The Medical University of South Carolina initially said it wouldn’t be affected by a law banning use of state funds for treatment “furthering the gender transition” of children under 16. Months later, it cut off that care to all trans minors.
One Saturday morning in September 2022, Terrence Steyer, the dean of the College of Medicine at the Medical University of South Carolina, placed an urgent call to a student. Just a year prior, the medical student, Thomas Agostini, had won first place at a university-sponsored event for his graduate research on transgender pediatric patients. He also had been featured in a video on MUSC’s website highlighting resources that support the LGBTQ+ community.
Now, Agostini and his once-lauded study had set off a political firestorm. Conservative activists seized on one line in particular in the study’s summary — a parenthetical noting the youngest transgender patient to visit MUSC’s pediatric endocrinology clinic was 4 years old — and inaccurately claimed that children that young were prescribed hormones as part of a gender transition. Elon Musk amplified the false claim, tweeting, “Is it really true that four-year-olds are receiving hormone treatment?” That led federal and state lawmakers to frantically ask top MUSC leaders whether the public hospital was in fact helping young children medically transition. The hospital was not; its pediatric transgender patients did not receive hormone therapy before puberty, nor does it offer surgical options to minors.
Dear people who tell LGBT+ people that we shouldn’t care what some right-wing nutters think:
This is why we have to care. What they think does affect us, unfortunately.
Someone here the other day had the gall to tell me that Trump didn’t do anything to oppress LGBT+ people.
They were strangely silent after I showed them this: https://www.hrc.org/news/the-list-of-trumps-unprecedented-steps-for-the-lgbtq-community
Gaslight <–
Obstruct
Project
Makes a shit ton more sense than Grand Old Party.
I was going to participate in a navy program that would put me through med school. Then Trump decided to ban folks like me from the military.
As an older trans person, things were better for us before he was in office. It’s exhausting hearing one’s existence debated every fucking day, by folks who have zero idea what they’re talking about. It wasn’t illegal for me to piss at work in 2015, it is now.
I’m an adult trans man who has been on testosterone for more than a decade now, and it’s a fight to stay on my medication. I almost want to live in this fantasy world where doctors just hand out hormones and blockers like candy. But most doctors are terrified - all it takes is your hospital ending up on LibsOfTiktok or something and it’s time for the bomb threats. My medical provider is one of the few that hasn’t left my state, and if he leaves I’m fucked.
Man, I’m sorry to hear that. Absolutely fucked that our medical care and career prospects and even just taking a shit can be destroyed because some Evangelical assholes somewhere feel weird in their pants about us or are so piss scared of their kids learning that they have to indoctrinate them
Sorry, that’s so wack. I hope your situation remains stable.
These are stupid people.
There’s an absolute moron down the road here from me who, despite it being 2023, has a large sign on his business (a small factory) that says “Trump 2020: For All Workers.”
Dude spent four years turning federal worker protections into a regular horror show. Every couple of weeks, some basic worker protection or another came under attack. I saw it for myself.
My dude, Trump tried to bring back asbestos.
Sounds like the business owner probably knows Trumps is bad for workers, but good for business.
Until he becomes a business owner who Trump owes money to, and then it’s all LeopardsAteMyFace.
It’s always “just ignore it, words can’t hurt you” until people listen to those words and vote/take action.
No, words matter very much, actually. In fact, I would say words, and language, is the very basis of our civilization. Without language, there would have been nothing.
I wonder what the same people criticizing trans health care as “mutilation of children” think of intersex babies having genital surgery forced upon them to align their genitals with gender binary ideals.
And just before anyone has a chance to say it, trans healthcare for teens is okay despite them not being able to consent because if they don’t choose quickly then one of the options is going to be forced upon them.
It’s like a child standing on train tracks with a train speeding toward them and the child expressing that they’d like to get out of the way while people telling them “No! You’re not old enough to make that decision!”
Or how about just circumcision? How is that ok?
It’s not, but it happens to males, so no one cares. I certianly wasn’t consulted about it, and have only been ridiculed when I’ve suggested it should have been my choice.
You’re ridiculed because everyone knows that 99% of men wouldn’t choose to be circumcised if they had to do it as an adult. Yet because we do it to babies it’s fine.
Specious.
They were ridiculed because it is easier to make fun of the person causing ethical discomfort than it is to sincerely contemplate one’s beliefs.
I would choose it. Chose it for my kids. So…
wow we found one in the wild (no offense). But seriously I would like to know, why not give your kids the chance to decide for themselves as well?
A number of reasons. The whole “well just wash” thing kind of presumes a certain quality of life and access to hygiene that isn’t guaranteed–my doctor’s opinion on this was informed by his experience in the jungle in Vietnam; it is more hygienic that washing, as obviously soap and water doesn’t remove all bacteria and fungus that live on the skin, especially in folds or crevices; it’s a surface that goes right over the top of an open orifice, so the risk of infection really isn’t something to leave to chance as to whether or not you’ll finish the day with a hot shower and soap; adult circumcision requires open wound care protocol, which carries its own risk of infection, in a very sensitive area, prone to healing complications, whereas babies have veritable superhuman healing powers and it heals in a few days with Vaseline; as a baby it’s a basically an outpatient dermatological procedure, as an adult it’s an actual surgery, with much greater risks of complications. It’s a no brainer; it was recommended by every doctor we asked, who all considered it a no brainer. I know you can find anything online but the science and weighing of risks on this is makes the decision pretty clear.
E: Dumb, anti-acience people are downvoting this. Apparently they know more than doctors.
The scientific evidence supporting circumcision is actually fairly unconvincing. It’s still invasive, medically unnecessary surgery, that kills ~100 babies every year. It’s also proven that their brains are impacted by the procedure and show signs of PTSD.
Literally no other health board except American ones recommend circumcision. Canada, the Netherlands, the UK, Germany, all of these countries recommend strongly against circumcision as a therapeutic treatment, as far less invasive and much more effective options exist to achieve similar or far better health benefits. Even having basic hygiene and washing your penis erases any claimed health benefits from circumcision (which were already incredibly minor). It’s literally only potentially beneficial if you don’t observe basic hygiene.
It’s also fairly unethical to make decisions regarding what is effectively mostly cosmetic surgery on a baby boy that can not consent to the procedure.
Literally almost every mammal evolved to have some kind of penile sheath. If it was truly detrimental to have a foreskin, it is highly unlikely that would have happened.
Trans women certainly care. We didn’t ask for a lot of things, but circumcision still adds insult to injury.
The awful truth is that few people want to address fucked up shit. Almost everyone suffers from something forced upon us for no good reason, so if anything we need to support one another and work to end this crap.
It isn’t. We should stop that too.
It’s only ok if it’s done without consent, don’t you know? /s
Intersex genital surgery and circumcision should not occur on children. Adults should be free to choose what they want done to their bodies.
Well they usually include exceptions or mandates for intersex “correction” surgeries in those laws so yeah that’s that.
And besides, the Hospital in the article doesn’t even do surgeries on minors, only hormone treatment. There is no mutilation involved whatsoever.
And still circumcision is ok
Obviously, that’s got the approval from God™
It’s like a child standing on train tracks with a train speeding toward them and the child expressing that they’d like to get out of the way while people telling them “No! You’re not old enough to make that decision!”
Awful analogy, even if your point is sound. We should focus on the topic at hand, instead of trying to pivot to literal life-or-death analogies. It’s a tactic people use to derail discussion instead of engage in it. Now instead of focusing on the topic at hand, we need to focus on how accurate your analogy is. It’s more fruitful to just leave the analogy at home and try to have your relevant arguments stand on their own.
Lots of people on these forums will disagree, though.
It is, in many cases, a life or death situation; maybe not as abrupt as a train hitting someone, but suicide among trans youth who are being prevented from transitioning, essentially being told that they are to stupid to know what they want, is terrifyingly high.
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
The child would have to wake up and stand before the shit slide every morning.
I am amazed that health companies are not penalized for discrimination on which human beings they treat. Sorry, but that makes no sense.
the neat part is the American health care system always finds a new way of disappointing everyone.
what’s truly upsetting is that the few trans people that may need to go to that hospital for the fastest health care are going to find out the shitty way they’ve been blacklisted.
there is probably a good legal case against this misinformation but how many trans have the time and energy to fight backdoor politics?
there is probably a good legal case against this misinformation but how many trans have the time and energy to fight backdoor politics?
That’s why I give money to the ACLU
Yeah exactly, I’m trying to afford rent and stave off burnout too. I spent years doing activism but I’m almost 30 and I’m exhausted. And even when we do fight we’re a third of a percent of the population and economically disadvantaged before you take into account the expenses of transitioning (fortunately I’m past most of it, but spending my first years out of college saving up for a $20000 surgery was a serious financial hit)
And all this for what? My state government doesn’t give half a shit what we want. I’ll keep trying to vote them out but they realized they don’t even actually have to do what courts say. The courts won’t actually punish the legislature, just the state coffers if that.
Have they really been ‘blacklisted’, or are they just unable to get certain procedures done?
deleted by creator
Fucking THANK YOU. Louder for the folks in the back, pleaae
It can be both. There are cases of paramedics refusing to treat trans women, to the point where they die.
Doctors will also assume that any medical issue you have is due to your hormones and not treat you. I passed a kidney stone on my own because I was hurting in the “wrong” place.
Removed by mod
Penalized? The people in goverment are bigots who want the hospitals to discriminate.
There are constitutional guarantees that preclude it. Just needs someone to take it to court.
And a court and justice system that cares and is not part of the corrupt state that enabled this in the first place
We have Two SCOTUS justices who committed perjury during their confirmation hearings and another who has been caught accepting bribes from petitioners of the court. You’re putting an awful lot of faith in the court.
Can you tell me what you think these guarantees are?
I think it’s because people view hormonal treatment and sex changes as different than treatment for disease or injury.
They probably view it more as cosmetic treatment, like plastic surgery.
Well if you decide that it’s religion you can hurt people by deciding that their medical care isn’t something your god approves of. And no you don’t need to find sufficient text or historical justification
Wasn’t there a case before SCOTUS where they held only “closely held beliefs” (or some shit) was allowed?
I can’t find the actual case or verbage but basically it made it possible to force, say, spaghetti monster believers to adopt laws against their beliefs. Essentially paving the way for Christian nationalism.
I wouldn’t be surprised if health insurance companies in China would pull the same crap.
Removed by mod
Ah, but you see he can hide it behind “just asking a question”.
Such as, is it really true that Elon Musk raped and murdered a 12 year old girl in 2008 in Texas?
FTFY: Some people say how high.
The rest of us tell the idiot to go forth and multiple.
deleted by creator
This is the private free market at work.
Fuck the free market
Free market gave us: lead pipes, lead paint, leaded gasoline, asbestos, PFCs (forever chemicals) in water, chat for the kids to play on (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chat_(mining)), and countless (literally) other grievances all so people richer than us could be even richer.
What’s not to like?
Long term thinking is what is needed, the reality is that many things like space travel and even construction would be much better if we all recognised that everyone deserves access to have a holistic understanding of things, not like how it is now with engineering theory in the West, half baked practicals, and the flip side of the coin over in the East with lots of hardware availability, old textbooks, but next to no design software or systems level engineering to incorporate with. Sure it’s great to differentiate skill sets but some systems are like Babylon, the less holistic and overlapping knowledge we have, the more communication issues and short term design problems we all come across
Laws banning transition are the ‘private free market’. Got it.
What?
That’s kind of how I feel.
I was saying that the hospital succumbing to financial pressure is peak free market
The hospital was not; its pediatric transgender patients did not receive hormone therapy before puberty, nor does it offer surgical options to minors.
Yo, puberty is still pretty young; late elementary school or early middle school.
Horrible. I don’t necessarily advocate for transition as I’m personally neutral on the issue, but I will stand up for anyone seeking medical information or service, this is no longer the cave man times where men bricked each other with boulders when someone was hurt
Treating them with/for what?
Did you read more than the headline and still need to ask that?
They’re willfully using vague language because they know talking specifics weakens their argument.
It’s a pretty common tactic these days, so I always ask for specifics or point out that they are not being given.
The headline is misleading because trans teens can still be treated.
Why is asking a question suddenly “amplifying the claim”? Could they not just have answered the question? It would, in my opinion, be especially interesting to know what the 4 year old “transgender patient” was treated for.
Sealioning, harassment where a person asks questions, demands debate, or requests evidence while feigning ignorance and pretending to be civil. Elon and fascists like him don’t care about finding the truth or having an informed opinion. They want to confirm their view of “trans bad” by focusing on misrepresented half truths or outright lies. They ask questions and don’t care for a response, because they want to promote the idea that woke adults are transing kids. It’s bad faith bullshit.
They did answer the question, but the transphobes didn’t listen to it. A 4 year old visited the clinic. Nothing was said about treatment. The 4 year old could have been sent away for all we know. The most that would have happened would be discussions about the kid’s future when they do reach puberty, letting the parents know what that care would look like. Plus, the kid having documented trans identification so young will make a stronger case for them getting approved for care in the future.
The worst part about this nonsense is that allowing trans youth to have their preferred puberty would address the sports issue. If a trans girl experiences female puberty and not male puberty, she’ll have no physical advantage over cis girls in sports. The permanent increases in height and bone structure that might affect performance in some sports wouldn’t happen to her. However, it is crystal clear based on literal statements made by anti-trans activists that they don’t care about sports integrity or protecting kids. They want trans people gone, and they will use state violence to keep us from living our lives
Look truth be told, it’s understandable that many people may not like transition or certain transgender individuals, but that is no reason to deny services to them as a blanket policy
I don’t even find it justifiable to not “like” transition. For many trans people, transitioning is less of a choice and more of a required action. I personally didn’t choose to be trans and didn’t have the luxury of staying in the closet. I thought I could delay coming out, but I couldn’t. Many trans people would become suicidally depressed if forced to detransition or prevented from transitioning. Some trans people could live the rest of their lives as cis, but a ton can’t. Not liking transition is like not liking giving an antidote to someone that got poisoned. You can wish that people never get poisoned in the first place, but can’t hate the antidote itself.
It’s a fantasy to believe that we have total conscious control of our actions and desires. Anyone who’s become attracted to someone they don’t want to be attracted to should know this. “Why must I fall for such a shitty person?”
Medicalization of trans children, even those who are entering puberty or beyond, is a bad idea. There needs to be more research on the safety of puberty blockers and cross sex endogenous hormones for long term medical outcomes including cancer and heart disease risks. Once you are an adult, sure, do whatever you want to your body; but there is a different ethical consideration for minors.
Literal ignorance. There are already studies.
“GnRHa treatment did not seem to have a particularly adverse effect on reproductive function or bone growth.”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4342775/
Puberty blockers only with social transition until age 18 are the standard of care given to the trans girl I grew up with 30 years ago. She didn’t start exogenous hormones or surgery until she was a legal adult. None of this is new and the people you’re listening to are literally just making things up.
Imagine everything about you is exactly the same, but you were born with the wrong body parts and as a result your had to spend your entire childhood pretending to be the opposite sex. It’s not just some adult choice you make like going to college, it’s you.
Your points are valid, but there are moral implications to both sides and it’s disgusting how ignorant and close-minded idiot politicians and billionaires like Musk are about it while actual medical professionals are trying their best to navigate these complex situations. No science will ever change their minds, this is an extension of an ongoing campaign against all trans people, equating them with “groomers” and dudes trying to sneak into girl locker rooms or win sports games. More distractions from the real enemies of human decency and free societies.
If I were a child now, I would potentially be pushed to be trans or NB. I was a tomboy child with a solid interest in math and science. I had a fraught childhood with a medical surgery pushed on me (it could have waited). If I were presented with this idea, maybe I would have thought it fits me, especially because at least certain segments of the trans theory/argument seems to hinge on enforcing gender roles. Turns out, I’m just a woman in STEM.
If I were a child now, I would potentially be pushed to be trans or NB.
No that’s not how that works. People aren’t “pushed” into becoming trans, let alone into a medical transition. Trans people, especially trans youths, usually have to fight tooth and nail to have their identities taken seriously, and even harder to access healthcare.
especially because at least certain segments of the trans argument seems to hinge on enforcing gender roles.
This is just such tired nonsense. I have never met a community more supportive of people breaking gender norms than transgender and non-binary people.
Any promotion of the concept of gender and gender roles in schools is a bad idea in my opinion. The “genderbread person” that pops up is one instance, and it’s discussion of gender includes gender roles: those are societal expectations of actions and characteristics.
Regarding gender roles, how do you respond to the current zeitgeist that asks if gender nonconforming women in literature and film are in fact trans? For example, Jo March in Little Women, and Mulan.
Any promotion of the concept of gender and gender roles in schools is a bad idea in my opinion.
Gender is a concept that exists. That kids will interact with throughout their lives. They deserve to be equipped with the information that helps them makes sense of that.
The “genderbread person” that pops up is one instance, and it’s discussion of gender includes gender roles: those are societal expectations of actions and characteristics.
It doesn’t include gender roles in any version that I have seen.
The closest I’ve seen it get to gender roles is “gender expression”, which it touches on to explicitly separate the concept of gendered expression, from gender identity and biological sex.
In other words, it does the exact opposite of the thing you fear that it does. Its entire purpose is to state that the things you described about yourself earlier, such as being a tomboy, are separate from gender identity and biological sex. That being a tomboy, or having interests that are stereotypically gendered, DO NOT make you that gender.
Regarding gender roles, how do you respond to the current zeitgeist that asks if gender nonconforming women in literature and film are in fact trans? For example, Jo March in Little Women, and Mulan.
Those can be interesting conversations even if the answer at the end is “they’re still cisgender”. Cisgender people have been writing gender into stories for a long time, and a lot of those stories do end up have themes very relatable for trans people. Relooking at media through a queer lens is not harmful.
Do you also feel it is wrong to talk about homosexuality in school in any form? You support “don’t say gay” laws? How about discussion of racism? Or mental health issues?
You assume so much. Homosexuality is real. I do not support “don’t say gay” laws. Sexuality and gender do not equate.
Yes, racism is real and should be discussed. Mental health should be discussed. In fact I have historically been a big advocate for discussing it among the interns and early career staff at my workplace.
Despite the narrative that all people who question the current trans identity theory are conservative idiots, there are people who are actual scientists, feminists, and others who care about society that don’t agree with all of it. Shouting them down is only going to create an oppressive echo chamber.
I didn’t assume you were a right wing nut which is why I asked about these other topics.
Gender dysphoria is no less real. People experience it. I’m sorry to hear you disbelieve them. It’s the same kind of energy as a white person telling a black person they’re imagining racism. Or a person telling a depressed person they should just cheer up or that depression doesn’t exist.
Not talking about gender dysphoria doesn’t make it go away, though. Trans people existed before it was a common topic (like when I was growing up in the 70s). Just like gay people existed before it was talked about much.
Talking about a gender dysphoria does not somehow alter a kid’s sense of self even if they are a kid. You may argue “so many kids are coming out as trans”.
Prevalent bigotry, hatred, and even offhand dismissal (like you’re doing) tends to pressure people deny their identities (eventually they will have to face it, like my college friend, who came out as trans decades later) or tends to pressure them into staying in the closet. But when society becomes more accepting you find more people comfortable with being open about who they are.
We saw this happen with homosexuality between the 70s and now. We see the same thing with gender identity/expression. We find more kids are comfortable coming out as gay. Likewise more kids feel safe coming forward with gender dysphoria. Despite people trying to tell them they’re not actually experiencing what they’re experiencing. (You’re not depressed just a little sad; cheer up!)
And by the way, delaying puberty isn’t done willy nilly, it’s reserved for the most extreme cases of gender dysphoria and where entering puberty causes substantial additional distress following established guidelines.
If you don’t want to shout down scientists then tell me why it is ok for politicians to shut down actual medical treatment governed by medical ethics and protocols?
If scientific consensus comes up with better treatments, let’s use them. If they find issues with current treatments, act accordingly.
But keep politicians out of it and leave it to physicians and medical research and parents.
It’s a flat out lie that kids are pushed to be trans.
Most kids with gender dysphoria are lucky if their parents even support them at all. If anything the parents push kids away from it, as is the case with my kid’s friend. In the worst cases parents even reject the kid altogether. They think they’re doing the best thing for their kid but in fact it is exactly the opposite.
Trans kids often face bigotry and persecution and violence. And you think most parents, knowing this, would want that for their kid unless it was obviously what the kid wants??
Also keep in mind that just because you were a tomboy but not trans doesn’t mean gender dysphoria doesn’t exist.
Literal right-wing propaganda. “ThEy PuSh KiDs To Be TrAnS.” You’re a disgusting person.
Edit: This user is also a mod on a lemmy.world community! Wtf. Remove this fucker.
Edit: This user is also a mod on a lemmy.world community! Wtf. Remove this fucker.
It has like 11 monthly members and isn’t related to anything harmful, I don’t think it’s that much of an issue for admins to step in.
True, it would be no loss if they remove that mod
deleted by creator
How would you be “pushed?” Who would do it?
What does a random surgery being “pushed” on you have to do with this conversation? Did it have anything to do with gender? What do you mean by this?
I’m asking all these questions in attempt to discuss this in good faith.
I think it “turns out” you’re just an anti-trans liar making things up to support your bigotry. Just stop.
Imagine being this stupid. Well, I suppose you don’t have to.
Consider talking to a trans person and how they found their identity, or learning more about the ways gender identity is expressed or how gender influences society, or maybe just touch grass every once in a while instead of being a shitty person pretending to know something you clearly don’t.
Why does every major medical organization and over a million doctors disagree with you?
Why does every major medical organization and over a million doctors disagree with you?
No, not really and I don’t know what you base that on.
KI, the largest medical research center in Sweden and one of the largest in the world did a systemic study on the research basis of hormone treatment and concluded that treating gender dysphoria in children should only be considered experimental.
Ah yes, you have one ‘health board’ that was conspicuously taken over by TERF ideologues, which then started spouting junk science and ignoring the actual medical professionals. That totally trumps all the reputable medical orgs.
Complete tinfoil hat but you tell yourself whatever you need to get trough the day.
I point to research, you point to whatever the fuck that is. I expected more from this community tbh but shit…
Yes really. Your study suggests doing more studies, not that the effects were negative (because if they were, the conclusion would be no further studies.) At the end of the paper, it also pointed out newer studies not included in the 196 studies out of the 10,000 it pretends to have looked it that found the benefits did exist (nd even then, it really only looked at a couple dozen studies exhaustively).
The biases that your study shows are known, and fucking obvious to anyone that has talked to a trans person once in their lifetime: There aren’t many long-term studies. This is due to obvious reasons, like discrimination, lack of support, and higher chance of being murdered, which most people don’t want. The study also seemed to show that the bone density issue wasn’t as pronounced as some nay-sayers seem to think, but they bury that in the data analysis and hide behind a more hardline in the synopsis. Additionally, you can’t really do a randomized approach in this case because of fucking ethical concerns! Obviously!!! Randomly giving out hormones seems like a bad idea, both to people that want it and people that don’t!
But, you don’t really give a shit because you didn’t read the study, and also you hate trans people, and that’s what you actually care about.
Data on the effects on psychosocial health are lacking but there is some evidence that hormonal treatment may impact on bone maturation. The researchers conclude that hormonal treatment of gender dysphoria in this age group should be regarded as experimental treatment rather than standard procedure.
It’s the second paragraph, read the damn thing.
How long did it take you to spell out this nonsense anyway? Probably longer than reading the article…
Also I don’t hate trans people, that’s just your small-minded assumption you ignorant fuck. I linked an article, that’s it.
I did read the thing, and explained how they pointed out the bone density in the data, but obviously, you only read the second paragraph.
But, you’re right, I didn’t read the entire thing, so could you quote section 3.5 under Results for me, since I’m obviously unable to read? It’s the one that might be labeled “Bone health outcomes” if I could read. Assuming that I can’t read, and looking at the studies examined, it appears that the loss of bone density is pretty inconclusive, especially when hormones are taken earlier, but there were two studies that showed a minor decrease in bone density in transwomen when using puberty blockers, by a smaller margin than I had previously thought (you can read studies 21 and 22 so my illiteracy doesn’t affect you.)
Or would you like to quote the portion about Psychosocial and mental health under section 3.3? What the study shows seems to be that 4 of the 6 studies had some improvement (14, 15, 16, 17), though it should be noted that study 19 was about testing fucking brain activations (no decline in that!) and not about mental health, and study 18 was about initial reduction in symptoms from their first appointment, so really, 4 out of 4 studies showed an improvement.
Dipshit.
lmao, dude, you’re just rambling, wtf are you talking about You said:
Why does every major medical organization and over a million doctors disagree with you?
I pointed to a comprehensive study that shows that it is clearly not the case.
I pointed out the studies flaws because you didn’t read it, can’t interpret it yourself, and are not a doctor. Here is a list of actual major medical organizations that suggest gender-affirming care for trans youth:
American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry American Academy of Dermatology American Academy of Family Physicians American Academy of Nursing American Academy of Pediatrics American Academy of Physician Assistants American College Health Association American College of Nurse-Midwives American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists American College of Physicians American Counseling Association American Heart Association American Medical Association American Medical Student Association American Nurses Association American Osteopathic Association American Psychiatric Association American Psychological Association American Public Health Association American Society of Plastic Surgeons Endocrine Society Federation of Pediatric Organizations GLMA: Health Professionals Advancing LGBTQ Equality National Association of Nurse Practitioners in Women's Health National Association of Social Workers National Commission on Correctional Health Care Pediatric Endocrine Society Society for Adolescent Health and Medicine World Medical Association World Professional Association for Transgender HealthAnd if the WPATH didn’t find actual health benefits that outweighed the actual downsides for puberty blockers and hormonal treatments, then they fucking wouldn’t recommend them. This would be obvious to anyone that knew anything.
Where does it say “Medicalization of trans children is a bad idea”? Because I only read that it’s not researched enough and might have reversible side effects.
How do you propose doing research other than through informed consent from willing volunteers? Let alone that this whole chain of events even stemmed from a research paper! How are they supposed to do the research you said they need to do, when they’re actively punished for doing it?
There lies the contradiction. How can there be more studies when everyone is fighting against it? You just said two totally opposing things.
Okay this is where we agree. I would not be against something if it were a matter of holding back basic human curiosity.
I did not. There are many ways the application of hormones can be studied, including to populations who take them for other medical reasons and animal models. The current application of these drugs to children amounts to an wide unregulated medical experiment; typically medical studies require strong oversight from ethics boards.
There are some truly sad stories of childhood detransitioners, like Chloe Cole.
So you’re just making stuff up to get angry about. Big studies show de-transition rates are drastically below rates of regret for most common surgeries, including medically-necessary knee surgery, and cosmetic breast augmentation (which teenage cis girls get, and regret, all the time).
Many de-transtioners are just bullied out of medical care by people like yourself, only to re-transition later. The most common reasons cited for detransition were pressure from a parent (36%), transitioning was too hard (33%), too much harassment or discrimination (31%), and trouble getting a job (29%).
Supporting trans kids is mostly just about clothes/name/pronouns, and the only thing they’re offered is puberty blockers, which were used safely in cisgender children with precocious puberty for decades before people like you started distorting the facts.
You’re just another bigot spreading medical misinformation in a bad-faith attempt to block medical care for a stigmatized minority group, and you should feel bad about it. Shame.
I don’t really buy the ‘more medical research’ argument. When is enough enough? Shouldn’t there already be an abundance of cases where there are issues considering these procedures have been going on for decades?
I do, however, buy the significantly less popular argument that these kids might make the wrong decision and then come to regret it later. This goes both ways.
There is actually a fair amount of trans regret that exists where people who transitioned as adults due to a number of factors have to get over the jealousy and regret that comes from comparing their transitions to the ones that other people experienced with transition during puberty. It’s a thing for sure amongst trans femmes particularly because not passing comes with so many downsides and dangers.
It’s useful to remember that a LOT of care is made to ensure that the choice is made with everybody as informed as they possibly can be which is why puberty blockers are used to buy more time before making a decision what puberty is going to look like. The main team for a trans youth involves a specialist therapist, a social worker, a pediatrician and an endocrinologist but nothing happens if the parent or guardian doesn’t sign off. There is a lot to know which is why if you ever meet someone who transitioned early they know their shit.
Those who do come to regret their transition (which is actually a lot lower than almost any surgery due to the care taken beforehand) are also usually not super bitter. Like they acknowledge that their situation sucks do not get me wrong… But most of them know a lot of other trans people because they reach out to find people in their situation. They also see how those people’s lives have been radically changed for the better by the going through the process. The reason a lot of them don’t speak out is because they would be imperiling something that they know is lifesaving for people they know and they have first hand knowledge about the care that was taken on their behalf.
(Or they were able to somehow get semilegal diy hormones while still a minor)
As for detransitioners, I don’t see that as a good reason for not speaking out (not telling them what to do ofc it’s their decision). But staying quiet opens up more space for people who do claim it ruined their lives. So they speak unopposed and get fox news TV spots and book deals and promote more gatekeeping to protect the children. While afaik in reality most people who regret/detransition do it because of transphobia from their relatives or their workplace or smth
Well that’s just it. If you are miserable because the system doesn’t help you then you go outside the system.
Detransitioners (not ones who temporarily suspend their horomones or goals for medical or life goal reasons like having a kid) are really rare comparatively so even if you know one you’re kind of an outlier, finding a second to compare their experiences against is something you probably have to seek out.
One thing that you get really used to as a trans person is people ignoring what you say and twisting whatever was said to match your point. If you detransition because the social cost was too high chances are also good you don’t want to put yourself in the crosshairs and risk Conservatives quoting everything you say out of context or just be dismissed as “just one crazy’s opinion”.
There’s also an unfair situation inside the community where since people have had the very existence of detransitioners used to do them personal harm by conservatives a lot of people are primed to see detransitioners as a threat. Not all trans folks are saints and fear doesn’t bring out the best in people I’m afraid.
Those who decide to do the whole tv spot book deal thing are those who basically don’t care who they hurt for personal gain. That lack of empathy is in itself a narrowing factor. There isn’t so much a market on the left to be elevated like that because you have way more trans voices making stuff with a range of opinions. People on the left don’t need to be swayed by detransitioners when they already understand trans discrimination and trans joy.
It’s easier to be elevated to the top when you are a basically a super rare prop for someone’s re-election campaign. A lot of the liberal situation isn’t throwing their support unanimously behind trans rights… A lot of them are kind of hoping you forget about trans people because they think that will lose them support so they fronting other issues leaving trans people do their own advocacy.
There’s also an unfair situation inside the community where since people have had the very existence of detransitioners used to do them personal harm by conservatives a lot of people are primed to see detransitioners as a threat. Not all trans folks are saints and fear doesn’t bring out the best in people I’m afraid.
well wouldn’t more visibility for non-regretful detransitioners help with that as well? like a counterexample you can point to when conservatives say it’s a scary irreversible decision that you shouldn’t make unless you’re 146% sure
I wouldn’t imagine that a lot of detransitioners have the energy to advocate. Social transition generally has a hot mess stage where people aren’t really very confident in their transition and you are just clinging to the bricks with splintering fingers trying to get through the hard part of telling everyone what you need. Going through that and then reversing course and doing it a second time probably holds enough social anxiety for several lifetimes on it’s own.
The route of least resistance is to just quietly try and go forward with nobody knowing your history. I would not fault anyone for wanting that.
It’s Also reaaaaaaaaallly rare. Like 2020 in the US there were something around 12,800 gender affirming surgeries done in the US. If the detransition rate is about 1% that is only about 128 people. Of detransitioners studies tend to put those who just found it wasn’t for them (not counting those who found anti-trans sentiments and pressures unbearable and wanted to flee back into the closet where they felt safe) at around 0.04 percent… That’s about… maybe ONE person for everyone who surgically transitioned in the US that year? I dunno how you really count 0.5 of a person so maybe it’s a coin toss?
It’s really scary being that alone as a voice. You are really vulnerable.
Puberty blockers aren’t new drugs. They already have a long history of testing and documentation; we already know their relative safety.
I guess you can’t read
Medical use of puberty blockers has been approved by the FDA and used since 1993… There were trans participants of the original study who were 13 years old during the trial in 1988 which means the first people to receive this as teens are now 48 years old… Also that trial was based on a lot of information we already had on intersex paitents and people with horomone related endocrine disorders.
There is a lot more long term data than you think. This need for “MORE RESEARCH!” ignores what has already done and is just a tactic to move the goal posts so there never is enough reasonable burden of proof.
If we don’t know then isn’t it a coin toss if the adverse effects of the trans healthcare are worse than the adverse effects of not receiving it? Unfortunately we don’t always have 100% knowledge of how things are going to turn out when it comes to health issues and we have to make the best of what we do know. Which should be left to healthcare professionals and their patients to work out together what is best. Not fucking politicians.
There are plenty of studies. The “no studies” thing is a bad faith argument from deliberately misunderstanding the way medical studies work. The theoretical ideal of a double blind study has serious ethical problems when it involves giving a placebo to someone who would be seriously harmed by being denied care, so not all studies are done that way.
Bet you say the same shit about vaccines.
Just report that transphobe. They don’t belong here on Lemmy
Nope, I am provax! Got my flu and COVID shots a few weeks ago.
Ideally you will have received a series of vaccines throughout your lifetime. Anti-science people aren’t truly anti-vax: they’re anti-THIS-vax, like their 18th vaccination is somehow the poison.
Yes, I have, and I continue to urge people to wear masks, get vaccinated, I get my dogs vaccinated; I urge people to vote, I believe systemic racism exists, etc. Despite the narrative that people try to push that all those opposed to medically transitioning children are right-wing conservatives, I am not. I am also a trained scientist with a PhD from a public Ivy university. I do not think that the current zeitgeist surrounding this issue has been resolved through rigorous science and the best attempts to do no harm: to everyone.
I do not think that the current zeitgeist surrounding this issue has been resolved through rigorous science and the best attempts to do no harm: to everyone.
The problem is that in order to prevent the incredibly rare occurrence of a cisgender person mistakenly undergoing transition, you are advocating for policies that would force a far greater number of transgender people to undergo that same horror.
Removed by mod
sigh I don’t know why I bother speaking with TERFs.
There is harm being done to the entire class of women for the loss of the concept of sex as the source of female oppression. Sex matters and these distinctions are being removed in language.
Firstly, that has absolutely nothing to do with what I wrote or the chain of comments thus far. It’s just a completely non-sequitur accusation.
But secondly, this isn’t happening.
An intersectional understanding of oppression and privilege does not erase the oppression cisgender women face.
And the distinctions in language are absolutely not being removed. The words “transgender” and “cisgender” exist precisely to make discussing these issues in a clear and respectful manner possible. That’s exactly what those words are for.
I agree with you.
Thank you. Today I decided I didn’t just want to silence my opinion and contribute to an echo chamber. (Tomorrow I will probably go back to upvoting cat memes.)
