At least 323 Egyptian and 60 Jordanian pilgrims died during the Hajj pilgrimage in western Saudi Arabia, most of them succumbing to heat-related illnesses, diplomats told AFP on Tuesday.
Everyone considers stealing wrong. Everyone condemns big fat pigs robbing millions from the financial system wrong. If I had to place a bet, most people would of they had the chance. The fact people are hypocritical doesn’t mean it is not condemnable. DiCaprio is a piece of shit in a lot of people’s mind, just not in the judicial system.
No shit that a lot of middle-aged or maybe elderly man would enjoy 16 year old teasing them. Not so much for woman but if I had to bet it would happen as well. Our sex drive plays a lot here. Back in the we’re animals in nature thingy, putting dicks into young women was almost always a “good thing”; propagating genes and stuff. Just so happens that we’re trying not to behave like wild beasts anymore.
The brain would ideally be fully matured before one is to take life-long decisions, however 25 years is an awful lot of time. My armchair sociologist says that people would not tolerate that for the same reason people do not tolerate expecting for their kids to be 25 before allowing them to cross the road by themselves. Maturity is not a linear thing. At the age of 5 you’ll try to kill yourself every now and then. At the age of 10 you barely do that. 18 is an arbitrary line, yes, because it is believed that most people at that age are able to figure life long decisions well-enough. People still get some sparks of development after 18, but it is nowhere compared to the 5-10 or the 10-15.
You state that age differences at the time were far more common. Well, at the time most marriages were arranged and considered plenty of things above the wellbeing of the brides.
In any case, we’re working around my key argument. We’re all silly animals, but god and it’s prophets are supposed to be perfect. You can point a finger at them for that. Yes, fuck Francis. That guy is a piece of shit as well and points fairly well at the bullshit that Christianity is. This is not a anti-muslim rant; it is a “can we condemn condemnable people that were supposed to know what they were doing as they were ‘perfect’?”
You are correct in your assessment of perfection. But the question is what is perfect morality. And mostly one of where to draw the line. The equation with stealing and murder is questionable as that has been a moral wrong through all of humanity. Whereas this debate is mostly one of the last 100 years. In the past this objective morality had never existed thus I question whether it is as objective as you make it seem. When you go a few generations back you’ll usually find your great-great grandfather was a 25 year old dude that married as 13-15 year old.
Flipping to the modern age I knew a 19 year old guy that was ashamed of dating a 17 year old because he felt other people thought there was too big of an age gap. A mere two year difference. The “objective morality” on this subject really appears to be “whatever everyone else thinks about it”. Even funnier is that a 60 year old dating a 30 year old is suddenly becoming predatory too. The last 10-20 years people are starting to condemn two “mature adults” with a large age gap for having a relationship. DiCaprio is a perfect example of this. He violates no laws nor “morals” but somehow is wrong.
The brain would ideally be fully matured before one is to take life-long decisions, however 25 years is an awful lot of time.
If were morally consistent we would acknowledge that if the brain is “fully matured” at 25 that the age of consent would be 25…But as that is currently not the societal norm we see no reason to accept this. If society had already changed into this logic I am quite sure you would adhere to it as well. Especially seeing that there would now be a “scientific reasoning” behind it. And it would be even more difficult to convince you because now I would have to argue with science. Yet we stick to this very arbitrary number of 18. Even you are saying 18 is okay and 16 is weird. I cannot comprehend this. Make it 25.
Just so happens that we’re trying not to behave like wild beasts anymore.
The question of consent is a very emphasized one that was introduced back then. Before the prophet consent was an arbitrary cause. Women were regarded as property at that time. Suddenly men had to actually appeal to a woman to marry her. Even in modern day if a woman does not wish to get married at a young age there is absolutely no reason for her to do so. The legal permissible age refers to the age at which a woman gets control to decide. It does not force her to get married. It only presents her with the right to do so.
We still condone sexual intercourse between teenagers and accept that when they reach puberty some have a desire to become sexually active. We have not mitigated this in fact we promote safe sex in schools and say experimenting is totally fine. We have only restricted it to other “children”. We made the age gap a defining factor in what we deem okay, and don’t say that “children” are being “raped” by other “children”. Once again, I can’t find moral consistency in this. If the brain’s finished age is 25 why do we condone a 17 and 15 year old, but not a 19 and 17 year old? And now even between “adults” this age gap is coming into play.
There appears to be no coherent argument. Everything that is deemed okay is based on current traditions and the “science” is ignored.
Everyone considers stealing wrong. Everyone condemns big fat pigs robbing millions from the financial system wrong. If I had to place a bet, most people would of they had the chance. The fact people are hypocritical doesn’t mean it is not condemnable. DiCaprio is a piece of shit in a lot of people’s mind, just not in the judicial system.
No shit that a lot of middle-aged or maybe elderly man would enjoy 16 year old teasing them. Not so much for woman but if I had to bet it would happen as well. Our sex drive plays a lot here. Back in the we’re animals in nature thingy, putting dicks into young women was almost always a “good thing”; propagating genes and stuff. Just so happens that we’re trying not to behave like wild beasts anymore.
The brain would ideally be fully matured before one is to take life-long decisions, however 25 years is an awful lot of time. My armchair sociologist says that people would not tolerate that for the same reason people do not tolerate expecting for their kids to be 25 before allowing them to cross the road by themselves. Maturity is not a linear thing. At the age of 5 you’ll try to kill yourself every now and then. At the age of 10 you barely do that. 18 is an arbitrary line, yes, because it is believed that most people at that age are able to figure life long decisions well-enough. People still get some sparks of development after 18, but it is nowhere compared to the 5-10 or the 10-15.
You state that age differences at the time were far more common. Well, at the time most marriages were arranged and considered plenty of things above the wellbeing of the brides.
In any case, we’re working around my key argument. We’re all silly animals, but god and it’s prophets are supposed to be perfect. You can point a finger at them for that. Yes, fuck Francis. That guy is a piece of shit as well and points fairly well at the bullshit that Christianity is. This is not a anti-muslim rant; it is a “can we condemn condemnable people that were supposed to know what they were doing as they were ‘perfect’?”
You are correct in your assessment of perfection. But the question is what is perfect morality. And mostly one of where to draw the line. The equation with stealing and murder is questionable as that has been a moral wrong through all of humanity. Whereas this debate is mostly one of the last 100 years. In the past this objective morality had never existed thus I question whether it is as objective as you make it seem. When you go a few generations back you’ll usually find your great-great grandfather was a 25 year old dude that married as 13-15 year old.
Flipping to the modern age I knew a 19 year old guy that was ashamed of dating a 17 year old because he felt other people thought there was too big of an age gap. A mere two year difference. The “objective morality” on this subject really appears to be “whatever everyone else thinks about it”. Even funnier is that a 60 year old dating a 30 year old is suddenly becoming predatory too. The last 10-20 years people are starting to condemn two “mature adults” with a large age gap for having a relationship. DiCaprio is a perfect example of this. He violates no laws nor “morals” but somehow is wrong.
If were morally consistent we would acknowledge that if the brain is “fully matured” at 25 that the age of consent would be 25…But as that is currently not the societal norm we see no reason to accept this. If society had already changed into this logic I am quite sure you would adhere to it as well. Especially seeing that there would now be a “scientific reasoning” behind it. And it would be even more difficult to convince you because now I would have to argue with science. Yet we stick to this very arbitrary number of 18. Even you are saying 18 is okay and 16 is weird. I cannot comprehend this. Make it 25.
The question of consent is a very emphasized one that was introduced back then. Before the prophet consent was an arbitrary cause. Women were regarded as property at that time. Suddenly men had to actually appeal to a woman to marry her. Even in modern day if a woman does not wish to get married at a young age there is absolutely no reason for her to do so. The legal permissible age refers to the age at which a woman gets control to decide. It does not force her to get married. It only presents her with the right to do so.
We still condone sexual intercourse between teenagers and accept that when they reach puberty some have a desire to become sexually active. We have not mitigated this in fact we promote safe sex in schools and say experimenting is totally fine. We have only restricted it to other “children”. We made the age gap a defining factor in what we deem okay, and don’t say that “children” are being “raped” by other “children”. Once again, I can’t find moral consistency in this. If the brain’s finished age is 25 why do we condone a 17 and 15 year old, but not a 19 and 17 year old? And now even between “adults” this age gap is coming into play.
There appears to be no coherent argument. Everything that is deemed okay is based on current traditions and the “science” is ignored.