The “uncommitted” campaign said it hoped to get 10,000 votes in the Michigan primary. Early returns indicated there might ultimately be more than 150,000 “uncommitted” votes.
So freaking stupid. You don’t like the way Biden is handling Gaza, so you turn to the man who * checks notes * wants to ban Muslims from entering America and moved the US embassy to Jerusalem against Palestinian wishes? You think he will do a better job for Gaza? He will cheerlead a genocide.
This campaign is about the primaries, not the general election. They have not told anyone to vote for Trump.
The Dems took voters for granted in 2016 and got what they deserved. They should be thanking this campaign but shooting the messenger is so much easier, so they won’t.
Any combination of those, and including things like vote manipulation with lots of sock accounts, as well as the posting of links that advance their agenda. Wouldn’t take much at all. You obviously need to make it look natural, it’s not every comment or post on lemmy that gets hundreds of upvotes or downvotes. I’d wager you can significant alter lemmy feeds with like thirty co ordonated accounts so long as you stay on new or hot. The trickier part would be not using the same 30 accounts every time, but even still those numbers are peanuts compared to what troll farms and botters do on other social networks. Compared to that you could probably just loose a few interns on the whole of the fediverse if astro turfing was your goal.
Who the hell supports genocide? If we don’t vote for status quo Joe we get Mango Mussolini who’s not only bad for the us he’s bad for the world… He literally only cares about himself
You’re right! Sorry, I’ll throw my vote away vote green and accomplish absofuckinglutley nothing but at least I can pat myself on the back and Stay Pure™ while the country burns around me!
You forgot to quote the bit about this being the primaries, not the general.
And you’re going to have to explain how Clinton was a desperate underdog in 2016 if you want to imply that actually, she did well.
“For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin.” – Chuck Schumer 2016
It depends entirely on whether the Dems are capable of responding to criticism or whether they do their usual la la la can’t hear you.
The problem with obediently voting for the least worst option is that you end up with no good options. Being marginally better than a fascist is not enough. They need turnout and if they want turnout they need to stop fucking over their voters.
Fuck, no. But what the fuck else should we do? Let Trump fuck us over just because Biden sucks? I do not like Biden, either, but I DETEST Trump with every fiber of my being.
i think i saw it was more like 1/500 so it’s more like 0.2%. at least that’s what the betting odds called for stein and west, who are the only two candidates i see that deserve my vote.
Speaking to The Intercept in 2017, she said the notion that it was an “intimate roundtable” was “mythology,” and that Putin and his associates “weren’t at the table for very long.” Stein said that “nobody introduced anybody to anybody” and that she “didn’t hear any words exchanged between English speakers and Russians” due to the lack of a translator.
Voters are well aware what a monster Trump is. You’re being disingenuous or dense by continuing to screech about the orange dotard.
The DNC is refusing to hold primaries in good faith. This is literally the last best option to show our utter disdain for Biden’s piss poor policy positions, because they have removed democratic choice as an option.
Don’t like it? Be a better leader. Start by demanding a ceasefire and restoring full funding for UN humanitarian aid in Gaza. Blaming voters for Biden’s failures is a surefire strategy to lose in November.
Ka’Marr Coleman-Byrd, a 27-year-old tax consultant who voted for Biden in 2020, says he’ll make up his mind closer to November based on where things stand with issues like foreign aid, race relations and student loans.
“Growing up, I feel like I voted Democrat just because it just seemed like the thing to do,” he said. “I’d say now … I’m sort of more into politics and seeing exactly what both parties present, so it’s not just like a blind vote in a sense.”
Just 50% of Black adults nationally approve of Biden, down from 86% in July 2021, according to a December AP-NORC poll. And there are signs that Black Michiganders’ support for Biden — which Democratic strategists see as key to his reelection — is waning.
A Howard University Initiative on Public Opinion poll released this month found that 91% of Black voters in Michigan plan to vote in the general election. When asked who they would vote for if that were today, 49% of respondents said Biden and 26% said Trump.
Considering Trump got only like 10% of the black vote in 2020, this is a huge shift.
Yeah, people are so angry, so ready to screw themselves and go down a dark path to prove a point, so do you think that telling them they can’t even make that point in the primary is going to get them on board for the general? It’s absurdist, antidemocratic, nonsense.
And are domestic abusers malicious or just stupid? What about date rapists? There’s plenty of people out there who are inarguably terrible people. Do you think none of them vote?
Oh, sure there are many awful people that vote for Trump. But there are also many stupid people that vote for Trump. Even Trump voters are not a monolith.
Trump is obviously a monster, any non-MAGA is painfully aware of that fact.
Trump is also recognized, rightfully so, as a political outsider. He is decidedly not more of the same. We the people have been getting squeezed dry for over 50 years, as productivity has continued to rise and material living conditions have only gotten worse. Biden, on the other hand, is the literal embodiment of the status quo politician - for him and his rich corporate donors, things have been great. Biden wants that to continue, thus all he promises is that “nothing will fundamentally change.”
So again, even though it’s a desperate and misguided notion, stop blaming voters for their desperate actions. If you want Biden to galvanize more support, demand he do something to lead and meaningfully improve people’s lives.
You are demonstrably wrong. Trump is still going to get nearly half the vote. Potential Trump voters are not just the rabid nutters we associate with Trump rallies. They include millions of normal people who who can be swayed. You almost certainly live in a left-wing social and media bubble if you think Biden is guaranteed a victory in the general election.
Voting uncommitted in a primary isn’t going to help Trump. After election, after election, after election, where we’ve been desperately trying to tell angry, fed-up voters that the time to express that is in the primary, and they have to vote against the worst candidate in the general election, turning around and telling them now that they can’t even vote how they want in the goddamn primary absolutely will help Trump.
where we’ve been desperately trying to tell angry, fed-up voters that the time to express that is in the primary
When have we said that?
If that was said, I’m sure it was more about a Bernie v Biden issue. Certainly vote for who you want in the primary, but uncommitted isn’t a person.
The fact is, this looks awful in the media. The headlines are all about “Is Biden in trouble?”
The old expression holds true: Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line.” Democrats are starting to hate Biden and may stay home. Meanwhile, swing votes see Democrats turning in Biden and turn themselves to Trump.
This isn’t the general election. I’m in Michigan and all of the Uncommitted stuff I’ve seen has been “vote uncommitted in the primary to show your displeasure, then vote for the Dem in the general because the alternative is way worse.”
It’s frankly a gift to the Biden campaign. It’s a strong signal of displeasure with a clear reason for why they are displeased. Hopefully someone on his campaign team can convince him to change course here.
The point is that running against someone worse doesn’t give anyone a free pass to actively support crimes against humanity.
Just because we vastly prefer him over the other guy doesn’t mean we have to pretend that he can do no wrong and meekly accept that he’s complicit in some of the worst atrocities being committed in the world right now.
this isn’t being reported as pro-Gaza, but as anti-Biden.
Because the billionaire-owned MSM, like you, has an enormous pro-Biden bias and is married to the false dichotomy of “other guy worse means our guy blameless”
“Better than Trump” is far too low a bar for anyone of importance, much less one of the most powerful and influential human beings in the world.
Just because we vastly prefer him over the other guy doesn’t mean we have to pretend that he can do no wrong and meekly accept that he’s complicit in some of the worst atrocities being committed in the world right now.
Who says you can’t? I don’t like Biden, either. But making him look weak just pushes us toward another Trump term.
Because the billionaire-owned MSM, like you, has an enormous pro-Biden bias and is married to the false dichotomy of “other guy worse means our guy blameless”
Lol, do you think the media has a pro-Biden bias? Quite the opposite. Biden misspeaks about some foreign leader, and the media rushes to print “Is Biden too senile?” while Trump forgets his wife’s name and you get crickets from the MSM. The MSM regularly buries negative Trump stories while amplifying anything to make you question Biden. This reporting is proof of that. I do not get how you think reporting that this vote is anti-Biden is somehow pro-Biden.
“Better than Trump” is far too low a bar for anyone of importance, much less one of the most powerful and influential human beings in the world.
It is, but it is the only bar we have. Again, this is shaping up to be 2016 all over again. People don’t like the Dem, so they stay home and let Trump eke out a narrow victory.
What false dichotomy? Dichotomy might be the best definition for our 2 party system. We indeed have an actual dichotomy.
Yes, I’d rather have a different choice. There certainly isn’t a dichotomy of ideas. But when it comes down to it, Biden and Trump will be the only legitimate choices on the ballot.
The false dichotomy is that all mentions of either of them boil down to either “Trump bad so Biden good” or “Biden bad so Trump good”.
It’s lazy, it’s disingenuous and it destroys all hope of keeping elected officials from your own “team” accountable for their words, actions and lack of both.
About twenty years ago I made the hard decision to never vote for a self identifying neoliberal president. I made this decision after reading years of articles proving that neoliberal economic policies not only don’t work, but make the problems worse. I did vote for Obama so I guess it’s technically been less than 20 years. When the DNC decided and argued in court they are not beholden to voters, nor are they required to follow their own established rules, that’s what finally gave me the courage to stand by my conviction on this issue.
I vote every election, every year and every primary.
Thankfully I live in a state that was purple but has since gone blue. Biden will get our electoral points for my state I am hopeful. But I’m not going to bubble in either Biden nor Trump.
If you feel your decision is the answer to what you believe is the only important question, then vote for who you feel that you must. I do see your point. But I believe there are more important questions that I regularly ask myself and base who I vote for on that.
I didn’t vote for Biden or Trump in any primary or general. Doing the same thing this cycle. I don’t vote for lesser of two evils. If you don’t like that then you vote for the lesser genocidal maniac. Makes you kind of creepy in my opinion and I wouldn’t invite you over for dinner or anything, but you do you.
Mostly out of curiosity, what exactly makes Biden an evil in your mind? If it’s the middle east what, exactly do you want him to do? The President doesn’t possess the power to unilaterally declare war, all be can really do us shout at Israel to stop and strongly encourage Congress to do… Well anything at all.
What would make Biden a real evil, at least in my mind is if we had a functional legislative branch and he was vetoing every piece of aid they passed to those countries, or if he was overreaching with his executive orders to do things that blatantly belong to another branch of our government. Guess what Trump would do.
The only time the President really has much power is if they have a Congress that’s aligned with their goals, and in the current cycle everything Biden has tried to do has been shot down by one of the other two braches. I suspect though, that if Congress passed an aid package to Ukraine or Palestine, Biden would not obstruct.
If it’s because Bernie got shafted by the DNC and now we have Biden, I personally think given how our government works, Bernie can do way more good in the Senate than he could ever do as a president, and we need to load Congress up with as many people who idealistically align with him or at least, don’t conflict and are willing to actually run our government.
I literally just said I voted for him in 2020. I get that you want to paint everyone who opposes the genocide you support as some sort of trumper, but try paying even the slightest bit of attention.
So freaking stupid. You don’t like the way Biden is handling Gaza, so you turn to the man who * checks notes * wants to ban Muslims from entering America and moved the US embassy to Jerusalem against Palestinian wishes? You think he will do a better job for Gaza? He will cheerlead a genocide.
This campaign is about the primaries, not the general election. They have not told anyone to vote for Trump.
The Dems took voters for granted in 2016 and got what they deserved. They should be thanking this campaign but shooting the messenger is so much easier, so they won’t.
It’s funny to hear all the crybaby dnc sycophants who support genocide saying the same dumb talking points again and again.
I’m starting to think they are bots, because it would get boring just saying the same stupid shit over and over again.
You can directly say you’re voting for Biden in your comment, and they’ll still screech that you want Trump to win.
That’s ok, I regularly screech like a wild banshee lol. This is a silly anonymous online discussion forum.
But yea, the circles the blue no matter who keep running in are laughable.
Its an election year, I guarantee there is significant astro turfing going on in the fediverse. I’d stake my bank account on it.
Sincerely asking what do you mean by astroturfing? Bots? Paid commenters? Something else?
Any combination of those, and including things like vote manipulation with lots of sock accounts, as well as the posting of links that advance their agenda. Wouldn’t take much at all. You obviously need to make it look natural, it’s not every comment or post on lemmy that gets hundreds of upvotes or downvotes. I’d wager you can significant alter lemmy feeds with like thirty co ordonated accounts so long as you stay on new or hot. The trickier part would be not using the same 30 accounts every time, but even still those numbers are peanuts compared to what troll farms and botters do on other social networks. Compared to that you could probably just loose a few interns on the whole of the fediverse if astro turfing was your goal.
Biden is super awesome! (Just to see)
Lmfao, expirementing, smart. Ill abstain from voting to help continue it.
Who the hell supports genocide? If we don’t vote for status quo Joe we get Mango Mussolini who’s not only bad for the us he’s bad for the world… He literally only cares about himself
Joe Biden. That’s why 100,000 Michiganders just voted “uncommitted”.
Also Trump, but the only people who want him to win are Republicans.
Indeed, but the comment was aimed at “crybaby DNC sycophants” as in anyone who is voting for Biden was somehow for genocide.
I mean, that’s what you’re voting for
You’re right! Sorry, I’ll
throw my vote awayvote green and accomplish absofuckinglutley nothing but at least I can pat myself on the back and Stay Pure™ while the country burns around me!You can vote your conscious. That’s what these people are doing.
They will not vote for Biden unless he is against genocide in words and action.
People are taking a stand. They will not vote for a genocide supporter.
I’m convinced they’re bots, lots of telltale signs of GPT in the style of prose.
They told them not to vote for Biden, which is much the same.
65,853,514 voted for Clinton, over 2.8 million more than voted for Trump.
You forgot to quote the bit about this being the primaries, not the general.
And you’re going to have to explain how Clinton was a desperate underdog in 2016 if you want to imply that actually, she did well.
And they still haven’t learnt anything.
And you do not think those attitudes will carry over into the general?
It depends entirely on whether the Dems are capable of responding to criticism or whether they do their usual la la la can’t hear you.
The problem with obediently voting for the least worst option is that you end up with no good options. Being marginally better than a fascist is not enough. They need turnout and if they want turnout they need to stop fucking over their voters.
You act like Dems voters are a monolith.
And how is this going to generate another option?
I referred to a political party, not its voters.
And, wtf? Are you such an obedient voter that you do not care what they are offering as long as they’re wearing the right colour? Come the fuck on.
Fuck, no. But what the fuck else should we do? Let Trump fuck us over just because Biden sucks? I do not like Biden, either, but I DETEST Trump with every fiber of my being.
Quit the “both sides” bullshit.
no, it’s not. i expect to have at least 4 options on my ballot, possibly 5 if my donations to cornel west accomplish anything.
And I promise you, all but 2 of those options have a 0.0000% chance of winning. Like it or not, that is the system we have.
i think i saw it was more like 1/500 so it’s more like 0.2%. at least that’s what the betting odds called for stein and west, who are the only two candidates i see that deserve my vote.
Jill Stein, friend of Putin who Russians pushed for to help Trump?
And, no, those odds are way too high. Ross Perot was the last big 3rd party candidate, and he managed 18.9% of the vote. He got zero electoral votes.
from your first link
But why was she there in the first place?
your second link contains actual lies or facts that have changed since it’s publication.
I don’t think so. Stein is a Russian agents.
then you should take the bet.
What, bet $1,000 to win $0.50 that 3rd party candidates will lose?
Voters are well aware what a monster Trump is. You’re being disingenuous or dense by continuing to screech about the orange dotard.
The DNC is refusing to hold primaries in good faith. This is literally the last best option to show our utter disdain for Biden’s piss poor policy positions, because they have removed democratic choice as an option.
Don’t like it? Be a better leader. Start by demanding a ceasefire and restoring full funding for UN humanitarian aid in Gaza. Blaming voters for Biden’s failures is a surefire strategy to lose in November.
fixed that for you (see: 2016, 2020)
I don’t think so. Over 80 million voted for him in 2020. And support among those that supported Biden in 2020 in waning. Read this article and shudder: https://www.npr.org/2024/02/28/1234145544/2024-election-michigan-voters-disillusioned-biden-trump
Considering Trump got only like 10% of the black vote in 2020, this is a huge shift.
Yeah, people are so angry, so ready to screw themselves and go down a dark path to prove a point, so do you think that telling them they can’t even make that point in the primary is going to get them on board for the general? It’s absurdist, antidemocratic, nonsense.
What I think is people will say “wow, even a lot if Democrats wouldn’t vote for Biden, so I guess I should go Trump.”
They knew he was a monster. It’s why they voted for him. Never forget that the worst people you know vote and have social media.
There are more stupid voters than you think. Hanlon’s Razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
And are domestic abusers malicious or just stupid? What about date rapists? There’s plenty of people out there who are inarguably terrible people. Do you think none of them vote?
Oh, sure there are many awful people that vote for Trump. But there are also many stupid people that vote for Trump. Even Trump voters are not a monolith.
Trump is obviously a monster, any non-MAGA is painfully aware of that fact.
Trump is also recognized, rightfully so, as a political outsider. He is decidedly not more of the same. We the people have been getting squeezed dry for over 50 years, as productivity has continued to rise and material living conditions have only gotten worse. Biden, on the other hand, is the literal embodiment of the status quo politician - for him and his rich corporate donors, things have been great. Biden wants that to continue, thus all he promises is that “nothing will fundamentally change.”
So again, even though it’s a desperate and misguided notion, stop blaming voters for their desperate actions. If you want Biden to galvanize more support, demand he do something to lead and meaningfully improve people’s lives.
You are demonstrably wrong. Trump is still going to get nearly half the vote. Potential Trump voters are not just the rabid nutters we associate with Trump rallies. They include millions of normal people who who can be swayed. You almost certainly live in a left-wing social and media bubble if you think Biden is guaranteed a victory in the general election.
I think you may have responded to the wrong comment?
I think Biden is pretty much the only Dem who can lose to Trump in the general. Lots of polling data supports this theory as well.
It’s fine to vote against Biden in the primaries, as long as you hold your note and vote for him in the general to prevent a literal dictatorship.
Until people see this, get discouraged, and tap out.
Voting uncommitted in a primary isn’t going to help Trump. After election, after election, after election, where we’ve been desperately trying to tell angry, fed-up voters that the time to express that is in the primary, and they have to vote against the worst candidate in the general election, turning around and telling them now that they can’t even vote how they want in the goddamn primary absolutely will help Trump.
When have we said that?
If that was said, I’m sure it was more about a Bernie v Biden issue. Certainly vote for who you want in the primary, but uncommitted isn’t a person.
The fact is, this looks awful in the media. The headlines are all about “Is Biden in trouble?”
The old expression holds true: Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line.” Democrats are starting to hate Biden and may stay home. Meanwhile, swing votes see Democrats turning in Biden and turn themselves to Trump.
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Damn, I didn’t know Uncommitted was such a bad guy
It’s one less vote for Biden
Y’all forgot 2016 already?
This isn’t the general election. I’m in Michigan and all of the Uncommitted stuff I’ve seen has been “vote uncommitted in the primary to show your displeasure, then vote for the Dem in the general because the alternative is way worse.”
It’s frankly a gift to the Biden campaign. It’s a strong signal of displeasure with a clear reason for why they are displeased. Hopefully someone on his campaign team can convince him to change course here.
Considering they got our governor to say that voting uncommitted in a primary was going to help trump I doubt the campaign is looking to listen sadly.
I remember 2016 very well. They took their vote for granted and fucked themselves up. They still haven’t learnt anything from that.
This is a primary.
And you don’t think any of this sentiment will drift into the general?
You don’t think we should stop supporting genocide. There’s no reason for a question mark at the end of mine.
What an insulting and disgusting straw man. I do not support genocide, asshole.
Then stop trying to get people to stop opposing genocide.
Voting uncommitted doesn’t do that.
Damn, they should really have seem that one coming after 2016 shouldn’t they
Dems are going to lose the election so bad, but they will still try to blame the progressives lol.
Fuck off DNC
The DNC definitely forgot about 2016
And what was the point? At best, it’s being a a useful idiot for conservatives, as this isn’t being reported as pro-Gaza, but as anti-Biden.
The point is that running against someone worse doesn’t give anyone a free pass to actively support crimes against humanity.
Just because we vastly prefer him over the other guy doesn’t mean we have to pretend that he can do no wrong and meekly accept that he’s complicit in some of the worst atrocities being committed in the world right now.
Because the billionaire-owned MSM, like you, has an enormous pro-Biden bias and is married to the false dichotomy of “other guy worse means our guy blameless”
“Better than Trump” is far too low a bar for anyone of importance, much less one of the most powerful and influential human beings in the world.
Who says you can’t? I don’t like Biden, either. But making him look weak just pushes us toward another Trump term.
Lol, do you think the media has a pro-Biden bias? Quite the opposite. Biden misspeaks about some foreign leader, and the media rushes to print “Is Biden too senile?” while Trump forgets his wife’s name and you get crickets from the MSM. The MSM regularly buries negative Trump stories while amplifying anything to make you question Biden. This reporting is proof of that. I do not get how you think reporting that this vote is anti-Biden is somehow pro-Biden.
It is, but it is the only bar we have. Again, this is shaping up to be 2016 all over again. People don’t like the Dem, so they stay home and let Trump eke out a narrow victory.
So many fucking words to just reiterate the same false dichotomy and spout Trump-like false martyrdom claims 🤦
What false dichotomy? Dichotomy might be the best definition for our 2 party system. We indeed have an actual dichotomy.
Yes, I’d rather have a different choice. There certainly isn’t a dichotomy of ideas. But when it comes down to it, Biden and Trump will be the only legitimate choices on the ballot.
The false dichotomy is that all mentions of either of them boil down to either “Trump bad so Biden good” or “Biden bad so Trump good”.
It’s lazy, it’s disingenuous and it destroys all hope of keeping elected officials from your own “team” accountable for their words, actions and lack of both.
That is a straw man. We are not saying that at all.
Nah see I am playing 3-d chess. By not voting for Trump, it is the same as voting for Biden.
I learned that from all the democrats on lemmy.
It is a half vote for each, then,
Just ask yourself, would you rather 4 more years of Biden or Trump? That is the only important question.
I’ve already asked myself these questions.
About twenty years ago I made the hard decision to never vote for a self identifying neoliberal president. I made this decision after reading years of articles proving that neoliberal economic policies not only don’t work, but make the problems worse. I did vote for Obama so I guess it’s technically been less than 20 years. When the DNC decided and argued in court they are not beholden to voters, nor are they required to follow their own established rules, that’s what finally gave me the courage to stand by my conviction on this issue.
I vote every election, every year and every primary.
Thankfully I live in a state that was purple but has since gone blue. Biden will get our electoral points for my state I am hopeful. But I’m not going to bubble in either Biden nor Trump.
If you feel your decision is the answer to what you believe is the only important question, then vote for who you feel that you must. I do see your point. But I believe there are more important questions that I regularly ask myself and base who I vote for on that.
If Trump is elected Gaza will be absorbed into Israel.
Without the Palestinians
I can understand not wanting Biden, but they need to understand if you don’t want Biden then you get Trump.
I didn’t vote for Biden or Trump in any primary or general. Doing the same thing this cycle. I don’t vote for lesser of two evils. If you don’t like that then you vote for the lesser genocidal maniac. Makes you kind of creepy in my opinion and I wouldn’t invite you over for dinner or anything, but you do you.
Mostly out of curiosity, what exactly makes Biden an evil in your mind? If it’s the middle east what, exactly do you want him to do? The President doesn’t possess the power to unilaterally declare war, all be can really do us shout at Israel to stop and strongly encourage Congress to do… Well anything at all.
What would make Biden a real evil, at least in my mind is if we had a functional legislative branch and he was vetoing every piece of aid they passed to those countries, or if he was overreaching with his executive orders to do things that blatantly belong to another branch of our government. Guess what Trump would do.
The only time the President really has much power is if they have a Congress that’s aligned with their goals, and in the current cycle everything Biden has tried to do has been shot down by one of the other two braches. I suspect though, that if Congress passed an aid package to Ukraine or Palestine, Biden would not obstruct.
If it’s because Bernie got shafted by the DNC and now we have Biden, I personally think given how our government works, Bernie can do way more good in the Senate than he could ever do as a president, and we need to load Congress up with as many people who idealistically align with him or at least, don’t conflict and are willing to actually run our government.
I didn’t want Biden in 2020. Voted for him anyway. Didn’t get Trump.
It’s almost as if republicans show up to vote and democrats don’t and you saw the result of when they do.
I literally just said I voted for him in 2020. I get that you want to paint everyone who opposes the genocide you support as some sort of trumper, but try paying even the slightest bit of attention.
I don’t support genocide, nor do I think we should support any military run by religious zealots. Let them both rot.