I joined reddit on the tailwind, so it was all echo chamber, we hate newcomers, gatekeeping, automod frenzy, too many rulebreakers, too many rules, etc I could be wrong, but thats what I imagine it used to be like.
I was on Reddit since almost the beginning and I would not say it’s similar, but I also don’t think that culture exists on the internet anymore, closest thing might be tildes?
What I really miss is the intelligent conversion and actual debate in the comments. People don’t really lay out arguments anymore, complete with sources and logical conclusions. Back in the early days of Reddit you’d be downvoted and told off if you made a claim without evidence. Anecdotal evidence, speculation, and bias were called out. There were still jokes and light comment sections, but comments aiming to make a point were essays where you could actually learn something. Might sound exhausting to some, but it feels like the internet has turned into just upvoting whatever confirms your bias, whether there’s evidence of it or not. I’m sure you can find some excellent comments in the old r/bestof posts.
The content was a lot different too, the community was just a lot more scientific. Studies were posted over articles, and clickbait articles (before they were even clickbait) were called out as not having substantial content or evidence. Even studies were heavily scrutinized by identifying the bias in the methodology.
There were a lot less communties (subreddits) too, which I think lead to healthier discussion overall and less of an echo chamber effect. It was still always criticized as being a “hive mind”, but it felt less like one to me back then anyways.
I guess overall it feels like the main difference is everything nowadays is meant to radicalize you, or get a reaction out of you. Back in the day if something political or scientific was being shared it was shared with the intention of changing minds, not confirming bias.
Downvoted.
Not a laid out argument, complete with sources and logical conclusions. This is anecdotal, speculative, and biased information.
Serious note : Love your perspective about the old reddit I’m always curious to know what made internet what it was. I wonder if that’ll happen again.
Source or gtfo!
Kinda pain in the ass to add links and formatting on a phone which most of us use. Early days of reddit was all Desktops.
Yeah good point, that’s probably part of it! Reddit was probably used more during active time than passive time (while shitting). Gave you time to properly research a topic and structure arguments.
/r/askhistorians was the last bastion of this approach. I loved that sub and really hope they migrate to a lemmy soon.
I appreciate this take, and I strive to make intelligent conversation here on Lemmy.
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People don’t really lay out arguments anymore, complete with sources and logical conclusions
I only joined reddit like a year or so ago and have recently ditched it. I was never a fan of someone just spamming links to studies and condescending to me while doing so. I think people use links to sources as a way to control conversations. Or at least, that’s all I ever saw it used as.
I don’t know, I’m a pretty left leaning person. The vitriolic, almost violent responses to some of my comments is shocking. I knew Lemmygrad was a thing here, along with tankies, honestly it’s off putting to say the least. OP talks about Reddit being an echo chamber. I got news for you. This place is just as bad for lefty type discourse being regurgitated. My experience is that it has been anything but friendly.
Also just as hostile to women as reddit, sadly.
Found the woman
Please no crucify.
Witch*
I honestly wouldn’t give those people the dignity of calling them leftists. They’re too concerned about cosplaying as activists and dunking on people to actually give a shit about advancing the rights of real people or trying to protect anything good.
Seriously the number of people who defend DPRK and Pol Pot claiming they were socialists is shocking.
I feel like those posters aren’t really socialists either. There’s a point which just claiming a worldview isn’t enough to justify the accuracy of that label while holding all the opposing positions to its values.
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I see comments like this, complaining about tankies, more often than i see “tankies”.
On the occasion politics comes up, and i say anything socialist, I’m jumped on by people who seem either angry or smugly dismissive of the notion of people organising.
Dude is a Canadian landlord. But I guess since the right wing has literal nazis now, anything left of that is ‘pretty left leaning’
It’s shit like this. I’m just a normal guy, I have a job, kids, hobbies. I believe in less military spending, national healthcare, social programs, and support for our vulnerable population. I got into real estate because it seemed like a good investment. People on here make it seem like anything that doesn’t fit their idea of “left” or"socialism" just be part of the conservative machine. Jesus, my investment decisions are not politically motivated. I made the mistake of trying to be part of a discussion and ended up with someone telling me I’m garbage and that I should give my investments to the tenants. Lol.
Being a landlord is a deliberate choice to make money through other people’s work.
It’s welfare for the rich.
That’s not to say you, or any specific landlord, is evil. It’s just an evil thing to do. If you don’t live in the house, you have no business owning it.
And honestly, today I agree with you (although I think there is some merit in a rental system as some people prefer to rent). I haven’t bought a property for 15 years and I see what the younger generation is going through. If I knew then what I know now, I would not have purchased rentals. But at the time the real estate market was much different. Hell there were decent properties for sale for 70k back then.
if you agree then why aren’t you getting out of it entirely?
Honestly? I went into it as an investment, from a capital appreciation stand point I have done very well. I’ve mentioned in another post that I basically charge minimum rent (30% below market). When I had kids I thought the properties would provide decent income for the kids so it would supplement what they earn in the long term. But then one of my children ended up with a life long disability. My properties are in a condo/town house community close to many amenities. It’s very possible they may end up living in one of the properties while the other parts for their expenses. If I had wanted to get out I would have done so last year. But as it turns out I may actually need the properties to ensure my kid doesn’t end up as a disabled homeless person. So at the end of the day, I’m not interested in making money off the properties, I just cover expenses. It’s probably who I’ve had the same tenants for 12 years. I literally don’t even remember their names.
some people prefer to rent
Utter bullshit. The only reason people rent instead of buying is because prices are too damn high.
And prices are too damn high because of landlords. If you are both problem and solution, your job needn’t exist.
If I knew then what I know now, I would not have purchased rentals. But at the time the real estate market was much different.
It was exactly the same, only cheaper. And it was the flood of landlords buying when it was cheap that led to prices getting higher.
People like you are the reason this problem exists.
If I knew then what I know now, I would not have purchased rentals.
You at least deserve credit for admitting this.
There are many European families that I know in Canada that are financially able to buy but choose to rent.
Jesus, my investment decisions are not politically motivated
I agree but what you chose to do effects the lives of others. You’re participating in something that is built to hurt people for not being as lucky as you are.
Agreed, especially in today’s market. It wasn’t the case back when I bought the properties. 15 years ago, it was a renters market. Landlords were under pressure, but cheaper prices and low interest rates made it feasible. My first house that I bought was cheaper per month than the apartment I was renting previously.
Hey, I better not be seeing any disrespect for landchads here. Now you add 5% more rent to this month’s tip, hear me, rentoid?
the right wing has literal nazis now
No more than the left does
Mate, it ain’t possible to be left wing and a nazi.
That’s a lie
Nazism is a far right ideology, my ignorant friend.
The Nazis are socialists
GOP/Russian/Qanon propaganda everywhere
I’ve had several people here already tell me (directly or indirectly) that I’m really a Trump supporter in disguise because I dare criticize Biden and centrists don’t exist. But that isn’t a problem specific to Lemmy, and the sites that aren’t like this are alt-right “Ultra MAGA” cult sites that I want nothing to do with.
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The left has turned into the fascists they pretend to despise
Absolutely. If you can’t look at your own side critically, you’re in a cult.
Anyone who supports Biden isn’t left wing, especially if they get mad at your criticism.
The left has a lot to say about Biden
I had someone try to cancel me the other day because I said I prefer a more casual internet experience. The whole thing was wild. They made 5 posts in 6 hours and got banned from two instances, all because they wanted a fight and picked me at random. Apparently they didn’t believe me that “I avoid politics on lemmy” has to do with all of the tankie extremism here.
just as bad for lefty type discourse being regurgitated
You allergic to being correct or something?
I find Lemmy to be an echo chamber more than Reddit was. Depends on the community but Lemmy can be pretty caustic if you don’t agree with something.
That being said, is fine there is different opinions. Creates discussion.
I was around when reddit first started. There were Nazis. It seemed fine, because Nazis were useless idiots, and people told them to go fuck themselves.
Reddit in 2016 actively helped install a fascist who eventually tried to overthrow American democracy.
Reddit now is a place where “fuck off, Nazi” is punished more reliably and more harshly than being a goddamn Nazi.
This service feels familiar - but not for the reasons I’d like. The fools in charge of every popular instance think scolding “be polite!” and punishing rudeness instead of trolling are a force multiplier for trolls. If you can just keep saying dumb shit until someone says a no-no word - they get the boot, and you win.
I want a forum where “here is why you’re an asshole” is moderated based on whether the explanation is correct.
I actually got told by Reddit Staff that they’d contact law enforcement if I made anymore references to “punching Nazis”, then they banned me for “Report Abuse”
They never did a damn thing about the trolls who kept flagging any post referencing me being trans or anything positive about transpeople as “Suicidal” or “Promoting Self-Harm”
Got those “A redditor has asked us to reach out to you concerning…” all fucking day.
The worst sin of reddit mods was demanding “report and move on!” and then never doing anything about reports. Or scolding you for messaging the subreddit instead of using the report button.
Either do the fucking work or let people talk.
The worst part of that is they started banning people for “Report Abuse” even though I checked, “Report Abuse” is not even mentioned in the TOS.
How the fuck, are you gonna tell me to “Report and move on”, if you ban me for reporting.
Incidentally, guess why I had to stop using Reddit…
They banned me for very obviously joking that someone else should punch the fascist attorney general of Indiana in the face and it was some sort of punny reply based on something he said. They only reinstated me because a bunch of mods from multiple subreddits took my side.
They ban for “won’t someone rid me of this turbulent priest” comments apparently.
You understand that idiom, but not ‘go on, make my day?’ Even when it’s patiently explained to you?
What?
Oh, I got that once. What’s the idea, I don’t get it ?
There’s a negative stereotype that Transpeople kill themselves all the time, studies have shown this number to be dropping and the suicides to be caused by abuse from others and denial of transition related care.
The Far Right ignores this and goes “Lol transpeople kill themselves because transpeople dumb”
So it became a thing to report anyone Trans on Reddit, for “Suicidal Behavior”, which Reddit never looks into the validity of, they just send you a bunch of suicide hotline links… which is well intended, but there really should be a mechanism in place to find out if they’re trolling.
Eventually when it became common knowledge that it’s so exploitable it became a more in general method of griefing others.
You had me in the first half, not gonna lie.
I feel like political discourse didn’t start on Reddit until after subreddits were added
Haha, no. There’s a reason /r/Atheism was one of the default subs. All that Ron Paul didn’t come out of nowhere.
They say Atheism is to having a religion in the same way that not having a car is the same as having a car.
The same cannot be said of r/Atheism, the most dogmatic place on the whole fucking internet.
Indeed.
Reddit in 2016 actively helped install a fascist
you can install a fascist?
can you uninstall one too or?
I’d say less so. There wasn’t much by way of disinformation campaigns and bots back when Reddit first started so the posts and comments felt more genuine and organic. Even with Kbin/Lemmy being much smaller, there’s still a ton of weird shit that gets posted here or comments that feel really suspicious. It would be nice for that kind of environment to make its way back, but it seems those days are over.
We just had an incident of CSAM on the largest instance and of course there is the pool of shit that is explodingheads and to a much lesser extent hexbear.
And the ddos’ n child porn aren’t too nice either
Lol no Lemmy is just as bad as Reddit
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I left reddit for lemmy and have yet to have the same experience here that I did on reddit.
Not in my experience.
Honestly the lack of content helps people mellow out.
I like the fact that I’m not doom scrolling and being fed rage bait by algorithms. I also like the fact that I’m reasonably sure most people here are actual people and not bots or paid actors.
my experience so far is people are as, if not more toxic then reddit. honestly I feel like half the people here were sick of people blocking them on reddit and decided to attack people with their stupidity here instead.
If you’re reading this, please go back to reddit, they need you so much more over there.
This is my experience as well, lemmy.world has been quite toxic IME.
Report those being toxic. We are quick to react.
You have no idea what you’re talking about, if you think people here are bad you must be the most fragile little snowflake who ever lived.
Go curl up and jerk off in your safe space.
/s for those who weren’t sure.
Now my safe space is filled with cum
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hey I’m doing my best to be rude, scabulous, irascible and misanthropic out here.
There are antibiotic creams for scabulousness these days, how advanced is your case? 🧟♀️
ha. typo. I meant scabrous.
Ed Sheeran level. He’s too far gone
We appreciate your work.
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At least when CP is posted here it’s a malicious attack instead of a Reddit Approved Top Sub.
All the tales of Eden have been told by those who stayed till the fall
Yep, having jailbait as one of the top subs is not a good look. But in other places it’s more pleasant. I miss the novelty accounts before the coming of bots.
i miss when spacedicks would make some gross disgusting shit get to the front page 😂
wait, warm? cuddly? can you show me this magical fairy-tale corner of lemmy?
Warm and cuddly until you say something negative bout China or Russia, then they come hauling ass…
I could never understand how you could be attached to china’s government that intensely. their government has fully betrayed communism, so extensibly that tech giants with no public control, (control the public instead) are fully formed.
Edit: i forgot my original intent but I do want a discussion and not just a roast of led astray MLs.
LLMs, useful idiots, and a couple effective propagandists overseeing the whole thing.
Yeah they’re a pretty fucking braindead group.
im a woman of taste, i like butt they can haul all they want, see if i care
Putin is a militant pensioner from St. Petesbugrg garages. Fuck Putin.
Well, technically it is not negative about Russia. And I think I’ve yet not seen trolls from Olgino(or whereever they currently are)
Or say something in support of conservative American policies. Or say something in support of organized religion.
You can use the wayback machine to see how Reddit was at any point in the past. I was there from even before subreddits were a thing, and yeah it was pretty great. The fediverse does have a bit of that feel.
In 10 years we’ll look back on this early Lemmy period with the same nostalgia, and wonder how Lemmy ever got so shitty.
Nah - it’s pretty shit already. I wasn’t on Reddit at the absolute beginning but I did clock in 12+ years. This is more like the end of Reddit - only split into several servers.
At least we aren’t all competing to make the highest voted dumb joke or pun on every single post yet.
Sure
The vast majority of people on Lemmy right now are directly from Reddit and they act exactly like the bog standard Redditors they are. Stop deluding yourself.
Who are you interacting with that has been so lame? I’m having a way better time in these comnunities than on reddit.
You know, I’ve felt there’s a sizable difference now in the kinds of discussion you tend to see depending on your home instance. Lemmy.world really feels like Reddit in both good and bad ways. Lemmy.ca is cool with local news and a smattering of other communities. But I what I really love beehaw.org. There are few places like it, and I hope if people join there, they don’t bring their Reddit tendencies with them. Slow down a bit, think of each other and enjoy real, thoughtful discussion.
I feel Lemmy is like reddit without the normies making this infact more reddit than reddit
I miss the ‘normies’, I interact with enough tech people in my daily life
I block almost every tech community and tech is still 50% of my feed here
This is exactly how Reddit started too. It was the digg migration that brought in all the normies.
Others credit the GameFAQs forums closing. Which really tells you how long reddit’s been around.
A bunch of websites circa 2008 basically won the internet, and would be dominant essentially forever if they hadn’t all started lighting themselves on fire circa 2020. Apparently because of interest rates. I am no ardent anti-capitalist, but I can definitely say, this specific arrangement has been thoroughly fucky, and its collapse has been deeply stupid.
Digg collapse was very similar. Digg was very clearly the “winner” at that time in terms of user numbers, but killed themselves in a very similar way as Reddit does now.
The word enshittification didn’t exist at the time, but the concept predates either website. It nearly predates the web. Stop talking to each other and start buying things.
Where are these warm and cuddly people? If you express viewpoints that are not central dogma to the left of center folk, you’re just as ostracized here as you would be on Reddit.
Yeah, it’s much worse here.
I’d argue that it is actually more so the case here if anything.
