• rdri@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Yes, there is no use in looking in the past. What matters is the future. Israel is now trying to secure a safe future for their citizens. On the other hand, I don’t believe hamas had any thought about what would they achieve by starting violence again. So it is hamas who does useless things, not Israel.

    Getting attention by violence doesn’t seem to have worked well for anyone who started it.

    Radicalizing civilians is not something that can be avoided, especially when current hamas propaganda does basically the same thing.

    • ???@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      The future right now is that Israeli forces are committing ethnic cleansing in Gaza. Israel is not at all in any way or capacity trying to secure a safe future for their own citizens and got the Palestinians.

      • rdri@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        What you said here is illogical.

        1. If ethic cleansing is what’s happening right now, then why exactly was it not done before? Nobody would’ve stopped them anyway. If they really wanted it, that is.

        2. Hamas did not at all in any way or capacity try to secure a safe future for Palestinians by killing 1000 people in Israel.

        3. Leaving terrorists as is will guarantee more terrorism.

        • ???@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago
          1. Israel did this every day for decades
          2. No, they didn’t, I agree
          3. Exactly. And Israel is a terrorist state.
          • rdri@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago
            1. Not seeing it. If it’s done for decades why does Palestinians population growing?
            2. See 1.
            • ???@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              If it’s done for decades why does Palestinians population growing?

              1. Because of the high birth rate. It doesn’t matter if Palestinians live today still, the key point is that Israel is systematically committing ethnic cleansing. But no you’re right, let’s wait until the last Palestinian is dead before we condemn Israel and cut off aid.
              2. What is that supposed to mean?
    • lennybird@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Securing a safe future is very well the goals of Palestinians, including Hamas in their very charter. The difference is Israel seeks to maintain status-quo because they’re living comfortably with a massive GDP largely dependent on foreign aid and tourism. Meanwhile Palestine are confined to ghettos / open-air prisons as they look on for what Israelis took of their ancestors’ land.

      Also I completely disgree on your notion of producing more terrorists. Israel has only two choices: make more terrorists, or commit genocide against civilians yet to be radicalized. Otherwise your argument doesn’t make logical sense. But ultimately if we step back and choose other options as opposed to reactive violence, there are other ways in which Israel has agency to change this.

      • rdri@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        “By killing Israeli we will achieve our safe future”, sure.

        If they can have their own television in their “open-air prison” surely they can have pretty much anything else. Build infrastructure, not rockets.

        “Ancestor’s land” huh? Maybe first make yourselves look like a civilized people? When you become a terrorist, you lose all culture and therefore any rights for your ancestor stuff.

        Defending against terrorism is not a genocide.

        • lennybird@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          I mean, what the fuck do you think Israel has done to the native Arab populations there for decades on end…? Why is it a one-way street for you? You do realize that more Palestine civilians have died at the hands of Israeli soldiers than Israeli civilians from Palestinian terrorists… Riiiight… ?

          If they can have their own television in their “open-air prison” surely they can have pretty much anything else. Build infrastructure, not rockets.

          So I can do whatever the fuck I want to you in my prison, so long as I give you a television and an antenna…? Interesting. Think that through a bit more.

          “Ancestor’s land” huh? Maybe first make yourselves look like a civilized people? When you become a terrorist, you lose all culture and therefore any rights for your ancestor stuff.

          Has it ever occurred to you that we were terrorists when we firebombed and carpet-bombed 90+ Japanese cities? Did it ever occur to you that many civilians died in Dresden, Germany…? It’s all about context, my friend. Hell, Americans were terrorists when we defied the British monarchy. If someone literally took ships full of people to YOUR land, and then slowly began displacing and annexing your land as you continue to wane into poverty, yeah, you would get pretty upset, too. Hence the famous adage, “One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.”

          You have little empathy; that is, you lack the historical awareness or capacity to place yourself in the shoes of these people.

          • rdri@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            You do realize that more Palestine civilians have died at the hands of Israeli soldiers than Israeli civilians from Palestinian terrorists… Riiiight… ?

            You do realize that math doesn’t allow anyone practice terrorism, right? If you justify terrorism with that nobody will listen to you, and rightfully so.

            So I can do whatever the fuck I want to you in my prison, so long as I give you a television and an antenna…? Interesting. Think that through a bit more.

            The point is, if you call such a life “a prison” you have no idea what a prison really is. Can they build? Yes. Can they educate themselves? Yes.

            Has it ever occurred to you that we were terrorists when we firebombed and carpet-bombed 90+ Japanese cities?

            Has it ever accured to you that you are justifying terrorists who do terrorism regularly and are teached to do so by hamas?

            It’s all about context, my friend.

            You are avoiding the context. The context being a current state of the world society. If Palestinians really want to come out from their “prison” and connect to the world, someone should’ve told them that regular terrorism will not lead there.

            You have little empathy; that is, you lack the historical awareness or capacity to place yourself in the shoes of these people.

            Hell yes, I will never want to put myself in the shoes of people who want to and enjoy killing. The lack of historical awareness is on Palestinians though.

            • lennybird@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Perhaps the real terrorists are indeed the squatters stealing slowly stealing land and killing the majority of civilians throughout this conflict…(hint: Israel).

              Your arguments are not even remotely compelling but utterly deflective while excusing mass atrocities by Israel.

              • rdri@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                Perhaps? Or perhaps terrorists are those who teach their children they need to kill Jews.

                So is it about the land or the killing? How exactly do you think doing terrorism will help “unsteal” any land?

                Are you excusing mass terrorism by Palestinians? I think you do. Is that what you call “compelling”?