• nachobel@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Remember when the Afghan people had a phenomenally well equipped and well trained army, and then they just gave up inside a week because things were “hard”?

    Like if you don’t give a shit…no one is going to give a harder shit about you than you will.

    • donuts@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      Yeah man, I feel sorry for the people who will have to live under the fucking Taliban, but we’ve spent way too much time, money and blood on Afghanistan already.

      We shouldn’t have been there in the first place, but for them to just instantly roll over to the Taliban… Just compare it to Ukraine, where they are fighting for their lives and freedom against a much more powerful enemy.

      It’s long past time for Afghanistan to deal with their own problems.

      • Roboticide@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Yeah, like what do they expect? Another foreign military intervention?

        That will not happen again for decades at best. Longer if all the developed nations really learn from America’s mistake this time.

        Sure, we can sanction them, but any aid just gets intercepted, so that’s out. It sucks so many Afghans are suffering under the system, but it’s the system they let happen. Did they want to be an occupied country forever? Was this a fight America was expected to wage indefinitely? Ten years was already too long.

      • Microw@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        They should have trained the Afghani women who have an actual reason to fight against the Taliban, instead of the lazy men who instantly capitulated.

        • vanontom@geddit.social
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          1 year ago

          I never thought about this at the time. It was all just shocking and frankly pathetic. Didn’t realize the men had the least at stake, while women had the most, but were not allowed to join the fight. Many men probably didn’t care or even resented the “changes”. (Women’s rights. Sounds familiar. MAGA?) Unwilling to put up any kind of fight for that kind of future for their partners and daughters.

          I wonder what most Afghan women think of these men now. And if joining the military was ever a realistic possibility, and could have changed the result.

      • postmateDumbass@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Tbf Afghanistan defeated a much stronger Russia back in the 80s.

        With less help than Ukraine gets.

        Edit: so the downvotes are just ignorant of history or are they trying to rewrite it to suit their own agendas? Regardless, not a good sign for the future.

        • Deathcrow@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          Tbf Afghanistan defeated a much stronger Russia back in the 80s.

          Those were pretty much the Taliban though. No one doubts the will to fight of the Taliban.

      • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Well, that sounds like propaganda videos where they had already surrendered and the taliban wanted to make it seem like all it would take was one person to make people volunteer…

        But, you’re also talking about all the equipment that was expensive but neither side had the knowledge or equipment to maintain, right?

        • Wisely@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          Might have been propaganda, most things are these days.

          Do you have more info about what happened then? There definitely wasn’t much fighting so I was assuming the majority must have surrendered without a fight.

          I never saw videos of fighting just people surrendering or fleeing. Army friends who were in Afghanistan recently said they just gave up. Would love to know if they did put any defense up.

          • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Do you have more info about what happened then?

            About why the Taliban took over so quickly?

            Yeah, Afghanistan isn’t a normal country. It’s a loose collection of tribes that have been pitted against each other for centuries. There’s no unity, they’ve never really had a federal government just other countries that used militaries to try and force compliance from all the tribal leaders.

            So when America left with like 2 weeks notice, everyone just went back to their tribes. The “Afghan Army” had better equipment, but it was equipment they just couldn’t maintain. After a couple weeks of fighting it would have all broken down and they’d have ran out of ammo. Meanwhile the Taliban had supply lines and decades of experience fighting with their equipment.

            The Taliban is just a coalition of the most extreme tribes. One that was trained in gurellia warfare by America and is actually united in their religious extremism.

            • Wisely@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              Trump signed an agreement with the Taliban on February 29th, 2020 to withdraw by May 21st 2021.

              https://www.factcheck.org/2021/08/timeline-of-u-s-withdrawal-from-afghanistan/

              Biden extended the date to by August 31st but it fell to the Taliban ~ August 6th-15th.

              Biden blames it on the Afghan Army not fighting and President fleeing the country. He is probably deflecting but I am not seeing anything about the Taliban having any major military victories or strategy besides showing up and announcing themselves.

              I wouldn’t be surprised if they had eventually won with their experience like you said but it doesn’t appear that they needed to fight.

            • SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Yup. One of the first things we did in the invasion of Afghanistan was ally with the northern tribes. The Taliban mainly represent one ethnic group and constantly engaged in ethnic cleansing of Shia, other tribes, and various minorities.

    • livus@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      First of all, none of these women were in that army so painting this as the consequences of their actions seems a bit dishonest.

      Second, I remember when they were alleged to have a phenomenal army but it turned out most of that was on paper not real.

      The facade crumbled.

      • ballogh@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        none of these women were in that army so painting this as the consequences of their actions seems a bit dishonest.

        What makes you think that these women who choose their culture as dignity would oppose their rulers which they gained power from it?

        • livus@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          I’m sorry but I don’t understand this question, could you maybe rephrase it or explain your reasoning? I don’t think these women have “gained power” it seems like the opposite.

          First woman quoted in the article (a refugee):

          “I had a beautiful house and a job that I loved. I lived with my family, I had friends and I was pregnant. But I lost my baby, I fled my country without my husband and now I live here alone. I’m safe, but do you think I’m happy, do you think I can sleep at night knowing my family’s situation in Afghanistan?”

    • Doorbook@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Remember that the government is installed by the US and allies. If they actually care, the could have spent some time to find candidates that can gather people around and build a unionized front along with education and infrastructure. The reality is they put a thief in power who is now living somewhere in Europe and enjoying his wealth.

      Blaming a victim complaining about their experience or at least expectations is in bad taste.

      • Cleverdawny@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        candidates that can gather people around and build a unionized front along with education and infrastructure

        I don’t think that person existed in Afghanistan.

    • TheRazorX@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      Remember when the Afghan people had a phenomenally well equipped and well trained army, and then they just gave up inside a week because things were “hard”?

      You didn’t read the Afghanistan Papers did you?