The Democratic Socialists of America pulled its endorsement of Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York this week, accusing the progressive congresswoman of being insufficiently supportive of the Palestinian cause and efforts to end the war in Gaza…

Her approach has increasingly strained her relationship with some of the left’s most strident critics of Israel. When she rallied last month in the Bronx with Senator Bernie Sanders and Representative Jamaal Bowman, dozens of pro-Palestinian demonstrators angry over her endorsement of Mr. Biden chanted “You’re a fraud, A.O.C.”

  • comfy@lemmy.ml
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    4 months ago

    what was that ideology again? Oh that’s right, it’s Marxist socialism

    Marxist socialism isn’t idealist. In fact, it’s one of the few ideologies which isn’t idealist. It’s based on an scientific economic analysis of capitalism. Contrast this against our current system, liberalism, which is the failed idealization of liberty. Liberalism neglectfully kills hundreds of millions even in developed and politically-stable countries, but it’s just normal at this point.

    You’re not morally superior to fascists

    Morality is idealism.

    If Marxist socialists had a similar movement in size and influence to Trump and MAGA and were in a position to win, the sane majority would be just as terrified

    Oh no, they’re going to improve life expectancy and stop billionaires wasting all our hard work! The terror!

    If anything, you, SleezyDizasta, should want Marxists to be in a position which threatens the ruling parties, because them being threatened is the only way you will ever get any of that big list of reforms you posted, bargaining to try and deradicalize the masses away from unrest. We saw this happen in Western bloc countries near the USSR such as the Nordic countries, considered the most progressive but gradually sinking back in line with the rest of Europe now.

    dissolution is genocide

    Dissolution doesn’t even suggest killing, at all. I don’t think you know what words mean.

    This is the type of [whole paragraph]

    I was referring to Palestine. Perhaps I should have specifically said ‘the region of Palestine’ but I didn’t want to be condescending by stating the obvious.

    How dumb do you have to be to think that Americans in America would cheer on for idiots that think their country is evil, illegitimate, and should be destroyed?

    How dumb do you have to be to think that most Americans like their governments?

    [skipped over a lot of obvious bad-faith bullshit lol]

    • J Lou@mastodon.social
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      4 months ago

      Marxism:

      A scientific analysis that gets basic facts about the structure of property rights in the capitalist system wrong, and uses value theory to critique a property system

      Moral arguments can help make people class conscious and recognize their oppression. Morality can motivate people to act, gives them a coherent structure for guiding action, and give direction. Morality is an important tool that enables people to coordinate without authority
      @politics

      • comfy@lemmy.ml
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        4 months ago

        For my own learning (not trying to argue), can you list some of those basic facts of property rights?

        morality

        Agreed. I wasn’t saying morality is pointless or worthless or anything. Even myself, I often ‘do the right thing’ on impulse rather than reason. I’m pointing out that morality is an idealistic structure, referencing the ironic appeal to morality from someone who was trying to critique Marxism for being an “idealist ideology”. Morality is so subjective and unquantifiable it wasn’t even worth arguing against their silly comparison.

        It is a powerful tool, although I must admit I have serious issues with the most common frameworks of morality I see today, being framed as absolute rules a vacuum. And like you said, moral arguments can have excellent rhetorical power, and moral righteousness is a powerful motivator. The bottom line is, what anti-capitalists try to do fits into most moral frameworks as clearly good, and that’s great!

        • J Lou@mastodon.social
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          4 months ago

          Marx incorrectly cites private property as capitalist appropriation’s basis. The employment contract is what enables the employer to appropriate the entire positive and negative result of production. Now, capital ownership does play a role in increasing bargain power to get favorable terms during contract negotiations. By emphasizing value, he missed out on a critique based on property rights. In property terms, the employer gets 100%

          Morality can be analyzed in less idealist ways @politics