If the descentralization of social networks continue, we will have to prepare for the eventual rise of the instances wars, where people will start to fight about which instance is better and which one is weird to be in and so on, but that’s for the future of us all.

  • scarabic@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    33
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    It’s not harder than what we’ve had to do with e-mail spam. Which has been enormously successful, with 99% of it not even getting delivered to your spam folder but just dropped entirely.

    Instances will het as much visibility as they’ve earned through successful engagement across instances. The visibility of a new instance’s posts will increase over time.

    This is why yes, there needs to be a feed algorithm. “Just show it to me chronologically” is the most naive thought, and people still have it all the time. There are just so many fundamental things that need to go into a sorting algo. We’re not even talking about personalization.

    • Kaldo@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      12
      ·
      1 year ago

      E-mail spam filter is funded by google and other multibillion megacorporations though, and they just outright block or rate limit unknown providers. I’d say it’s not gonna be as easy to do it with fediverse.

      This is why yes, there needs to be a feed algorithm. “Just show it to me chronologically” is the most naive thought

      Agreed 100% but again, I wonder if we have enough resources to actually make it good while also keeping it free, both in terms of monetization and in terms of outside influence and biases. Twitter and others spend a lot of manhours on it and mastodon still doesn’t have it either for example, it’s not even being worked on afaik (or nobody talks about it).

      • scarabic@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        The trick is to find out how to leverage the community for quality signals, and just support that with good foundations.

        Spam filtering is done by corporations but they’re not all mega tech companies like Google. A lot of it is done at the network level, too.

        DNS has also always been the prime example of a federated service that works so well we can rely on it as a public utility. Why hasn’t it been taken over by bad actors rapidly recycling their identities? It’s not because big tech has thousands of human agents monitoring it at great expense.

        • intensely_human@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          how to leverage the community for quality signals

          I say we give each person one up or down vote on each piece of content. Then, people should be able to sort by the sum of those up or down votes (with up being worth +1 and down being worth -1).

          I’m not sure, but I suspect a system like that might have content moderation built into its structure.

          • scarabic@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            If posts and comments can be botted and gamed, so can votes. There’s probably some value to be had with votes as a signal, but I was thinking more of the moderator layer.

            • intensely_human@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              Moderation itself can be gamed. A moderator who’s a bad actor can cause a lot of damage easily by “gaming” the moderation system.

              • scarabic@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                1 year ago

                We can keep playing this until some bad actor is pretending to be me typing this right now.

                But this is why moderators work in teams, and why there is an admin as well. A solo mod who’s a bad actor is not going to develop a very appealing community, and whole scam shitpile instances can always be defederated.

                • intensely_human@lemm.ee
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Mutliple moderators are because more centralization means easier corruption. If you extrapolate the diffusion of power to its extreme, you arrive at crowdsourced moderation.

                  It’s true that crowdsourced moderation can be gamed, but it takes some effort and that level of effort only goes down by adding accounts with moderating powers.

                  A moderation team is easier to corrupt than a totally decentralized voting system. That’s like the entire argument for why we like democracy: it’s harder to corrupt a populace at large than it is to corrupt a cabal in authority. It’s possible, but it takes more effort making it as good as you can get in terms of incorruptibility.

                  • scarabic@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    You may also be interested in this wiki page about direct democracy. Notably, the framers of the US Constitution were very concerned about the tyranny of the majority. All the institutions and checks and balances in the system are there precisely because you can’t always trust large groups of people. Direct democracy is highly problematic, at least as much so as a system with intermediaries.

                    Direct democracy was not what the framers of the United States Constitution envisioned for the nation. They saw a danger in tyranny of the majority. As a result, they advocated a representative democracy in the form of a constitutional republic over a direct democracy. For example, James Madison, in Federalist No. 10, advocates a constitutional republic over direct democracy precisely to protect the individual from the will of the majority.

                  • scarabic@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    0
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    Democracy is not someone’s idea for how to prevent corruption. History shows that an unrepresented populace is unproductive, restive, even rebellious. And an unrepresented aristocracy is prone to coups. Democracy is a way to minimize those.

                    Moderators can be corrupted more easily because there are fewer of them? There are fewer but they’re more vetted and they’re never given power without someone being able to take it away.

                    And we’ve seen how easy it is to corrupt large populations recently. Harder to corrupt the masses? No.

                    Do you have any experience with managing a UGC community or is this just theoretical thought? It doesn’t seem grounded in actual experience to me, and I do have that experience.