I mean, I would argue that today that some Linux experiences are smoother out of the box experience than windows. I did a highend gaming rig with windows set up for a neighbor who wanted to be able to do a racing sims (chair, wheel, pedals, the whole shebang). I couldn’t believe how difficult it all ended up being. All on the part of windows and what it has become as an OS. Like jaw dropping difficult.
Windows is actively adding friction to their experience, so Linux just needs to do better than that. And the friction points with Linux remaining are frankly, minor and solvable. The issues for me always seem to be WiFi/ Bluetooth/ and audio drivers. The second big friction point is software instillation. I don’t want to jump in on the flatpack drama, but being able to install software and have it ‘just work’ is the other issue with Linux. Oldschool windows got this completely right. You download an exe, double click, press yes a bunch of times, and now you have software that works.
Those two pain points, which I think will be solved in 2-5 years in some version of desktop Linux (and even more likely to be solved with increased adoption), and Linux could easily replace windows as the dominant desktop operating system. Great progress in all of this has been made. We’re very close.
So I’ll swap out ‘frictionless’ for ‘less friction than the competitive equivalent’. It just needs to be a bit better. We’re very close. A couple more years, a bit more adoption, and it wont even be a question. In some cases, the Linux experience is less friction than windows. In a few years, I hope that most Linux experiences will be less friction than windows. Once that’s the case, the whole paradigm shifts.
Okay, that I can agree with. Thanks for elaborating. Quick follow up question: what flatpak drama? I know of snap and their proprietary bs and recent scamware issues but besides the fact that flatpak can push proprietary software from a vendor I dont know of any issues.
And I think the point that’s being made “that these are universal package mangers, except that they are anything but that”.
I don’t agree with the video whatsover, but I’m posting it as an example of what I consider the issue to be.
Its a classic example of:
If I want a naive user to be able to have software ‘just work’, this has to be resolved. Its just too frustrating for any one not fully committed to slog through.
Okayyyy, got it. So the standard argument against progression. Make the system work better for consumers but dont put stuff in that actually does that. Like we use this in german „wash me but dont make me wet“. Flatpak especially works well now. The fact that you cant actually break dependencies (no idea if that has been the case) now is also very cool. Its also much easier for the dev to make the app and package it once instead for each distro - you guessed it - to make it more consumer friendly.
The flatpak hate especially feels like thinly veiled elitism. I get that it should not be proprietary so fuck snap but flatpak is okay in my book. :)
The flatpak hate especially feels like thinly veiled elitism. I get that it should not be proprietary so fuck snap but flatpak is okay in my book. :)
I agree, and for me its irrelevant because I will figure out how to make any software I need to use work. Flatpak, snap, aptget, straight from github, whatever, I don’t mind. I’ll figure it out.
But for some one who has very little patience for figuring it out, I really need a solution that for them ‘just works’.
That pretty much is flatpak (snap too but proprietary sets bad precedent). Install it, have shop, click install, it works. Used to be more of a hassle from what I hear but its easy now.
The issue for example with ubuntu is that they push snap so hard that flatpak integration seems kinda broken. If you use discover on kde/debian its like flatpak is just part of the ui. I‘m gonna make a video in a couple of days just to show how easy it is. Updates too.
The issue for example with ubuntu is that they push snap so hard that flatpak integration seems kinda broken. If you use discover on kde/debian its like flatpak is just part of the ui. I‘m gonna make a video in a couple of days just to show how easy it is. Updates too.
Will try to remember. You can follow me on peertube (from mastodon, no idea if lemmy works yet) if you dont want to miss it. https://peertube.giftedmc.com
Edit: I checked. You can actually follow a peertube account from lemmy. Should work if you put https://peertube.giftedmc.com/c/haui777 in your searchbar. Takes a bit until it federates though.
I mean, I would argue that today that some Linux experiences are smoother out of the box experience than windows. I did a highend gaming rig with windows set up for a neighbor who wanted to be able to do a racing sims (chair, wheel, pedals, the whole shebang). I couldn’t believe how difficult it all ended up being. All on the part of windows and what it has become as an OS. Like jaw dropping difficult.
Windows is actively adding friction to their experience, so Linux just needs to do better than that. And the friction points with Linux remaining are frankly, minor and solvable. The issues for me always seem to be WiFi/ Bluetooth/ and audio drivers. The second big friction point is software instillation. I don’t want to jump in on the flatpack drama, but being able to install software and have it ‘just work’ is the other issue with Linux. Oldschool windows got this completely right. You download an exe, double click, press yes a bunch of times, and now you have software that works.
Those two pain points, which I think will be solved in 2-5 years in some version of desktop Linux (and even more likely to be solved with increased adoption), and Linux could easily replace windows as the dominant desktop operating system. Great progress in all of this has been made. We’re very close.
So I’ll swap out ‘frictionless’ for ‘less friction than the competitive equivalent’. It just needs to be a bit better. We’re very close. A couple more years, a bit more adoption, and it wont even be a question. In some cases, the Linux experience is less friction than windows. In a few years, I hope that most Linux experiences will be less friction than windows. Once that’s the case, the whole paradigm shifts.
Okay, that I can agree with. Thanks for elaborating. Quick follow up question: what flatpak drama? I know of snap and their proprietary bs and recent scamware issues but besides the fact that flatpak can push proprietary software from a vendor I dont know of any issues.
Since you are asking for the drama, here is an example of discussion around them.
And I think the point that’s being made “that these are universal package mangers, except that they are anything but that”.
I don’t agree with the video whatsover, but I’m posting it as an example of what I consider the issue to be.
Its a classic example of:
If I want a naive user to be able to have software ‘just work’, this has to be resolved. Its just too frustrating for any one not fully committed to slog through.
Okayyyy, got it. So the standard argument against progression. Make the system work better for consumers but dont put stuff in that actually does that. Like we use this in german „wash me but dont make me wet“. Flatpak especially works well now. The fact that you cant actually break dependencies (no idea if that has been the case) now is also very cool. Its also much easier for the dev to make the app and package it once instead for each distro - you guessed it - to make it more consumer friendly.
The flatpak hate especially feels like thinly veiled elitism. I get that it should not be proprietary so fuck snap but flatpak is okay in my book. :)
I agree, and for me its irrelevant because I will figure out how to make any software I need to use work. Flatpak, snap, aptget, straight from github, whatever, I don’t mind. I’ll figure it out.
But for some one who has very little patience for figuring it out, I really need a solution that for them ‘just works’.
That pretty much is flatpak (snap too but proprietary sets bad precedent). Install it, have shop, click install, it works. Used to be more of a hassle from what I hear but its easy now.
The issue for example with ubuntu is that they push snap so hard that flatpak integration seems kinda broken. If you use discover on kde/debian its like flatpak is just part of the ui. I‘m gonna make a video in a couple of days just to show how easy it is. Updates too.
Oh i’d love to see it please share when you do.
Will try to remember. You can follow me on peertube (from mastodon, no idea if lemmy works yet) if you dont want to miss it. https://peertube.giftedmc.com
Edit: I checked. You can actually follow a peertube account from lemmy. Should work if you put https://peertube.giftedmc.com/c/haui777 in your searchbar. Takes a bit until it federates though.