They (both Microsoft and ActiBlizz) pulled games from Steam before, and they’re both back on Steam well ahead of this deal. I don’t see why that would change.
We’ve now seen through court documents and transcripts what many of us suspected in that many of these games and studios that Microsoft purchased for exclusivity were Sony targets for exclusivity as well, so if we had to pick one, the company trailing in the market sounds like the better one to get them as exclusives.
I can only see this as better for competition than Sony running away with the high-end console market, because then there’s realistically only one console to buy.
All that said about the above, fuck exclusivity in general.
I see a lot of people using argument #2 and it’s really short-sighted to treat acquisition the same as exclusivity deals. However much I don’t like either, acquisitions are clearly worse. If you had to pick one, why would you wouldn’t just leave it as case-by-case exclusivity deals?
Say, SquareEnix and Atlus are fully capable of releasing games for other consoles even with all the exclusives they release for Playstation. And nothing stopped Microsoft from waving a wad of cash their way to change their minds.
There is absolutely no way such a large acquisition will be better for competition. The publishers become unable to make their own platform decisions, no matter what benefits there are. You are losing sight of the market as a whole and the independence of studios by focusing exclusively on who gets the #1 console crown.
If you had to pick one, why would you wouldn’t just leave it as case-by-case exclusivity deals?
A case-by-case exclusivity deal for a big publisher like Activision is just exclusivity on about 4 franchises. Let’s be real. They don’t make much more than that these days, which is why those big publishers are looking to sell now that they’ve thoroughly un-diversified themselves. I don’t get to pick which option Microsoft went with, but functionally, it’s not any different.
There is absolutely no way such a large acquisition will be better for competition.
I don’t know you, but there’s a pretty good chance you own a PlayStation 5 and not an Xbox Series X/S. They play almost exactly the same games basically exactly as well as one another, but PS5 is running away with the market. There’s no world where PS5 having so little competition from Xbox is good for anyone. We’re closer to a world with zero consoles than we are to a world where another competitor can break into the market anyway, so I say burn down the way exclusives and consoles work in general (like their own little monopolies on their digital storefronts), but this will result in a more competitive console market than we have now.
I really don’t see how your arguments contribute to your point. Even if Activision Blizzard only had 4 franchises, an acquisition would still be much more drastic than an exclusivity deal. It is not the same as making deals for all franchises.
For an example, as much as Final Fantasy XVI is exclusive to PS5, the new Dragon Quest Monsters will be exclusive for the Switch. SquareEnix can choose what platforms to release what games for, including all of them if they want to.
And to be clear. No, Activision Blizzard doesn’t only have 4 franchises, it has a whole portfolio of franchises, plus many studios under their umbrella. Even if the argument is that they aren’t making games for some franchises, Microsoft could still hire them to make games for different franchises as an exclusive, without acquiring them.
Yes it would be good if Playstation had more competition from XBox, but I have absolutely no confidence that they will get there just by acquiring publishers. They already acquired Zenimax/Bethesda and Redfall turned out to be a disappointment. Same for Halo Infinite. I also remember how pretty much every Rare franchise died, they only have a single game going. Microsoft doesn’t need to buy their way into becoming competitive, and there is no good that will come from doing that, it will only come at an expense of multiplatform games. What they need is to actually fund and make good games. Sony is making God of War and Last of Us with their own studios, they don’t need to buy exclusivity for that. Same with Nintendo making Mario and Zelda. What is Microsoft making? What good would it be to let them have even more publishers and franchises?
Even if the argument is that they aren’t making games for some franchises, Microsoft could still hire them to make games for different franchises as an exclusive, without acquiring them.
They aren’t making games for most of the franchises they own. Current market forces certainly aren’t inspiring them to do so. Contracting them to make a new Metal Arms, for instance, means they’re allocating personnel away from their money makers, which raises the price of that contract to make up for the opportunity cost.
Yes it would be good if Playstation had more competition from XBox, but I have absolutely no confidence that they will get there just by acquiring publishers.
I have absolutely no confidence that they’ll get there without it. And to be clear: I hate that. I hate that when Sony gets an exclusive game, it means I have to wait two years to play it on PC. I hate that my friends hate the new PS5 controller but have to use it because that’s where you play God of War. But exclusives dictate a console’s success, as much as I wish they didn’t. So even if Xbox has quick resume and doesn’t arbitrarily make its old controllers incapable of working on newer games that don’t use the new controller features like Sony does, two friendlier features in the Xbox camp that would influence a purchasing decision in a perfect world, the customer is hardly ever going to pick Xbox, because the market decided exclusives matter that much.
They already acquired Zenimax/Bethesda and Redfall turned out to be a disappointment.
A game that was in production for a long time before it became a Microsoft product.
Sony is making God of War and Last of Us with their own studios, they don’t need to buy exclusivity for that.
There is no functional difference between this and buying other studios, especially since Naughty Dog was also a studio acquisition. Given enough time in the rearview mirror, Activision-Blizzard and Bethesda games will be treated the same way as you just treated that one.
What is Microsoft making? What good would it be to let them have even more publishers and franchises?
We just saw a ton of games that they’re making. And games these days just take so much longer to make, at least at the scale that Microsoft, Sony, and very few other companies insist on making them. Rocksteady has been working for 8 years on one game. The average AAA game has a 5+ year dev cycle now, which is absurd. The next game from Sony Santa Monica likely won’t come out until there’s a PlayStation 6. The likes of InXile, Obsidian, and Double Fine will have quicker turnaround times than most, and even those will take 3+ years. So with that perspective, the Microsoft acquisitions are fairly recent and are only soon going to start bearing fruit like Hellblade; not even Starfield counts in that discussion.
I have absolutely no confidence that they’ll get there without it.
They already have Zenimax and we haven’t much to show for it. It was releasing more games before it was acquired. But I’ll grant that not enough time has passed, though I’d say if Redfall wasn’t up to shape they could and should have changed the release plans.
But for Rare plenty of time has passed. What do they have to show for it? Sea of Thieves and a Killer Instinct game for the whole of the last decade. Banjo has been declared dead, Perfect Dark keeps getting postponed, and nothing else new. It doesn’t bode well.
We just saw a ton of games that they’re making.
It wasn’t all that many, and most of it likely came at expense of what would previously be multiplatform games. Zenimax would still be releasing games if they hadn’t been acquired. Sure, exclusives benefit them but this “competition” was really a net loss for players who don’t have Microsoft platforms. It came at expense of the third-party market.
There is no functional difference between this and buying other studios, especially since Naughty Dog was also a studio acquisition.
There is a marked difference in scale. If they just bought Treyarch or Toys For Bob that wouldn’t be a big deal. But they are bulk buying publishers along with all their studio subsidiaries. Activision Blizzard by itself is the 6th largest publisher. This is not just getting a studio. The comparisons being made to excuse Microsoft’s tactics are really glossing over what a drastic sweeping takeover they are doing, All the while they whine about how tiny and feeble they are, because this massive company doesn’t dominate the gaming market also.
But for Rare plenty of time has passed. What do they have to show for it? Sea of Thieves and a Killer Instinct game for the whole of the last decade.
Killer Instinct was a Rare property but not developed by Rare. And you’re underselling how hugely successful Sea of Thieves has been. (Not that I understand it; the game seems incredibly shallow, but it found a huge audience.) We have a pretty thorough accounting of what Rare’s been doing, and Sea of Thieves happened under new management at Xbox that wasn’t running the show post-Nuts-and-Bolts.
It wasn’t all that many, and most of it likely came at expense of what would previously be multiplatform games. Zenimax would still be releasing games if they hadn’t been acquired. Sure, exclusives benefit them but this “competition” was really a net loss for players who don’t have Microsoft platforms. It came at expense of the third-party market.
The same is true of Sony’s acquisitions.
If you want to talk about scale, the industry in general, especially the type of game that sells these consoles, is so much bigger than it was in the 90s. If you’re buying a studio in an attempt to compete with a console outselling yours 5:1, you’re not buying a studio with a few dozen people who sold a few hundred thousand copies of a game. You’re buying a company with hundreds or thousands of people who sell millions of copies and a large percent of those customers buy DLC and microtransactions, because that’s what moves the needle. A large portion of those customers, by the way, only bought a PlayStation for that game, because that game was associated with PlayStation in the marketing, even though it was also available on Xbox.
Did we, though? Or maybe FTC could prevent further consolidation that will eventually result (and is already) in anticompetitive practices?
I can only see this as better for competition than Sony running away with the high-end console market, because then there’s realistically only one console to buy.
So now your choices will be: 1) pick the console that has more of your favorite games, or 2) now you have to buy BOTH consoles.
Competition means there’s choice. Segregating titles that were once across multiple platforms (choice) into individual platforms (no choice) is anti-competitive.
I can’t really break it down more than that and I thought this was obvious…
You do have choice. You have choice between group of exclusives A and group of exclusives B. It’s better for competition but worse for the consumer. In order for it to be better for the consumer and competition, you’d need to eliminate the concept of exclusives entirely. And I’m all for that, but I don’t know how to make that happen.
Well since exclusives will continue to exist, imagine if, hear me out here, third party titles remained cross platform and group B developed their own set of games at worst through infant studio acquisitions instead of, idk, acquiring the second largest third party publisher in the world (and thus all their studios).
Yeah the poor trillion dollar company couldn’t possibly compete with the billion dollar company by organically building an attractive portfolio. It’s not like they did it before and only lost their position due to their own mishandling of studios and misunderstanding of the market.
They seemingly can’t compete, so this is how they’re making up for the ground that they lost, because right now the console market is not particularly competitive.
Not when there was a whole ecosystem of platform neutral third-party publishers and additional exclusives are taken out of that. You are not getting more and new games, you are just being required to buy an additional device for the same games. How could it be more competitive if the market is consolidated into less companies?
Because a third party publisher is a supplemental actor to a console market when they make games for both platforms. If the one getting its ass kicked makes those games more scarce on its competitor’s console, it becomes more difficult for you, the consumer, to choose one, which means the market got more competitive. Or you buy both, which means both competitors (Nintendo doesn’t really count here) are healthy for each getting your sale. If your default answer was to buy a PlayStation and to hell with Xbox, that’s less competitive.
The third party video game market is in no danger of monopolizing, on the other hand. Ubisoft/EA/ActiBlizz/Take Two all put their eggs in fewer and fewer baskets, and now the Devolver Digitals, Anna Purnas, TinyBuilds, Focus Homes, Paradoxes, and Embracers of the world are growing to fill the market voids those big publishers left by putting out fewer games.
Microsoft creates demand for their system largely by buying up publishers and turning all their future games exclusive, that would otherwise have been multiplatform.
Sony and Nintendo create demand for their system largely by making great games in house, that otherwise never would have existed.
So yes you’re right but one is much shittier than the other.
The games made in house are functionally identical to buying a studio that already existed. It’s a game that can’t be played anywhere else for arbitrary business reasons. I’d consider Sony’s shittier, because I have to wait two years for a PC port, and Nintendo’s shittier still because those games will never legally leave their platform.
The “pick one” mentality may come from the inherent freedom of Activision’s owners. They don’t see any further way for the publisher to grow, so they seek the next logical outcome for themselves: Acquisition. That’s always going to come from a company large enough to be a major force in video games.
“Pick neither” is telling them they are not allowed to do anything with their company.
They could grow by making more games that sell well. More offshoot studios so they can have more parallel production.
If the ONLY way they can grow is to consolidate, then they are as big as they are going to get then. Tough titties. They have a minor duty to shareholders to turn a profit, not to grow at all costs. That’s the problem with current capitalism and will lead to effective monopolies.
I’m opposed to this acquisition but let’s be clear: Activision doesn’t have a “minor duty to shareholders”. They have a fiduciary duty to shareholders.
Yes. But the duty is to put the best interests of the company first. This is ambiguous because it can mean long-term health and stability, or as is more common lately, companies have decided that short-term profits over all else.
So there is no duty to “grow at any cost”. They can be profitable and stable and define that as the best interests of the company.
There are people who would be okay if it were Sony making the acquisition, but I want to believe that most people who are against it feel that no large company should be allowed to buy another large company.
It’s like, does no one remember what Microsoft did in the 90s? They were literally forbidding PC manufacturers from not selling any systems that didn’t include windows.
This deal is bad. It rewards shitty individuals and shitty companies, and hurts consumers and employees. This deal will be a calendar marker of when the gaming industry started to fall. Like when Disney bought Marvel and LucasArts.
They (both Microsoft and ActiBlizz) pulled games from Steam before, and they’re both back on Steam well ahead of this deal. I don’t see why that would change.
There’s a lot of tangible reasons for Microsoft to pull the plug on Steam game sales.
They want to focus Microsoft products as “Cloud-First” wherever possible, and selling copies on Steam hurts this initiative.
They would probably prefer to not give Valve 30% revenue on every game sold for IPs that they own and have their own means of distribution (and even more now that they own Battle.Net) For all businesses, this is simply a case of maximizing profits.
They aren’t happy that Valve are essentially letting people run native windows applications on non-windows platforms.
They view the Steam Deck as a potential competitor to the Xbox or other mobile game initiatives they might have.
They would still love it if we all used Windows Store for downloads wherever possible, which is why they have lately been streamlining the process of getting products on that storefront.
Those are reasons. I don’t know if they would actually follow through and there are reasons for them to not do it, but every decision is a case of weighing the negatives and the positives. It really depends on if Microsoft cares about the public perception of forcing people to use their own store or not. Currently, they do care about forcing people onto clients, but that might not always be the case forever.
I see a lot of people using argument #2 and it’s really short-sighted to treat acquisition the same as exclusivity deals. However much I don’t like either, acquisitions are clearly worse. If you had to pick one, why would you wouldn’t just leave it as case-by-case exclusivity deals?
Say, SquareEnix and Atlus are fully capable of releasing games for other consoles even with all the exclusives they release for Playstation. And nothing stopped Microsoft from waving a wad of cash their way to change their minds.
There is absolutely no way such a large acquisition will be better for competition. The publishers become unable to make their own platform decisions, no matter what benefits there are. You are losing sight of the market as a whole and the independence of studios by focusing exclusively on who gets the #1 console crown.
A case-by-case exclusivity deal for a big publisher like Activision is just exclusivity on about 4 franchises. Let’s be real. They don’t make much more than that these days, which is why those big publishers are looking to sell now that they’ve thoroughly un-diversified themselves. I don’t get to pick which option Microsoft went with, but functionally, it’s not any different.
I don’t know you, but there’s a pretty good chance you own a PlayStation 5 and not an Xbox Series X/S. They play almost exactly the same games basically exactly as well as one another, but PS5 is running away with the market. There’s no world where PS5 having so little competition from Xbox is good for anyone. We’re closer to a world with zero consoles than we are to a world where another competitor can break into the market anyway, so I say burn down the way exclusives and consoles work in general (like their own little monopolies on their digital storefronts), but this will result in a more competitive console market than we have now.
I really don’t see how your arguments contribute to your point. Even if Activision Blizzard only had 4 franchises, an acquisition would still be much more drastic than an exclusivity deal. It is not the same as making deals for all franchises.
For an example, as much as Final Fantasy XVI is exclusive to PS5, the new Dragon Quest Monsters will be exclusive for the Switch. SquareEnix can choose what platforms to release what games for, including all of them if they want to.
And to be clear. No, Activision Blizzard doesn’t only have 4 franchises, it has a whole portfolio of franchises, plus many studios under their umbrella. Even if the argument is that they aren’t making games for some franchises, Microsoft could still hire them to make games for different franchises as an exclusive, without acquiring them.
Yes it would be good if Playstation had more competition from XBox, but I have absolutely no confidence that they will get there just by acquiring publishers. They already acquired Zenimax/Bethesda and Redfall turned out to be a disappointment. Same for Halo Infinite. I also remember how pretty much every Rare franchise died, they only have a single game going. Microsoft doesn’t need to buy their way into becoming competitive, and there is no good that will come from doing that, it will only come at an expense of multiplatform games. What they need is to actually fund and make good games. Sony is making God of War and Last of Us with their own studios, they don’t need to buy exclusivity for that. Same with Nintendo making Mario and Zelda. What is Microsoft making? What good would it be to let them have even more publishers and franchises?
Oh shit, Microsoft nabbed Bubble Witch Saga and Gabriel Knight. Competition is over.
A Gabriel Knight comeback could be pretty cool tbh
They aren’t making games for most of the franchises they own. Current market forces certainly aren’t inspiring them to do so. Contracting them to make a new Metal Arms, for instance, means they’re allocating personnel away from their money makers, which raises the price of that contract to make up for the opportunity cost.
I have absolutely no confidence that they’ll get there without it. And to be clear: I hate that. I hate that when Sony gets an exclusive game, it means I have to wait two years to play it on PC. I hate that my friends hate the new PS5 controller but have to use it because that’s where you play God of War. But exclusives dictate a console’s success, as much as I wish they didn’t. So even if Xbox has quick resume and doesn’t arbitrarily make its old controllers incapable of working on newer games that don’t use the new controller features like Sony does, two friendlier features in the Xbox camp that would influence a purchasing decision in a perfect world, the customer is hardly ever going to pick Xbox, because the market decided exclusives matter that much.
A game that was in production for a long time before it became a Microsoft product.
There is no functional difference between this and buying other studios, especially since Naughty Dog was also a studio acquisition. Given enough time in the rearview mirror, Activision-Blizzard and Bethesda games will be treated the same way as you just treated that one.
We just saw a ton of games that they’re making. And games these days just take so much longer to make, at least at the scale that Microsoft, Sony, and very few other companies insist on making them. Rocksteady has been working for 8 years on one game. The average AAA game has a 5+ year dev cycle now, which is absurd. The next game from Sony Santa Monica likely won’t come out until there’s a PlayStation 6. The likes of InXile, Obsidian, and Double Fine will have quicker turnaround times than most, and even those will take 3+ years. So with that perspective, the Microsoft acquisitions are fairly recent and are only soon going to start bearing fruit like Hellblade; not even Starfield counts in that discussion.
They already have Zenimax and we haven’t much to show for it. It was releasing more games before it was acquired. But I’ll grant that not enough time has passed, though I’d say if Redfall wasn’t up to shape they could and should have changed the release plans.
But for Rare plenty of time has passed. What do they have to show for it? Sea of Thieves and a Killer Instinct game for the whole of the last decade. Banjo has been declared dead, Perfect Dark keeps getting postponed, and nothing else new. It doesn’t bode well.
It wasn’t all that many, and most of it likely came at expense of what would previously be multiplatform games. Zenimax would still be releasing games if they hadn’t been acquired. Sure, exclusives benefit them but this “competition” was really a net loss for players who don’t have Microsoft platforms. It came at expense of the third-party market.
There is a marked difference in scale. If they just bought Treyarch or Toys For Bob that wouldn’t be a big deal. But they are bulk buying publishers along with all their studio subsidiaries. Activision Blizzard by itself is the 6th largest publisher. This is not just getting a studio. The comparisons being made to excuse Microsoft’s tactics are really glossing over what a drastic sweeping takeover they are doing, All the while they whine about how tiny and feeble they are, because this massive company doesn’t dominate the gaming market also.
Killer Instinct was a Rare property but not developed by Rare. And you’re underselling how hugely successful Sea of Thieves has been. (Not that I understand it; the game seems incredibly shallow, but it found a huge audience.) We have a pretty thorough accounting of what Rare’s been doing, and Sea of Thieves happened under new management at Xbox that wasn’t running the show post-Nuts-and-Bolts.
The same is true of Sony’s acquisitions.
If you want to talk about scale, the industry in general, especially the type of game that sells these consoles, is so much bigger than it was in the 90s. If you’re buying a studio in an attempt to compete with a console outselling yours 5:1, you’re not buying a studio with a few dozen people who sold a few hundred thousand copies of a game. You’re buying a company with hundreds or thousands of people who sell millions of copies and a large percent of those customers buy DLC and microtransactions, because that’s what moves the needle. A large portion of those customers, by the way, only bought a PlayStation for that game, because that game was associated with PlayStation in the marketing, even though it was also available on Xbox.
Did we, though? Or maybe FTC could prevent further consolidation that will eventually result (and is already) in anticompetitive practices?
So now your choices will be: 1) pick the console that has more of your favorite games, or 2) now you have to buy BOTH consoles.
Fucking brilliant.
If you felt like you had to buy both consoles, that means the market got more competitive.
Competition means there’s choice. Segregating titles that were once across multiple platforms (choice) into individual platforms (no choice) is anti-competitive.
I can’t really break it down more than that and I thought this was obvious…
You do have choice. You have choice between group of exclusives A and group of exclusives B. It’s better for competition but worse for the consumer. In order for it to be better for the consumer and competition, you’d need to eliminate the concept of exclusives entirely. And I’m all for that, but I don’t know how to make that happen.
🤨
Well since exclusives will continue to exist, imagine if, hear me out here, third party titles remained cross platform and group B developed their own set of games at worst through infant studio acquisitions instead of, idk, acquiring the second largest third party publisher in the world (and thus all their studios).
Then that would be decidedly less competitive between the two consoles.
Yeah the poor trillion dollar company couldn’t possibly compete with the billion dollar company by organically building an attractive portfolio. It’s not like they did it before and only lost their position due to their own mishandling of studios and misunderstanding of the market.
They seemingly can’t compete, so this is how they’re making up for the ground that they lost, because right now the console market is not particularly competitive.
Not when there was a whole ecosystem of platform neutral third-party publishers and additional exclusives are taken out of that. You are not getting more and new games, you are just being required to buy an additional device for the same games. How could it be more competitive if the market is consolidated into less companies?
Because a third party publisher is a supplemental actor to a console market when they make games for both platforms. If the one getting its ass kicked makes those games more scarce on its competitor’s console, it becomes more difficult for you, the consumer, to choose one, which means the market got more competitive. Or you buy both, which means both competitors (Nintendo doesn’t really count here) are healthy for each getting your sale. If your default answer was to buy a PlayStation and to hell with Xbox, that’s less competitive.
The third party video game market is in no danger of monopolizing, on the other hand. Ubisoft/EA/ActiBlizz/Take Two all put their eggs in fewer and fewer baskets, and now the Devolver Digitals, Anna Purnas, TinyBuilds, Focus Homes, Paradoxes, and Embracers of the world are growing to fill the market voids those big publishers left by putting out fewer games.
Microsoft creates demand for their system largely by buying up publishers and turning all their future games exclusive, that would otherwise have been multiplatform.
Sony and Nintendo create demand for their system largely by making great games in house, that otherwise never would have existed.
So yes you’re right but one is much shittier than the other.
The games made in house are functionally identical to buying a studio that already existed. It’s a game that can’t be played anywhere else for arbitrary business reasons. I’d consider Sony’s shittier, because I have to wait two years for a PC port, and Nintendo’s shittier still because those games will never legally leave their platform.
The “pick one” mentality may come from the inherent freedom of Activision’s owners. They don’t see any further way for the publisher to grow, so they seek the next logical outcome for themselves: Acquisition. That’s always going to come from a company large enough to be a major force in video games.
“Pick neither” is telling them they are not allowed to do anything with their company.
They could grow by making more games that sell well. More offshoot studios so they can have more parallel production.
If the ONLY way they can grow is to consolidate, then they are as big as they are going to get then. Tough titties. They have a minor duty to shareholders to turn a profit, not to grow at all costs. That’s the problem with current capitalism and will lead to effective monopolies.
I’m opposed to this acquisition but let’s be clear: Activision doesn’t have a “minor duty to shareholders”. They have a fiduciary duty to shareholders.
Yes. But the duty is to put the best interests of the company first. This is ambiguous because it can mean long-term health and stability, or as is more common lately, companies have decided that short-term profits over all else.
So there is no duty to “grow at any cost”. They can be profitable and stable and define that as the best interests of the company.
I’m getting sick of how the law mandates in favor of companies pushing for unreasonable, untenable and sometimes even destructive growth.
There are people who would be okay if it were Sony making the acquisition, but I want to believe that most people who are against it feel that no large company should be allowed to buy another large company.
It’s like, does no one remember what Microsoft did in the 90s? They were literally forbidding PC manufacturers from not selling any systems that didn’t include windows.
This deal is bad. It rewards shitty individuals and shitty companies, and hurts consumers and employees. This deal will be a calendar marker of when the gaming industry started to fall. Like when Disney bought Marvel and LucasArts.
There’s a lot of tangible reasons for Microsoft to pull the plug on Steam game sales.
Those are reasons. I don’t know if they would actually follow through and there are reasons for them to not do it, but every decision is a case of weighing the negatives and the positives. It really depends on if Microsoft cares about the public perception of forcing people to use their own store or not. Currently, they do care about forcing people onto clients, but that might not always be the case forever.