- cross-posted to:
- technews@radiation.party
- cross-posted to:
- technews@radiation.party
You must log in or register to comment.
Imagine naming a feature “Full Self-Driving,” and yet you can’t take your attention away from the road and must be ready to take over at a moment’s notice.
This is on par for Elon’s entire career. He loves claiming success and taking credit for things he either didn’t accomplish himself, or things he hasn’t accomplished yet.
Or ever will.
Like popularize electric vehicles, create a reusable rocket or put global internet around the earth? Never gonna happen right?
He didn’t do any of those things. He hired people with functioning brains to do it while impeding them by constantly violating labor laws and creating organizational chaos.
Nah, more like the replicator, teleportation and faster than light vehicles.
Listing random non-related things isn’t hard.
The only thing on that list I think his companies can really inarguably take credit for is the reusable rockets, the rest were already being done by other companies. He got ahead of the competition (mostly by ignoring regulations, labor laws, etc), but electric cars and satellite internet constellations were very far from novel concepts when he entered the space.
I remember reading a post that claimed that Tesla’s safety rating was given to them because a bunch of their crashes were determined to be human error - because the self-driving feature would automatically disconnect if it faced a crash it couldn’t avoid.
The issue is a bit muddied by the fact that hitting the brake or the accelerator will deactivate it, and people will usually hit one of those if they believe that they are going to crash.
It’s ok, it’s in beta, so some features may not be complete just yet, but hey, let’s just release this to the public anyways.
And charge a shit load for it
It’s just a driving assistant, like in any other car. As far as I know, currently Mercedes is the only one who implemented autonomous driving, and even that one is limited to some specific areas. But at least that one is real. So much, that legally Mercedes (the company) is considered to be the driver of such cars, in case anything happens on the roads.
Depends on your definition for autonomous driving which mainly depends on your ODD but they’re not the only ones. Honda ,Volvo and GM have something. Others (i.e. BMW) have stuff next year but they’re all going with more accurate names. CoPilot, PilotAssist, Super cruise, Traffic Jam Pilot. Makes it clear that these are drive assists, not drive replace.
Mercedes has Level 3 autonomy in certain highway situations, so you are legally allowed to watch a video or read a newspaper. You just need to be able to take over again within 20 seconds or so.
Others are following close up, I think Audi had to postpone Level 3 a bit etc. BMW has something in the pipeline as well.
But these are really more than drive assists. I really find the “Level n” specifications more helpful than “drive assist” vs “autonomy”
None of the other brands oversell what they are offering.
You’re absolutely right, it can be quite misleading to name a feature “Full Self-Driving” when it still requires constant attention and intervention from the driver. The expectations set by such a name may not align with the reality of the technology’s current limitations.
What is going on?
One or both are bots?
Booze Fan’s comment totally sounds like a bot
… Bender?
Some might even call it fraud.
You’re absolutely right, it can be quite misleading to name a feature “Full Self-Driving” when it still requires the driver’s constant attention and readiness to take control. The expectation that the vehicle can handle all driving tasks autonomously is not aligned with the current reality. It’s important for automakers to be transparent and accurate in their naming conventions to avoid any false expectations.
Let’s be fair. It could be called Driver Assistant Plus and you people would still be complaining because this isn’t about Tesla
I complained because it absolutely sucked. Only Tesla would release this garbage in such a fraudulent manner, no other company would risk the lawsuits. Tesla’s been killing people with autopilot since 2016, and FSD since it was released to the public. That should make you think, but that seems to be hard for some people when it comes to a Musking,
Autopilot or FSD Beta has never been something you’re supposed to rely on and every Tesla owner knows this. If they drive over someone it’s the fault of the driver, not the vehicle. Accidents will always happen and if you focus on individual incidents you’re missing the big picture. You’re never going to reach 100% safety and 99.99% safety means 33000 accidents a year in the US alone. Also the little statistics we have about this indicate that drivers with FSD or Autopilot engaged already crash less than the average.
According to this report, the average Tesla equipped with FSD Beta, driven on predominantly non-highway sections of road, crashes 0.31 times per million miles, a dramatic decrease from the average American, who crashes 1.53 times every million miles.
Too bad there’s so many owners relying on it.
if you focus on individual incidents you’re missing the big picture
Not at all. In fact, the point is to focus on classes of crashes. Which Tesla fails miserably at.
Also the little statistics we have about this indicate that drivers with FSD or Autopilot engaged already crash less than the average.
This is an outright lie. Period. Having owned a Tesla since 2018, I’m quite familiar with the garbage software and the user community that loves to say no one should trust it on one side, and on the other side of their face says that it’s better than a human.
Literally can’t debate with you guys because you straight out refuse to believe any evidence presented to you and just base your opinions on anecdotal evidence and individual incidents. If those stats are made up then provide a better source that backs you up.
Let’s be fair. Elon could be killing a man, on camera, and shout a confession afterwards and you would still find excuses for his behaviour and tell us we’re just misinterpreting facts…
There’s plenty to criticize Musk for. Your apparent assumption that anyone not violently agains him must be a fan is just further evidence for the lack of ability to think rationally about the subject.
Nah, more the assumption that anyone not violently against him doesn’t know him or his actions.
If you violently oppose Musk then how do you feel about people like Putin, Xi Jinping, Ali Khamenei or Bashar al-Assad? Those are the people I focus my opposition to. Someone like Musk, Bezos, Tate etc. I simply have no time nor interest for. That’s recreational outrage.
So, when are we changing this forums name from Technology to it’s actual purpose of late “every click and rage bait post about Tesla and Musk so people can circlejerk worse than reddit”?
It’s literally nothing but bullshit about Tesla and Twitter. All day long. No one cares!
I want to know about some actual tech, not the drama.
You don’t care. If no one cared, there wouldn’t be so many posts and extremely active discussions about them. If you want different content, post it.
Elon Musk is a scammer. He’s good at that and it’s the only thing he’s good at
Can we go now and talk about technology,?
Unfortunately, all the current tech news is either people running naked scams or people debunking them.
The tragedy of our modern era is how much money we’ve invested in selling people a box labeled “Newest Life Changing Gadget” that’s just full of rocks.
The only way to fix it is to post more interesting stuff yourself. Me too, tbh.
It seems like a new anti Tesla article hits lemmy every day. It’s boring at this point.
Hopefully soon after the garbage copy/paste press release “articles” about “AI”, fake superconductors, and other nonsense stops being posted.
deleted by creator
Without LIDAR, this is a fool’s endeavor.
I wish this was talked about every single time the subject came up.
Responsible, technologically progressive companies have been developing excellent, safe, self-driving car technology for decades now.
Elon Musk is eviscerating the reputation of automated vehicles with his idiocy and arrogance. They don’t all suck, but Tesla sure sucks.
Dont let them know about that I don’t want my radar detector flipping out for laser lol
what?
K and KA band are used for blind spot monitoring and would make radar detectors go nuts until filtering got worked out, cars that use Lidar will set them off as well though they’re more rare still
What?
What does Radar have anything to do with Lidar?
They are completely in different EM spectrums.
Also modern LIDAR is keyed in a way that LIDAR systems can’t interfere with other LIDAR systems.
Maybe because I dunno, it’s a detector? I’d love to try to explain it further but it seems like you’re being intentionally oblivious so why bother lol
Do you have lidar on your head? No, yet you’re able to drive with just two cameras on your face. So no lidar isn’t required. Not that driving in a very dynamic world isn’t very difficult for computers to do, it’s not a matter of if, it’s just a matter of time.
Would lidar allow “super human” driving abilities? Like seeing through fog and in every direction in the dark, sure. But it’s not required for the job at hand.
Humans don’t drive on sight alone.
Uhhhh… What the fuck else are the rest of you using?!
One obvious sense is hearing, as in hearing things like sirens to move out of the way.
My probing cane.
Senses to support your sight when driving? Hearing and Balance come to mind, in that order of importance as supporting senses.
I have no idea what sense of balance has to do with driving a car and even deaf people can get a driver’s license but okay. How’s this an argument for LIDAR again? It does not have anything to do with either of those things.
FSD
What’s the human equivalent for lidar then?
That’s like asking what the human equivalent of a GPU is. There isn’t one nor would there be because humans and computers are fundamentally different things.
Sound? Though I guess all the fancy expensive cars remove this feedback
You have eyes that are way more amazing than any cameras that are used in self driving, with stereoscopic vision, on a movable platform, and most importantly, controlled via a biological brain with millions of years of evolution behind it.
I’m sorry, you can’t attach a couple cameras to a processor, add some neural nets, and think it’s anything close to your brain and eyes.
I remember watching a video talking about is there a camera that can see as well as a human eye. The resolution was there are cameras that see close but not as well and they are very big and expensive and the human brain filters much of it without you realizing. I think it could be done with a camera or two but I think we are not close to the technology for the near future.
deleted by creator
Do you have CCDs in your head? No? This argument is always so broken it’s insane to see it still typed out as anything but sarcasm.
Do you have lidar on your head?
Nope,
And that’s exactly why humans crash. Constantly.
Even when paying attention.
They don’t have resolution in depth perception, nor the FOV.
And that’s exactly why humans crash. Constantly.
No it isn’t. Anywhere in the world the vast majority of crashes are caused by negligence, speeding, distraction, all factors that can be avoided without increasing our depth perception accuracy.
A lot of LIDAR fans here for some reason, but you’re absolutely right.
There’s just not a good amount of evidence pointing that accurate depth perception only obtained through LIDAR is required for self driving, and it also won’t solve the complex navigation of a real world scenario. A set of visible spectrum cameras over time can reconstruct a 3D environment well enough for navigation and it’s quite literally what Tesla’s FSD does.
I don’t know why someone would still say it’s not possible when we already have an example running in production.
“But Tesla FSD has a high disengagement rate” - for now, yes. But these scenarios are more often possible to be solved by high definition maps than by LIDAR. For anyone that disagrees, go to youtube, choose a recent video of Tesla’s FSD and try to find a scenario where a disengagement would have been avoided by LIDAR only.
There are many parts missing for a complete autonomous driving experience. LIDAR is not one of them.
The elephant in the room is that the NHTSA still doesn’t have a director, and hasn’t had a long-term director since 2017.
Steven Cliff was the director for 2 months in 2022. Aside from that, this important safety organization has been… erm… on autopilot (see what I did there?) and leaderless.
How are we supposed to keep tabs on car safety if the damn agency in charge of automobile safety doesn’t even have a leader?
[https://motherfrunker.ca/fsd/](Tesla FSD Timeline)
TBF, we have achieved a FSD that is safer than one human this year. But we took away the driver license of grandma so now we have to find another human that’s worse than FSD.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Back in 2016, Tesla CEO Elon Musk stunned the automotive world by announcing that, henceforth, all of his company’s vehicles would be shipped with the hardware necessary for “full self-driving.” You will be able to nap in your car while it drives you to work, he promised.
But while Musk would eventually ship an advanced driver-assist system that he called Full Self-Driving (FSD) beta, the idea that any Tesla owner could catch some z’s while their car whisks them along is, at best, laughable — and at worst, a profoundly fatal error.
Since that 2016 announcement, hundreds of fully driverless cars have rolled out in multiple US cities, and none of them bear the Tesla logo.
His supporters point to the success of Autopilot, and then FSD, as evidence that while his promises may not exactly line up with reality, he is still at the forefront of a societal shift from human-powered vehicles to ones piloted by AI.
You’ll also hear from a former Tesla employee who was fired after posting videos of FSD errors, experts who compare the company’s self-driving efforts to its competitors, and even from the competitors themselves — like Kyle Vogt, CEO of the General Motors-backed Cruise, who is unconvinced that Musk can fulfill his promises without rethinking his entire hardware strategy.
Listen to the latest episode of Land of the Giants: The Tesla Shock Wave, a co-production between The Verge and the Vox Media Podcast Network.
The original article contains 497 words, the summary contains 236 words. Saved 53%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
I’ve been ranting about this since 2016.
Having consumer trust in developing AI vehicles is hard enough without this asshole’s ego and lies muddying the water.
Tesla’s software is not safe:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/06/10/tesla-autopilot-crashes-elon-musk/
I wonder how this statistically compares to non-Tesla crashes?
Edit: quick Google/math shows average rate of lethal automobile crashes at 12 per 100,000 drivers. Tesla has supposedly sold 4.5million cars. 4.5million divided by 17 deaths from the article = 1 death per 200,000 Tesla drivers.
This isn’t exactly apples-to-apples and would love for some to “do the math” more accurately, but it seems like Tesla is much safer than a standard driver.
The other confounding factor is we don’t know how many of these drivers were abusing autopilot by cheating the rules (it requires hands on the wheel and full attention on the road)
Your statistical analysis is so bad that it’s not even wrong. It’s just a pile of disparate data strung together with false assumptions.
So all of those Teslas were sold in America? And all 4.5 million of those Teslas have Autopilot? And they’re in Autopilot mode 100% of the time?
You forgot the most important issue: Tesla drivers are not representative of the average driver. They have more money and more education. They live in places with nicer weather. These all contribute to lower crash rates without self driving. I bet high end Mercedes have lower crash rates too, because people don’t defer maintenance and then drive them crazily in the snow.
Compare apples to apples and I bet Teslas have average crash rates for luxury cars.
Why don’t you support your hypothesis with data?
deleted by creator
Fix it for me then daddi
The true comparison is in miles per accident. Fatal accidents will be higher for older model cars. Not all Tesla cars have FSD. In many situations FSD is not available even on equipped cars. There is nothing to indicate from the current data that Telsa FSD is safer or more dangerous than the median driver.
This isn’t necessarily true either. The NHTSA Standing General Order data shows that Tesla reports a large number of crashes (which they get to cherry pick in a LOT of cases) under ADAS use compared to other brands. Taking conservative rollout numbers from companies like Honda shows that the crash per ADAS equipped vehicle rate is significantly higher.
The real red flag in all all of this is that Tesla’s own reported marketing numbers for ADAS crashes wasn’t declining with newer releases over time. A rate that doesn’t improve as the CEO claims the software is already performing better than humans should instantly discredit the software, its performance, and any claims about new or improving features.
Let’s see it, show me the numbers! Everyone’s critiquing my quick mental math but I don’t see anyone contributing to fix it 🤷♀️. Will edit comment once I do!
this math is too sloppy to draw any conclusions
Whatabout what your mom does, down by the docks at night?
deleted by creator
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/xvqQ4F7Yf2o?si=3tMs2_aHpnfqKCBu
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Why are u downvoted
deleted by creator
Yes wow, you guys are so brave “going against the narrative” by supporting some billionaire
