Windows 10 EoL is fast approaching, so I thought I’d give Linux a try on some equipment that won’t be able to upgrade to Windows 11. I wanted to see if I will be able to recommend an option to anyone that asks me what they should do with their old PC.
Many years ago I switched to Gentoo Linux to get through collage. I was very anti-MS at the time. I also currently interact with Linux systems regularly although they don’t have a DE and aren’t for general workstation use.
Ubuntu: easy install. Working desktop. Had issues with getting GPU drivers. App Store had apps that would install but not work. The App Store itself kept failing to update itself with an error that it was still running. It couldn’t clear this hurdle after a reboot so I finally killed the process and manually updated from terminal. Overall, can’t recommend this to a normal user.
Mint: easy install. Switching to nvidia drivers worked without issue. App Store had issues with installing some apps due to missing dependencies that it couldn’t install. Some popular apps would install but wouldn’t run. Shutting the laptop closed results in a prompt to shutdown, but never really shuts off. Update process asks me to pick a fast source (why can’t it do this itself?)
Both: installing apps outside of their respective stores is an adventure in terminal instead of a GUI double-click. Secure boot issues. Constant prompt for password instead of a simple PIN or other form of identity verification.
Search results for basic operations require understanding that what works for Ubuntu might not work for Mint.
While I personally could work with either, I don’t see Linux taking any market share from MS or Apple when windows 10 is retired.
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It’s so wild that I have seen like, four Linux people in my lifetime admit the simple truth that every version of Windows and macOS, iOS and Android since conception have been geared progressively more toward being absolutely friendly to users that are dumb as rocks—in a good way—where Linux has absolutely not. And that this barrier is 100% of the difference between proprietary desktop environments and Linux. Linux is majority developed for power users, full stop. The closest I have seen to the contrary is like, maybe the Adwaita devs, and unfortunately they don’t have the reach to apply their knowledge to essential UX stuff like app installation or hardware compatibility.
This is why I get so frustrated with the “just switch to Linux, loser” crowd, because it’s so utterly disconnected with the reality that most people do not have the resources to invest in any kind of learning curve. It has to be intuitive and accessible from the start. Web developers understand this. MS, Apple, and Google get it. Like, even people who design public transportation understand that they must cater to a user who is drunk and not fluent in the local language when designing signage and systems. Why doesn’t the vast majority of the Linux community get it?
Because a lot of them are the kind of computer geek who makes “normies” hate computer geeks. You know the type: condescending, arrogant, passive aggressive, a mild bully. The kind that enjoys making other people who don’t share their hobby feel stupid. I think they should be forced to work in an auto shop, or a house framing crew, or a plumber crew, and see what it feels like to be made to feel stupid on a skill you have no experience in. I worked IT, and these guys are repulsive, especially while they’re mocking and belittling the elderly, or the mentally disabled.
the *nix community has a toxicity problem, absolutely. it’s tradition at this point, a culture stemming back to rtfm. i highly applaud those voices in the FOSS movement that break this stereotype and embrace the user without question.
Linux is majority developed for power users, full stop.
I feel this needs to be a sticky at the top of every page on all of Lemmy. This NEEDS to be heard.
With AI being what it is, I’m not going to go past Windows 7.
I’m not going to spend big money on apple devices.
But I can’t figure out Linux. I want to use linux. But I have no ability to.
Linux is stuck in the I had to do X so you have to do it too mindset. They are generally opposed to user friendly options if it means removing pain they feel is core to the experience.
Nice rant. Doesn’t reflect anything I experienced. From all linux users I know just one is a nerd. And he doesn’t develop or interact with any community.
Stop ranting about your desired workflow and start implementing it if in desperate need.
I agree in regards to a through thought ux though!
Downvotes but non formulated opinion. Elaborate please. I strongly believe I am defending the correct intention.
downvotes because your comment was insulting, rude and bossy. it is very possible to defend the correct intention without being unkind and counterproductive.
You are implying quite a few things here.
And apparently under the assumption that you represent the majority/common sense - again.
mean comment - again, blocked lol
Is it still an unpopular opinion if I just hate that I agree with you?
(Writing this from my linux gaming desktop. I don’t use arch btw)
Yes we can be unpopular together.
I’m someone who grew up on Windows but switched to Linux and holy shit was it so much nicer. I don’t know if Windows massively improved or if people are just incapable of comparing something new with something they already know. Because Windows is hard.
99/100 basic users need someone to unfuck their windows install after what, one, two years?
Every time you need to do something non standard you’re basically going from training wheels to “good luck, deputy sysadmin.”
Broken registry. Orphaned cruft.
Malware, spyware.
Philosophy time: Is it unpopular opinion if 90% of PC users agree with you?
On the other hand, this is an unpopular opinion on Lemmy
Which is why I posted it. I was honestly hoping to be proven wrong, but instead I got a lot of victim blaming. Even Linux users aren’t ready to accept mainstream people coming from Windows.
Victim blaming? Who’s the victim?
A bunch of people telling me I did it wrong, or used the wrong distro, or that 90% of normal windows users will know how to troubleshoot software that isn’t installing right by going into terminal.
The victim is either the typical normal user or me depending on these types of responses.
There’s some merit to offering other distros to try for you, the individual. We’re all nerds, it’s a problem we want to help solve. (Bazzite is my recommendation if you’re up for another shot lol.)
But in terms of “is Linux ready for the average user,” I think Mint is considered pretty widely to be a “just works” sort of distro. It’s certainly fair to use that experience as an example.
No distro “just works” until the whole platform can easily install software by double clicking. You need to be able to uninstall terminal 100% and still have a functioning OS.
The kind of OS a drunk lizard man could sit on a mouse and still operate the OS with his butthole.
THEN it just works.
Overall, can’t recommend this to a normal user.
How do you know you are not an abnormal user?
Because I’ve been working with the Normal Users for 20 years.
I think you’re massively overestimating what normal users are willing to do. Normal users aren’t going to install Linux because normal users don’t install operating systems. Other things normal users don’t do:
- Install drivers
- Configure hardware (including printers)
- Run system recovery
- Run OS upgrades (unless forced on them)
When the upgrade from windows 7 to 10 resulted in broken systems/applications, some normal users paid someone to fix it, but most bought a new computer.
In short, Linux is ready to replace Windows, but only in the cases where it’s sold preinstalled on supported hardware. Android, ChromeOS and Steamdecks are good examples of this.
You’ve hit on a good point, which is that the steam deck is an abnormal success in this space.
But you’ve also missed a point. The install of the OS wasn’t being evaluated. Daily use was.
The daily use thing isn’t going to be an issue because things like drivers and dependencies would be sorted out for end users on a machine thst is being manufactured and sold
Personally, I think we reached the point where most users would be fine. Once they switch, then the more professional applications will come.
I wish Tumbleweed would be used more. It’s easy to install (but the installer is being rewritten anyways). Also, I have updated it on a laptop that was 2 years behind (because of lack of use). It updated perfectly and even proprietary software like Zoom just worked.
2023 was the year of the Linux Desktop. Wayland + pipewire gives us a base to have modern features but it took a long time to reach this point.
Dude most users don’t even know what a web browser is let alone package managers or driver maintenance.
Yes, but same applies on windows. Window still needs to be maintained as well.
All you’ve got to do is shut it down and it’ll ask if you want to update.
Under KDE, discover will send a system notification for updates.
Pretty sure other DEs do the same. But I can’t confirm since I only bother with KDE.
Who doesn’t trust that people can learn new skills? This guy.
You assume people can. Simply moving between browsers is a problem for most people. you overestimate how technical competent most people are.
That sounds more like their issue if they struggle to switch software.
Let’s be honest, most of the time it’s a lack of willingness to learn how to use something or just ignorance. As opposed to anything else.
It’s not difficult to learn, most people just refuse to do so.
I think there is no general answer to “Is Linux mainstream ready to replace Windows?” because the use case is so important to consider.
If you just need a PC to browse the web and consume media then Linux is absolutely fine. This should more or less apply to a large group of users that don’t do anything else with their devices.
Are you a gamer? Then I’d say more or less perfectly fine but it really depends on the games you want to play. Everything with the new, invasive anti-cheat tools doesn’t work (e. g. League of Legends) but smaller, single player, or many multi player games do work at the moment.
Are you a professional or are using otherwise specific software? This is the biggest hurdle I see at the moment. CAD programs for engineering are a big problem for example.
And last but not least: Are you using periphery that needs specific drivers? Printers, audio interfaces, and whatnot. Then you might be out of luck as well if you can’t script.
The last two points are the only ones that would worry me when I won’t have at least one windows machine lying around.
I think there is no general answer to “Is Linux mainstream ready to replace Windows?”
Incorrect. The answer is “No.”
don’t worry about it. with the enshittification of win 11, that gap will close faster than copilot will record your activities.
Those upcoming changes are why I’ve been playing with the idea of a complete switch to Linux. While I use Linux regularly (but certainly not exclusively) and feel comfortable making the transition to it from Windows, my wife and kids would struggle with some aspects of Linux. And committing all of us to that OS transition would mean a commitment for me of troubleshooting, assisting, and educating the family.
Thanks OP for this post. I know you’re getting some shit for it, but I and others appreciate your honest findings.
I don’t think OP’s analysis should be taken as offensive or disingenuous by others here. And I don’t understand why they are getting shit. I’ve been using Linux off and on for 20 years. It’s come an insanely long way in that timeframe with its usability for less technical users. But yes, there are still some gaps to fill. And the way to fix them is to listen to honest feedback like OP’s.
If OP is unwilling to learn basic features of the OS, of course they face criticism. This post is not a good contribution, it is once more a superficial review by someone who has jumped on the hating GNU/Linux bandwagon because they somehow personally identify with M$. But the Apple crowd is worse.
