CNN’s Wolf Blitzer seemed at a lost of words at the justification being used to bomb a refugee camp in Gaza.
Everyone knows that if a terrorist takes a hostage, you murder the hostage and their entire family!
It’s the Israeli way!
Human shield? SHOOT THROUGH IT. WE KILL INNOCENT PEOPLE.
“Shoot the hostage” worked for Keanu.
I mean wasn’t there a die hard where he shot himself to get the bad guy after the exit wound?
Also worked for Keyser Soze.
Human shield, checkmate atheist.
an eye for a large number of eyes, a tooth for a huge number of teeth. isn’t that what God commanded?
Its worth understanding that if there is no hope of rescuing or releasing the hostage, all you are doing is giving them time to regroup. This is why, particularly in the 70s and 80s, many countries (famously the US) took a “we don’t negotiate with terrorists” stance. It was determined that the terrorist groups had no intention of ever releasing the hostages and your option was to attack immediately or wait, watch a few hostages get executed, and attack a fortified position.
But, under those circumstances, you have troops on the ground seeking out the hostages. And the IDF have no signs of having done this so…
They’re literally saying “you still not be forgotten” while bombing the shit out of Gaza even though most are still alive and some have been released. They’re nothing more than a casus belli. Israel doesn’t give a shit.
I think the sheer size of this attack proves they give a shit, but they aren’t willing to sacrifice more people by going in without air support.
They’re bombing the places the hostages are being held. They don’t give a shit.
The “air support” isn’t support, because they haven’t made a serious push into Gaza yet. And even if they had, they’re not killing many Hamas fighters. Many of them will be in the vast network of tunnels, which no amount of US-supplied munitions can reach. Even the deepest penetrating bunker buster we have can barely reach those tunnels, and as far as I’ve seen in news reports, we haven’t provided them any of those because we don’t have many to begin with due to their specialty use. For that matter, I don’t think Israel has bombers capable of carrying them anyway, since they weigh over 27,000lbs per munition.
So all that bombing is doing little except killing civilians.
Get the fuck out here with the “don’t negotiate with terrorists” shit. Had Israel not negotiated with terrorists then they wouldn’t have exchanged 1000 Hamas fighters, including the current head of Hamas in Gaza, sitting 4x life-long, for a single IDF soldier.
That shit only works if it’s doctrine and you don’t ever the fuck blink. Which is the right way to go about things, but also not what Israel did, especially Likud governments: Instead they’ve been sappy and emotional about it, milking it for votes.
Get the fuck out here with the “don’t negotiate with terrorists” shit. Had Israel not negotiated with terrorists then they wouldn’t have exchanged 1000 Hamas fighters, including the current head of Hamas in Gaza, sitting 4x life-long, for a single IDF soldier.
Clearly it was a bad idea to deviate from Hannibal Doctrine in hindsight. I suspect this value was in mind when Hamas kidnapped all those civilians.
But, under those circumstances, you have troops on the ground seeking out the hostages. And the IDF have no signs of having done this so…
They’re going into Gaza now, lots of footage of IDF and Hamas soldiers fighting in in north Gaza has been released, just saw some on the news.
Which is weeks after they started bombing Gaza “back to the stone age”
That quote was regarding Lebanon, not Gaza.
The “it’s all so complicated” MFs have been quiet
Oh, I’ve seen them saying a bunch of things. Combinations of “Well, it’s not actually a refugee camp” and “the US also bombs civilians to take out military targets” and the long-used canard “they were warned to go south”.
“the US also bombs civilians to take out military targets”
Not wrong though.
IRC the initial shock and awe coordinated ‘surgical’ bombing at the beginning of the 2003 Iraq war cost the lives of up to 8000 Iraqi civilians. I remember watching it at the time, and American media were really gushing about that whole thing. Going on about how precise it all was. Apparently if you dress it all up in a bit of newspeak (collateral damage, precision bombing, surgical strike, …) you can convince most people that the pressure wave from a large bomb stops at the window of a building.
Maybe international law is too lax. Maybe the US is too powerful to face consequences for anything but the most egregious examples, but then again it’s not as if the world (including the middle-east) gives much of a shit when Assad barrel bombs yet another a hospital. And no one gives a shit about the thousands who died in Sudan this year, because they’re black, so they apparently don’t count.
In a deeply cynical way, it makes sense that the IDF and Israel think it’s unfair. Why should they get so much flack for war crimes, when others get away with it consequence free? China got to demolish ten thousand or more mosques, Russia got to demolish multiple cities and deliberately murder sheltering children, it’s only fair that Israel gets to commit a bit of genocide.
I’m old and tired, and please understand this is an angry and sarcastic comment, but I do wonder what people think war is actually like. Especially urban warfare. Because given history, it seems to me that this is what it’s always like. Thousands of dead civilians, razed buildings, and flimsy excuses and technicalities which allow countries to get away with (not so) accidentally murdering thousands. The world’s biggest and least funny joke.
Though my point in bringing it up is that it’s not even an actual excuse when Israel defenders use it. We Americans actively protested such things as well, as war crimes and violations of international law.
Trying to blatantly use illegal US actions as an excuse for one’s own illegal actions, such as Netanyahu in his speech trying to use the US response to 9/11 as a reason for Israel to do the same, is appalling at best.
Perhaps I would be more appalled if I was even slightly surprised by it. You know how there were protests in Israel before the war about the supreme court?
This is one of the reasons why:
Maybe international law is too lax. Maybe the US is too powerful to face consequences for anything but the most egregious examples
I mean, the US has a legal device to allow them to declare war and invade Hague if the ICC ever tries anything to them.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members'_Protection_Act
From one old and tired person to another, thanks for adding context to what is usually context-less and naive platitudes around here.
I’m in the “this is not black and white” camp, but what Israel is doing now is indefensible, even when considering the inhuman atrocities Hamas committed on October 7th. Bombing a refugee camp in the hopes of killing a few Hamas terrorists is just crazy. Flattening a city full of civilians for the same reason is just crazy.
That said, I don’t know what the answer is. I honestly believe there’s no solution to this conflict. Proposing that Israel remove the border controls and let the Palestinians roam free, given the number of terrorists in their ranks, is just hopelessly naive. They should absolutely return the illegal settlements, but even if they do that (sadly they won’t), the terrorists won’t stop.
Fuck them both, is my view.
Fucking hell. IDF is doing an indefensible acts speedrun, I guess.
I don’t get the headline. The topic is far too important for a click bait title. He was not stunned… just asking the tough question.
He actually says in the clip, “I’m having a hard time hearing you” after the long pause, so it’s also kind of inaccurate. The response was still horrifying but reporting the information correctly would still be cool.
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Weird that I would think “What sort of twat calls himself Wolf Blitzer” and then find out he was born in Germany and think “Oh that’s quite normal then”
WTF Germany that sounds like a blender for wild canines 😂
It’s actually a really cool name. Translate it’s Wolf Lightning or Flash. But a blender…I wouldn’t have thought of that.
Zionist psychopaths.
Definitely psychopaths & monsters, but that was to be expected, very sadly. In the end the victim becomes the murderer.
You’ve got it backwards. Israel has never been the victim in this conflict. There’s almost a century now of Israel oppressing Palestine to take their land. Hamas is just responding to Israel. If Israel backed the fuck off this would all go away. Or at least it would have; not so sure if anyone in Palestine will let Israel be after what they’ve been doing in October…
Israel has never been the victim in this conflict.
You have to be fucking kidding me.
Both sides have been victims of their respective leaderships for decades.
The Palestinians have been victims of the Zionists, especially the religious right with their illegal settlements.
The Israelis have been victims of the Islamic terrorists, currently led by Hamas, whose explicit goal is to eradicate every Jew.
You can’t seriously look at this conflict and ignore half the story.
Terrorist 👏 organisation 👏 will 👏 not 👏 exist 👏 if 👏 you 👏 don’t 👏 give 👏 them 👏 reason 👏 to 👏
I see, so the solution is to stop being Jew, or better yet, to simply die. Got it. Thanks.
Perhaps you can stop subjugating people and create a fundamentalist group? https://youtu.be/o7grSsuFSS0
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
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Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
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You think that will fix the underlying issue? How naive.
It’s crazy that you can go on Reddit and see people claiming it wasn’t a refugee camp meanwhile the IDF has confirmed it was a refugee camp.
They’ve fallen for the Israeli propaganda machine so hard that they are more extreme in their defense of the IDF than the fucking IDF.
It’s not really israeli but US propaganda at this point. On reddit it’s clear what s the editorial line of most moderators
Their onboarding lie to the US citizens was very successful with the decapitated babies claim parroted by the president and those asinine 9/11 and Pearl Harbor references to the October 7th attack. Textbook propaganda by ripping open old scars to instill hatred and dehumanizing your enemy.
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Bold of you to assume those are actual people on Reddit
The confusing is from there being Jabalia city and Jabalia refugee camp nearby. The bombed the latter.
The Times of Israel’s take on this:
The Israel Defense Forces says it has killed the commander of Hamas’s Central Jabaliya Battalion, Ibrahim Biari, in an airstrike in the Gaza Strip a short while ago.
The military said the strike killed Biari and several other terrorists and caused underground terror tunnels to collapse, bringing down several nearby buildings.
Palestinian reports said at least 50 people were killed in the strike and subsequent collapse.
According to the IDF, Biari was one of the Hamas commanders responsible for directing members of the terror group’s elite Nukhba forces to invade Israel on October 7.
The IDF says the airstrike in Jabaliya was part of “a wide-scale strike” on Hamas operatives and infrastructure belonging to the terror group’s Central Jabaliya Battalion.
According to the IDF, the Central Jabaliya Battalion took control of several civilian buildings in the area.
“The strike damaged Hamas’s command and control in the area, as well as its ability to direct military activity against IDF soldiers operating throughout the Gaza Strip,” the army says in a statement.
It says “numerous” terrorists were killed with Biari, and “underground terror infrastructure embedded beneath the buildings, used by the terrorists, also collapsed after the strike.”
The IDF says it also “reiterates its call to the residents of the area to move south for their safety.”
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-says-jabaliya-strike-killed-top-hamas-commander-collapsed-terror-tunnels/So, they have no actual evidence they killed the guy.
And the move south rhetoric is clearly irrelevant, since if there are any Hamas people in the south, they’ll bomb the civilians there anyways. So why does the location matter?
True, it appears they will indeed hit Hamas targets no matter where they are:
“Wherever a Hamas target arises, the IDF will strike at it in order to thwart the terrorist capabilities of the group, while taking feasible precautions to mitigate the harm to uninvolved civilians,” the military said on Wednesday, reiterating previous statements.
The military has said the homes where militants live are “legitimate targets” even if civilians live alongside them.However, it seems like going south is probably still in civilians’ interests, IDF says there are more targets in the north and once ground forces go in they are going to consider anyone remaining north of the Gaza river to be a potential enemy combatant:
The military said the order was aimed at moving civilians away from “Hamas terror targets”, which it believes are concentrated in the north. …
Military spokesman Jonathan Conricus subsequently said: “We are preparing the area for significant military activity in Gaza City. That is the next stage. That’s why we are asking civilians to go south of the Gaza River.” …
Israel renewed its warnings on Oct. 22, saying that anyone staying in the north could be identified as sympathisers of a “terrorist organisation” if they did not leave.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/why-is-israel-attacking-south-gaza-after-telling-people-go-there-2023-10-25/“Go south or we’ll bomb you”
“Oops we bombed you anyway rofl”
Israel has already bombed the evacuation corridor this invasion, as soon as they’re done in the north they’ll go south and murder more innocent children.
as soon as they’re done in the north they’ll go south and murder more innocent children.
Unlikely, I suspect they will annex north Gaza and move the wall.
The location does matter for the ground troops since the can then sweep the buildings easier
It seems like Hamas got exactly what they expected. Extreme insane reaction that shows the IDF for what they really are.
Dam! who are the Nazi now? They literally have people locked up behind walls and are denying the food and other resources. They cant even fish for food unless allowed.
Nazis are defined by their focus on white supremacy with an emphasis on “aryan” whites. Jews and Arabs were very much a target of their regime.
Not all fascists are Nazis. The Israeli government has become increasingly fascist over the past decades and the IDF has a long history of war crimes and crimes against humanity with an emphasis on ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.
Please don’t trivialize “Nazi” when they are still a very active threat in many different nations.
They’re literally doing final solution shit in front of our eyes. Comparing them to the Nazis (a fascist ethnic supremecist nation on their genocide arc) absolutely stands.
That is an INCREDIBLY euro-centric viewpoint. Western Europe, at that.
Genocide and ethnic cleansing did not start or stop with Nazi Germany. Hell, by a lot of estimates, Imperial Japan killed more civilians during THEIR ethnic cleansing attempts.
And that ignores all the genocidal “Eastern European” wars of the 20th century, Russia’s actions, China’s ongoing horror, the hell that is Africa, and all the other wars. And that is just the 20th/21st century.
Yes, they could easily give a more appropriate allegory with the Rwandan genocide (tribal divisions exploited by colonial Europe lead to genocide), but frankly nazis are better known.
Still doesn’t make it right. Rape of Nanking , The Rohingya genocide, Bosnian Genocide.
the hell that is Africa
@NuXCOM_90Percent yikes dude if you see Eurocentric ethnocentrism as a bad thing then maybe don’t use overly generalising phrases like that, it just sounds racist.
They’re literally doing final solution shit in front of our eyes.
If they intended to maximize civilian deaths they aren’t going about it very well, they are still calling people before strikes and doing “door-knocker” strikes in rooftops before the real ones. This is war, where many civilians die, not systemic eradication, where every civilian dies.
It’s also worth noting that 20% if Israeli citizens with full rights are Palestinian/Arab and live mostly peacefully. Gaza is being attacked because they are a belligerent in a war, not because of eugenics or a Nazi-style “final solution.”
They aren’t doing roofknocking during this war, and that’s such a thin justification to obliterate peoples homes I’m shocked you’re repeating it.
Why are there pogroms and settlers being armed in the west bank? There is no Hamas there, it isn’t Gaza. What gives?
They literally blasted a whole ass refugee camp killing hundreds yesterday to kill one guy (aledgedly), and are fully blasting all civilian infrastructure. You’re either blind, misinformed, or a disingenuous hack.
In October 2023, a senior Israeli official stated that [roofknocking] would no longer be the norm and would only be used under certain circumstances.
Sounds like they still do it sometimes but not often, thanks for the correction.
that’s such a thin justification to obliterate peoples homes I’m shocked you’re repeating it.
Where did I say roofknocking justified bombings? I’m pointing out that Israel is not behaving in a way that supports characterizing their actions in Gaza as Nazi-like, their intention is not to eradicate Arabs. I suspect their intention is to clear North Gaza and annex it down to the Gaza river but that’s just my personal take.
They literally blasted a whole ass refugee camp killing hundreds yesterday to kill one guy (aledgedly), and are fully blasting all civilian infrastructure.
Allegedly there was a network of tunnels under the area as well.
I’m curious, what would you do if you were in Israel’s shoes, if your city just had thousands of people murdered and kidnapped then fled into a densely populated hostile territory? What do you think the right move is here?
You’re either blind, misinformed, or a disingenuous hack.
Because someone couldn’t also be informed and simply disagree with you?
If you want the hostages, you negotiate, not bomb where the hostages are. You also don’t wait 2 days to secure the area while immediately hitting the “bomb gaza” button. The conflict makes so much more sense when you realize Israel cares more about killing and displacing Palestinians than saving their own people. (Hannibal doctrine)
If I’m in Israel’s shoes, I wouldn’t be demonizing and dehumanizing an entire people I’ve stolen land from.
Let’s say I magically became ruler on Oct 7th. There’s only two ways out of the conflict for good, full scale genocide and ethnic cleansing or reparations and a one state secular solution. Obviously I choose the latter.
The issue is what kicked this round of genocide off.
Hamas broke out of the open air prison and attacked Israeli civilians as well as foreign citizens in truly barbaric ways. Murder, rape, defiling corpses, all that stuff. (Allegedly?) recorded on go pros and other cameras provided by Hamas.
And, like it or not, Hamas are the de facto government of Gaza. And I think they “won” the last election they allowed to happen?
An Israeli government that immediately follows up with “Hey, lets give the country that just attacked us and are still holding our people hostage a lot of land, money, and resources” would see themselves facing a coup almost immediately. The US infamously went scorched earth on Jimmy Carter because he wasn’t “hard on terrorism” (and it didn’t help that republicans were actively sabotaging him in the process…). And that was a few randos on the other side of the country. Not the still warm and mutilated bodies of nieces and nephews.
And, as can be seen with the periodic attacks from terror groups in other nearby nations, Israel still needs to be “strong” for political and defense reasons. If the narrative becomes “Just rape a few Israeli bitches and then you get whatever you want” then… yeah.
The moment Hamas attacked Israeli, German, UK, and other citizens: There was no way this ended peacefully. A two state solution is more or less forever off the table (see the issues that have plagued Yemen) so long as Hamas exists at all.
And a one state solution and reparations cannot happen until, again, Hamas does not exist. The hostages are ancillary to “ensuring this can never happen again”.
The only way this would have ended with minimal bloodshed would be if good faith negotiations for hostages had immediately begun… and Mossad and the IDF were able to assassinate basically all of Hamas leadership in surgical strikes while pretending to negotiate. Because anything else is the usual issue with guerilla warfare where the weaker power uses civilians as human shields. And when those shields die, their family and friend become radicalized against the killers.
And this also ignores Hamas leadership allegedly (?) publicly stating they will continue to commit horrifying acts of terror against anyone who is unfortunate enough to be within a few miles of them.
reparations and a one state secular solution
Reparations can and should happen, however I don’t think that a one-state solution is viable presently. Each side is still launching bloody attacks against the other; maybe there will be a remote possibility of this after a few generations of peace. If both sides secular and wanted secular government it would certainly provide a lot of common ground.
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the legitimacy of western hegemony is seriously tested here
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