I’ve only point out what the IDF had said was their plan. Some Orthodox zionist have been calling for all the territory of West bank and Gaza to be theirs, but they are a tiny minority.
Did you see the article? Something like half of the Prime Minister’s cabinet was at a rally celebrating that they’re doing this.
Here’s the thing: I can recognize that where people stand on this sort of thing is very hard to accurately gauge in the moment. It’s as likely that I’m overestimating the support for this plan as it is that you’re underestimating it
With that said, I have a strong motivation to rationalize that these people do not represent the center of public opinion. I really want that to be true. But as someone who has followed Israeli news and politics from before October 7th, and has been following it even more closely since, from the most on-the-ground sources I can find, I heard a phrase from a Lebanese Palestinian podcaster that has struck with me for months. He said,
“What we are witnessing is the Smotrich-ization of the Israeli public.”
That’s in reference to Israeli Finance minister and self-described fascist Bezalel Smotrich. I think it’s true. To my horror, the Israeli center and even left are far more amenable to the full ethnic cleansing of Israel-Palestine than any time in my lifetime. I could be wrong. But I think you should ask yourself what you think you should be doing if I’m not.
I heard a reporter sometime ago about speaking to an Israeli that lived in one of the raided kibbutzes. He was part of the peace movement and he and some other guys in the kibbutz were taking turns bringing kids from Gaza to Israeli hospitals. And now he didn’t know how he had to feel anymore: several of his neighbors killed with their families, some kidnapped, …
Ongoing violence (from both sides) can only result in the ‘normies’ radicalising.
It’s as likely that I’m overestimating the support for this plan as it is that you’re underestimating it
Indeed. It’s hard to make a clear assumption on how Israel’s geopolitical agenda plays out, and your assumption maybe more correct than mine.
To my horror, the Israeli center and even left are far more amenable to the full ethnic cleansing of Israel-Palestine than any time in my lifetime.
The origin of the Palestinian - Israel conflict is of statehood and governmental control, not ethnicities. Arabs who have never called themselves Palestinians but have lived in the state of Israel since it’s founding have as much claim to the region as Palestinians themselves and are of the same ethnicity. In other words even if Israel remove all Palestinians from the regions they want, it will never be considered ethnic cleansing by the rest of the world, because Palestinians isn’t an ethnical identity, it’s a political identity.
I think the last part of what you said – about them not being an ethnicity – is unhelpful.
I don’t agree with the take, but I don’t want to get into a debate over semantics. I just want to try and get people thinking – from many different perspectives – about what is happening and what each of us need to do to stop it.
Millions of people are at risk of dying of deliberate starvation. Millions are being pushed off their land. The region is being destabilized, Jews and Muslims worldwide are facing increasing antisemitism due to a complex set of reasons, Israelis are facing a rapid erosion in civil liberties… and we need to say NO. We need to interrupt all of these.
We need to demand peace, we need to force from power leaders who pursue agendas designed to escalate conflicts because its in their interests, we need to halt the logistics operations that allow for people to be caged and starved and blown up and tortured…
I think you and I may disagree about a whole bunch of terms to apply, but I just want to find the common ground. Particularly among liberal zionists, because it’s breaking my heart to see so many liberal zionists freezing up at a moment of crisis and allowing the religious zionist movement to take charge. It doesn’t have to be that way, we all just need to find courage and act.
I’m not looking to cast blame or pick fights. As long as you and anyone else isn’t actively supporting population transfers or a single Jewish state displacing Palestinians from river to sea, I just want to find where we agree – stop the war, stop the march of global fascism in Israel, America, and every where else – and get to work.
I think you’re either misinformed or spreading disinformation:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/12-ministers-call-to-resettle-gaza-encourage-gazans-to-leave-at-jubilant-conference/
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/religious-zionist-party-mp-urges-government-to-occupy-gaza-annex-to-israel-demolish-all-homes/3099741
I’ve only point out what the IDF had said was their plan. Some Orthodox zionist have been calling for all the territory of West bank and Gaza to be theirs, but they are a tiny minority.
Did you see the article? Something like half of the Prime Minister’s cabinet was at a rally celebrating that they’re doing this.
Here’s the thing: I can recognize that where people stand on this sort of thing is very hard to accurately gauge in the moment. It’s as likely that I’m overestimating the support for this plan as it is that you’re underestimating it
With that said, I have a strong motivation to rationalize that these people do not represent the center of public opinion. I really want that to be true. But as someone who has followed Israeli news and politics from before October 7th, and has been following it even more closely since, from the most on-the-ground sources I can find, I heard a phrase from a Lebanese Palestinian podcaster that has struck with me for months. He said,
That’s in reference to Israeli Finance minister and self-described fascist Bezalel Smotrich. I think it’s true. To my horror, the Israeli center and even left are far more amenable to the full ethnic cleansing of Israel-Palestine than any time in my lifetime. I could be wrong. But I think you should ask yourself what you think you should be doing if I’m not.
Then: do that.
I heard a reporter sometime ago about speaking to an Israeli that lived in one of the raided kibbutzes. He was part of the peace movement and he and some other guys in the kibbutz were taking turns bringing kids from Gaza to Israeli hospitals. And now he didn’t know how he had to feel anymore: several of his neighbors killed with their families, some kidnapped, …
Ongoing violence (from both sides) can only result in the ‘normies’ radicalising.
Indeed. It’s hard to make a clear assumption on how Israel’s geopolitical agenda plays out, and your assumption maybe more correct than mine.
The origin of the Palestinian - Israel conflict is of statehood and governmental control, not ethnicities. Arabs who have never called themselves Palestinians but have lived in the state of Israel since it’s founding have as much claim to the region as Palestinians themselves and are of the same ethnicity. In other words even if Israel remove all Palestinians from the regions they want, it will never be considered ethnic cleansing by the rest of the world, because Palestinians isn’t an ethnical identity, it’s a political identity.
I think the last part of what you said – about them not being an ethnicity – is unhelpful.
I don’t agree with the take, but I don’t want to get into a debate over semantics. I just want to try and get people thinking – from many different perspectives – about what is happening and what each of us need to do to stop it.
Millions of people are at risk of dying of deliberate starvation. Millions are being pushed off their land. The region is being destabilized, Jews and Muslims worldwide are facing increasing antisemitism due to a complex set of reasons, Israelis are facing a rapid erosion in civil liberties… and we need to say NO. We need to interrupt all of these.
We need to demand peace, we need to force from power leaders who pursue agendas designed to escalate conflicts because its in their interests, we need to halt the logistics operations that allow for people to be caged and starved and blown up and tortured…
I think you and I may disagree about a whole bunch of terms to apply, but I just want to find the common ground. Particularly among liberal zionists, because it’s breaking my heart to see so many liberal zionists freezing up at a moment of crisis and allowing the religious zionist movement to take charge. It doesn’t have to be that way, we all just need to find courage and act.
I’m not looking to cast blame or pick fights. As long as you and anyone else isn’t actively supporting population transfers or a single Jewish state displacing Palestinians from river to sea, I just want to find where we agree – stop the war, stop the march of global fascism in Israel, America, and every where else – and get to work.
Yeah just like when they said they were going to starve and terror bomb everyone in Gaza and then did exactly that.