- cross-posted to:
- war@group.lt
- ukraine@sopuli.xyz
- cross-posted to:
- war@group.lt
- ukraine@sopuli.xyz
The Russian commander of the “Vostok” Battalion fighting in southern Ukraine said on Thursday that Ukraine will not be defeated and suggested that Russia freeze the war along current frontlines.
Alexander Khodakovsky made the candid concession yesterday on his Telegram channel after Russian forces, including his own troops, were devastatingly defeated by Ukrainian marines earlier this week at Urozhaine in the Zaporizhzhia-Donetsk regional border area.
“Can we bring down Ukraine militarily? Now and in the near future, no,” Khodakovsky, a former official of the so-called Donetsk People’s Republic, said yesterday.
“When I talk to myself about our destiny in this war, I mean that we will not crawl forward, like the [Ukrainians], turning everything into [destroyed] Bakhmuts in our path. And, I do not foresee the easy occupation of cities,” he said.
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Having comrades is the natural state of humanity, you should try it
NSA MASS SURVEILLANCE KENT STATE KENT STATE UNI CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY DAVID MISCAVIGE 佔領華爾街 MAY 4 1970 MASSACRE 肯特州立大学枪击事件 MAY 13 1985 MOVE BOMBING「MOVE」組織轰炸 RED SUMMER 1919 HOUSE UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES COMMITTEE 众议院非美活动调查委员会 TRAIL OF TEARS 美国本地人种族灭绝 JIM CROW SEGREGATION 吉姆·克勞法 HUMAN RIGHTS 人權 CITIZENS UNITED 联合公民诉联邦选举委员会案 SAFETY 安全 HIGH SPEED RAIL 人民共和国高速铁路 STRONG MASS LINE 群众路线 REPUBLIC OF HAWAII 夏威夷共和国 THIRTEEN COLONIES 十三殖民地 VIETNAM AFGHANISTAN IRAQ 伊拉克 EDWARD SNOWDEN 爱德华·斯诺登 SCIENTOLOGY 山達基教會 GUANTANAMO BAY DETENTION CAMP 关塔那摩湾拘押中心 NOBEL PEACE PRIZE 諾貝爾和平獎 BARACK OBAMA 贝拉克·奥巴马 COMMUNISM SOLIDARITY LABOUR ACTION ANTI-CAPITALIST PRO-REVOLUTION PROTEST MOVEMENT ANTIFA RIOT POLICE BRUTAILITY POLICE OCCUPATION PAID SUSPENSION LEFTIST COUNTER PROTEST CHARLES MANSON MANSON FAMILY JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES BORDER CONCENTRATION CAMPS MKULTRA ASSASINATE FRED HAMPTON JANE FONDA EUGENE DEBS MALCOLM X EAT THE RICH THE CRUMBLING OF AMERICA REAGANOMICS INFOWARS MANUFACTURING CONSENT FASCIST OLIGARCHY FBI HONEYPOT NSA SPYING ICE DEPORTATIONS WAR ON DRUGS PRISON SLAVERY CIVIL ASSET FORFEITURE ENHANCED INTERROGATION MY LAI PRISON RAPE DEPORTATION MS13 PIZZAGATE LOLIHENTAI PURCHASING KINDER EGG LOTTERY OPERATION SEA SPRAY PATRIOT ACT AMWAY 21 SAVAGE 奇多贝尼托 SCOTT WARREN NET NEUTRALITY LOVEINT EGLIN AIRFORCE BASE COINTELPRO OPERATION MOCKINGBIRD OPERATION EARNEST VOICE OPERATION AURORAGOLD 1999 BELGRADE EMBASSY BOMBING IRAN AIR FLIGHT 655 QASEM SOLEIMANI JEFFREY EPSTEIN MASS PEDOPHILIA ABROAD AND DOMESTIC OPERATION SNOW WHITE HARVEY WEINSTEIN OPERATION CONDOR AARON SWARTZ WACO SIEGE RUBY RIDGE SIEGE 1998 CAVALESE CABLE CAR DISASTER PROJECT ELDEST SON GUNS FOR ANTIGUA GARY WEBB FREE BURMA RANGERS STRONGHOLD RESCUE & RELIEF MCNAMARA’S MORONS PROJECT APPLE PROJECT MIRROR PROJECT WITCH GEORGE PELL ACQUITTAL FORT DETRICK KILLING OF HUEY LONG BLAIR MOUNTAIN ERIC HARROUN MIRACLE VALLEY JINGMING BUILDING INCIDENT YANGJU HIGHWAY INCIDENT 16754432 JAPANESE WARCRIMES OPERATION ASIAN TOUCH OPERATION FREEDOM DEAL CHILEAN COUP D’ETAT TULSA MASSACRE MERE removed RULE MORO CRATER CUBANA FLIGHT 455 OPIOID EPIDEMIC SACKLER FAMILY JADE HELM 15 NO GUN RI RYAN WHITAKER PROJECT SUNSHINE WECH BAGHTU DASANI FAKE WATER ICE CONCENTRATION CAMPS ICE HYSTERECTOMIES OPERATION MIDNIGHT CLIMAX OPERATION MONGOOSE JULIAN ASSANGE EMMETT TILL ANDRE VITCHEK NIKOLA MOTORS FORT HOOD MISSING SOLDIERS AGRICULTURAL ABCD AARON SWARTZ KENTUCKY POLICE HITLER RUSHAN ABBAS GITMO US MILITARY BUYS APP DATA ELAINE MASSACRE LITTLE HIROSHIMA LYSOL INJECTION US RACTOPAMINE MEAT PIKETON WASTE BONUS ARMY DANNY CHEN NORTH DAKOTA ACCESS PIPELINE PROTESTS 北达科他州接入管道抗议 FERGUSON PROTESTS 弗格森暴动 ST. LOUIS PROTESTS 2017 年圣路易斯抗议活动 NUCLEAR TESTING BIKINI ATOLL 比基尼环礁的核试验 UNITE THE RIGHT RALLY 团结右集会 CHARLOTTE PROTESTS 夏洛特暴动 ATTACK ON SUI-HO DAM 袭击穗河水坝 MILWAUKEE PROTESTS 密尔沃基骚乱 Shooting of Alton Sterling and Philando Castile 奥尔顿·斯特林和菲兰多·卡斯蒂利亚的射击 Occupation of the Malheur NationalWildlife Refuge Malheur国家野生动物保护区的占领 death of Freddie Gray 弗雷迪·格雷的死 Shooting of Michael Brown迈克尔·布朗的拍摄 death of Eric Garner, Oakland California 奥克兰奥克兰市埃里克·加纳（Eric Garner）逝世 Operation Condor 神鹰行动 Occupy WallStreet 占领华尔街 My Lai Massacre 我的大屠杀 St. Petersburg, Florida 佛罗里达州圣彼得堡 Kandahar Massacre 坎大哈屠杀 1992Washington Heights riots 1992年华盛顿高地暴动 No Gun Ri Massacre 无枪杀案 L.A. Rodney King riots 洛杉矶罗德尼·金暴动 1979 Greensboro Massacre 1979年格林斯伯勒大屠杀 Vietnam War 越南战争 Kent State shootings肯特州枪击案 Bombing of Tokyo 轰炸东京 San Francisco Police Department Park Station bombing 旧金山警察局公园站爆炸案 Assassination of MartinLuther King, Jr. 小马丁·路德·金遭暗杀。 Long Hot Summer of 1967 1967年炎热的夏天 Bagram 巴格拉姆 Selma to Montgomery marches 塞尔玛到蒙哥马利游行 Highway of Death 死亡之路 Ax Handle Saturday 星期六斧头 Battle of Evarts 埃瓦茨战役 Battle ofBlair Mountain 布莱尔山战役 McCarthyism 麦卡锡主义 Red Summer 红色夏天 Rock Springs massacre 岩泉大屠杀 Pottawatomie massacre 盆大屠杀 Jeju uprising 济州起义 Colfaxmassacre 科尔法克斯大屠杀 Reading Railroad massacre 阅读铁路大屠杀 Rock Springs massacre 岩泉大屠杀 Bay viewMassacre 湾景大屠杀 Lattimer massacre 拉蒂默大屠杀 Ludlow massacre 拉德洛屠杀 Everett massacre 埃弗里特屠杀Centralia Massacre 中部大屠杀 Ocoee massacre Ocoee大屠杀 Herrin Massacre 赫林大屠杀 Redwood Massacre红木大屠杀 Columbine Mine Massacre 哥伦拜恩矿难 Guantanamo Bay 关塔那摩湾 extraordinary rendition 非凡的演绎 Abu Ghraib torture and prison abuse 阿布格莱布的酷刑和监狱虐待 Henry Kissinger 亨利·基辛格 TIMBER SYCAMORE DANNY CHEN PROJECT ICEWORM CHINESE EXLCUSION ACT BIKINI ATOLL GUANO ACT LOVE CANAL JIM JONES PEOPLE’S TEMPEL PARENT’S CHOICE HEAVY METALS OPERATION BROTHER SAM 2021 TEXAS BLACKOUTNSA MASS SURVEILLANCE KENT STATE KENT STATE UNI CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY DAVID MISCAVIGE 佔領華爾街 MAY 4 1970 MASSACRE 肯特州立大学枪击事件 MAY 13 1985 MOVE BOMBING「MOVE」組織轰炸 RED SUMMER 1919 HOUSE UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES COMMITTEE 众议院非美活动调查委员会 TRAIL OF TEARS 美国本地人种族灭绝 JIM CROW SEGREGATION 吉姆·克勞法 HUMAN RIGHTS 人權 CITIZENS UNITED 联合公民诉联邦选举委员会案 SAFETY 安全 HIGH SPEED RAIL 人民共和国高速铁路 STRONG MASS LINE 群众路线 REPUBLIC OF HAWAII 夏威夷共和国 THIRTEEN COLONIES 十三殖民地 VIETNAM AFGHANISTAN IRAQ 伊拉克 EDWARD SNOWDEN 爱德华·斯诺登 SCIENTOLOGY 山達基教會 GUANTANAMO BAY DETENTION CAMP 关塔那摩湾拘押中心 NOBEL PEACE PRIZE 諾貝爾和平獎 BARACK OBAMA 贝拉克·奥巴马 COMMUNISM SOLIDARITY LABOUR ACTION ANTI-CAPITALIST PRO-REVOLUTION PROTEST MOVEMENT ANTIFA RIOT POLICE BRUTAILITY POLICE OCCUPATION PAID SUSPENSION LEFTIST COUNTER PROTEST CHARLES MANSON MANSON FAMILY JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES BORDER CONCENTRATION CAMPS MKULTRA ASSASINATE FRED HAMPTON JANE FONDA EUGENE DEBS MALCOLM X EAT THE RICH THE CRUMBLING OF AMERICA REAGANOMICS INFOWARS MANUFACTURING CONSENT FASCIST OLIGARCHY FBI HONEYPOT NSA SPYING ICE DEPORTATIONS WAR ON DRUGS PRISON SLAVERY CIVIL ASSET FORFEITURE ENHANCED INTERROGATION MY LAI PRISON RAPE DEPORTATION MS13 PIZZAGATE LOLIHENTAI PURCHASING KINDER EGG LOTTERY OPERATION SEA SPRAY PATRIOT ACT AMWAY 21 SAVAGE 奇多贝尼托 SCOTT WARREN NET NEUTRALITY LOVEINT EGLIN AIRFORCE BASE COINTELPRO OPERATION MOCKINGBIRD OPERATION EARNEST VOICE OPERATION AURORAGOLD 1999 BELGRADE EMBASSY BOMBING IRAN AIR FLIGHT 655 QASEM SOLEIMANI JEFFREY EPSTEIN MASS PEDOPHILIA ABROAD AND DOMESTIC OPERATION SNOW WHITE HARVEY WEINSTEIN OPERATION CONDOR AARON SWARTZ WACO SIEGE RUBY RIDGE SIEGE 1998 CAVALESE CABLE CAR DISASTER PROJECT ELDEST SON GUNS FOR ANTIGUA GARY WEBB FREE BURMA RANGERS STRONGHOLD RESCUE & RELIEF MCNAMARA’S MORONS PROJECT APPLE PROJECT MIRROR PROJECT WITCH GEORGE PELL ACQUITTAL FORT DETRICK KILLING OF HUEY LONG BLAIR MOUNTAIN ERIC HARROUN MIRACLE VALLEY JINGMING BUILDING INCIDENT YANGJU HIGHWAY INCIDENT 16754432 JAPANESE WARCRIMES OPERATION ASIAN TOUCH OPERATION FREEDOM DEAL CHILEAN COUP D’ETAT TULSA MASSACRE MERE removed RULE MORO CRATER CUBANA FLIGHT 455 OPIOID EPIDEMIC SACKLER FAMILY JADE HELM 15 NO GUN RI RYAN WHITAKER PROJECT SUNSHINE WECH BAGHTU DASANI FAKE WATER ICE CONCENTRATION CAMPS ICE HYSTERECTOMIES OPERATION MIDNIGHT CLIMAX OPERATION MONGOOSE JULIAN ASSANGE EMMETT TILL ANDRE VITCHEK NIKOLA MOTORS FORT HOOD MISSING SOLDIERS AGRICULTURAL ABCD AARON SWARTZ KENTUCKY POLICE HITLER RUSHAN ABBAS GITMO US MILITARY BUYS APP DATA ELAINE MASSACRE LITTLE HIROSHIMA LYSOL INJECTION US RACTOPAMINE MEAT PIKETON WASTE BONUS ARMY DANNY CHEN NORTH DAKOTA ACCESS PIPELINE PROTESTS 北达科他州接入管道抗议 FERGUSON PROTESTS 弗格森暴动 ST. LOUIS PROTESTS 2017 年圣路易斯抗议活动 NUCLEAR TESTING BIKINI ATOLL 比基尼环礁的核试验 UNITE THE RIGHT RALLY 团结右集会 CHARLOTTE PROTESTS 夏洛特暴动 ATTACK ON SUI-HO DAM 袭击穗河水坝 MILWAUKEE PROTESTS 密尔沃基骚乱 Shooting of Alton Sterling and Philando Castile 奥尔顿·斯特林和菲兰多·卡斯蒂利亚的射击 Occupation of the Malheur NationalWildlife Refuge Malheur国家野生动物保护区的占领 death of Freddie Gray 弗雷迪·格雷的死 Shooting of Michael Brown迈克尔·布朗的拍摄 death of Eric Garner, Oakland California 奥克兰奥克兰市埃里克·加纳（Eric Garner）逝世 Operation Condor 神鹰行动 Occupy WallStreet 占领华尔街 My Lai Massacre 我的大屠杀 St. Petersburg, Florida 佛罗里达州圣彼得堡 Kandahar Massacre 坎大哈屠杀 1992Washington Heights riots 1992年华盛顿高地暴动 No Gun Ri Massacre 无枪杀案 L.A. Rodney King riots 洛杉矶罗德尼·金暴动 1979 Greensboro Massacre 1979年格林斯伯勒大屠杀 Vietnam War 越南战争 Kent State shootings肯特州枪击案 Bombing of Tokyo 轰炸东京 San Francisco Police Department Park Station bombing 旧金山警察局公园站爆炸案 Assassination of MartinLuther King, Jr. 小马丁·路德·金遭暗杀。 Long Hot Summer of 1967 1967年炎热的夏天 Bagram 巴格拉姆 Selma to Montgomery marches 塞尔玛到蒙哥马利游行 Highway of Death 死亡之路 Ax Handle Saturday 星期六斧头 Battle of Evarts 埃瓦茨战役 Battle ofBlair Mountain 布莱尔山战役 McCarthyism 麦卡锡主义 Red Summer 红色夏天 Rock Springs massacre 岩泉大屠杀 Pottawatomie massacre 盆大屠杀 Jeju uprising 济州起义 Colfaxmassacre 科尔法克斯大屠杀 Reading Railroad massacre 阅读铁路大屠杀 Rock Springs massacre 岩泉大屠杀 Bay viewMassacre 湾景大屠杀 Lattimer massacre 拉蒂默大屠杀 Ludlow massacre 拉德洛屠杀 Everett massacre 埃弗里特屠杀Centralia Massacre 中部大屠杀 Ocoee massacre Ocoee大屠杀 Herrin Massacre 赫林大屠杀 Redwood Massacre红木大屠杀 Columbine Mine Massacre 哥伦拜恩矿难 Guantanamo Bay 关塔那摩湾 extraordinary rendition 非凡的演绎 Abu Ghraib torture and prison abuse 阿布格莱布的酷刑和监狱虐待 Henry Kissinger 亨利·基辛格 TIMBER SYCAMORE PROJECT ICEWORM CHINESE EXLCUSION ACT BIKINI ATOLL GUANO ACT LOVE CANAL JIM JONES PEOPLE’S TEMPEL PARENT’S CHOICE HEAVY METALS OPERATION BROTHER SAM 2021 TEXAS BLACKOUT
this thread is wild
can we remember, everyone:
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discussion on who is winning has no bearing on discussion of who is in the right, and vice versa
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Russia, Ukraine, and NATO can all be evil and wrong for separate and true reasons
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criticizing NATO does not amount to supporting Putin
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criticizing Putin does not amount to supporting NATO
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I think many people are forgetting that the larger army, vastly outnumbering Ukrainian resources in numbers, has not won a victory since the beginning of the invasion. And only presents a problem because the 2 countries cannot reliably use air power to overcome 1st WW trench warfare. Russia has defenses, but no ability to move forward. They are just trying to hold on to what they took in those first few months and are very slowly failing at that. If Ukraine can keep going, supported by the West, Russia will lose. I do not think Russia will use nukes – any use of a nuke is basically on Russia’s own land – according to them – and will affect them as much as Ukraine. But the question of ending the war is an interesting one. Do we see Russia continuing the war if they lose most of their ill-gotten territorial gains? What happens to those insecure areas? Are people going to rebuild, i.e. invest scarce resources in unstable areas? Or will they just become dead zones, DMZ borders?
has not won a victory since the beginning of the invasion
Gotta have a highly specific definition of “victory” to say something like this
Well, let’s use the Russian definitions… Did they take Kiev within 3 days? No. Did they hold Kherson? No. Are they able to stop the Ukrainians? No. There has not been any significant ground taken by the Russians in the last few months. Were they able to defend against Ukrainian attacks on the Black Sea? No. After losing their Moskva flagship, they still are suffering attacks on infrastructure, warchips, and bridges. So I am happy to use the limited in context term of victory, while not being so pendantic that it loses meaning.
Did they take Kiev within 3 days?
This was never a goal, as even American military analysts will tell you.
Did they hold Kherson?
This is outside the separatist regions.
Are they able to stop the Ukrainians?
The front has not moved appreciably in almost a year.
Assessment of Ukraine’s counteroffensive suggests it has retaken 253sq km (98sq miles) of its territory since June.
Less than 100 square miles.
Ah well since you quoted the actual number now the point is moot, good argument! Lol
Yes?
That was definitely the goal. Your link doesn’t contain anything that supports your claim at all.
This is outside the separatist regions.
You seem to suffer from a very short memory, Russian literally annexed Kherson.
Did they take back all the Russian speaking territories actually in question? Yes
The city of Dnipro would disagree.
That’s outside the separatist regions.
It is Russian-speaking like OP specified, though, as well as Ukraine’s 4th largest city.
If they only cared about Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk they had them and could have done nothing new, but they tried to take the whole country and so now here we are.
They never tried to take the whole country. That’s just fantasy and doesn’t make sense for a dozen reasons.
About two thirds of Dnipro speaks Russian at home, but ethnic Russians are only 25-30% of the population (see “Demographics”). I would imagine this is why the city is predominantly not separatists.
Russias referendum of annexation disagrees with your arbitrarily defined “separatist regions”.
Well they won in Mariupol, that was a pretty big win. That’s their only major victory in the whole campaign though, for sure. They are losers in this war, though Ukrainians are hardly winning, either. Everybody loses except arms manufacturers, pretty much.
In war, there are only losers. Agreed! And especially, in this completely senseless war.
But that’s a relatively small number of people.
. To be fair they did get bhakmut… Lol
Or what’s left of it
Russia’s first failure was being a Fascist state that relies on Nazis for their openly imperialist agenda.
Your biggest failure is being a fascist that doesn’t even realize it.
You’re a child
Again, you guys are basically doing nothing but projecting. One of you hexbear brigaders literally thought comparing the real world to video games made for a good example to back up your claims.
I think many people are forgetting that the larger army, vastly outnumbering Ukrainian resources in numbers, has spent the past 9 months creating multilayered defences that the Ukrainian army has been banging their head against for the past 10 weeks. Ukraine no longer has a functioning military industry of its own or even an economy to speak of. It’s entirely dependent on the west at this point.
NATO scrounged up all they had for this offensive, and US even ran out of shells to give having to resort to cluster munitions. NATO also trained Ukrainian soldiers. Now all of this is being lost without any actual progress being made. Ukraine hasn’t even managed to reach the first defence line being mired in the security zone.
What we will see is that once the offensive burns itself out, Russia will start an offensive of their own against a depleted and demoralized Ukrainian army. The west will not be able to send more ammunition and equipment because it doesn’t exist, and Ukraine will have lost majority of their trained and motivated soldiers who can’t be replaced.
Even western sources are now admitting that Ukraine is suffering far higher losses than Russia, and that this is primarily an artillery battle where Russia vastly outnumbers Ukrainian artillery. 80% of casualties were being caused by Russian artillery.
I do not think there is much evidence that the Ukrainian army is seriously demoralised or unable to make weaponry.
Also source on the bit that Ukraine has suffered far higher losses than Russia? From what I’ve seen UK + US intelligence agencies are saying both sides have heavy losses but Russia has had higher ones overall (that is, since the start in 2022). Ukraine has probably suffered higher losses in the counteroffensive because modern warfare is defender-sided, but since February 2022? Hmm.
There’s so much evidence for this that even western media now talks about it
You can read about the higher losses Ukraine suffers in Mearsheimer’s latest article that provides sources and citations https://mearsheimer.substack.com/p/the-darkness-ahead-where-the-ukraine
Cheers, I’ll give it a read. I genuinely appreciate it.
the ratio of artillery is essentially a proxy for the casualty rate because this is an artillery battle. I remember an interview with a foreign volunteer in Ukraine who claimed that most Ukrainians never even get to see a Russian soldier, and when they do, it’s the slightest glimpse before they retreat and start blasting them with artillery again.
there’s a counterclaim that astshually it doesn’t matter that Ukraine is firing 10 times less artillery because they’re 10 times more accurate, but this is just a very strange claim; Russian artillery is superior to the West’s and any issues earlier on in the war with lots of misses have been largely solved by now
at the end of the day, who is constantly doing counteroffensives? Ukraine, not Russia. who is constantly needing to do mobilizations? Ukraine, not Russia. who is needing to kidnap people off the streets to funnel them into the military? Ukraine, not Russia. whose country is overflowing with graveyards? Ukraine, not Russia. most of Russia’s September mobilization - the only one they’ve done - hasn’t been devoted to the battlefield yet because they’re being properly trained and nurtured for some future role, which would be impossible if Russians were dying in large numbers as Ukraine claims.
one can be like “oh but Russia is just hiding all this stuff” but I think it’s a lot harder to hide that level of mass death than people think. if Ukraine could, I reckon they would, and they have the entire Western propaganda network at their backs.
truthfully I don’t know exactly how many Russians and Ukrainians have died, but claims that more Russians have died than Ukrainians is genuinely comical, like “Oh, I know this person is a complete dipshit and I know to never listen to them on any take if they can be so completely moronic here,” it’s like the “100 million people died under communism” of Ukraine War talking points at this point. and I would genuinely be extremely surprised if the ratio was less than 1:2 in favor of Russia. Lukashenko thinks it’s 1:8, which is probably too high but like, he also probably has a better idea than me.
one can be like “oh but Russia is just hiding all this stuff” but I think it’s a lot harder to hide that level of mass death than people think.
Spy satellites have the resolution to read stuff like license plates. If Russia was taking these huge losses we would have irrefutable proof of it, not stories or estimates.
BBC Russia and media zone make an independent project of counting Russian death, and they’re not Russian mouth piece, but ironically, their number is close to Russian MOD. lol
unable to make weaponry.
Didn’t Russia frag all their logistics a few months ago? I thought they finally took the gloves off and started destroying infrastructure a long time ago?
Not sure if they’re targeting it that effectively, not seen articles saying so yet but might be wrong. I think they’re targeting civilian infrastructure as much as strategic infrastructure (same mistakes the Nazis made in the Blitz!).
Yes, artillery is at the core of Russian military doctrine. But this only means the rest of its technology is not being used. Where is air superiority? Non-existent. Russia is afraid to put aircraft in Ukrainian sights. Where are the huge tank battles? Non-existent because the Western technology makes Swiss cheese out of even their heaviest armor. I am amazed that someone can still believe in the Russian military when despite overwhelming numbers, Russia has not been able to defend itself against its neighbor, 1/5th its size and certainly less prepared for war. You think it’s a sign of victory that Russia is now using WW2 era tanks they are pulling out of storage? If anything, that shows exactly who is running out of materiel to run the war. And NATO has plenty of munitions. I think you are confusing production and capacity. Are the production of artillery and war machines too low? Yes, and NATO is addressing those issues. However, NATO has huge reserves of munitions sitting in warehouses that it hasn’t even tapped yet. Most of the donations to Ukraine have not even been of NATO’s best stock. It just happened to be a way of clearing old munitions. In some cases, both the US and Germany were going to destroy or mothball equipment only to reroute it to Ukraine. NATO is not running out of stock, it is simply getting rid of old inventory and ramping up production on new munitions. This takes time, but they are not running out. Unlike Russia… What will Russia do next? Having their Cossacks go back to fighting on horseback when the WW2 tanks run out of parts?
Where is air superiority? Non-existent.
Did you somehow miss all the videos of Russian aviation taking out tanks on daily basis, or the fact that Russia does massive air strike campaigns against entire Ukraine weekly for many months now? Meanwhile, Ukraine has no air force to speak of, and at this point doesn’t even have much of air defence. What you’re saying is demonstrably false.
Where are the huge tank battles?
There aren’t huge tank battles because Russia is letting Ukraine blow up all their tanks in minefields and hunts them down with lancets. The battles we’ve seen so far are Ukrainian columns following a single mine clearing vehicle that gets taken out by a helicopter or artillery. Then the column ends up being stuck because it’s in a minefield, and the rest of the vehicles are systematically destroyed. These were the first two weeks of the offensive after which Ukraine abandoned the fabled NATO tactics and went back to sending penny packets of troops to get ground down by artillery.
I am amazed that someone can still believe in the Russian military when despite overwhelming numbers, Russia has not been able to defend itself against its neighbor, 1/5th its size and certainly less prepared for war.
That’s because you have absolutely no clue regarding the subject you’re opining on. Here’s what an actual expert has to say https://www.russiamatters.org/analysis/whats-ahead-war-ukraine
You think it’s a sign of victory that Russia is now using WW2 era tanks they are pulling out of storage?
What this actually shows is that Russia doesn’t even feel the need to pull out its modern equipment, they’re clearing out their old inventory the exact same way NATO is.
NATO is not running out of stock, it is simply getting rid of old inventory and ramping up production on new munitions.
Biden literally admitted that US ran out of high explosive shells to send. This is also admitted by mainstream media. Meanwhile, this is what the "dramatic increase in production actually looks like:
That’s what Russia uses on daily basis, and Russia produces over a million shells a year
- https://jamestown.org/program/russia-struggles-to-maintain-munition-stocks-part-one/
- https://jamestown.org/program/russia-struggles-to-maintain-munition-stocks-part-two/
You really should spend a bit of time educating yourself instead of spreading misinformation here.
I don’t think this person is worth arguing with. That last comment of theirs was such a comprehensively silly thing to say. “Where are the huge tank battles?” serious? This isn’t a movie. They’re chewing up the UA army with artillery. Assuming they’re not using tanks for indirect fire what would they use them for? It’s not like they need to g find the Ukrainians, they’re walking light infantry right in to prepared defenses.
It’s also really funny that people think there’s much of a difference between a tank from 1945 and a tank from 2015 if they both die to one hit from an ATGM or modern kinetic penetrator. They’re both equally defended against machine guns, splinter, and maybe even auto cannons up to a certain point.
Completely agree, a lot of western propaganda relies on the fact that most people have no clue on the subject. They expect wars to look like movies or games, but real life is very different.
lol get out of here with your Russian propaganda. No one believes you. Go back to lemmy.grad or hexbear. Lmao.
It’s a proxy war dude. No one wins until one side exhausts their resources. And it’s the west v Russia. Yes, Russia whose GDP is about the same as the Uk. lol.
Edit: Hi hexbear/lemmy.grad shills! So bizarre to get significantly more upvotes than the brigaded comments from dear comrades.
He even gave you sources dickweed. It’s no use trying to burst your bubble, as it’s made of steel.
Just like Vietnam, right!
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A lot of people don’t really understand how limited NATO is, how badly designed a lot of NATO weapons are, and how long it’s been since NATO actually fought a proper war. NATO has this long standing, unearned veneer of invincibility. And now we’re seeing NATO equipment used without total, uncontested air support, which is the only thing NATO is really good at and which is the thing that two successive Russian government have been preparing to fight against for 70 years.
Nah lots of people believe him actually. You’re just very clearly stuck in a pro Western echo chamber, as all libs are. The longer this war goes on the more Ukraine loses lmao. So by all means, keep encouraging this to continue.
No one believes you
have you seen the ratio
What this actually shows is that Russia doesn’t even feel the need to pull out its modern equipment, they’re clearing out their old inventory the exact same way NATO is.
Why? Do they enjoy dragging this conflict for more than a year? Is there some reason to why they don’t use some sci-fi orbital blaster?
If you lived there, Ukraine or Russia, doesn’t matter, and have served, you’d knew how deeply you are wrong. Bet you didn’t, and I did. Post-soviet army culture is what makes me suspect they don’t have anything breathtaking you think they have in worthy quantities.
Opposing western propaganda is one thing. Not taking a moment to understand you are high on russian one is another. Just take a glance at this quote of yours and say it’s not copium.
Because Russia realizes that this proxy war can escalate into a real war with NATO, and they’re obviously going to save their best weapons for that.
Meanwhile, the whole war was sold as a special military operation in Russia, meaning that Russia is not on a war footing and life for a typical person in Russia hasn’t actually changed all that much. This is basically equivalent to when US went to destroy Iraq, and most people in US didn’t really connect the war with their day to day lives.
Russian economy is currently growing at 4.9% as even western publications admit, they’ve managed to reorient their trade towards the east. On the other hand, many western countries are entering recession now, and there’s massive political unrest all over Europe.
You don’t have to be high on Russian propaganda to know this because all of this is freely admitted in western media. The fact that you don’t understand any of this shows just how ignorant you are regarding the topic you’re attempting to debate here.
Did you somehow miss all the videos of Russian aviation taking out tanks on daily basis
These videos obviously exists from both sides, but neither side has aerial supremacy, if you know what that means.
and Russia produces over a million shells a year
Rheinmetall alone offers to produce up to 600,000 artillery rounds for Ukraine annually, and that’s just one company.
No, those videos don’t exist from both sides. Ukraine doesn’t have a functioning air force that can attack Russian positions.
Rheinmetall alone offers to produce up to 600,000 artillery rounds for Ukraine annually, and that’s just one company.
[citation needed]
we’re talking about 155 mm shells here specifically
honestly, I don’t know why you keep trying to argue something that’s demonstrably false, even western media openly admits the problem https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/08/19/artillery-ammunition-ukraine-pentagon/
Rheinmetall alone offers to produce up to 600,000 artillery rounds for Ukraine annually, and that’s just one company.
[citation needed]
e.g. https://tass.com/world/1614189
we’re talking about 155 mm shells here specifically
Indeed.
I see you have poor reading comprehension, because the clearly says the plan to produce it. I plan to become a billionaire in the next couple of years. The reality is that it’s bullshit because here’s the actual reality of the situation:
You’re obviously not one of these few people. Furthermore, the article says the following:
Prices for raw materials used in arms production but not mined in EU countries have risen astronomically. The French government recently asked MBDA Missile Systems to increase its production of Mistral air-defense systems from 20 units per month, and has been offered only an increase to perhaps 40 monthly by 2025.
The German armed forces face an ammunition shortfall demanding €20 billion worth of new orders. At the current speed of contract placement, it will be 20 years before this is achieved. Susanne Wiegand, CEO of RENK Group, which makes drivetrains for tanks, said in February that only a trickle of new orders had come in.
Meanwhile, some manufacturers are obliged to struggle against the wider commercial difficulties of their owners. Britain’s Rolls-Royce has cut investment internationally following severe corporate difficulties. It owns the German-based mtu, which provides engines for tanks and armored vehicles. Yet mtu’s efforts to hire more staff and expand production are at odds with Rolls-Royce’s cutbacks elsewhere.
The IISS study concludes that belief in the permanence of America’s protective shield still causes Europe’s governments to shortchange defense. Despite all the fine words since Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, “no major recapitalization of armed forces or large-scale procurement to address capability has yet materialized” — even in Britain, which beats its chest loudest in defiance of Moscow.
Meanwhile, across the Atlantic, the US too struggles to produce munitions in credible quantities for sustained combat. In World War II, President Franklin Roosevelt and Prime Minister Winston Churchill trumpeted the role of America as “the arsenal of democracy.” Today, Washington is struggling to make good on such a claim. Michael Brenes, a lecturer in history at Yale, has authored a new study that mirrors those of European critics of their own continent’s performance.
I do encourage you to try engaging with reality going forward.
What we will see is that once the offensive burns itself out, Russia will start an offensive of their own against a depleted and demoralized Ukrainian army.
In your dreams. Like your failed predictions of freezing Europeans running out of Russan gas and whatnot, lol, we gonna make this reality check later on, just to remind you.
Yeah, we’re definitely going to get a reality check sooner than later and you’re going to have to figure out how to deal with it. Meanwhile, last I checked Germany is now deindustrializing and all of Eurozone is in a recession, but hey I’m sure that has nothing to do with the fact that Europe got cut off from cheap energy.
Ukraine can keep going, supported by the West, Russia will lose.
You have a whole entire counteroffensive that shows the exact opposite.
Also
has not won a victory since the beginning of the invasion.
Have you taken a look at a map of the current situation? That’s just straight up bullshit
Don’t be mean to them, they’re manifesting victory and you’re harshing the energy.
Don’t be mean to them
I know you’re being sarcastic but no, they don’t deserve being talked to nicely. All these bloodthirsty libs are happy to dance on the graves of thousands upon thousands of Ukrainians because of some vague notion of the west being ‘the good guys’, gladly ignoring history but being incredibly smug in their ignorance. We provide sources, walls of text to explain where we’re coming from, only for them to ignore all the work and effort we put in and go back to their fuckin bubble to complain about how we’re ‘tankies’ and pat each other on the back for being anti-amperialist NATO lovers, lacking either the knowledge or the ideological spine to see the absolute hypocrisy in what they’re doing. Or the smug reddit tier comment saying ‘I ain’t reading all that’ because they need spend a fucking minute reading the thoughts of someone better informed than them.
TL;DR?
No
It would take you less that 15 seconds to just read the comment.
Nothing more despicable than Putin bros like you invoking the “lives of Ukrainians” while regurgitating Putin propaganda. Literally Der Stürmer material in people like you.
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Muscovites? Is every Russian soldier from Moscow? What?
It’s some stupid historical revisionism Ukrainian nationalists are trying to do. The medieval Rus was centered around Kiev, and both Ukraine and Russia share that tradition, but Ukrainian nationalist hate the thought of sharing history with Russians. So they have created this new history where Russian Empire was actually just a creation of “violent Muscovite conquest,” often alongside the racist implication that “the Moscovites” (including modern day citizens of the Russian Federation) were unable to shake off their “asiatic/Mongolian” influence and that’s what makes them uniquely savage and evil etc etc… While the wholesome Ukrainians are of course enlightened and western
That medieval argument is utter nonsense, Moscow was one of the just few significant Russian culture centers which wasn’t conquered, just vassalized… and Kiev wasn’t even among them. It was burned down by Mongols so hard that the center of Kievan Rus was moved to Halych and even the orthodox metropolitan bishop moved from Kiev first to Vladimir and then to Moscow. Then it was conquered by Lithuania and after the Union of Lublin passed down to Poland from which it was partitioned between Austria and Russia.
So if Moscow, which was vassal of Golden Horde for 200 years is a “Mongol Horde” then what is a Ukraine which was part of GH, Lithuania, Poland, Austria, Russia, USSR for over 700 years? Are they “Mongol-Lithuanian-Polish-Austrian-Russian-Soviet Horde” or what?
Nah, they have some bizarre choose your own adventure version of history. Don’t worry about it, it’s really stupid.
The language means "those aligned with the Moscow regime"I think
No, it’s a race thing.
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I think it just means people from Moscow and references Muscovy.
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Outside of the historical context of pre-Russia Grand Duchy of Moscow (and the “Muscovy” itself is a latin exonym), it’s the dogwhistle for the “asiatic hordes” nazi slogan. Think about the contexts when it’s used in current times and it checks out nearly every time.
The Russian Empire started with Muscovy. They have age-old traditions such as forcing people they conquered to conquer more territory for them so, no, generally speaking Russian soldiers are from anywhere but Moscow.
They have age-old traditions
You’re describing every empire that has ever existed. This is not a special thing “they” and they alone do.
Yeah but at least in Europe we generally stopped doing that shit. Serbia had a bit of a go at it but generally it’s been quiet since WWII… with the exception of Muscovy.
Yeah but at least in Europe we generally stopped doing that shit.
You guys didn’t stop in Europe, you were stopped 
nationalism is like leprosy … a state once infected is left with his territories severed from it, its youth withered away into the now foreign grounds and its spirits broken under the Mad screams of the unrelentlessly uneffected …
And they call me propagandized. Of course since you’re Ukrainian you experience this war totally different than I, but nothing on the ground suggests that even a slither of what you’ve just said is true.
because we are not barbarians
Except for Azov, Banderites, and all the other assorted trash you allow to thrive in your shithole
Damn, I thought your rules preclude you from making such a racist remark against a nationality. You can go join Trump with calling places “shitholes”.
I find this weird support for Russia fascinating. They are clearly not free from nationalists and extremists sentiments themselves. Their own state media is calling for pre-emptive nuking of cities, Ireland being an acceptable collateral when nuking the UK, and their own former prime minister Medveded is yelling on twitter about achieving “Greater Russia”. Here’s someone who was awarded “Hero of the Russian Federation” by Putin himself.. It’s almost as if Russia doesn’t actually care, and they are just using it for their propaganda.
Also lol, they’re saying they’re not going to execute them because they aren’t barbarians and giving them time to retreat, and then you take offense to that? That’s such an odd stance. I personally applaud when someone says they want to avoid unnecesairy deaths, but you do you.
“You can’t call our neo-Nazis trash and our state that celebrates Nazi collaborators a shithole! That’s, uh, uh, that’s racist!”
America is a shithole, too, if you were wondering.
America is a shithole, too, if you were wondering.
I agree it has its problems, but I’m not an American so it’s easier to not get deluded by what they call “the American dream”. Helps that even in my English classes growing up we dealt with topics such as the rampant poverty issues Americans face, and how many children live in poverty in the US. Though context matters; America is currently not being invaded. If it was a minor country on the world stage I would also not call it a “shithole”. Same reason I can detect issues in certain African countries without ever calling them by that name, like one of their presidents did.
If you are from America, calling a country that’s been suffering your world hegemony for so long a ‘shithole’, I can only say you are part of the reason that’s the situation, and so you have no rights to call any country a shithole.
“You can’t call our neo-Nazis trash and our state that celebrates Nazi collaborators a shithole! That’s, uh, uh, that’s racist!”
Not every Ukrainian is a Nazi. But sure, let your hate cloud your sense of decency, if that makes you feel better. I’m sure the mothers I’ve spoken to will be happy their children died because they were Nazis, besides I’m sure their elderly people just had it coming… /s
Unlike you I don’t see them as “acceptable collateral”.
Not every Ukrainian is a Nazi.
Neither myself nor the person you were replying to claimed this. They were talking about “Azov, Banderites, and all the other assorted [fascist] trash.”
Unlike you I don’t see them as “acceptable collateral”.
You should tell NATO that. They don’t listen to us but maybe they’ll listen to you and stop the killing.
Fascists aren’t a race.
Please re-read my opening sentence before responding. I’m clearly talking about the ‘your shithole’ part. I don’t care if someone insults fascists. But it’s racist to call a place “shithole”, especially if the poster is from a ‘first world country’.
Ah your mask fell off, nazi.
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Nazi Scum
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Bandera died like a dog ❤️
Putin is worse than Hitler
This might be the funniest thing I have ever read in my life. Stalin didn’t kill enough of you people
Lol, no. Also what the fuck is this “shit people olympics” ranking you got going on?
OUN leaders Andriy Melnyk (code name Consul I) and Bandera (code name Consul II) both served as agents of the Nazi Germany military intelligence Abwehr Second Department. Their goal was to run diversion activities after Germany’s attack on the Soviet Union. This information is part of the testimony that Abwehr Colonel Erwin Stolze gave on 25 December 1945 and submitted to the Nuremberg trials, with a request to be admitted as evidence.
In the spring of 1941, Bandera held meetings with the heads of Germany’s intelligence, regarding the formation of “Nachtigall” and “Roland” Battalions. In the spring of that year, the OUN received 2.5 million marks for subversive activities inside the Soviet Union. Gestapo and Abwehr officials protected Bandera’s followers, as both organizations intended to use them for their own purposes.
On June 23, 1941, one day after the German attack on the Soviet Union, Bandera sent a letter to Hitler arguing the case for an independent Ukraine. On 30 June 1941, with the arrival of Nazi troops in Ukraine, Bandera and the OUN-B unilaterally declared an independent Ukrainian state (“Act of Renewal of Ukrainian Statehood”). The proclamation pledged a cooperation of the new Ukrainian state with Nazi Germany under the leadership of Hitler with a closing note “Glory to the heroic German army and its Führer, Adolf Hitler”. The declaration was accompanied by violent pogroms.
Is this your hero?
He literally said Putin is worse than Hitler in another comment so I’m thinking maybe Bandera is his hero because he was a Nazi
Nailed it. That’s exactly what the Banderites think.
Yeah anyone supporting Banderas really needs to pick up a book that goes through what he did in his life. Whatever good someone might think he did, has been destroyed by his abhorrent actions. I don’t applaud Hitler either for his progressive (at the time) animal rights… He’s a shit person, and deserved worse.
They know what Bandera did. That’s what they like about him. He was cleansing their blessed homeland of whatever the Ukrainian word for sub humans is. They are Nazis. They want to kill everyone who isn’t like them, and once they’re done they’ll start killing each other for being insufficient blond haired and blue eyed.
Get Stashynskyied, Banderite
You’re a child
And you’re delusional. Fitting really, in some comical sense. The child and the idiot.
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Even if screeching about muh whattaboutism wasn’t a thought terminating cliche, an insult is not a whattaboutism.
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One very memorable thing about living in China was dealing with idiots who thought that your copy-pasted gibberish did anything at all to me. It’s like y’all actually think you’re god damn wizards with a magic spell that will get the seeseepee breathing down my neck lmao
Perhaps, and I know I sound like I’m the crazy one here, but just maybe, if you would put on your thinking cap and go out on a limb, you would realize that that’s a string of text that
- I obviously didn’t send
- Isn’t even censored like that, the censorship doesn’t happen on an individual level, it happens on a platform level, generally
- some of that stuff isn’t even censored, y’all just made up a bunch of nonsense and repeated it to each other ad nauseam until all the “freethinkers” believed it lol
Winnie the Pooh? Very popular in China. Not banned. You can literally just go to baidu.com, search for Winnie the Pooh, and find that it’s everywhere lol This is the caliber of the lies about China that y’all are on
Do y’all just never notice how this never works?
The greatest hits
The fallacy is ad hominem. Dumbass.
And only presents a problem because the 2 countries cannot reliably use air power to overcome 1st WW trench warfare
The US has just approved the transfer of F-16s to Ukraine. So that might change soon. IIRC, Ukraine has had a shortage of airplanes to use. Russia has been very reluctant to use the airplanes that they have because they keep getting shot down, and they simply can’t replace them at the speed necessary (especially since their economy has crashed, and China is the only country that can supply them with the circuitry that they need).
A bigger problem is that Russia has air defenses and air bases inside Russia. NATO in general has been very reluctant to transfer offensive weapons to Ukraine that would make it possible to strike those–entirely legitimate–targets inside of Russia, because that would be an escalation. But to have air superiority, you need to ensure that those SAM batteries, RADAR installations, and forward air bases are not in the picture. So to break the stalemate, Ukraine has to be able to make strikes against Russia, in Russian territory. That’s potentially very dangerous.
If it’s allowed to grind on, Russia wins eventually, because they have a population many times the size of Ukraine, and can keep throwing bodies at them. So Ukraine needs to win air superiority, which means striking targets inside of Russia.
The US has just approved the transfer of F-16s to Ukraine. So that might change soon.
I am so hyped to see how long an F-16 lasts against the S-500 network. Whether or not NATO SEAD systems can counter the S-500 system is going to be one of the deciding factors in the course of the 21st century. It’ll also be neat to see if NATO actually commits real weaponry or holds back the good stuff for fear of it failing and revealing that the Emperor has no clothes.
I don’t think there is even need to deploy the S-500 which are pretty rare still since it entered service not long ago. Especially when older systems are enough for outdated planes like F-16, especially ones piloted by raw pilots from regularily trashed infrastructure.
Regarding the F16, Ukrainian pilots are going to start testing the Gripen as well, although that path is obviously far behind the F16s given the glacial pace of such developments…
“The ghost of Kiev is changing the game!” " HIMARS is going to be a game changer!" “Storm shadow is going to be a game changer!” “Leopards are going to be a game changer!” “Challengers are going to be a game changer!” “F-16s are going to be a game changer!”
How many Ukrainians need to be sent into minefields for you libs to fuckin learn.
Well, personally I’d support NATO troops directly opposing Russian aggression. If I had any skills worth a damn, I’d volunteer myself. Unfortunately, I’m nearly 50, and would be a greater liability to Ukrainian defenders than an asset.
And make no mistake, this is Russian aggression. Russia is to blame for NATO’s existence, and for it’s expansion. Sweden and Finland were both quite opposed to NATO membership prior to Russia’s unwarranted invasion.
You’d support World War 3?
Yes.
Just as I would have supported the second world war, had I been alive.
It is our moral duty to oppose evil, and what Putin is doing is unambiguously evil.
If I had any skills worth a damn, I’d volunteer myself. Unfortunately, I’m nearly 50, and would be a greater liability to Ukrainian defenders than an asset.
This is what you had to say about why you’re not in a trench shitting your pants right now yourself, even though the war in Ukraine is such a crime that you’re willing to start world War 3 over it. Of course you want war. You’re bloodthirsty when it comes to the people the state has designated as the ‘bad country’. You know who’d die in that war of yours? At first, it’d be the millions of people I teach now. Young people. They don’t want to die over your ideals for which you’re not even willing to lift a fucking finger but bitch and moan about it on the internet. When the working class recruits of that generation are coming home in coffins or disfigured and traumatized, it’s my generations turn. And so on, so forth. In a war between two corrupt states where once again dumb fucks like you have managed to convince themselves AGAIN That THIS TIME, the state isn’t lying about a war! They did it with Vietnam, they did it with Iraq twice, they did it with Afghanistan, with Yemen, with lybia and Syria, BUT THIS TIME what you’re being fed is the unqmbiguous truth! THIS TIME you must be wanting the right things! Like a third world War!
And all that would be a best case scenario, because in that case both NATO and Russia have managed to not destroy the entire world in some nuclear armageddon. You’re willing to sacrifice millions, if not billions, of people, for some fucking vague ideals you’re not willing to do anything for yourself, over a country that’s been embroiled in civil war for the past 8 years and you didn’t give a fuck about until someone else told you to.
I tried to join the military when I was 22, and was turned down. I was, and am, willing to fight and die when it’s necessary to stop evil.
As I said, and you clearly ignored, I would be a liability to Ukraine where I am right now. I am old and slow, and that would put younger, fitter people at greater risk of being killed than if I wasn’t there. What I can do is vote for politicians that will fund their military, donate money to specific units for things like buying drones or Hilux trucks to move fighters, and so on.
I’m aware that Ukraine has a corruption problem. That’s not actually material to Russia invading and killing civilians. Louisiana has a corruption problem; that doesn’t mean that Mexico should invade and bomb New Orleans’ French Quarter.
We’re not talking about Vietnam, Yemen, Afghanistan, Iraq, or even Korea. I opposed our invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, because I predicted–and quite rightly–that our invasion would cost tens of thousands of civilian lives. In Syria, we should have followed through with our commitment to the rebels when Assad used chemical weapons, and we didn’t; the result has been that Assad has been free to wage war against his own people, and hundreds of thousands of Syrians have died or been displaced. But none of those are Ukraine. In Ukraine, Russia is the one killing civilians, and attacking civilians targets; Russia is the one that invaded, without provocation. There was no military attack against Russia or the people of Russia by Ukraine; Russia had stolen Ukrainian territory in 2014, but that does not make the Crimean region Russian.
The F-16s will need parts, logistics, and weapons, the pilots and ground crews will need extensive training… those jets will do nothing this year. Perhaps next year though. I agree that Ukraine is fighting with one arm tied due to NATO fears of nuclear retaliation. Is that a reasonable fear? I think so. Putin is not a sane or reasonable person. And Ukraine has shown the capability to hit Russian targets within Russian territory. If the Ukrainians were allowed to hit harder, deeper, more sensitive targets in Russia, the war would escalate – Russia would not want to be seen as beaten by its little neighbor. A shame, agree or disagree, but right now, those are the rules of war that Ukraine must abide by for continued support from NATO.
Russia has been beaten by most of the smaller countries that it’s gone toe-to-toe against. The only particularly big win that Russia (or the USSR) has had in the past century was WWII, and that was because the USSR was getting an enormous amount of material assistance from… The US. source Russia’s aggressive actions against the Baltic countries are precisely why Estonia, Latvia, etc. joined NATO. And countries have to ask to join NATO. Without Russian aggression, there is no NATO.
Ukraine will run out of material before they reach the Azov sea. You can calculate this yourself based on the verified losses and land gained. In addition manpower isn’t infinite for Ukraine.
Everyone who supports Russia is a fascist.
You are suffering from brain worms. In your world anything that isn’t Slava Ukraina = Russian Support = fascism.
Where did she state she was supporting Russia
You are mentioning 2 different resources: 1. Materiel, 2. Manpower. After an initial bumpy start where Ukraine did indeed lose a few valuable pieces of equipment, you cannot point to any significant loses in the last month – except on the Russian side. And Russia does not have extensive resources thanks to the international sanctions. Russia is now moving troops from one point of attack to another, meaning they no longer have reserves to apply. They have already gone through the prison population, and the lasty conscription drive caused many people to move abroad. They are now conscripting people who have the least motivation to fight and giving them little training. These are death sentences. Meanehile, Ukraine continues to be supported by Western financials and technology. You are perhaps expecting a “blowout” scenario like in Kherkov last year. But placing a greater value on life, Ukraine has been going slow and carefully to minimize losses on thier side. The exact thing you see as a weakness is actually resource protection.
Check it out: https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-ukrainian.html?m=1.
Ukraine doesn’t have enough Bradleys and Leapords to reach the sea using current tactics.
I’m pretty sure once Ukraine has thrown away enough lives trying to get to the first line of defense, Russia is going to use their mobilized army to roll up the coast line all the way up to Transnistria.
I absolutely love the incomprehension on the part of liberals of why Russia didn’t just throw freshly mobilized troops into a meat grinder the way Ukraine is doing. Instead, they sensibly spent the time building multi-layer defences, and training the troops knowing that the west would push Ukraine into the offensive in order to justify all the spending.
It is kind of unbelievable that they don’t understand a smaller country can’t just send able bodied young men in to a defensive line to get slaughtered indefinitely. Vibes based world view. You’d think there are enough gamers in the world that the average commentator would understand how “camping” works as a strategy.
There was an actual article in WaPo that flat out said that the west knew that Ukraine didn’t have enough equipment to do the offensive, but pushed them into it anyways because they thought their motivation and gumption would make up for it. You just can’t make this shit up:
How does that saying go?
Old age and treachery will always beat youth and exuberance.
I keep telling everyone to read Sun Tzu because he’s very specific, numerous times, about not doing this specific thing. : p
The fact that they thought this could work shows that western sponsors of the proxy war are completely detached from reality. If they made an obvious blunder like this, one has to wonder what other terrible blunders have they been making over the past two years. It’s clearly that they’re completely out of their depth here. Yet, people still think they’re going to win because they project this level of stupidity on the Russians.
And this is based on the overwhelming success of the current Russian attempts?
Yes
By this time next year Ukraine will not have any coastline under their control.
They probably won’t have an 18-35 year old men under their control, either. I’m kind of surprised they can still find people willing to die for this bullshit.
There’s a reason why they’re kidnapping men off the streets and press-ganging them to fight for the Kiev regime. The slava ukraini epic marvel stuff is not making enough people volunteer to go die in a minefield.
I’m willing to take that bet. Just like Russia will take Kiev in 3 days. Just like Ukraine would be under Russian control in a matter of months. Just like many other Russian PR predictions, worthless.
…Those predictions were Western ones, not Russian ones.
Oh damn I didn’t realize Belarus was Russia, this changes everything
I would bet you £10 (or dollar equivalent) that this will not happen, to be donated to a charity of the other’s choice, honestly. Absolutely no chance Russia takes Odessa and reaches the Romanian border.
What is it with liberals and making bets they absolutely will not honor? Two redditors already owe me donations because they predicted Russia would be pushed back over the Russian border within six months, back in mid-2022. You should donate to any charity you like instead of whatever weird shit this is.
I don’t have £10 spare right now I’m really struggling sorry, but I plan on having it in a year God Willing. I would’ve done it but the point is I am certain of it not coming to pass.
PS I am not a liberal, how dare you >:(
“let’s bet money on a conflict with bodies piling up” is not a sentiment I would expect from a leftist
I’ll put it on the giant pile of overconfident predictions about Russian military prowess that we already have. Kiev in 3 days, amirite?
Westerners predicted Kiev in three days.
lmao, calm down liberal
also your link is bad
Maybe this is just happening on our instance, but your image was removed. Maybe a direct link?
they where in kiew the first day ? And it was hugly successfull because of the Kiew Raid they Closed the landbridge in 3 days ! the biggest ojective by far ,its securs crimea… they literally Seized a Territory the size of Belgium and Netherlands including the Black Soil and Europes Greats NPP , trapped elite units of ukraine in mariupol and blockaded the Main water atery of Ukraine (dnepr ) and Strategiclly also odessa …
In my book Russia was hugly succesfull , if russia would not have secured the Landbridge …
Yes, the conditions of an offensive at the very beginning of the war are still extremely relevant now.
“thrown away”
A few weeks of NATO training and then sending them into minefields without sufficient artillery support or any air support at all is absolutely, 100%, throwing away lives. Particularly since anybody not huffing their own farts has known from day one that Russia would be able to keep any land they really want, there is no path to victory for Ukraine and there never has been without direct NATO intervention.
And this is precisely how NATO likes it, as long as Ukraine isn’t part of NATO then there is no obligation for NATO to get involved directly. They can just keep the proxy war going as long as they see it beneficial, and then cut and run when it burns itself out.
I mean marching a bunch of barely-trained 50 year old conscripts into known killzones or over minefields is absolutely throwing those lives away.
“Special de-mining operation”
Go step on a mine like your ukkkrainian heros
Lol
Russia has defenses, but no ability to move forward.
You don’t play RTS games, do you? The fun thing about a strong defensive line is that you can kill a whole lot of their guys for every one of your guys that they kill, and if you have enough guys they’re going to run out long before you do.
What happens to those insecure areas?
The Nazis probably genocide the Russian speaking Ukrainians that live there, either by driving them out using terror, or just killing them all. Probably a combination of both.
It seems you do not play RTS games – ignoring the fact that those are exactly like modern warfare /s – you would know that certain systems are incredibly effective against certain other systems. Like StA missiles against Russian fighter jets and helicopters which is why you do not see them in the air much at all, and certainly not to a militarily significant degree. Perhaps you are suggesting that the Russian defenses are so powerful that Ukraine will die trying to take those hills? For every weapon, there’s a counter. The Russians have mined huge areas of the occupied lands and it is indeed slow going. Slow, but continuous for the Ukrainians. It’s sad that you see this war with real tragedy and absolute senselessness as a game.
That’s nice.
Lol I read the whole thread. Yeah somebody is definitely winning this mess shall we interview the pile of bodies on the east side or the west side hmm I don’t know
Russia allready lost. They just keep ignoring it
RT was banned first day of the war due to links to the kremlin and propaganda. Wouldn’t want people influenced by propaganda, of course! This is the west! We’re free thinkers! Now let me see how the war is going in the non-biased Kyiv Post.
Why do posters from Hexbear defend Russia so much? They’re not communist. If anything, they’re right wing.
Putin has a government allied with Russian business oligarchs and the support of the Russian Orthodox Church. He promotes the military as heroes. He cultivates a cult of personality. He personally controls billions of dollars. That’s textbook Fascism.
Criticizing this article isn’t the same as supporting Russia lol.
I swear someone could claim like “Russia is controlled by an army of demons” and if someone from Hexbear was like “actually that is not true you should stick to the realm of fact in your criticisms of Russia” posters you’d still get like “WHY ARE YOU DEFENDING RUSSIA? DONT YOU KNOW RUSSIA ISNT COMMUNIST”.
If it was only that it wouldn’t be an issue, but many comments here are pushing Putin’s propaganda by trying to legitimate manipulated referendums and cherry-picking colateral damages of Ukrainian self-defense or Ukrainian extremists to try to inverse the burden of guilt. I don’t know if they actually support Putin or if they are just blinded by their hate of the West, but the end result is that they do help carry Putin’s propaganda and its fascist oligarc dictatorship.
They’re not communist
Wait, I’m ootl what happened?
Pizza Hut won the cold war.
really? this is how I find out???
You will forget again by tomorrow. It’s a very human coping mechanism. Then some meany will remind us again. The only reason I’m not so surprised is because I wake up every day with a riddle of tattoos covering my body.
Because I truly believe that war is horrible the hundreds of thousands of lives lost in this war is a human tragedy, working people all over the world have to deal with the fallout of this war with rising energy costs and higher foodprices which certainly also caused the deaths of people, meanwhile this war is used in many western countries to push extreme austerity which will lessen the quality of life at best.
This war and all wars are a human tragedy, and at the start of it I certainly wasn’t in Russias corner and I’m still not but I have lost all sympathy for Ukraine and the West because not only have there been many off ramps for Ukraine to end this conflict but western politicians have contributed to this misery. They’ve contributed to the deaths of so many lives. People like Boris Johnson that sabotaged the peace talks, Biden that keeps on sending more and more weapon over there so more and more people can die. I’ve since stopped looking at how much money they’ve given but around spring it was 100bn USD which would’ve been enough to combat world hunger for 3 years. Ukranian officials like yes Zelensky who is a clown that personally doesn’t suffer from this and uses it to push his own persona and does a cool photoshoot in his sick operator outfit.
Ukraine has not approached the negotiating table in any serious manner because they insist on demanding everything back including Crimea, which just won’t happen especially not in this position, so the ukranian leadership is happy to get some money from the west so they order people like you and me to walk into artillery fire or into landmines not for any reason because there haven’t been any real gains but just because that’s how the money is flowing in.
Ukraine totally could negotiate a peace it would be incredibly easy because Putin seems eager to want to negotiate but what Ukraine wants isn’t a restoration of the border situation before the war they want Crimea as well, they are not serious about peace and everyone knows it, Ukraine will never surrender and so the only thing that can stop this senseless war is when the endless amount of money flowing into Ukraine stops or when the people of Ukraine have had enough of their bloodthirsty corrupt leadership and overthrow them.
Edit: Also sorry but quite a few people from other instances literally say fascist shit that reminds me of rhetoric that was used during the conflicts in Yugoslavia and we all know how that turned out, calling russian ethnicities in Ukraine ‘occupiers’ is surely not going to lead to violence towards that group.
because not only have there been many off ramps for Ukraine to end this conflict
How many of those involve not giving in to the aggressor?
Is this one of these “pacifism is when I kick you and you don’t defend yourself” bits?
the moral purity of ''not giving in to the aggressor" doesn’t make anybody less dead.
It does: It dissuades the aggressor.
Germanic tribes, and this continues over to Ukraine culturally (because Rus), had the battle cry “better dead than slave”. A village would fight down to the last woman, elderly, and child. Because even if the aggressor overcame them they’d be left with nothing but their own losses. Thus, they wouldn’t even try.
If Russia is allowed to get away with this, Taiwan will be next. A gazillion of small-scale empires in unstable regions all around the world will say “well, seeing that noone cares our time to get away with it”.
Millions if not billions of people more will be dead.
I’m sorry but this is definitely shit you only say when you’re very far from the action. Would you want your grandpa drafted and sent into a minefield to “dissuade the aggressor”? Grandma and the children too apparently, better dead than governed by another neighboring authoritarian shithole?
I think I’d rather just flee with my family to a country right next door that has a nuclear deterrent and NATO membership. Literally why would “they need to all fight to the death instead” be your first thought? I can’t imagine it coming from a position where you think Ukrainians are as human as you are.
People back then couldn’t flee like that. You’re taking it all well too literally.
And yes I have Ukrainian refugee neighbours. Soldiers knowing their families are safe with friends isn’t exactly bad for morale, either.
If Russia is allowed to get away with this, Taiwan will be next. A gazillion of small-scale empires in unstable regions all around the world will say “well, seeing that noone cares our time to get away with it”. Millions if not billions of people more will be dead.
Holy shit mate, stop watching Marvel movies and get some perspective; this isn’t the first time one nation has invaded another. The world didn’t end when America invaded Iraq.
The Iraq war was wrong for a multitude of reasons, and many countries (including mine) wanted to do nothing to do with it, but one thing sets it apart very clearly from the current situation:
Iraq wasn’t a war of conquest. Russia’s war against Ukraine is. The US hasn’t waged a war of conquest IIRC since Hawaii, it’s always been foreign meddling instead but never out-right imposition of rule and they’ve gotten less and less bad at how they’re doing it over time. I mean compare the Iraqi or Afghani government during occupation with the likes of Batista.
Then, and this (as well as that Marvel reference I couldn’t give less of a fuck) makes me think you’re American: It’s the first war by a major power in Europe since WWII. We thought we had that shit behind us, that Yugoslavia was a regrettable exceptions caused by small-minded autocrats exploiting ethnic tensions for their own benefit. But, nope, actual full-scale war has come back to Europe because unlike the rest of Europe Russia hasn’t gotten the memo that imperialism is soooo 18hundreds. As a yank you wouldn’t understand.
Germanic tribes, and this continues over to Ukraine culturally (because Rus), had the battle cry “better dead than slave”. A village would fight down to the last woman, elderly, and child.
So when are you going to Ukraine to sign up for the frontline?
You’re definitely gonna do that right?
I’ll have to inform you that I’m a conscious objector (spent my time in catastrophe relief) and by now too old.
But yes there’s plenty of German reservists in Ukraine. Also what does that have to do with anything I said, I was glossing Ukrainian sentiment. Did you merely wanted to be right on the internet (in your own mind).
Ukraine has lost. They are not getting their separatist regions back.
Their choices are to keep fighting, which will not change this outcome, or negotiate an end to the war so they can stop dying and start rebuilding. Their negotiating position will only weaken as the war continues absent some one-in-a-million stroke of luck.
This isn’t “I kick you and you don’t defend yourself.” It’s “I kick you, you defend yourself, lose, and choose to either walk away or keep getting beaten up.” And that’s not even digging into the actual causes of the war, which are nowhere near as clear cut as Russia one day waking up and deciding to attack out of the blue.
Oh you are disgusting
Disgusting is cheerleading who knows how many more deaths that if anything will only weaken Ukraine’s bargaining position.
Please just drown in your own vomit.
Ukraine has lost. They are not getting their separatist regions back.
[citation needed].
In any case Ukrainians disagree with you and keep on fighting. Heck even if Russia occupied all of Ukraine they’d keep on fighting. It’s not in your hands whether they fight or not, and their motive is just, so why not help them? Because you’re a defeatist? Come on.
“They want to keep doing something you think is futile and causing senseless deaths, so why not help them?”
You know what would be even more senseless than dying in a trench? Dying in an FSB torture cellar while your family gets raped.
In any case Ukrainians disagree with you and keep on fighting
Yeah, that’s why they’ve been kidnapping people to the front lines, because the Ukranian people want to fight so much. That’s why they conscripted prison inmates and forbid any man undder 60 from leaving when the war broke out, right. Because of all that popular will to fight.
There’s been plenty of court cases and firings over improperly handled conscriptions. Prison inmates IIRC weren’t conscripted but given a choice. Plenty of Ukrainians – also men – returned from other European countries to fight, left countries where they had a free welfare ride and working permits. Plenty of women fight in the army. It surely must be terrible over there /s.
Meanwhile Russia is force-conscripting pretty much any man they can get their hands on and sending them, without equipment, into meat grinders. Have a look at Storm Z units.
Ukraine has lost. They are not getting their separatist regions back.
[citation needed].
Points at the utter failure of the joke of a counteroffensive to even breach Russia’s first line of defense after months of hype about retaking Crimea
In any case Ukrainians disagree with you and keep on fighting.
You mean the ones forced to fight because they were kidnapped off the street and will be shot if they try to leave? Or the fascists that are in charge?
Heck even if Russia occupied all of Ukraine they’d keep on fighting.
Part of the reason why Russia does not want to occupy all of Ukraine.
It’s not in your hands whether they fight or not,
Nor yours, but it is in the hands of NATO leadership who have stymied peace negotiations at every opportunity.
and their motive is just
[citation needed]
so why not help them?
Why would we want to help people get forced into a meat grinder?
Minsk I a treaty they’ve signed that was about greater autonomy for the Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts like them being allowed to speak russian a treaty that was very quickly broken.
Minsk II a treaty that did the same thing which again was broken.
and these are the off ramps before the war during the war you had the peace talks when the russian army was outside of Kiev whose content is dubious because so far only the russians said what it was about
and more importantly every peace talk after that Ukraines position was a restoration of the 2014 borders aka they want Crimea back which sorry is just not reasonable, hell for a lot of those peace talks russia wasn’t even invited it was a bunch of countries like Germany, UK and Ukraine but not you know the country currently participating in this war.
This is one of those bits where I say that a country isn’t about some piece of land but the people in it which guess what the ukrainian government is feeding into gigantic blender.
I DON’T CARE ABOUT SOME IMAGINARY LINES.
If Cuba decided to ‘restore its borders’ aka if it attacked the US base on Guantanamo Bay and sacrificed hundreds of thousands of Cubans throwing them against the US army blender I would call for the Cuban people to rise up against its government because it doesn’t care about its people and I hope you would too, if Mexico decided to take back California I’d have that same stance. It’s called being anti-war, something I’m sure you’ll now quote how “actually your stance isn’t anti-war my which calls for sending billions of military equipment is actually anti-war”
My guess is that you don’t know what war is like or have never interacted with anyone that had to flee a war, you really have two options here you can go outside and talk to any ukrainian woman that fled because of the war, tell them to their face that they are giving in to the aggressor when they say how angry they are at the ukrainian government because they don’t know where their husband or their two brothers are. You know what I’ll make it easier for you find any person in real life that has had to flee a conflict and how they feel about ‘giving in to the aggressor’. Or if you feel you don’t need to do that go join up the ukranian army do your part to fight the aggressor I mean it’s only war right, you’ve seen some TikToks with war footage and some phonk music accompaning it, war is absolutely poggers I’m sure you’d have a blast fighting some russian orks.
Minsk I a treaty they’ve signed that was about greater autonomy for the Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts like them being allowed to speak russian a treaty that was very quickly broken.
Minsk II a treaty that did the same thing which again was broken.
…broken by the separatists. Also Russian was never outlawed.
Ukraines position was a restoration of the 2014 borders aka they want Crimea back which sorry is just not reasonable,
It’s unreasonable to not give in to a conqueror? It’s that “Pacifism is when I kick you and you don’t defend yourself” thing, again.
I DON’T CARE ABOUT SOME IMAGINARY LINES.
You may not. The people living in those areas (fled or not) do, though. They do care whether there’s rule of law, whether they have a say in how things are run, whether there’s a criminal installed at the top of things by the occupying force. After Ukraine got its independence many Tatars returned to Crimea that should tell you something.
Ukrainians, no matter the ethnicity, don’t want to be ruled by Moscow. It’s as simple as that. Before the war, some still had hopes that good relations with Moscow are possible, but not any more. Do you want to be ruled by Moscow? See neighbours disappear in torture cellars?
damn I was so sure this ukrainian woman I was talking to really wanted the war to end but she must not be a true blooded ukrainian women amiright? Again you are just some edgy person that doesn’t get out enough and you channel that into playing up how much of a big powerful person you are by yelling “WAR WAR WAR NO ME WANT BLOOD WAR NOW BOMBS MINES BLOOD SKULLS WAR” it is good to see though that you will not go outside so there’s that you don’t seem like a pleasant person to be around.
Also this isn’t a creative exercise you aren’t supposed to just make up lies lol
Everyone wants the war to end. By the way of Russia losing it because Russia being allowed to win means even more war in the future: Peace on the agressor’s terms is not peace, and thus cannot be the goal of any pacifist.
If the Kiev coup regime was concerned about aggression, they could have simply not done eight years of ethnic cleansing in the Donbas and ignored a ceasefire🤷♂️
Are there any OSCE election monitor results you want to back up your “coup regieme” claim?
Also, the breakaway Russian puppet states were the ones to break the ceasefires.
Google Operation Aerodynamic, i’m not gonna spoonfeed you information you’ll just petulantly spit out to preserve your protofascist worldview.
Must’ve been a colossal failure, what with Svoboda having exactly one seat in the Rada.
How many of those involve not giving in to the aggressor?
How can it be hammered in to your skull that this is not a story book where good guys win by virtue of their righteousness?
This is geopolitics. An empire wants to conquer an outlying resource rich region it has not been able to bring under it’s control. It has provoked a small outlying nation to act as a proxy to weaken it’s enemy. Ukraine isn’t making decisions. They’re just ammunition in someone else’s war and the best thing for them would be to mutiny against Kiev and end the slaughter. Status quo antebellum is not on the menu.
the first 2 , they just involved West Ukraine giving in towards accepting 30 % of your citizens to have Human and Democratic rights as well … (please read up on Minsk 1 & 2 )
Ah, the old myth about the poor disenfranchised Russian minority. Who, pray tell, might have an interest in propagating such narratives? A neighbouring belligerent empire, perhaps?
Ah, the old myth about the perfidious, untrustworthy minority with dual loyalties who are surely plotting with The Enemy. Who, pray tell, might have an interest in propagating such narratives?
Certainly not the vast, vast, majority of Ukrainians. Even among the Ukrainian far-right that’s a tiny minority.
Pointing out blatant untruths, being anti-war and wanting accurate reporting rather that copium meant to inspire more people to thrown themselves to a pointless death is checks notes russian propaganda?
You would’ve supported the invasion of IraqSo if you’re anti-war, why do you support Russia who started the war and has shown they are adamantly pro-war?
We believe the war was started by a quagmire of situations going back as far as 1991, including things like the 2014 NATO-backed coup of Ukraine and the 1999 bombing of Yugoslavia. This war wasn’t some random unprovoked territory grab dictated by Putin, it’s the resolution of western interference in the region for decades. Ukraine had been shelling Donbas and Luhansk for years. NATO brought this war upon themselves, basically. Instigating and prodding at the situation for years.
Also, Russia and Ukraine, near the start of the war, floated the possibility of a ceasefire and NATO pressured them out of it. The USA saw the possibility of a proxy war and started drooling.
We don’t support Russia so much as we see them as one unfortunate reality fighting another unfortunate reality. The war’s true culprit is capitalism, and as a leftist the only conclusion you should reach is wars like this are senseless and they should immediately stop. And the only way I see this war to stop is if Ukraine immediately surrenders and loses territory, otherwise we’d just be back in 2014 all over again and the situation would repeat. I can vaguely see how that could be construed as pro-Russia, but it’s more that I believe diplomacy with Russia is strained, Russia is volatile, and nothing is gained from open warfare with them. Everyone needs to stop fighting, whatever that takes, because the only winners in wars like this are wealthy capitalists, the rest of us lose.
You say “NATO brought this on themselves” like they weren’t joyous at the prospect of a Russian invasion of Ukraine but I think this isn’t true. The west has worked closely to recreate the Ukrainian Army from the ground up since 2014 (when it was useless) because they knew this was a possibility. This war-launched idiotically by Putin-has benefitted the west alone. Not Russia, and obviously not Ukraine.
-Ukraine is now irrevocably tied to the west and will be for the foreseeable future. Before this, western intelligence agencies were worried Zelensky was too pro-Russian. Not anymore.
-Eastern Ukrainians who speak Russian in their mother tongue are now anti-Russian for the most part.
-Lots of juicy money for western MICs.
-The bulk of the Russian Army is tied down in Ukraine and so cannot be used elsewhere-massive limiting of Russia’s strategic manoeuvrability.
-Russian economy damaged (not as much as they thought it would, but it’s still damaged) and large-scale brain drain of well-educated Russians who oppose the war who have now fled to Georgia and will seek to move to the west most likely. Also Russians living in the west who are more likely to be liberal will be much less likely to come home.
-Strong consolidation and reification of Ukrainian national identity, meaning far less likely for Ukraine to see Russia as a ‘kin state/brotherly nation’ akin to Azerbaijan/Turkey.
-Exposes and emphasises the fragmentation and factionalism within the Russian state and security apparatus, (see: Wagner).
-Kills lots of Russians whose families may eventually turn against the state once this war drags on and nothing good comes from it.
What I mean to say is that NATO isn’t suffering at all-at least, the Americans and Brits aren’t. They’re overjoyed! You can’t “bring something on yourself” forlornly if you’re openly working for it, then it’s just a success! I mean I don’t think they necessarily worked only for the invasion but basically just various means to bring Ukraine into the western fold, of which this was just one (probably not the ideal) option of many.
It was not a ‘rational’ or sensible reaction to NATO encroachment. I mean realistically with nuclear weapons the idea that a land invasion of Russia could happen is ludicrous, but even removing that factor there were countless other mechanisms at Putin’s disposal to achieve his strategic aims. This invasion was a terrible choice and it only happened because (A) the Russian leadership is full of yes-men who are unable to criticise Putin, (B) because the Russian leadership has become increasingly isolated from the realities on the ground in the last few years and so VASTLY misunderstood how the war would go. They thought it would be like Georgia (though the Georgia War was a mess from a Russian perspective they won anyway because of the vastly unbalanced correlation of forces).
Yes, this is a sensible and thoughtless war, but I think expecting Ukrainians to just give up against an aggressor is fruitless. They will not do it as long as they believe they can win (see Zartman’s concept of a mutually hurting stalemate), which both sides currently believe they can. Plus if it’s a frozen conflict and more or less even, why would Ukraine ‘surrender’? Yes, I think the eventual only possible end to this war will be a surrender of some territory (more likely is simply a frozen conflict), but I don’t believe it is politically viable atm and so it is pointless to support it. If Zelensky agreed to surrender territory he’d risk being overthrown and probably killed by the far-right and ultra-nationalist sections of the army/state. The morally best situation would be a return to the status quo ante bellum and a referendum in the east and in Crimea monitored by international IGO/NGO bodies not tied to any particular state, but that wont happen.
The balance of forces is even enough that one side admitting defeat is implausible until the mutual damage from the war is much higher and both sides come to realise it is unwinnable (this is a subjective understanding even if there are objective measures of ‘mutually hurting stalemate’.
edit: formatting
good post
I’m sorry no. Every time someone tries to say “oh well Russia was just pressured by NATO” that’s all they leave it at.
How?
No really, explain. Explain how the only option for Russia was to invade their neighboring country and steal land. What negative effects would Russia be feeling right now if they hadn’t invaded Ukraine?
“Well NATO was pushing up against their borders”
So fucking what?! Just because your country is so shitty that your neighbors choose to ally with someone else is not an excuse to invade them!
Have you ever heard of the Cuban Missile Crisis? Why did America freak out that Cuba was going to get missiles from the Soviet Union? What did the Soviet Union choose to do to stop the crisis? Could it be that it is entirely normal for a nation to not want an adversary’s missiles on their border? Has there been multiple examples of conflicts stemming from this issue all over the globe? Have you ever asked yourself a question about how conflicts start, and if other nations have ever behaved similarly?
Russia has no excuse and neither does NATO. The best case scenario is both countries lay down their arms and have socialists take power. Unfortunately we don’t live in that kind of situation, so the only thing I can advocate is both NATO and Russia cease fighting. Ukraine shouldn’t ally with NATO because NATO shouldn’t exist.
What negative effects would Russia be feeling? I don’t know, personally I thought Russia entering the war was a bad call and a strategic mistake. I can see the reason why it happened while still saying it’s an open act of aggression. Russia probably could have negotiated with Ukraine about Donbas/Luhansk through better oil deals or something, no idea. Possibly could have tried straight up purchasing the land that Russian separatists occupied?
But Russia probably had reason to distrust diplomacy with Ukraine ever since 2014. For context, I believe that 2014 happened specifically because Ukraine’s previous government was becoming too close to Russia and it made NATO nervous. I could easily ask, what negative effects would Ukraine be feeling if they hadn’t had a western backed coup? Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych floated membership in the Eurasian Economic Union, which set off protests that were capitalized upon by western nations. Would it had been so negative had Ukraine entered a formal economic alliance with some former Soviet states? Who knows now.
The new president, Porochenko, was much harsher on Russian separatists in the east than his predecessors, which started the Donbas war in earnest. That’s the moment above any I can point to that started all of this. Maybe if Yanumovych had remained president there could have been a more peaceful solution to Donbas. Who knows now
Yeah but this is all speculation and we live in reality. The reality is the war should cease immediately, for the benefit of people in Ukraine, Russia, and all refugees from the region. Only way I see that realistically happening is if NATO disengages and Ukraine loses territory.
Maybe once fighting finishes something new and better can get negotiated, but I’m not holding my breath that neoliberal countries like this know how to resolve long standing conflicts.
Ukraine shouldn’t ally with NATO because NATO shouldn’t exist.
Maidan wasn’t about NATO. Support for NATO membership of Ukraine only sky-rocketed once Russia invaded (after 2014, that is), and by now is overwhelming.
Maidan was about EU membership. Should the EU also not exist in your mind? And yes btw the EU is also a defensive alliance (it’s a gazillion of things). Russia’s invasion wouldn’t have happened had Ukraine been a member. Hence why Russia’s stooge Yanukovich was ordered to stop EU accession: Because then Russia wouldn’t be able to invade, any more. Ukraine would be as safe as the Baltics and Finland have been all this time.
Oh and btw after the 2004 NATO enlargement (including the Baltics) Putin said that he saw no threat to Russia from that, and also that every country was free to choose their alliance.
including things like the 2014 NATO-backed coup of Ukraine
AAAAaaaa
What you just said should be a bannable offence. President reneged on his election promises, people demonstrated, president sent out goons (both criminal and police) to deal with them, more people demonstrated, president passed laws (without having the votes) to make the country authoritarians, more people demonstrated even more, NATO countries “backed” protestors by sending… politicians. Who talked and negotiated, recommending compromises, the protesters were having none of that. After a while Yanukovich fled to his masters in Russia and, being AWOL, got removed from office.
None of that was a coup, which involves toppling of the government by government insiders. It wasn’t really a revolution either because nothing fundamental about the state changed, though yes Berkut got dismantled over the egregious police violence they committed, but that’s reform, not revolution.
Then, there have been multiple completely democratic elections since then. So all in all, big picture glossing over details: President didn’t want to keep his election promises, people were opposed and wanted a different president, then they had themselves exactly those elections. Call it a special electoral operation I’m not even using that term tongue in cheek. In more mature democracies where presidents don’t take orders from foreign governments it would’ve taken the form of “presidents wants something, people are vehemently opposed, president resigns, new elections”.
I wonder how American would act if Chinese leaders showed up at protests for Black Lives Matters protests, or Russian leaders showed up for Jan 6th protests?
Victoria Nuland showed up to the protests, and she has multiple emails that basically call it a coup.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957.amp
Also 2 weeks later was the Maidan Sniper incident that has overwhelmingly evidence of a false flag operated by the Ukrainian far right.
I know it’s hard to see that the world isnt Disney level “good vs evil”. It’s actually a little more complicated
I wonder how American would act if Chinese leaders showed up at protests for Black Lives Matters protests, or Russian leaders showed up for Jan 6th protests?
Well Russia did stoke a ton of that culture war bullshit in the US. On both and all sides, of course, they don’t care who comes out on top all they want is the US being dysfunctional (well, more dysfunctional than usual). The more controversy the better.
What makes you think they didn’t do the same in Ukraine? Just that unlike Yanks, Ukrainians actually understand how Russians operate.
Victoria Nuland showed up to the protests, and she has multiple emails that basically call it a coup.
Foreign diplomat is abroad doing diplomacy. Curious. Coincidence? I think not.
Coup? Where? All I see is American arrogance. Americans also still believe that they started Libya and that it had something to do with Hillary.
Also 2 weeks later was the Maidan Sniper incident that has overwhelmingly evidence of a false flag operated by the Ukrainian far right.
You mean Berkut gave Right Sector rifles, then Right Sector shot protestors (including their own people), then Right Sector gave those rifles back to Berkut so the bullets in demonstrators could be matched to Berkut rifles? Overwhelming evidence like that?
Hey but at least you didn’t claim Azov was involved who didn’t even exist yet.
I know it’s hard to see that the world isnt Disney level “good vs evil”. It’s actually a little more complicated
Indeed.
“here look at this”
"two days later russia started the war ! Can you belive it , i consume imperial core media ! "
I notice none of those are located in the area labeled Russian Federation.
You may notice that they form concentrated barrages along lines of advance, such as one might make if one were about to launch a maneuvering assault, upon two territories recognized just earlier that week as sovereign states by Russia, and with which it signed defensive pacts.
Are you suggesting there was even the remotest possibility that Ukraine was going to invade Russia? Cuz I’ve heard some dumbass takes, but my God.
Bruv if you could read you’d see the numerous comments saying we don’t support Russia.
You don’t have to support Russia to question the validity of news sources…
What part of that comment can be construed as pro-Russia?
The part complaining about a lack of Russian state-controlled news media?
That’s not what he meant and you know it. He’s making light of an obvious double standard regarding the standing in which we hold two sources with obvious national biases.
They might not know it. There hasn’t been a lot of particularly complex analysis here and they very well might be operating on the level of “bad news bad, good news good”.
Honestly, why are we even wasting time here?
Hell, I dunno. This sort of thing got through to me eventually, maybe I’m hoping I can change minds myself.
Fair, fair.
Ah, I see you already came to a similar conclusion!
That’s not what I meant dickweed
I thought liberals were all about lesser evils
Everything you say about Russia is true, but that doesn’t change the fact that this is a proxy war where US is trying to weaken Russia. You can just be against a senseless war that’s killing hundreds of thousands of people and destroying lives of millions more. Anybody who is even minimally engaging with reality can see that this war will only end one way. What the west is doing is prolonging it without changing the outcome. People of Ukraine are being cynically thrown into a meat grinder so that US can score a win in a geopolitical chess game with Russia.
I fully agree w/ you about NATO’s obviously non-altruistic motivations for fuelling the war but I think the Ukrainian position itself has to be considered in the whole conflagration. Without that, we cannot really analyse when and how the war might end. For Ukrainians it’s not the case they’re being forced or deceived into fighting, it is a war of national survival! It is a war against an aggressor seeking to at the very least oppress Ukrainian national identity if not destroy it entirely as a political and social force. Even without western support the Ukrainians would have fought and Russia wouldn’t have won straight away (because they already had a fair few weapons and the west had spent 8 years already reforming and rebuilding the army from 2014 onwards). The thing to remember is that urban combat is EXTREMELY DIFFICULT for the attacker. To put it into context, a city the size of Kyiv has not been taken by an enemy against a committed defender since WW2! Taking a city the size of Kyiv or bigger, no battle lasting longer than 8 days (one of the battles for Seoul) has been won by the attacker. Consider the defences being set up for the capital-vast networks of local militia, booby traps and tank traps, every building and every basement being turned into a place for fighting. Russia would have to take this huge city street by street, building by building. This is an incredibly difficult feat. While Russia would obviously be doing a lot better without western arming, the war would still be going on and would be no less bloody. Even Mariupol and especially Bakhmut have been extremely difficult for both sides, Kyiv would be a whole new level, especially since it’s the capital.
Then after that there’d still be the whole western half of the country where troops can, at the border, slip into Poland/Romania when needed. There are so many big cities in Ukraine that if they were committed to defending it, taking over the whole country would be insanely difficult. As I say, a committed defender has not lost an urban battle in a city the size of Kyiv since, like, the Battle of Berlin in WW2. It would require a total societal commitment to the war in Russia which Russians are not willing to tolerate. The current Russian Army is not up to the task!
Let’s imagine, though, that the end of western support did bring about an impulse for peace within the current leadership. What do you think happens if Zelensky signs a peace deal that gives up land? He, a Russian-speaking Jew who used to be on Russian TV and regularly went to the country. He would be deemed a Russian traitorous Jew and would be overthrown and possibly killed by the nationalist and far-right elements within the Ukrainian Army who have gathered disproportionate strength relative to the actual support for fascist politics in the country since 2014 because of Russia’s (yes, and NATO’s) actions. Then the war would continue anyway, but likely with far less restraint against Russian-speaking citizens and Russian soldiers.
So at the minute there honestly is NO ROUTE TO PEACE because of the internal dynamics in Ukrainian politics both because the population believes the war is winnable and is committed at all costs to fight for their survival against the aggressor, and because there are spoilers within the Ukrainian state + army that have enough power to effectively ‘veto’ it. It is impossible to conceive of peace until there is a mutually hurting stalemate between the two sides in which neither believe they can win and in which both are deeply hurting in the status quo such that the value of continuing war is no longer high enough to justify the suffering. We are not there yet, so whether or not the west arms them is quite beside the point. Indeed, if anything it’d bolster Russia and make them less likely to make concessions for peace. Not that I’m supporting this that or the other arming of far-right militias (I believe any armaments should explicitly exclude Azov and such), but I do not believe the logic of bringing about peace held by many of my fellow Hexbears is correct.
The reality is that Ukraine lost its sovereignty when the legitimate and democratically elected government was overthrown in a coup. That’s when the war started between the regime in western Ukraine backed by the west and the east. Western media actually reported on this as well
- CNN coverage of Donbas in 2014 https://twitter.com/paulius60/status/1611148483859255296
- HRW report https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/10/20/ukraine-widespread-use-cluster-munitions
- Donbas documentary 2016 https://yewtu.be/watch?v=bN68OfFKaWs
I agree that at this point Ukraine is basically fucked. There was a possibility to make a deal back in March last year, but US and UK decided to sabotage it. Now, Russia will likely go all the way and there’s not going to be an Ukraine left when this war ends.
For Ukrainians it’s not the case they’re being forced or deceived into fighting, it is a war of national survival! It is a war against an aggressor seeking to at the very least oppress Ukrainian national identity if not destroy it entirely as a political and social force.
Russia is not interested in conquering Ukraine. They’re interested in goals like keeping Ukraine out of NATO, maintaining access to the Black Sea, and not having ethnic Russians who don’t wish to be a part of Ukraine killed on their borders.
I disagree with this. No, I don’t think Russia wants to ‘annex’ all of Ukraine per se, I think the original goal was to invade, quickly topple the government, then set up a puppet state which would be subservient to Russian interests. This would perhaps be combined with an annexation of much of the east. It was set to be a more successful version of Georgia 2008 (which from an operational level was a bit of a screw-up, but Georgia was weak enough that it went well enough anyhow).
Ukraine had signalled its willingness to stay out of NATO before the invasion started. Access to the Black sea was definitely an issue but not the primary war goal, hence why Russia initially directed its most intense attack towards Kyiv (it was not a feint, Russia dedicated a huge amount of manpower here and made an earnest attempt to sweep through the capital here). I think it’s pretty obvious the Russian government doesn’t care at all about ethnic Russians/Russian speakers as this war has made life a hell of a lot worse for most of them. Plus the accusation of ‘genocide’ against the Donbass was vastly exaggerated and a clearly cooked up justification.
What would you call the annexed regions if not conquered? “Liberated”? Get a grip
I would call them annexed. The people in them do not want to remain part of Ukraine, they’re fine with being part of Russia, and that’s the touchstone here.
Russia is not interested in conquering the whole of Ukraine, because most of the people in the western part do want to remain Ukrainian, not Russian.
Do you actually think the referendums were legitimate? In Crimea there likely was a majority who wanted to join Russia but even then the results were way higher than in previous polling. Plus Kherson and Kharkiv areas were and are not pro-Russian since the invasion and the referendums there were clearly falsified.
It’s not a simple ethnic conflict and the majority of Russian speakers in Ukraine do not want to secede to Russia and do not support the invasion. It is harder to tell in the Donbass because of a lack of data but it is still true that Russia orchestrated the removal of independent-minded leaders for puppets from 2014-2018 or so.
Ahh, the rare sane hexbear user I still have hopes for you lot you’re definitely not as bad as lemmygrad.
However, let me add something:
It is impossible to conceive of peace until there is a mutually hurting stalemate between the two sides in which neither believe they can win
You leave out the scenario of Russians getting kicked out of the country. Which is going to lead to Putin being sent to his Dacha, and if not and he somehow clings on Ukraine having all its territory opens NATO membership which means that the Russian general staff is going to shit bricks and rather putsch than attack.
What do you think happens if Zelensky signs a peace deal that gives up land? He, a Russian-speaking Jew who used to be on Russian TV and regularly went to the country. He would be deemed a Russian traitorous Jew and would be overthrown and possibly killed by the nationalist and far-right elements within the Ukrainian Army
He a) wouldn’t do that and b) since when is Ukraine antisemitic you’re confusing it with… pretty much all other countries in that area and c) you don’t need to invoke far-right fucks (who are a tiny minority btw) the rest of the country would, well, send him to a Dacha.
And ever if: At that point we’d be in the situation many predicted in the first days of the invasion: Fall of the government, but Ukrainians then fighting a partisan war. And Ukraine right now is just in way too good a position to switch to that.
All in all, the way forward to quick peace is clear: Help Ukraine win this thing. It’s both the best option from a direct humanitarian POV by cutting the war short, as well as the best option for wider humanity and the future: Not allowing states intending to conquer to get away with such behaviour. Discouraging wars of aggression is important by itself and one of the reasons why Ukrainians fight so hard, they see the universalism in their own national struggle it just all aligns so well.
“If we make sure every last Ukrainian dies, they will finally have peace”
- ^This guy^
Ahh, reading comprehension, in some places truly a luxury.
you are welcome. Since you are asking for more people to die than less people to die, and you say it’s for peace. I’ve decided simplifying your long ass post for everyone.
You leave out the scenario of Russians getting kicked out of the country. Which is going to lead to Putin being sent to his Dacha, and if not and he somehow clings on Ukraine having all its territory opens NATO membership which means that the Russian general staff is going to shit bricks and rather putsch than attack.
This is unviable. The best weaponry available to Ukraine was shattered against the Russian frontline-they can barely even take a few villages, let alone Melitopol, and let alone Crimea and the rest of the country! There is no indication that Ukraine has the strength to launch successful counterattacks. In Kherson and Kharkhiv Russia retreated for tactical reasons as their positions were undefendable-this is not the case w/ the current frontlines. It is utopian thinking.
He a) wouldn’t do that and b) since when is Ukraine antisemitic you’re confusing it with… pretty much all other countries in that area and c) you don’t need to invoke far-right fucks (who are a tiny minority btw) the rest of the country would, well, send him to a Dacha.
No, I don’t thjink he would.
“Ukraine” isn’t a ‘real’/reified entity, what I am saying is that the far-right has disproportionate strength in the Ukrainian army (and, to an extent, the state intelligence apparatus) because of the power vaccuum created by the 2014 invasion and the collapse of the pre-existing Ukrainian Army, then in 2022 because it was the best organised forces in the areas seeing the most intense fighting. While Nazis do NOT have much support among the population, the state still has a strong strategic-structural liability to these far-right groups…largely thanks to the actions of Russia!
And ever if: At that point we’d be in the situation many predicted in the first days of the invasion: Fall of the government, but Ukrainians then fighting a partisan war. And Ukraine right now is just in way too good a position to switch to that.
Yes, I agree, which is why I don’t think Zelensky will sign a peace. It is unviable.
All in all, the way forward to quick peace is clear: Help Ukraine win this thing. It’s both the best option from a direct humanitarian POV by cutting the war short, as well as the best option for wider humanity and the future: Not allowing states intending to conquer to get away with such behaviour. Discouraging wars of aggression is important by itself and one of the reasons why Ukrainians fight so hard, they see the universalism in their own national struggle it just all aligns so well.
I do not see how Ukraine can win this-even with western weaponry they have failed in their counteroffensive. What else do they need? Western boots on the ground is certainly not possible.
The best weaponry available to Ukraine was shattered against the Russian frontline-they can barely even take a few villages,
Ukraine send like two and a half Leos out to see if a frontal assault would work, and it didn’t, so they didn’t do it again. The vast majority of western systems are still intact and in any case: If things like MBTs and APVs don’t get destroyed you’re not using them. Things get shot at in wars and it’s no secret that a direct artillery hit will kill any tank.
Meanwhile, though, Ukraine is inflicting heavy attrition on Russian artillery, as well as choppers. Don’t let the lines on maps confuse you there’s a lot happening that isn’t visible there.
what I am saying is that the far-right has disproportionate strength in the Ukrainian army
That would mean that all those people who joined since 2014, 2022 are far-right? Which would mean that the whole of Ukraine is far-right. Which makes no sense when you look at the election results with Svoboda having one seat in the Rada.
then in 2022 because it was the best organised forces in the areas seeing the most intense fighting.
Ukraine built its army from 2014, recruiting ordinary people, training them according to NATO doctrine (giving status and independence to NCOs, mission command, such stuff), with NATO help, we sent like a gazillion of instructors. Many many Nazis left Azov after they were integrated into the National Guard, and the whole thing was actively depoliticised.
Are there still Nazis in Azov? Almost certainly. But the days of them dominating and openly running around with SS runes on their helmets are definitely over. Just as a side note btw Azov is and always was Russian-speaking, Ukrainian nationalism gets complicated.
I do not see how Ukraine can win this-even with western weaponry they have failed in their counteroffensive.
No. Ukrainian generals have been very clear about this from the beginning: The offensive is going to drag on for a very long time due to the lack of materiel to do anything big. Conditions have improved somewhat with Stormshadow and Taurus is bound to come soon but Ukraine has no weapons with which it could just obliterate Russian artillery en masse which would then allow them to bring in slow and vulnerable materiel to clear minefields etc. to enable them to break through the line with heavy armour. They, as already said, have to slowly grind down Russian artillery where they can.
The other way would be actual air superiority. Dunno if those F16s will suffice to switch to full NATO strategy but it’s certainly going to give the Russian side quite some trouble.
Speaking of NATO strategy that’s probably the reason this impression exists: Yeah if Ukraine had a fully equipped NATO army they’d disable the whole Russian rear from the air, then parachute in armour to attack the Russian lines from the rear and the whole thing would be over in no time. The kind of not war but beating you saw on TV so many times. Like Operation Desert Storm. But Ukraine doesn’t have a fully equipped NATO army, it’s a Soviet-style army half-way switching to NATO doctrine drip-fed some NATO surplus.
Oh another tidbit: Russia mobilised all its reserves to the front, quite some while ago. Ukraine didn’t they’re rotating troops in and out. Which is why you see renewed conscription drives in Russia, which then poses the question on what kind of equipment they’re supposed to be equipped with, not to speak of the additional instability doing that causes.
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Nowhere do I voice support for Russia. It’s that any nuance with regard to the Ukraine conflict is seen as ‘defending russia’, which you’ve just proven, again.
Edit: nvm, you’re that asshole that used the Sartre quote about anti-semitism to justify your anti-communism. You don’t want to learn. Almost as if you’re a bot
Because you have the reading comprehension of a grade schooler and are apparently incapable of handling such complexities as “Just because they’re winning doesn’t mean we support them” and “everybody in this conflict is an asshole except the non-Nazis soldiers being slaughtered so defense contractors can put in new pools in Arlington”.
This isn’t some law of attraction thing. Admitting that Ukraine is at best stalemated isn’t going to cause them to magically lose.
There’s a lot of layers to this. Among them the problem that yanks and other westerners with an exceptionalist world outlook have been convinced that only the good guys win, and that to win means to be the good guy no matter how abhorrent they are. So to accept that Russia is winning or, at least, that Ukraine can’t win, means accepting that Russia is in fact the good guy. Which is clearly nonsense, but then neither you nor I are making the claim.
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We don’t. However America is worse. So it is nice to neoliberal infighting. Bonus, America losing is better overall for world peace.
Why do posters from Hexbear defend Russia so much?
You’re an idiot
Keep talking
Tankies gonna tank.
It is a proxy war against America. You don’t win those. You just set yourself up a good position and dig in. America gets bored and leaves and then you can pick over what is left of what was destroyed. So you don’t win, you just wait for America to forfeit.
I just got a knock at the door brb I gotta go see who it is
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Then. Just. Fucking. LEAVE!
Reddit level comment
Maybe the Ukrainians should negotiate and recognize the Donbas as no longer their territory somce the people living there have have democratically expressed that they want to leave. Then this can be over. Of course they could only negotiate if the US/NATO allows it, which is why this war keeps going on
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I dunno, I think we should respect the voice and choice of the people, this being a democracy and all. If people vote for something we have to respect it, like it or not, this isn’t some authoritarian nightmare state were we supress democratic parties we disagree with and repress minorities like Roma or jews, right?
Would you support the richest region of a country to separate by locals-only referendum so they don’t have to support the poor ones anymore?
no no no ,… if they have the right Friends , or if they fight against the convinent enemy , it is absolutly possible … its always just geopolitics in the end …,
Sorry but the Slaugther of the Donbass will be stopped. Even if you dont Care for it.
Slava Ukraini, Crimea is Ukraine, and if you don’t like it you can taste nuclear fire. HOOYAH AMERICA. The SSBN force stands ready to set condition 1SQ for strategic launch! Fuck the FSB, fuck Putin, and fuck anyone who supports them. KILL THE BEAR. Churchill should’ve followed through with Operation Unthinkable when he had the chance.
They do when the democratically elected government is overthrown in a coup and the far right replacements start passing laws targeted at making people of your ethnic background illegal. Especially when the shelling starts, you do.
Yeah, Texas and Floriduh for example.
If only the little man at the big table didn’t have such a Napoleon complex
Khodakovsky is already in his home country, which he has been defending from Azov since 2014.
Imagine linking kyivpost as if it’s a credible source. Might as well link an article from Weekly World News next.
edit: I love how downvotes immediately come in when you point out the obvious, as long as the article says what people want to hear they all of a sudden stop caring about credible sources
Kyivpost, propaganda rag.
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