This doesn’t diminish those eleven lives. But that’s the difference between state policy and a military commander gone rogue.
When I responded, the submission went to the World Socialist Web Site. I linked above to the actual report. If you read the actual report, you see that eleven civilians were murdered. And that’s terrible. The report rightly calls for an investigation.
Yeah, no need to explain that, it was well understood the first time.
This doesn’t diminish those eleven lives. But that’s the difference between state policy and a military commander gone rogue.
I don’t know if we can assume that anymore. The whole IDF is the former. Many Palestinians aside from those died in custody in circumstances the IDF wants to investigate, and then these 11, and in the upcoming months we will hear about a lot more.
You ask, what is a mass execution or massacre?
You didn’t answer the question. Your point was clear from the first comment I responded to. There was no need for over explaining it all.
I suggest you Google mass killing and massacre and summary executions. “Mass” doesn’t imply thousands of people necessarily.
I’m not debating your point on mass executions. Even or 22,000. They’re bad.
But if you claim these were murdered as policy set by top leadership, you need evidence. Not speculation.
The evidence is the collection of IDF crimes committed every day. Sorry the list is too long to put in one post. I suggest you use Google.
No. That is not relevant to this crime. At best, it is circumstantial.
What is needed are documents from official sources. Witness testimony from within the high command attesting to orchestration of this crime. Actual specifics.
You are on a witch hunt.
I don’t think any of what you are saying here is a logical conclusion to “11 men”
Yes, just a completely consistent series of platoon leaders who systemically “overstep authority”. These are fully and totally autonomous actions… that are culturally mandated. Why everyone is so upsets?
I assume some people think MASS KILLING and EXECUTION are just shocking words being used, when instead they just describe the ugly reality.
