So Putin is better for Ukraine?

For Ukraine - I don’t know what “Putin for Ukraine” means… If Ukraine would be Putin’s then it probably wouldn’t be Ukraine but Russia (unless Putin would be a president of both countries or something…)? I don’t think it would be good or bad, Ukraine existing or not doesn’t change much IMHO, but I’m open to hearing your arguments here.

For Ukrainians - of course! The shit that Zelensky does to Ukrainians is exactly (and even worse than) what the west scares public Putin would do. Ukrainians on liberated territories(controlled by Putin) have way more freedoms than those on territories controlled by Zelensky’s regime, including one of the most basic freedoms - freedom of movement and not being kidnapped on a street and be sent to die…

Thank you.

You mean funding the arms that Ukraine is using to defend itself?

Yes, sending weapons and money to Zelensky’s regime, which lets him to continue staying in power and terorrize Ukrainians by forbidding people to leave the country and kidnapping them from the streets to send them to the meatgrinder.

What makes you think that ending Russia’s horrifying invasion is more likely under a trump-ruled USA?

Because dems have been funding this war since the beginning, and would certainly continue to do so? I think Harris explicitly said that she will continue the war (or something along those lines).

Trump said that he is going to finish it by forcing both sides to negotiate. (Yes yes I know, every politician’s main job is lying. But when one person says that they will definitely kill everybody I know continuing the job of their predecessor, and the second one at least promises that they will not, whatever credibility that promise has in your opinion - I’m choosing the second one)

No, I meant Ukraine as a country could surrender.

Well, it just so happens that I care more about people, actual living humans, their lives, and not countries.

I believe kidnapping citizens to fight is basically an express draft.

I believe kidnapping people and sending them to die is kidnapping people and sending them to die.

Not that this conversation matters. Neither of our opinions matter.

Well, that’s true I guess. Like most/all of the “battles” in comments. I just don’t think there is something more I can do to stop Zelensky terrorizing people, other than try to convince randos on the internet to stop supporting his regime :(

Trump will stop support

I sure hope so, this is the only (realistic) outcome where my family and friends and every other Ukrainian survive.

will becomes west Russia

I don’t think so, that’s just a scarecrow the west is using to continue the war.

I’m sure they will be kidnapped off the streets and drafted to go fight another war somewhere

1. Doesn’t happen in Russia on an even remotely similar scale.
2. People in Russia “under Putin’s boot” can always leave the country (and of course go to the greatest country on Earth with the most benevolent leader - Ukraine). People in Ukraine are Zelensky’s slaves.

I’m sure they didn’t treat Ukranians poorly

Well, now Russia definitely does treat us better though. Those who are in the liberated cities are the lucky ones who can freely move around.

Make them die?

Yes, exactly.

They can surrender themselves right?

How? Surrendering in modern warfare is super hard, you will either be droned by enemy because they mistake your surrendering for attacking, or by your side for surrendering.

As long as they want to fight I see no reason not to supply them with the means to usurp the oppressers.

Sure, supply those who want to fight. You do know though, that people in Ukraine are given no choice? Zelensky forbade people to leave the country (and he is way more successful at keeping the western border safe than eastern one (that is, from people wanting to escape this hell) - weak against strong ones, and strong against weak ones). Zelensky’s regime kidnaps people from the streets and sends them to the meatgrinder. If you care about “helping people fight against oppressive regimes” you should support those people, not the ones terrorizing them.

Perhaps if you’re some combination of white, or straight, or cisgender, or neurotypical, or rich, then this is good news. For anyone else its dire.

I am Ukrainian. I have no idea whether Slavic people are considered white or not, but I am quite sure I’d benefit from a literal war in my country ending.

I recall they said the same about Hilter. It was called appeasement. Don’t accept bullies demands. Period.

Then go sign up for foreign legion and go make sure Putin loses. Don’t make Ukrainians die instead of you for your wild fantasies.

I’m sure he will, by giving Ukraine to Russia

Wouldn’t happen, but even this is way better than giving it to Zelensky.

and letting them murder Zelensky.

No way. I mean that would be awesome of course, bringing justice to that murderer who killed hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians, terrorizing the rest for three years and not letting people escape. But that would never happen, USA almost certainly gave Zelensky some guarantees that he will be able to escape to USA after this war ends.

Ah yes, the usual undefeatable argument of libs/dems/whatever - if you don’t like us slaughtering people you know, then you are fascist, dumb and most importantly a Russian bot and fuck you. 🙃

Yeah, that’s a monkey paw wish. His “ending the war in Ukraine” almost certainly means giving Putin whatever he wants.

Even if you are right (I don’t think so), so what?

How is this worse then what is hapenning now (to Ukrainians)?

Inb4 probably some delusiomal fantasies about how Putin is gonna invade the whole world, etc. :/

The best news in the last three years! :)

I just hope that he will follow through with quickly finishing the war in Ukraine.

Nope, Ukraine.

Why would you think that I’m talking about Russia? Is it Russia that doesn’t let its citizens out of the country?

Well, it seems that we won’t come to an agreement here.

As I said, for me mass forbidding people to leave the country is unjustifiable. If some regime does it, whatever the reason, it deserves to be destroyed, and I wholeheartedly support the destruction of that regime. I wouldn’t like to live under such a regime and wouldn’t wish it for other people.

And yeah, I’m not going to stop caring about mine and other people’s freedom :)

There can be no justification for mass forbidding people to leave the country.

country desperately defending themselves

This is exactly the same justification Zelensky is using. Both are wrong.

But what is the contradiction here? :)

In my mind North Korea associates with people being unable to leave it (which you don’t deny), Zelensky did the same to Ukraine, therefore the analogy.

Spoiler alert, the two words are “No Gamechanger”.

I don’t know what could be a “gamechanger” in a war where one side (of course the good one) prevents its people from leaving the country, kidnaps people from the streets to sends them to the frontlines to die, and then has the audacity to complain that people are deserting in record high numbers and either try to escape the country or hide until the regime falls… :/

Well, I wasn’t saying that NK kidnaps and massacres its citizens like Zelensky’s regime does, I was referring to not being able to leave the country, and in that regard the regimes seems similar to me.

I mean they have a grand total of 3 borders of which one is shoot to kill zone, and while they have to get passport and probably visa too they can go to China and Russia, though the numbers aren’t that high afaik.

So it’s not a problem for North Koreans to obtain a passport and cross the border into China/Russia (and from there to any other country, of course provided that that country will let them in)? From what I’ve heard it’s next to impossible, but if that’s just western/American propaganda I’d like to read some articles and learn something new.

I have looked only at the name of the links and not the actual content (there are too many of them) - but I didn’t notice anything about North Koreans being able to leave the country by means other than “illegally” crossing the border (this is the criterian I used to compare the countries)? If one of the links covers this topic I’d be interested in reading it.