Am I suffering some kind of confirmation bias, or does Spock spend an unusually large amount of time expressing emotions, for someone who’s supposed to never express emotions?
EDIT: By way of addressing some of the replies to this post, without replying to them all individually, I just wanted to add this:
I’m not critiquing the handling of Spock’s character in relation to TOS or movies, Peck’s a great actor and is doing a fine job at interpreting this role.
The point I’m trying to make is that Spock (and data, T’pol, Tuvok, etc. after him) gets juxtaposed so often, it seems more entertainment-oriented than story-oriented. Like, “wouldn’t it be cool if they had to…”. The classic sitcom trope of putting the awkward person in a public-facing position, with hilarious consequences. It just seems like these hilarious consequences are occurring too often to call it character development.
I think the point we are supposed to take away is that he’s very young, relatively speaking, to the Spock we know and love from the movies and TNG. He’s a work in progress on his way to becoming that person
The first episode of the season had Spock discussing with Doctor M’Benga the fact that embracing his anger to help him fight the Gorn last season in “All Those Who Wander” broke down his mental conditioning. It’s also been shown in three of four recaps at the beginning of episodes this season. I would assume they’re building towards something.
As for Spock “never” having emotions, I’d suggest rewatching some TOS. His wry enjoyment when Uhura teases him with her song in “Charlie X”, his outburst at seeing Kirk alive at the end of “Amok Time”, and just how ridiculously horny he is in “The Cloud Minders” all come to mind, never mind those instances when he’s affected by some outside force suppressing his conditioning.
So much so that I’m at the point where I’m wondering if this show is still canon.
I really like Strange New Worlds. The episodic nature with overarching storylines is the right direction for Star Trek, but really wish they had used this cast to make a show with a new crew in a new ship set post-DS9.
I disagree. I really enjoy this show and I can give the writers some creative license as a prequel for a show that’s almost sixty years old.
Spock has to have a moment of crisis that brings him to the state of character he’s in in TOS. I think there’s plenty of room to breathe over the course of the show to allow that. I haven’t watched The Cage in several years, so I don’t exactly recall, however from what I do recall, Spock shows a lot more emotion in the pilot vs. the beginning of the series with Kirk.
yea, I think this really does just fill in his arc, where he’s still learning how to be the Logical Vulcan, and he pushes farther and farther until you get to where he was in TMP, at the complete opposite, attempting to completely abandon all emotion.
Then the rest of his arc after TMP is finding the balance.
Sure, but they could do literally the exact same show but set further in the future.
When they brought Star Trek back in the 90s we got three great shows that all did their own thing while making callbacks to - but not relying on - the original series.
All of the new shows rely way too much on nostalgia and I just wish they’d move on.
It seems that fan feedback is one of the reasons SNW exists. Which is fine; fan write-in campaigns and petitions are central to Star Trek.
I do agree that a series outside TOS would be enjoyable, however that doesn’t seem to be in development right now (actually nothing is really in development right now). More than likely, I wouldn’t be surprised if Paramount pushed Star Trek: Legacy as a series after reception to the finale of Picard.
Spock has to have a moment of crisis that brings him to the state of character he’s in in TOS.
This. It’s literally what we saw happen in DIS to get him from what we see in The Cage to what we see in SNW. There is no reason it can’t happen again.
Spock in SNW brings his portrayal in The Cage in alignment with the rest of TOS. In that episode, he smiles and has a more relaxed demeanor. If you watch TOS again, Leonard Nimoy plays Spock as oblivious to human emotional expression without being robotic. I actually find Ethan Peck’s portrayal to be more rigid than Nimoy’s. The Peck Spock tends to either suppress his emotion to the degree that he can appear monotonous and stiff, or fail to suppress emotions and experience outbursts. Around 10 years later, the Spock in TOS finds a balance and seems to have found a balance between emotional expression (including sarcasm and low-key passive aggressiveness against Dr. McCoy) and logic. That’s good character development imo
Edit: Not to mention Spock’s final words in the 2009 movie where he tells his alternate self not to think too hard about logic and do what feels right. That’s Spock’s arc ends and resolves his internal conflict that lasted over decades.
I largely agree with that idea. It feels like at some point Trek will need to let go of all old characters, to ensure its long-term viability. Personally, I’d be happy to get to know a new group (crew) of characters, even if they’re not a famous character’s offspring. I guess that was the idea with Discovery, but the universe/story arcs that they created didn’t interest me too much.
I know that’s not really how shows work, people get enamored with the cast and roles, but I’d love to see a semi-regular shift in crew or ship, while the writers tackle the issues of the day allegorically.
Yep, I think so, too. I suppose it’s just reflective of the time that it’s made in; so much of film and TV (and games) is just re-boots, pre/sequels, remasters and remakes. It’s like it’s too big a risk, to try an stray too far from a perceived existing audience.
The point I dwell on for longer is the need for humour to be so prevalent in what is essentially a drama series. I keep repeating this in various threads, but I don’t like how often it’s used and how weak it is. I guess I’d rather watch something that’s Hornblower, rather than Family Guy.
He is certainly spending a lot less time expressing emotions than he did in season 2 of Discovery.
There seem to be two major camps of thought about his portrayal in SNW:
He is way too different in SNW than he is in TOS, thus breaking canon. These must be people who really enjoyed the nobody-ever-experiences-personal-growth-except-for-Seven-of-Nine aspect of VOY.
Personal growth is okay, but his current trajectory is veering off too far from where he needs to land in TOS. This is the nobody-ever-makes-the-same-mistakes-twice camp.
Here’s what we know for sure, chronologically:
Spock smiles at plants in The Cage and seems stable.
Spock is a mental and emotional wreck in DIS season 2, but he pulls it together in the end.
Spock is back in control in early SNW season 1, but he has overcorrected after the events of DIS to a place where he is much more stoic than he was in The Cage.
Spock opens back up the emotional can of worms in SNW season 1 to fight an adversary, and he is having a difficult time closing it back up. But he seems to be trying to make the best of it.
Spock is about to lose all his Vulcan DNA in this week’s upcoming episode. Hijinks will ensue with T’Pring’s family.
That last one may lead to more overcorrection in the future. Or maybe it won’t. Who knows?
Maybe he’ll undergo Kolinahr at some point before TOS. Maybe it doesn’t work twice, and that’s why he fails in TMP.
But you can’t tell me you’ve never met anyone in real life whose emotional state of being sways back and forth like a pendulum swing over time.
Am I suffering some kind of confirmation bias, or does Spock spend an unusually large amount of time expressing emotions, for someone who’s supposed to never express emotions?
EDIT: By way of addressing some of the replies to this post, without replying to them all individually, I just wanted to add this:
I’m not critiquing the handling of Spock’s character in relation to TOS or movies, Peck’s a great actor and is doing a fine job at interpreting this role.
The point I’m trying to make is that Spock (and data, T’pol, Tuvok, etc. after him) gets juxtaposed so often, it seems more entertainment-oriented than story-oriented. Like, “wouldn’t it be cool if they had to…”. The classic sitcom trope of putting the awkward person in a public-facing position, with hilarious consequences. It just seems like these hilarious consequences are occurring too often to call it character development.
I think the point we are supposed to take away is that he’s very young, relatively speaking, to the Spock we know and love from the movies and TNG. He’s a work in progress on his way to becoming that person
The first episode of the season had Spock discussing with Doctor M’Benga the fact that embracing his anger to help him fight the Gorn last season in “All Those Who Wander” broke down his mental conditioning. It’s also been shown in three of four recaps at the beginning of episodes this season. I would assume they’re building towards something.
As for Spock “never” having emotions, I’d suggest rewatching some TOS. His wry enjoyment when Uhura teases him with her song in “Charlie X”, his outburst at seeing Kirk alive at the end of “Amok Time”, and just how ridiculously horny he is in “The Cloud Minders” all come to mind, never mind those instances when he’s affected by some outside force suppressing his conditioning.
Yeah, it’s weird how they’re embracing this…foundational aspect of the character.
100%
So much so that I’m at the point where I’m wondering if this show is still canon.
I really like Strange New Worlds. The episodic nature with overarching storylines is the right direction for Star Trek, but really wish they had used this cast to make a show with a new crew in a new ship set post-DS9.
I disagree. I really enjoy this show and I can give the writers some creative license as a prequel for a show that’s almost sixty years old.
Spock has to have a moment of crisis that brings him to the state of character he’s in in TOS. I think there’s plenty of room to breathe over the course of the show to allow that. I haven’t watched The Cage in several years, so I don’t exactly recall, however from what I do recall, Spock shows a lot more emotion in the pilot vs. the beginning of the series with Kirk.
yea, I think this really does just fill in his arc, where he’s still learning how to be the Logical Vulcan, and he pushes farther and farther until you get to where he was in TMP, at the complete opposite, attempting to completely abandon all emotion.
Then the rest of his arc after TMP is finding the balance.
Sure, but they could do literally the exact same show but set further in the future.
When they brought Star Trek back in the 90s we got three great shows that all did their own thing while making callbacks to - but not relying on - the original series.
All of the new shows rely way too much on nostalgia and I just wish they’d move on.
It seems that fan feedback is one of the reasons SNW exists. Which is fine; fan write-in campaigns and petitions are central to Star Trek.
I do agree that a series outside TOS would be enjoyable, however that doesn’t seem to be in development right now (actually nothing is really in development right now). More than likely, I wouldn’t be surprised if Paramount pushed Star Trek: Legacy as a series after reception to the finale of Picard.
This. It’s literally what we saw happen in DIS to get him from what we see in The Cage to what we see in SNW. There is no reason it can’t happen again.
Spock in SNW brings his portrayal in The Cage in alignment with the rest of TOS. In that episode, he smiles and has a more relaxed demeanor. If you watch TOS again, Leonard Nimoy plays Spock as oblivious to human emotional expression without being robotic. I actually find Ethan Peck’s portrayal to be more rigid than Nimoy’s. The Peck Spock tends to either suppress his emotion to the degree that he can appear monotonous and stiff, or fail to suppress emotions and experience outbursts. Around 10 years later, the Spock in TOS finds a balance and seems to have found a balance between emotional expression (including sarcasm and low-key passive aggressiveness against Dr. McCoy) and logic. That’s good character development imo
Edit: Not to mention Spock’s final words in the 2009 movie where he tells his alternate self not to think too hard about logic and do what feels right. That’s Spock’s arc ends and resolves his internal conflict that lasted over decades.
I largely agree with that idea. It feels like at some point Trek will need to let go of all old characters, to ensure its long-term viability. Personally, I’d be happy to get to know a new group (crew) of characters, even if they’re not a famous character’s offspring. I guess that was the idea with Discovery, but the universe/story arcs that they created didn’t interest me too much.
I know that’s not really how shows work, people get enamored with the cast and roles, but I’d love to see a semi-regular shift in crew or ship, while the writers tackle the issues of the day allegorically.
You know, I really tried to like Discovery, but then they tried to be a prequel and a sequel and I just couldn’t do it.
Another Spock sibling we never heard of? 🙄
Strange New Worlds is great, I’d just really like them to stop relying on the nostalgia.
Yep, I think so, too. I suppose it’s just reflective of the time that it’s made in; so much of film and TV (and games) is just re-boots, pre/sequels, remasters and remakes. It’s like it’s too big a risk, to try an stray too far from a perceived existing audience.
The point I dwell on for longer is the need for humour to be so prevalent in what is essentially a drama series. I keep repeating this in various threads, but I don’t like how often it’s used and how weak it is. I guess I’d rather watch something that’s Hornblower, rather than Family Guy.
Go back and rewatch TOS. Spock is emotional.
He is certainly spending a lot less time expressing emotions than he did in season 2 of Discovery.
There seem to be two major camps of thought about his portrayal in SNW:
He is way too different in SNW than he is in TOS, thus breaking canon. These must be people who really enjoyed the nobody-ever-experiences-personal-growth-except-for-Seven-of-Nine aspect of VOY.
Personal growth is okay, but his current trajectory is veering off too far from where he needs to land in TOS. This is the nobody-ever-makes-the-same-mistakes-twice camp.
Here’s what we know for sure, chronologically:
That last one may lead to more overcorrection in the future. Or maybe it won’t. Who knows?
Maybe he’ll undergo Kolinahr at some point before TOS. Maybe it doesn’t work twice, and that’s why he fails in TMP.
But you can’t tell me you’ve never met anyone in real life whose emotional state of being sways back and forth like a pendulum swing over time.