""In a normal society, a former president—let’s call him Donald Trump—who’s been indicted three times in under four months, on charges ranging from obstruction of justice to conspiracy to defraud the United States, would have absolutely no chance of ever being president again. It straight up would not be a scenario anyone would have to even contemplate; even if this individual were not in prison, the idea that they would be able to run for and win higher office once more would not compute.
But unfortunately, we don’t live in a normal society; instead, we live in a place in which millions of people not only still support Donald Trump, but grow fonder of him with every new criminal charge. Which means that, despite the aforementioned indictments*, the twice-impeached, thrice-indicted ex-president is dominating every other candidate for the Republican nomination, and currently looks to be the most likely GOP nominee in the 2024 general election. That, of course, scares the shit out of a lot of people—including, apparently, one Barack Obama. Whose fear, it has to be said, is extremely unsettling!
The Washington Post reports that during a private lunch with Joe Biden in late June, the 44th president “voiced concern about Donald Trump’s political strengths—including an intensely loyal following, a Trump-friendly conservative media ecosystem, and a polarized country—underlining his worry that Trump could be a more formidable candidate than many Democrats realize.” According to people familiar with the conversation, “Obama made it clear his concerns were not about Biden’s political abilities, but rather a recognition of Trump’s iron grip on the Republican Party.”
Obama’s concerns are certainly warranted: In a New York Times/Siena poll released on Monday, Trump led his closest competition, Ron DeSantis, by a whopping 37 points. An even wilder data point that seems to validate Obama’s fears was that Trump beat DeSantis even among Republicans who believe he committed “serious federal crimes.” To be clear, that means these people believe Trump is a criminal, and want him to be president anyway.
As FiveThirtyEight optimistically notes, should Trump be convicted before November 5, 2024, voters might be less inclined to cast a ballot for him, and presumably they’d be even less so if he’s sentenced to time in prison. (In the case of the most recent indictment, two of the charges carry up to 20 years behind bars, and compared to her colleagues, the judge assigned to the case has imposed the toughest sentences for January 6 defendants.) Though, who knows!
As for a potential Trump-Biden rematch, another Times/Siena Poll poll published this week put the two in a tie, with each receiving 43% of the vote—which, for people who think democracy is worth preserving, is pretty pants-shittingly scary.
In somewhat happier news, Obama reportedly promised at the same June lunch “to do all he could to help the president get reelected.” And in a statement, a spokesman for Biden’s campaign told the Post: “President Biden is grateful for his unwavering support, and looks forward to once again campaigning side-by-side with President Obama to win in 2024 and finish the job for the American people.”
*And everything else!
Mike Pence giveth and Mike Pence taketh away
Yes, he tweeted yesterday that “anyone who puts himself over the Constitution should never be President,” but then he basically suggested today that Trump was just listening to his lawyers’ advice when he tried to overturn the election—which, coincidentally, is a defense Trump is reportedly planning to use."
Honest question, how can we ever get out of this? Is it just human nature for most of the population to not have critical thinking skills? Is it possible to reach a world where the majority of people have even just a little empathy?
It’s just so sad. It’s so clear to anyone even kinda paying attention that we possess the technical capacity as a society to meet everyone’s needs and eliminate so much human-caused suffering at the detriment to absolutely nobody. We could be working toward a society where everyone has community, safety, security, opportunity. We could do so much if all we did was kind of give a shit about each other.
But no. Let’s elect the guy who mocked a disabled reporter, encourages white supremacy, committed treason, etc.
Donald Trump is just a guy. A shitty guy, but just a guy. He’s not what is ruining the world, but the fact that so many Americans want to vote for that shitty guy as president shows that a massive portion of the population is also just some shitty person, and fuck if that doesn’t just burn up all my hope for this world.
Conservatives with a capital “c” are not brainwashed; they’re not tricked; they’re not progressives who’ve been misinformed. Trump is who they are and what they want.
The Dominion discovery documents demonstrate that Fox News opinion hacks changed their coverage to appease the deplorables. In the case of the big lie, it was the viewers who radicalized right media, not the other way round. Maybe it’s been that way the whole time?
The deplorables number in the millions. We need a plan to defeat and marginalize them in our democracy, not fantasies about changing what they are.
i think it’s just us vs them, which basically has roots in greed, power over others, etc
i think you could probably overturn those things with better instilled skills of long term planning, understanding of things like game theory (sometimes giving something to someone helps both of you! it’s not rewarding laziness: it can be selfish and humane)
i just think the reasoning here doesn’t go further than the initial emotion… there’s been no reinforcement that maybe your first reaction isn’t the right one
I’m going to go ahead and assume you’re not from middle America. It’s a lot more than just shitty people being shitty. This Cracked article from 2016 explains it quite well and I can assure you, as someone who was born and raised and now lives in Trump country, it still holds up. Add seven years of aggressive propaganda and intense radicalization and here we are now. The populist to fascist pipeline is almost complete.
the fact that so many Americans want to vote for that shitty guy as president shows that a massive portion of the population is also just some shitty person
They are scared and have been convinced that he is the only one that can help them. They are not just “shitty people voting for a shitty person” they really believe that the deep state is out to get Donald and these charges are overblown and that Donald will really save America. They won’t realize that Trump only cares about Trump; even if Trump gets another term and burns down the government and fucks everyone they still will think Donald is just one week away from unveiling his plan to fix it all.
They are scared and have been convinced that he is the only one that can help them. They are not just “shitty people voting for a shitty person” they really believe that the deep state is out to get Donald and these charges are overblown and that Donald will really save America. They won’t realize that Trump only cares about Trump; even if Trump gets another term and burns down the government and fucks everyone they still will think Donald is just one week away from unveiling his plan to fix it all.
And that is exactly my problem with that kind of thinking (or rather: believing). How did they arrive at such conclusions? Did Trump actually do ANYTHING to make their personal lives better even for a second? How many examples are there of Mr. Ivory Tower to make even an ounce of positive difference in the lives of rural folks?
So all I can see is a gullible people following the loudest talking head on a whim. It’s really hard for me to feel pity, much less sympathy in this circumstance. Although pity is certainly appropriate.
I’m left of centre, and here’s my take - the “left” is fucking up so badly that the right is going to win.
Ever play a sport and you just trounce your opponent, but the coach says “you weren’t that good! They were just that bad tonight.”
This is the same thing. Trump and the GOP aren’t doing some amazing job of campaigning and manipulating, they’re just up against the weakest opponent who can’t stop scoring on their own fucking net.
One thing the political center lacks in America - and I say center because we don’t have a truly leftist political party - is a vision for the future. They don’t want a fundamental change in how the economy and government work, they just want to keep things steady and work around the edges.
The problem is the economy and government aren’t working for most people and most people want them replaced.
Republicans have a vision. Yeah, it’s a racist, sexist vision that will drag us back to the 1950s, but it’s a vision they can communicate.
What’s the Democrats’ vision? I don’t think it’s mine, of worker cooperatives and high speed rail and free education and universal health care, paid for by shaking Bezos and Musk upside down until no more money comes out. As far as I can tell they just want to keep things going like they have since the 90s.
And then they wonder why they can’t seem to get people to get excited to vote for them.
There’s no representation of the left in American politics, there’s leftist but no political power of a left movement. The closest thing is the recent wave of workers unionization efforts which is at least encouraging.
I do. Where is the good Dem candidate with the platform attacking high cost of living, corporate takeover of housing, backing unions, and looking at funding education, ubi, etc?
It’s be pretty easy to break this wide open and runaway with the election. If they wanted to.
David Brooks wrote a good article in the New York Times today that tries to help shift perspectives a bit to understand this. I’d highly recommend reading it.
That is the farthest thing from a good article that I’ve read in some time. I suppose that it does give some insights to why trumpers act the way they do, however trying to align their actions with some sort of ‘we the elitists need to do a better job at not being elitist’ mentality is rather dumb at first glance, and a bit insidious upon closer examination.
The ideal that “we’re all in this together” was replaced with the reality that the educated class lives in a world up here, and everybody else is forced into a world down there. Members of our class are always publicly speaking out for the marginalized, but somehow we always end up building systems that serve ourselves.
I love how Brooks can talk about class without bringing labor into it. Just a great example of liberals missing the damn point.
Then he goes on to talk about “open immigration” like that’s even close to what we have.
Yeah Brooks is one of those special kind of conservatives who seems to always miss the point in the most aspirational moralized way. Like he taught a class on “humility” that included readings of… himself. I also love his ever-Freudian book title “The Second Mountain” which is about how commitment to marriage is part of a fulfilling life… after he divorced his wife and married his younger assistant.
We also like to parrot shit like “no one is above the law” while requiring perfect situations before ever questioning elected leaders like the president when they blatantly break the law. The US has inverse responsibility, where we blame the poor for being poor and give the wealthy every possible chance to buy their way out of crimes.
@eurekaphoenix
Wonder how these self-same Republicans would react if Obama had operated like Trump and was being indicted for the same alleged crimes? 🤔
""In a normal society, a former president—let’s call him Donald Trump—who’s been indicted three times in under four months, on charges ranging from obstruction of justice to conspiracy to defraud the United States, would have absolutely no chance of ever being president again. It straight up would not be a scenario anyone would have to even contemplate; even if this individual were not in prison, the idea that they would be able to run for and win higher office once more would not compute.
But unfortunately, we don’t live in a normal society; instead, we live in a place in which millions of people not only still support Donald Trump, but grow fonder of him with every new criminal charge. Which means that, despite the aforementioned indictments*, the twice-impeached, thrice-indicted ex-president is dominating every other candidate for the Republican nomination, and currently looks to be the most likely GOP nominee in the 2024 general election. That, of course, scares the shit out of a lot of people—including, apparently, one Barack Obama. Whose fear, it has to be said, is extremely unsettling!
The Washington Post reports that during a private lunch with Joe Biden in late June, the 44th president “voiced concern about Donald Trump’s political strengths—including an intensely loyal following, a Trump-friendly conservative media ecosystem, and a polarized country—underlining his worry that Trump could be a more formidable candidate than many Democrats realize.” According to people familiar with the conversation, “Obama made it clear his concerns were not about Biden’s political abilities, but rather a recognition of Trump’s iron grip on the Republican Party.”
Obama’s concerns are certainly warranted: In a New York Times/Siena poll released on Monday, Trump led his closest competition, Ron DeSantis, by a whopping 37 points. An even wilder data point that seems to validate Obama’s fears was that Trump beat DeSantis even among Republicans who believe he committed “serious federal crimes.” To be clear, that means these people believe Trump is a criminal, and want him to be president anyway.
As FiveThirtyEight optimistically notes, should Trump be convicted before November 5, 2024, voters might be less inclined to cast a ballot for him, and presumably they’d be even less so if he’s sentenced to time in prison. (In the case of the most recent indictment, two of the charges carry up to 20 years behind bars, and compared to her colleagues, the judge assigned to the case has imposed the toughest sentences for January 6 defendants.) Though, who knows!
As for a potential Trump-Biden rematch, another Times/Siena Poll poll published this week put the two in a tie, with each receiving 43% of the vote—which, for people who think democracy is worth preserving, is pretty pants-shittingly scary.
In somewhat happier news, Obama reportedly promised at the same June lunch “to do all he could to help the president get reelected.” And in a statement, a spokesman for Biden’s campaign told the Post: “President Biden is grateful for his unwavering support, and looks forward to once again campaigning side-by-side with President Obama to win in 2024 and finish the job for the American people.”
*And everything else!
Mike Pence giveth and Mike Pence taketh away
Yes, he tweeted yesterday that “anyone who puts himself over the Constitution should never be President,” but then he basically suggested today that Trump was just listening to his lawyers’ advice when he tried to overturn the election—which, coincidentally, is a defense Trump is reportedly planning to use."
Honest question, how can we ever get out of this? Is it just human nature for most of the population to not have critical thinking skills? Is it possible to reach a world where the majority of people have even just a little empathy?
It’s just so sad. It’s so clear to anyone even kinda paying attention that we possess the technical capacity as a society to meet everyone’s needs and eliminate so much human-caused suffering at the detriment to absolutely nobody. We could be working toward a society where everyone has community, safety, security, opportunity. We could do so much if all we did was kind of give a shit about each other.
But no. Let’s elect the guy who mocked a disabled reporter, encourages white supremacy, committed treason, etc.
Donald Trump is just a guy. A shitty guy, but just a guy. He’s not what is ruining the world, but the fact that so many Americans want to vote for that shitty guy as president shows that a massive portion of the population is also just some shitty person, and fuck if that doesn’t just burn up all my hope for this world.
Education is the only way to overcome this tsunami of stupidity and misinformation. But it’s slow and costly.
Conservatives with a capital “c” are not brainwashed; they’re not tricked; they’re not progressives who’ve been misinformed. Trump is who they are and what they want.
The Dominion discovery documents demonstrate that Fox News opinion hacks changed their coverage to appease the deplorables. In the case of the big lie, it was the viewers who radicalized right media, not the other way round. Maybe it’s been that way the whole time?
The deplorables number in the millions. We need a plan to defeat and marginalize them in our democracy, not fantasies about changing what they are.
i’m not so sure it’s just evil people being evil
i think it’s just us vs them, which basically has roots in greed, power over others, etc
i think you could probably overturn those things with better instilled skills of long term planning, understanding of things like game theory (sometimes giving something to someone helps both of you! it’s not rewarding laziness: it can be selfish and humane)
i just think the reasoning here doesn’t go further than the initial emotion… there’s been no reinforcement that maybe your first reaction isn’t the right one
I’m going to go ahead and assume you’re not from middle America. It’s a lot more than just shitty people being shitty. This Cracked article from 2016 explains it quite well and I can assure you, as someone who was born and raised and now lives in Trump country, it still holds up. Add seven years of aggressive propaganda and intense radicalization and here we are now. The populist to fascist pipeline is almost complete.
They are scared and have been convinced that he is the only one that can help them. They are not just “shitty people voting for a shitty person” they really believe that the deep state is out to get Donald and these charges are overblown and that Donald will really save America. They won’t realize that Trump only cares about Trump; even if Trump gets another term and burns down the government and fucks everyone they still will think Donald is just one week away from unveiling his plan to fix it all.
That ignorance makes them pretty shitty.
I’m not saying they’re fundamentally and permanently shitty, but they are being shitty. Refusing to become a more aware person is shitty.
They are stupid and scared and propaganda is extra powerful on people who are stupid and scared.
And that is exactly my problem with that kind of thinking (or rather: believing). How did they arrive at such conclusions? Did Trump actually do ANYTHING to make their personal lives better even for a second? How many examples are there of Mr. Ivory Tower to make even an ounce of positive difference in the lives of rural folks?
So all I can see is a gullible people following the loudest talking head on a whim. It’s really hard for me to feel pity, much less sympathy in this circumstance. Although pity is certainly appropriate.
I’m left of centre, and here’s my take - the “left” is fucking up so badly that the right is going to win.
Ever play a sport and you just trounce your opponent, but the coach says “you weren’t that good! They were just that bad tonight.”
This is the same thing. Trump and the GOP aren’t doing some amazing job of campaigning and manipulating, they’re just up against the weakest opponent who can’t stop scoring on their own fucking net.
One thing the political center lacks in America - and I say center because we don’t have a truly leftist political party - is a vision for the future. They don’t want a fundamental change in how the economy and government work, they just want to keep things steady and work around the edges.
The problem is the economy and government aren’t working for most people and most people want them replaced.
Republicans have a vision. Yeah, it’s a racist, sexist vision that will drag us back to the 1950s, but it’s a vision they can communicate.
What’s the Democrats’ vision? I don’t think it’s mine, of worker cooperatives and high speed rail and free education and universal health care, paid for by shaking Bezos and Musk upside down until no more money comes out. As far as I can tell they just want to keep things going like they have since the 90s.
And then they wonder why they can’t seem to get people to get excited to vote for them.
There’s no representation of the left in American politics, there’s leftist but no political power of a left movement. The closest thing is the recent wave of workers unionization efforts which is at least encouraging.
Lol. If you say so.
I do. Where is the good Dem candidate with the platform attacking high cost of living, corporate takeover of housing, backing unions, and looking at funding education, ubi, etc?
It’s be pretty easy to break this wide open and runaway with the election. If they wanted to.
The Dems aren’t going to run someone who attacks the economic base of the party is what it comes down to.
David Brooks wrote a good article in the New York Times today that tries to help shift perspectives a bit to understand this. I’d highly recommend reading it.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/02/opinion/trump-meritocracy-educated.html
That is the farthest thing from a good article that I’ve read in some time. I suppose that it does give some insights to why trumpers act the way they do, however trying to align their actions with some sort of ‘we the elitists need to do a better job at not being elitist’ mentality is rather dumb at first glance, and a bit insidious upon closer examination.
I love how Brooks can talk about class without bringing labor into it. Just a great example of liberals missing the damn point.
Then he goes on to talk about “open immigration” like that’s even close to what we have.
Yeah Brooks is one of those special kind of conservatives who seems to always miss the point in the most aspirational moralized way. Like he taught a class on “humility” that included readings of… himself. I also love his ever-Freudian book title “The Second Mountain” which is about how commitment to marriage is part of a fulfilling life… after he divorced his wife and married his younger assistant.
Got any free sources?
Seems 12ft.io doesn’t work for NYT, but archive.is does:
https://archive.is/r8L9I
Too much of our democracy relies on good faith
100% true.
We also like to parrot shit like “no one is above the law” while requiring perfect situations before ever questioning elected leaders like the president when they blatantly break the law. The US has inverse responsibility, where we blame the poor for being poor and give the wealthy every possible chance to buy their way out of crimes.
Except the president and police are literally above the law with the presidential pardon and qualified immunity.
Qualified immunity isn’t abused nearly as often as people think it is.
Civil asset forfeiture is the one they really abuse
They were coming to kill him, and the spinless fuck Pence can’t even stand up for himself.
Mother must be getting tired of looking at his lack of balls when they get ready to shag.
@eurekaphoenix
Wonder how these self-same Republicans would react if Obama had operated like Trump and was being indicted for the same alleged crimes? 🤔