I don’t know what was wrong with Joe Biden. It’s hard to imagine that they ever would have asked for a debate if this was the way he is normally. We’ve seen him recently holding press conferences and giving speeches and he seemed to be fine. They said he had a cold so maybe he really was on drugs — Nyquil or Mucinex or something that made him seem so shaky and frail. Whatever it was, it was a terrible debate for him and if he does stay in the race (which is almost certain in my opinion) the campaign is going to have a lot of work to do to dig out of the hole that was dug last night. The media smells blood and they are circling like a bunch of starved piranhas.
. . . For some odd reason, moderator Jake Tapper told Trump in the beginning that he didn’t need to answer the questions and that he could use the time however he wanted. Trump ran with that, essentially giving a rally speech whenever he had the floor and was unresponsive to the vast majority of the questions. He made faces and insulted Biden to his face, at one point calling him a criminal and a Manchurian candidate. If anyone had said 10 years ago that this would happen at a presidential debate they would have been laughed out of the room.
After the debate when most of the country had turned off cable news or gone to bed, CNN aired its fact check. And it’s a doozy:
It sure would have been good if even some of that epic litany of lies could have been checked while people were still watching. The decision to have the moderators sit like a couple of potted plants woodenly asking questions about child care while Trump responded with irrelevant lies was inexplicable. Why did they even bother to ask questions at all? They could have just run the timer and let the candidates talk for two minutes each about anything they wanted. It probably would have been more enlightening.
Agreed. The coordinated pullout to sabotage Bernie in 2020 was shameful. “Vote for us or you’ll be sorry when the GOP takes over” is all they offer.
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If they won’t change and they’ll just blame you when they loose why are you voting for them?
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Do you think it’s worth it to help the democrats win rather than build an alternative and show them where to shift their platform towards?
Build an alternative in… checks calendar, 4 months that can gain more votes than the active democratic nominee and beat the stir mad republican candidate whose supporters are voting for out of pure spite. This comment is either in bad faith or you literally have no idea how the election works. Best case here isn’t even winning, it’s taking as few votes from the sane candidates as possible because all this’ll do is split the democrat voting block.
You already gave up. Don’t try to blame it on the time left being only 4 months. If you’re willing to for for a genocide enabler you’re already commenting in bad faith.
You’re talking like there’s even a independent candidate that has the experience and willingness to do this. Normally it takes a life time of experience to even apply for the position. Trump being a complete nobody throwing money to get elected was a bad thing and now you expect some random guy on the Internet to find and sell an alternative to the American people 4 months before an election and beat both 2 people that’ve already begrudgingly won the election and can at least claim to have some experience. It isn’t giving up to admit somethings impossible. I ain’t giving up on becoming an astronaut if I can’t do it by next week. If you’d like a 3rd party candidate feel free to find and prop someone up but best case they aren’t going to be ready for a presidential run until 2028.
I see you have the 4 months so we have no choice talking point locked in. The Democrats got you with that one. Stay reactionary. 👍
At what point does a person recognize and admit that Biden or trump, we lose?
If someone is only going to do the least they possibly can, vote in the election, when should they stop trying to pick the least harmful winner and instead start working towards an alternative?
If all a person will do is vote then is t it most important to record their policy preferences in the only way that can’t be glossed over, lied about or deepfaked?
These are not equivalent losses. I think that’s what you’re not getting. Biden wins we get a senile leader with near dementia in charge for 4 years. Trump wins we get a Russian puppet who would literally kick start an insurrection over admitting his own losses. These are not the same thing, although both objectively suck.
Okay so if you really believe that trump is a foreign asset who will attempt a coup then why are you worried who people vote for?
You ought to be pushing people to prepare to defend themselves and the country from January 6 part 2, not vote in an election whose results won’t matter (because the foreign asset led coup attempt will have to be defeated).
That’s not feasible in a FPTP system. Best you can do is keep voting for the least bad between the two “real” candidates and shift the Overton window overtime.
Or have a violent revolution, but that’s a bit more difficult to coordinate.
It’s literally what every third party campaign in our lifetimes has done.
Perot 92 pushed both parties to actually address nafta instead of sweeping it under the rug, Nader 2000 forced the democrats to run left in 04 and 08.
I saw these things happen with my own eyes and if anecdote isn’t enough for you they’re both well studied!
I’ll admit I’m not that well-informed on those elections, but would’ve they really been capable of being more than a spoiler candidate, had they not been “listened to”?
Looking at the data, every election in the past 200 years has been won with more than 50% of the electoral college. Latest one where a state has been won by a third party is ‘68. If those phenomena have been studied I’m interested, because it really doesn’t seem like they did anything looking at the results at a surface level.
Perot 92 was not a spoiler campaign.
After the dust settled, everyone accused it of acting as a spoiler. In the next two decades several groups studied the results and found that Perot only reduced Clinton’s margin of victory.
Perot 92 was listened to. Every candidate from it’s inception to the adoption of the usmcta had to answer “what are you gonna do about nafta?”
People like to call Nader 2000 a spoiler, but that’s just a distraction from the fact that jeb bush stopped the recount and the supreme court declared bush the winner.
Nader was listened to. The democrats ran left in 04 and 08, at least in word.