- cross-posted to:
- technews@radiation.party
- cross-posted to:
- technews@radiation.party
Tesla braces for its first trial involving Autopilot fatality::Tesla Inc is set to defend itself for the first time at trial against allegations that failure of its Autopilot driver assistant feature led to death, in what will likely be a major test of Chief Executive Elon Musk’s assertions about the technology.
Although it’s far from perfect, autopilot gets into a lot less accidents per mile than drivers without autopilot.They have some statistics here:https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReportEDIT: As pointed out by commenters in this thread, autopilot is mainly used on high ways, whereas the crash average is on all roads. Also Tesla only counts a crash if the airbag was deployed, but the numbers they compared against count every crash, including the ones without deployed airbags.
Why should we trust any numbers that comes from Tesla?
Do you have statistics not by Tesla?
They’re probably the only ones who even has access to such statistics. If you’re simply just going to refute the stats because of the source then atleast provide some credible counter evidence.
Tesla’s numbers are trash. Tesla have been caught again and again lying.
…then provide some more trustworthy stats because you just saying that is not it. This is literally like debating a climate change denier or flat earther.
“Here’s a picture of the earth from space”
Why would Tesla release any numbers that would make it look bad?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2023/04/26/tesla-again-paints-a-very-misleading-story-with-their-crash-data/
Even according to that article autopilot and FSD seems to be about at the level as human driver. I’m willing to accept that - many others arent.
The narrative here is that these systems are dangerous and shouldn’t be allowed to be used on public roads. My argument is that they’re not as dangerous as reading stories about these individual incidents might make them seem like and they’re getting better all the time. If they’re not significantly better than human drivers now they will be soon and Tesla most likely is going to lead the way.
And when autopilot is at fault for an accident or fatality, who should be held responsible?
Just because it’s better, shouldn’t absolutely them of responsibility when it fails.
The driver is always responsible for using the tools within the car correctly and maintaining control of the vehicle at all times.
Either way the driver would be at fault. However, the driver might be able to make a (completely separate) case that the car’s defects made control impossible, but since the driver always had the option to disable self-driving, I doubt that would go anywhere.
Just like you don’t get off the hook if your cruise control causes an accident… and it doesn’t matter how much Tesla lied about what it may or may not be capable of, because at the end of the day it’s always the driver’s responsibility to know the limitations of the vehicle and disable the feature and take control when necessary.
Which is exactly what this case is claiming, that the software is defective.
And what happens when we progress beyond Level 2 or 3 automation? Then the car is making choices for the driver, choices the driver may not have any say in or realistically be capable of reacting to in an emergency?
Deferring responsibility to the driver under any scenario is a cop-out. We have a long history of engineering qualifications and regulations to ensure safety of the populace, engineers and architects design structures to be safe, plumbers have to plumb to code, heck even cars themselves have a mile long list of compliance requirements. All to ensure the thing that companies build aren’t killing the population, and when they do someone is responsible.
Yet as soon as we start talking about software, “not my problem dawg.”.
This is a guy who was using a glorified cruise control (which is all AP is) at high speed whilst watching a DVD instead of looking at the road.
The software can only help so much. There’s a reason why there are laws requiring attentiveness checks now… people are reckless
So you’re correct to call it a tool, with this level of automation the driver is ultimately the operator. But you’re missing something
Did you misuse the tool, did they sell you a bad tool, or did their instructions cause the tool to be misused?
The first is as you said - if I make and sell you a circular saw and you cut your finger off being an idiot, that’s on you.
If the thing flew apart under normal use, that’s on me - it’s likely my responsibility, and possibly negligence.
If the box or user manual said it is for wood and metal use, and it’s actually entirely unsafe for metal use, that’s probably negligence on my part
Cruise control doesn’t unexpectedly jerk your wheel to the side, if it did and you could prove you were using it reasonably and in the recommended way, you’d almost definitely get off the hook